Illyria

and I answer you,

don't believe much youtube,
better search facts history gennetics archaiology, and not youtube.

in youtube people try to input you data, maybe are correct maybe wrong, but do not believe before you check the source, and croos it with other data.

The main stupidity in these videos is the wrong coonection of a data,
IT IS LIKE
PNEUMONS ARE vital INSTRUMENTS
GUITAR IS musical INSTRUMENT
SO PNEUMONS ARE GUITARS


That is youtube philosophy


Coal is Carbon
Diamond is Carbon
so Coal = Diamond

so I sell Coal as Diamond
 
zanipolo said:
In regards to G in sardinia, if its type G2a4 then its only from the 1920's forced migration of 72000 ( in 2 years) of NEItalians and istrians by mussolini
Click to expand...

As I read recently, some new data showed Corsicans have 21,5 % of G. Sicilians also have elevated G.
Was Corsica also settled by Mussolini? If you have some reading material on this please let me know.

Were these 72000 all men of productive age? What haplogroups were most common in Istrians and North Italians. I couldn't find anything in Sardinian sites about this. What was the attitude towards newcomers in Sardinia?
It would be funny if scientists who made this data failed to test indigenous population of Sardinia but rather newcomers from twenties.

Anyhow,
You probably have data for North east Italians and Istrians. If you do, please link me.
 
Dalmat said:
"Interesting that we always had a saying: "push the Serbs back over the Drin river!" LOL"


"BTW, Dalmatians are pure Croats, because from regions of Dalmatia and Herzegovina, Croat name and rule spread northwards into Panonia, eventually calling it Panonian Croatia."
Click to expand...


Exuse me?


Dalmatians are Croats? According to who? You? ( Genetically speaking )

According to the I genetic map the highest I2a1b is in Bosnia and Dalmatia. Dalmatians thanks to their 50+ I2a1b % are genetically closer to the Catholic & Muslim Bosnians then to the Croatians.

If we take religions aside, Catholics and Muslims of Bosnia and Dalmatia are infact same pre-Slavic people while on the other the Croatians ( without Dalmatia) are a mix of Slavic Croats who invade Balkans in the 6-8 century and the pre-Slavic population.

So your claim that Dalmatians are Croats are definitely incorrect. Bosnians and Dalmatians are genetically same people.
 
Bosniak said:
Exuse me?


Dalmatians are Croats? According to who? You? ( Genetically speaking )

According to the I genetic map the highest I2a1b is in Bosnia and Dalmatia. Dalmatians thanks to their 50+ I2a1b % are genetically closer to the Catholic & Muslim Bosnians then to the Croatians.

If we take religions aside, Catholics and Muslims of Bosnia and Dalmatia are infact same pre-Slavic people while on the other the Croatians ( without Dalmatia) are a mix of Slavic Croats who invade Balkans in the 6-8 century and the pre-Slavic population.

So your claim that Dalmatians are Croats are definitely incorrect. Bosnians and Dalmatians are genetically same people.
Click to expand...
I2a1b isn't preslavic in any way shape or form.
 
Yetos said:
Stupidity and provoke exist in world much before youtube,
sometimes enters also in schools

Do you believe this crup and Albanian propaganda?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wU87CAH95c&feature=related

In youtube the stupidity is big, there are people who earbn money writting extra-terestrial Historical stories,
Scientific fiction is not only for future, but from past also
Click to expand...
And propaganda about Skanderbeu? Arbaresh? or language albanian?
The propaganda is strong in all country of balkan.
 
Bosniak said:
What is your proof for that?
Click to expand...
The peak diversity of I2a1b is around Moldova, southern Ukraine and northern Romania. This succinctly proves that it indeed originates somewhere north of the Balkans - somewhere around Moldova, for precision's sake.

I2a1b too is less than 1% in Italy when it's well known how many Illyrian troops were recruited in Roman Empire.
 
Nowaday peak and a haplogroup's geographical origins are not at all the same thing!
 
Eldritch said:
The peak diversity of I2a1b is around Moldova, southern Ukraine and northern Romania. This succinctly proves that it indeed originates somewhere north of the Balkans - somewhere around Moldova, for precision's sake.

I2a1b too is less than 1% in Italy when it's well known how many Illyrian troops were recruited in Roman Empire.
Click to expand...


This is going to be intressting. So according to you what genetics did the Illyrians belong to?
 
Eldritch said:
Probably an R1b elite that subjugated aboriginal E-V13, J2b2 folks.
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That is a good theory because both Illyrians and Celts came from Hallstatt culture, the Celts lived in the west and Illyrians in the east. But your theory dosen't make any sense and that's because of the low R1b % within Bosnia which is only 4%. Even the E-V13(14,5%) and J2(6%) is heigher in Bosnia then the R1b and the E-V13 is heigher in Croatia then the R1b haplogroup is.

So according to you, the Illyrian (R1b) genes among Bosnians would be even lower then the Greek (J2) which definitely makes no sense.
 
Bosniak said:
That is a good theory because both Illyrians and Celts came from Hallstatt culture, the Celts lived in the west and Illyrians in the east. But your theory dosen't make any sense and that's because of the low R1b % within Bosnia which is only 4%. Even the E-V13(14,5%) and J2(6%) is heigher in Bosnia then the R1b and the E-V13 is heigher in Croatia then the R1b haplogroup is.

So according to you, the Illyrian (R1b) genes among Bosnians would be even lower then the Greek (J2) which definitely makes no sense.
Click to expand...
Bosniaks and Croatians are Slavs so i don't see anything strange there.

They're R1a + I2a1b as it's logical.
 
Bosniak said:
That is a good theory because both Illyrians and Celts came from Hallstatt culture, the Celts lived in the west and Illyrians in the east. But your theory dosen't make any sense and that's because of the low R1b % within Bosnia which is only 4%. Even the E-V13(14,5%) and J2(6%) is heigher in Bosnia then the R1b and the E-V13 is heigher in Croatia then the R1b haplogroup is.

So according to you, the Illyrian (R1b) genes among Bosnians would be even lower then the Greek (J2) which definitely makes no sense.
Click to expand...

There are a lot of subhaplogroups among both R1b and J2 (and E-V13 too).
For example predominant R1b haplogroup among Celts in central Europe was R1b-U152. And in Balkans there is R1b-L23 or even some older R1b.
J2 which makes majority in Greece is J2a, and the one which makes majority in western Balkans is J2b.

I would not agree about Illyrian R1b elite, but that is less important. More important is that greater number of people are now supporting opinion that I2a1b-Din is not pre-Slavic, than they were couple of years ago.

Related to this, one important thing which happened recently is a discovery of the closest older cousin of I2a1b-Din in Poland. Varieties of I2a1b-Din found in Balkans are generally considered younger than those on the North (or Northeast). So I hope it is easy to understand, that Poland discovery is also in favor of I2a1b-Din Slavic connection.
 
to make things more easy,

modern Historians name Illyrians the Pannoni basin Celtic culture tribes,
but it is not according History,

Illyrian was a mix of that Celtic Branch + minor Asian population (Akkado-cypriots+Pelasgians)
Illyricum is another story,

As for Slavic expansions at balkans it is true that I2b1 is a good indicator marker,
at least from what I discused, read, and learned in the forum,

the other is the linguistic part,
 
Eldritch said:
Bosniaks and Croatians are Slavs so i don't see anything strange there.

They're R1a + I2a1b as it's logical.
Click to expand...

I do, because if the Illyrian genes would be R1b then logically it would be the second highest genetic among Bosnians. But it isn't, it barely exist in Bosnia.
What doesn't make any sense is how could J2 and E-V13 (which is aboriginal) higher then the Illyrian genes when we know that the Illyrians were the dominant group of people for about 1300 years before the fall of the Roman empire.

The E-V13 genetic is more then twice higher then the "Illyrian" R1b which doesn't make any sense.
 
Bosniak said:
I do, because if the Illyrian genes would be R1b then logically it would be the second highest genetic among Bosnians. But it isn't, it barely exist in Bosnia.
What doesn't make any sense is how could J2 and E-V13 (which is aboriginal) higher then the Illyrian genes when we know that the Illyrians were the dominant group of people for about 1300 years before the fall of the Roman empire.

The E-V13 genetic is more then twice higher then the "Illyrian" R1b which doesn't make any sense.
Click to expand...
Ever heard of the elite dominance model? A small group of people rule upon inhabitants (Illyrians were Indo-Europeans)

Well Illyrian genes have survived under the form of indigineous Balkan E-V13 in Bosnia.
 
Eldritch said:
Ever heard of the elite dominance model? A small group of people rule upon inhabitants (Illyrians were Indo-Europeans)

Well Illyrian genes have survived under the form of indigineous Balkan E-V13 in Bosnia.
Click to expand...

No, not the one you must be thinking on.

Am not sure if I did understood you. What do you mean "Illyrians genes survived under the form of E-V13" ? Do you mean that the Illyrian genes are E-v13?
 
Bosniak said:
No, not the one you must be thinking on.

Am not sure if I did understood you. What do you mean "Illyrians genes survived under the form of E-V13" ? Do you mean that the Illyrian genes are E-v13?
Click to expand...
Yes E-V13 were illyrianized from R1b conquerors.
 
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