The Albanian language

[julia90]

Albanian language's sound is strange, what i find strange is that they don't pronunce r, like vibrant r, they pronounce it like in english.. infact some months ago i was in the autobus, which is full with albanians, i've never took notice of their language sound, so at first i thought, they must be american or something who talks strange or in dialect, than when i saw them i understood it was albanian.

the language is fashinating.. also i want to know if messapian has similarities with albanian

es of messapian:
klauhi ZisDekias ArtahiasThautouri andirahhodaus apistathi vinaihi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messapian_language

 

[Endri]

Albanian language's sound is strange, what i find strange is that they don't pronunce r, like vibrant r, they pronounce it like in english.. infact some months ago i was in the autobus, which is full with albanians, i've never took notice of their language sound, so at first i thought, they must be american or something who talks strange or in dialect, than when i saw them i understood it was albanian.

What?

We pronounce /r/ the same as italians, americans, british ect. I've never noticed any diff between the albanian /r/ and the italian /r/ in pronunciation. Maybe what you think is the letter/sound /r/ was the albanian /rr/.

the language is fashinating.. also i want to know if messapian has similarities with albanian

es of messapian:
klauhi ZisDekias ArtahiasThautouri andirahhodaus apistathi vinaihi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messapian_language

Actually, to me that looks like greek -.-

 

[LeBrok]

You must be kidding me, Italian R is very different than English.

 

[Endri]

You must be kidding me, Italian R is very different than English.

Nope. Idk how you pronounce them but their the same to me and same as the albanian /r/.

A video or audio comparison would help in this case more than words.

 

[Hal Fao]

Hyll - is old albanian for Yll - Star
Hyj - is plural for old albanian Hyll
Hyjni - are those who are risen to the stars, those who have earned their stars

Zot - masculine
Zoj(ë) - femininine
Both nowdays have the meaning of the masters (of the house, of ther art, for e.g.) but at the same time Zot is Master of the universe, but not necesseraly the only one.

Continuing with Zot:
Zog - is bird
Zo(g)jt - is plural
So, the link with the bird can be found in this word. Thot was depicted with the bird head, the one who brought the knowledge (DI - DIJE in Albanian) and writting. In Albanian the "DI" (to know) appears in all the words that have to do with the enlightment, knowledge and light.

Perëndi - is a feminine form of divinety, and it could very well mean the beauty (e Bukura e Dheut for e.g.). Since the Sun sets and the beauty sets (dies) we can have a link of why we (Albanians) use the 'perëndimi i Diellit' (Perenimi i Dillit, in Geg). Perëndi is also used in plural as Perënditë, which gives an impression that they could be several of them and they are not fully immortal because they 'set'.

Hope I have contributed a bit.

Yes you did, even too much. I'd like to ask you FBS, do you think "shqiptar" /skhiptar/ (albanian) cognates with "scepter"?

 

[julia90]

You must be kidding me, Italian R is very different than English.

indeed italian r is classified as dental/alveolar trill

while looking on wikipedia i've discovered albanian has two r sound one
like italian r alveoral trill
the other alveoral flap

the last one is more similar to english r that is still different (in english r is alveoral approximant)

 

[Endri]

indeed italian r is classified as dental/alveolar trill

while looking on wikipedia i've discovered albanian has two r sound one
like italian r alveoral trill
the other alveoral flap

the last one is more similar to english r that is still different (in english r is alveoral approximant)

As i said, you could have confused /r/ with /rr/ cause albanian /r/ is the same as the italian one. I for a moment thought that i've been pronouncing italian /r/ wrong all this years which would have been odd and weird since I leant how to speak italian by watching italian TVs and hearing italian spoken by italians -_-

 

[julia90]

As i said, you could have confused /r/ with /rr/ cause albanian /r/ is the same as the italian one. I for a moment thought that i've been pronouncing italian /r/ wrong all this years which would have been odd and weird since I leant how to speak italian by watching italian TVs and hearing italian spoken by italians -_-

you are right, if you can differentiate betwen italian dialects and regional speeches, you see that all of them have the trill r, with the exception of some speeches in piedmont and parma, which have r similar with the french r.
In sicily, they usually double the r sound geminating it, rr

 

[Malsori]

Not all Albanians pronounce the r like English people.Those are usually Albanians from Albania,and some others.While the other part pronounce normally.

 

[Endri]

Not all Albanians pronounce the r like English people.Those are usually Albanians from Albania,and some others.While the other part pronounce normally.

Yes cause if you pronounce /r/ like english you sound like gay or effeminate at least...

Anyway i would like to know the etymology of the word 'arratisje' / 'arratisem' (v), 'escape' in english. Is it a loan word or PIE word? Or is a composed word?

At first look, my opinion is that is a composed word. The root being the word 'ara' (basically meaning 'field' in archaic albanian or smth like 'crop field'in modern one) ('arat' plural) and meaning "iki/vrapoj arave", "run through the fields" english. I mean seeing how we (albania) were a agricultural country and undeveloped (in Industry) until the end of WW II saying for smo who escapes that he runned through the fields seems pretty logic?


Also i would like to know the roots of the words 'Verë(a)'-'Summer' and 'Vjeshtë(a)'-'Autumn'. I know 'Dimër'-'Winter' is of PIE root since i think i saw it smo on Taranis posts, and 'Pranvera'-'Spring' literally meaning 'Near summer' so the only ones remaining are this two + is there andy connection between the word 'Vera' (summer) and 'Vera' (wine)? Or just coincidences?

 

[FBS]

I'd like to ask you FBS, do you think "shqiptar" /skhiptar/ (albanian) cognates with "scepter"?[/QUOTE]

This is a tricky one, and we always need to be carefull when we are trying to decode and find the cognates behind the words. I am not sure if it cognates with scepter, I think it is the other way round. Scepter cognates with Skipe and Skifter (we find it as shaft in Old english).

Why do I think so:
Etruscans used the scepters, from them the Romans continued the tradition. The Romans had an golden eagle on the scepter, and eagle in old albanian is Skipe and/or Skifter. So I do not think that this word came to us through Latin or Greek, it was actualy passed on from our old language to these languages.

If we dig deeper into the word scepter we will find other meanings behind it and one of them is "overlooking", which an eagle (Shqiponja & Skifteri) does from the sky.

On the other hand skiptim (shqiptim) means to pronounce/announce in Albanian, it has nothing to do with the sceptre. So 'shqipëtarët' are "those who speak" most probably ment "the real/our language", which again goes deeper in the history.

These were shortly two reasonings from my side that explain that Shqiptar does not cognate with scepter, in my opinion.

 

[julia90]

Also i would like to know the roots of the words 'Verë(a)'-'Summer' and 'Vjeshtë(a)'-'Autumn'. I know 'Dimër'-'Winter' is of PIE root since i think i saw it smo on Taranis posts, and 'Pranvera'-'Spring' literally meaning 'Near summer' so the only ones remaining are this two + is there andy connection between the word 'Vera' (summer) and 'Vera' (wine)? Or just coincidences?

In italian we have Primavera (Spring).., in latin VER , (IS) means spring,

the italian word Inverno (winter), could be derived from VER,(IS), since classical latin word for winter is BRUMA, (AE) or HIEMS, (IS)

 

[FBS]

I forgot to add one more thing regarding the scepter.

In Albanian the proper names for scepter are "shkop" and "sqepar". Look at the model of the egyptian scepter, it has a beak - "sqep". So again I find a better explanation for the name scepter in Albanin then in other languages because it describes the form of the scpeter which is beak-like thing held by the Egyptian rulers.

 

[Yetos]

the word Schiptar
I believe it has to do more with the Greek words Ξεφτερι Γυπας Γυπαετος (Xephteri Whipas Whipaetos)

the photos of the birds and their names,

1
Gypas Fulvus γυπας (whupas-whipas)

2
Gypaetus barbatus (γυπαετος whupaetos whipaetos)

3
also Accipiter nissus Greek Xephteri (ξεφτερι) *
considering the Aeolian X was sk then Xephteri will be Ksephteri Aeolian Skephteri

4
the Falco Subbuteo Greek stravogerako (στραβογερακο - δενδρογερακο)

the connection among Gyp Xepht and Shqip I thing it is obvious
it possible that Shq is a satem form of Centum G or X But I like taranis Help here.

 

[Hal Fao]

I forgot to add one more thing regarding the scepter.

In Albanian the proper names for scepter are "shkop" and "sqepar". Look at the model of the egyptian scepter, it has a beak - "sqep". So again I find a better explanation for the name scepter in Albanin then in other languages because it describes the form of the scpeter which is beak-like thing held by the Egyptian rulers.

In Albanian there is "stap" (staff) and "shkop" (scepter); Albanian "shkop" is a compound word: "sh-" (negative prefix) and "kop" (really "kep" or "qep" /khep/ = KEEP together, stich). The same for "sqep" (beak): "s-" is a negative prefix.
The Albanian (or Aeolian) word "scephter" (falco) or Albanian "shqipe" (eagle) relate to "sqep" /skhep/ (beak).
In many ancient Egyptian pictures there are both the scepter and the falco (and the snake). In the center of the Balkans there was a city called "Stab" (on BC times, but unfortunately I do not remember the source where I've found it) which in nowadays is called "Shkup" or "Scopje" (compare with Albanian "stap" and "shkop"). The ROD is the first tool made and used by the man and the scepter has been a symbol of power.
That's why I asked you FBS if "scepter" cognates with "shqiptar" /skhiptar/ (albanian).

 

[Endri]

According to Gustav Meyer and supported by Robert Elsie

Shqiptar derived from the Albanian verbs shqipoj (to speak clearly) and shqiptoj (to speak out, pronounce), which are in turn derived from theLatin verb excipere, denoting brethren who speak the Albanian language, similar to the ethno-linguistic dichotomies Sloven-Nemac and Deutsch-Wälsch

According to Maximilian Lambertz:

Shqiptar derived the word from the Albanian noun shqipe,or shqiponjë (eagle), which, according to Albanian folk etymology, denoted a bird totemdating from the times of Skanderbeg, as displayed on the Albanian flag

Which I personally think is the closest one to the truth...

According to Peter Skok:

Suggests that the name originated from Scupi (Albanian: Shkupi), the capital of the Scipio Roman province of Dardania (today's Skopje)

I don't see what this scepter (btw this /ce/ is read as /çe/ or /ke/ ??) has to do? If you're tryin' to find the etymology of the words like 'Shqipe/Shqiponj' or 'Skifter' I can understand but Shqiptar? I mean if this is true than the meaning evolution is from scepter>shqipe (or smth else)>shqipëtar. Are you tryin' to prove so? Then be more clear cause if you're confusing me I can't imagine about another person who knows nothing about our language.

Also about 'sqepar', this word is a common word between Romanian and our language.

 

[Yetos]

Not only in Albanian and romanian,

σκεπαρνι etc

far ancient Homeric we find the word ξεω (virb) xeo, means I use the axe to scratch
the scratch tool in Greek is αξις - αξινος (possesive) and Σκαπανη (Skapani-Skapane)
compare Virb Σκαπτω (I use axe to dig, I dig with hammer)
comparing Homeric Ξιφει (Xifei Xifi Skifei ) the sharp nose and later Ακις we see that axe cognates with f
f p and V are same family shifts
so Xifei goes Aeolian Skifei -> Skipei ->Skapani

so the word Sqepar Albanian Romanian cognates also with Greek Σκαπανη and Σκεπαρι (Skapani Skepari)
Skeparion = Hammer Skapani = Hoe

I thing all extract after same root the axe (aske ->ske->sqe)

consider that in Pontic greek hammer is Σκηπαρvi (Skiparni)

in Fact I believe that Scepter and Sqepar have same root

although since I am not albanian I do not know if Sqepar cognates with Shqiptar

 

[Endri]

Actually the root of the word 'sqepar' or 'sqep' would be 'qep'. /s/ is an negative prefix. 'qep' it self in albanian means 'stich' , 'onion' (which I think was a second meaning to stich cause onion makes you cry thus somehow making you open your eyes, move your eyes or smth like that. Note that the word for 'eyelid' in albanian is 'qep-allë'. Maybe coming for 'qep' (stich) since eyelids "stich" your eyes...idk it might sound a bit crazy (!) )and 'qep(e)' 'shut up'...

So if 'sqepar' is from 'qep' + the negative prefix /s/ it means 'un-stich' cause a 'sqepar' in modern day (and i know this since my grandfather is a carpenter and i know the tools) is used besides as a hammer to remove nails from wood pieces too...somehow to 'unstich' ?

And 'sqep' 'beak' might have been used for the 'beak' since (i might be very wrong here since i'm not a biologist) some birds have their beaks like some small teeths like this form /\/\/\/\/\/\ like a stich and when the bird opens his mouth/beak he unstiches them aka 's-qep'.

Idk this my crazy theory...

 

[Taranis]

I am uncertain regarding the origin of the word "sqiptar", but I would like to remind you that the development of k to q in Albanian is a relatively late development that occured after ca. 500 AD, due to the fact that Latin loanwords are affected by it (civitas > qytet).

 

[Hal Fao]

Yes Taranis, You're right related to Albanian "q" (although in Gheg Albanian, as a general rule there is no "q"). My idea consists mainly in the role of the Albanian negative prefix "s" or "sh" (note that this negative prefix does still exist in Latin languages too, but in Albanian it is widely used. In Etruscan it has been used more widely than in nowadays Albanian).
Compare for eg. Albanian "shpreh" (express) or "shprehem" (express oneself) and German “sprechen” (speak); Albanian "shpik" (invent) and English "speak", as well as Italian "spieg/are" (express) and German "spieg/el" (mirror) where the role of prefix "s" (or "sh") is quite clear.