Y-DNA haplogroups of Greeks by region of origin

If you call E1b1b Afro-Asiatic you are definetely confused because the sub-clades we find in Greece are either European (E1b1b1a2) or Levantine (E1b1b1a3 + E1b1b1c) while Greeks (native or Anatolian) score 0% African in Autosomal percentages. You should get more information about sub-clades of haplogroups...
How come that other native Europeans have MUCH less E1b1b??? I know that even Adolf Hitler was E1b.. something, but hey E1b.. is somehow linked with Afro-Asiatic folks...
 
Well, I understand where he is coming from, and it doesn't seem like flat bias to me. Those Greeks who can trace their ancestry back to what is now Turkey he considers to be in a similar situation as me... I'm an American, but my Y-line would not be useful for a study of Native Americans, it would be useful (if anything) in a study of historic Swiss populations, because my Y-line comes from Switzerland. Similarly, Maciamo wants to remove Anatolian Greeks from his sample pool of those native to the land encompassed by modern Greece.

I think there's value in both your methods and Maciamo's methods. I think the difference is that you're doing a summary of "Greeks," and he is doing a summary of "Greece."
Exactly! Those Anatolian Kurds live in their homeland (east Anatolia), while those 'Anatolian' Greeks left their homeland and migrated into Europe (Greece).

Maybe he considers Turkey as Greece ... :LOL:
 
Btw, Greeks from Anatolia are less 'Afro-Asiatic' than native Greeks in Greece. Anatolian Greeks lived much more inland in Anatolia and had less contact with the Semites from Levant (Lebanon) and Egyptians...

are you sure?
what makes believe that levantines are semitic?

In fact anatolian Greeks are more closely to Levantines and more local to minor asia than kurds,

they share a j2a which exist only in them,
 
Well, I understand where he is coming from, and it doesn't seem like flat bias to me. Those Greeks who can trace their ancestry back to what is now Turkey he considers to be in a similar situation as me... I'm an American, but my Y-line would not be useful for a study of Native Americans, it would be useful (if anything) in a study of historic Swiss populations, because my Y-line comes from Switzerland. Similarly, Maciamo wants to remove Anatolian Greeks from his sample pool of those native to the land encompassed by modern Greece.

I think there's value in both your methods and Maciamo's methods. I think the difference is that you're doing a summary of "Greeks," and he is doing a summary of "Greece."
Would you classify Ashkenazi Jews under Poland or Germany? And where did Maciamo ever claimed that he tries to identify native ancestry so he uses his samples this way? If he did so he should have a Native Anatolian category not a Turkish one, while he should reject those samples from Greece who might have distant Albanian or Slavic ancestry but he doesn't. He only does it for Greeks from Anatolia that's what I'm saying.
BTW the your case is different than Anatolian Greeks. If you were of Amerindian ancestry and had emigrated to Switzerland but returned to your homeland and your DNA was similar with other Amerindians then you should be clasified under Amerindians not Swiss (place Greek instead of Amerindian and Turk in place of Swiss and you've got the right eqivelant...
 
are you sure?
what makes believe that levantines are semitic?

In fact anatolian Greeks are more closely to Levantines and more local to minor asia than kurds,

they share a j2a which exist only in them,


Hebrew and Aramaic are originally from the Levant. These are Semitic languages, just a suggestion?

I know that Greeks are more related to Afroasiatic Levantines and northern Africans (egyptians) than to the Iranic Kurds. I do 100% agree with you. Thank you for stressing this out...
 
Hebrew and Aramaic are originally from the Levant. These are Semitic languages, just a suggestion?

I know that Greeks are more related to Afroasiatic Levantines and northern Africans (egyptians) than to the Iranic Kurds. I do 100% agree with you. Thank you for stressing this out...
Do you feel superior from the ancient Egyptians and Levantines (Phoenicians & Jews) who you asoume contributed their genes to ancient Greeks and they to us? Do you feel superior from Greeks because you think that you are a pure Iranic?
 
Do you feel superior from the ancient Egyptians and Levantines (Phoenicians & Jews) who you asoume contributed their genes to ancient Greeks and they to us? Do you feel superior from Greeks because you think that you are a pure Iranic?
No, because Kurds have also some Afro-Asiatic genes (j1 and e haplogroups) from the Levant (Jewish & Babylonian-Akkadian-Assyrian) in them too. Kurds don't deny it! And Kurds are not ashamed of it but are proud of it. Kurds don't try to change and rewrite their own history, like some other folks are trying to rewrite the human history…

Btw, Kurdish ancestors (Mittani royal house and Kassites nobility) had many connections with the ancient Egyptians too.

But you can't change the facts. Blue is blue, green is green, white is white, black is black and red is red...
 
Who is trying to rewrite human history? And who is ashamed of his Afro-Asiatic ancestry and tries to hide it?
 
Would you classify Ashkenazi Jews under Poland or Germany?

Well it depends on what you're trying to measure, doesn't it? Few Ashkenazi Jews can prove their patriline came from Israel; in fact, the Jewish DNA Project has a good sample of Ashkenazi Jews with typically Germanic haplogroups like I1. So, if what we want is the entire gene pool of those whose families lived in Germany at the beginning of a genealogical timeframe, then I would put the ones in Germany in the Germany sample to avoid bias. But of course I would never put in an ethnic Jew if the intent is to find out the genetics of ethnic Germans. Similarly, you seem to be interested in ethnic Greeks... if so, your methods are appropriate. In fact, your numbers may be more useful for understanding the historic movements of people. But there is value in both, as long as we're clear with what we're doing.

And where did Maciamo ever claimed that he tries to identify native ancestry so he uses his samples this way? If he did so he should have a Native Anatolian category not a Turkish one, while he should reject those samples from Greece who might have distant Albanian or Slavic ancestry but he doesn't. He only does it for Greeks from Anatolia that's what I'm saying.

I guess I should be careful to avoid "speaking for" Maciamo, that's just the impression I got from him, and how I think about things. But I think he's doing things based mostly on people whose families are from modern countries within a genealogical timeframe (except in special cases like Kurds), in which case he seems consistent. He can correct me if I'm wrong.

BTW the your case is different than Anatolian Greeks. If you were of Amerindian ancestry and had emigrated to Switzerland but returned to your homeland and your DNA was similar with other Amerindians then you should be clasified under Amerindians not Swiss (place Greek instead of Amerindian and Turk in place of Swiss and you've got the right eqivelant...

OK you got me there, I'd have to be in the situation you describe to be perfectly analogous.
 
Well it depends on what you're trying to measure, doesn't it? Few Ashkenazi Jews can prove their patriline came from Israel; in fact, the Jewish DNA Project has a good sample of Ashkenazi Jews with typically Germanic haplogroups like I1. So, if what we want is the entire gene pool of those whose families lived in Germany at the beginning of a genealogical timeframe, then I would put the ones in Germany in the Germany sample to avoid bias. But of course I would never put in an ethnic Jew if the intent is to find out the genetics of ethnic Germans. Similarly, you seem to be interested in ethnic Greeks... if so, your methods are appropriate. In fact, your numbers may be more useful for understanding the historic movements of people. But there is value in both, as long as we're clear with what we're doing.
I have allready explained that the case of Anatolian Greeks is even more special than Kurds...because they now live in their original homeland (yes I'm of this crazy folks who believe that modern Greeks have at least a fair amount of ancient Greek DNA, which offcourse doesnt exclude forreign input) and their Y-DNA appears to be almost a perfect mainstream Greek example...in fact Ionian Greeks and those from the Aegean islands might be the purest of Greeks since Ionians definetely didn't mix with Turks (no Central or East Asian haplogroups detected) and Albanian or Slavic influence in Ionia is zero...allthough some native Anatolian ancestry can't be ruled out.
 
I have allready explained that the case of Anatolian Greeks is even more special than Kurds...because they now live in their original homeland (yes I'm of this crazy folks who believe that modern Greeks have at least a fair amount of ancient Greek DNA, which offcourse doesnt exclude forreign input) and their Y-DNA appears to be almost a perfect mainstream Greek example...in fact Ionian Greeks and those from the Aegean islands might be the purest of Greeks since Ionians definetely didn't mix with Turks (no Central or East Asian haplogroups detected) and Albanian or Slavic influence in Ionia is zero...allthough some native Anatolian ancestry can't be ruled out.


and that could be of Vrygian most which are considered to have relativity,
 
My fathers side can trace their ancestry to Smyrna in Ionia, and I would take it as a big insult if I was classified as a turk.
 
OK you got me there, I'd have to be in the situation you describe to be perfectly analogous.
I could also have said :
Since your ancestors emigrated to USA from Switzerland (like Ionian Greeks emigrated to Anatolia from Greece) and your Y-DNA appears closer to Swiss than Native Americans (like the Y-DNA of Ionians is closer to Greeks than Turks) then you should be classified under Swiss not Native American...
 
I have allready explained that the case of Anatolian Greeks is even more special than Kurds...because they now live in their original homeland (yes I'm of this crazy folks who believe that modern Greeks have at least a fair amount of ancient Greek DNA, which offcourse doesnt exclude forreign input) and their Y-DNA appears to be almost a perfect mainstream Greek example...in fact Ionian Greeks and those from the Aegean islands might be the purest of Greeks since Ionians definetely didn't mix with Turks (no Central or East Asian haplogroups detected) and Albanian or Slavic influence in Ionia is zero...allthough some native Anatolian ancestry can't be ruled out.

I think modern Greeks have quite a lot of ancient Greek DNA, and are certainly the ethnic group with the most ancient Greek DNA as a percentage. Without looking, I would guess the Aegean Greeks to have the highest percentage within the subgroups, as you suggest. And I wouldn't doubt minimal Anatolian input into Ionians, especially with the trends you describe... have you separated the subclades of R1b among Ionians like you did with Cretans earlier?
 
My fathers side can trace their ancestry to Smyrna in Ionia, and I would take it as a big insult if I was classified as a turk.
I'm of completely Anatolian ancestry [my father was of Pontic Greek origin from Amissos/Samsun & Sevasteia/Sivas (Sevasteia could be classified as Cappadocian Pontus), while my mother origins from Bithynia (near Nicomedia/Iznik)...
So I may have Phrygian ancestry too...
 
I think modern Greeks have quite a lot of ancient Greek DNA, and are certainly the ethnic group with the most ancient Greek DNA as a percentage. Without looking, I would guess the Aegean Greeks to have the highest percentage within the subgroups, as you suggest. And I wouldn't doubt minimal Anatolian input into Ionians, especially with the trends you describe... have you separated the subclades of R1b among Ionians like you did with Cretans earlier?
No but I read in Dieneke's site that they resemble Balkan and Anatolian sub-clades of R1b (most of it being L23 I think allthough there could be older M269 too)...this sample was not used in the big meta-analysis of R1b haplogroup that I used for Greeks and Cretans so we don't know if L11 is present (but the high amount of I1 and I2a2/ex-I2b1 might give as a clue that it is present at least in similar quantity with other Greeks.
 
Well, I understand where he is coming from, and it doesn't seem like flat bias to me. Those Greeks who can trace their ancestry back to what is now Turkey he considers to be in a similar situation as me... I'm an American, but my Y-line would not be useful for a study of Native Americans, it would be useful (if anything) in a study of historic Swiss populations, because my Y-line comes from Switzerland. Similarly, Maciamo wants to remove Anatolian Greeks from his sample pool of those native to the land encompassed by modern Greece.

I think there's value in both your methods and Maciamo's methods. I think the difference is that you're doing a summary of "Greeks," and he is doing a summary of "Greece."


Hmmm

ok Sparkey 1 example question

at least 3-6 million Greeks left Turkey (or died, slained etc) from 1914 times mostly in 1922 -1923 and 1953-4 (from Polis)
majority came to Greece, many of them to ex Ussr, but return back to greece after 78 and then
but at least 1 500 000 went to Usa and Australia,
if some of Them ask a gennetic and proves to be from Smyrna, what you answer him?
Turkish or Greek?

the cases of Elia Kazan in Movie America-America are millions, if a grandson wants to find roots what you answer him?

besides when we search for greeks how we will know the exact, Example PONTIC greeks are connected with Miletus, some of them might went to India with Alexander, do we exclude them in search for Miletian Dna in search of Pakistan or Afgan mountains?
I agree with Macciamo in case of origin to specify origin,
They Are Minor Asian, But what are they Turks?
we are giving Greek Dna to Turks?
souldn't we connect them with Greek?
I mean 1 sum of Greek as it was in time of search, and 1 sum of total Greeks, including the Ussr Greeks that moved,
The Georgian Ossetian greeks that moved, the Ucraine Greeks that Moved, The Smyrna greeks, the Pontic Greeks, The Thracian Greeks, In Fact that is another story, a population of >150 000 exchanged with Bulgaria and Fyrom, and 200 000 with Turksih from Con/polis and last The Alexandreian Greeks?
these people now live in Greece,
so a sum of it should help reconsider the Greek Dna and %,

I mean 2 tools, 1 the one we have now, and 1 of migrations-refuggees ,
that could help the ones who left abroad to find their gennetic, infact could give more clear vision of clear Y-Dna population of Both
 
My fathers side can trace their ancestry to Smyrna in Ionia, and I would take it as a big insult if I was classified as a turk.

Now we have a problem. Are the Turks lesser human beings than Greeks?:confused:
 

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