bertrand
Regular Member
In this post I wish to react to the excellent article of Maciamo on the origin of red haired people. I agree with everything that he wrote except on one point: the origin of R1b (and R1a).
Maciamo favors “The theory of middle east origin (a point which very few population geneticists disagree) followed by a migration to the north Caucasus and Pontic Steppe).”
My opinion is that R1a and R1b came much more likely from the Ural Mountains than from the Caucasus. Several hints guide me to this conclusion:
Maciamo favors “The theory of middle east origin (a point which very few population geneticists disagree) followed by a migration to the north Caucasus and Pontic Steppe).”
My opinion is that R1a and R1b came much more likely from the Ural Mountains than from the Caucasus. Several hints guide me to this conclusion:
- Ancestor/cousin clades of R1a and R1b: R1, R2, M73 show very clearly a pattern of migration starting in Pakistan and moving up north to the Urals (probably at the end of the ice age). The study of Myres et Al shows clearly that M73 is today present mostly in Pakistan and in the Urals. (google map: M73 marker)
- The linguist David Anthony who studied the origin of IE languages clearly established in his book the “Wheel, the Horse and language” that the similarities between PIE and Uralic languages were greater than with the languages of the Caucasus. Similarities between PIE languages and semitic languages were on the other hand very few. Therefore ancient ties between semites and IEs are unlikely.
- Around 8000BC there was a water stream between the Caspian and the Black see, due to the melting ice. Both seas were much wider than currently. Communication between the Steppes and the Caucausus was greatly hampered. On the other hand, Anthony shows clearly cultural migrations down the Volga.
- Everyone agrees on the reverse migration of R1a toward the Urals and from there, down to Iran and India. If there was a clear flux of migrations across the Caucasus, the R1a people would have migrated directly across semitic land, the direct route. It much more likely that the exchanges and ties between the steppes and the middle east across the Caucasus were very few. On the other hand, the route up the Volga was natural for them since they had taken that route several times before. (Tarim mummies)
- Turkey: I believe the fact that many R1bs were found in Turkey is a misleading factor. Anthony shows that the Anatolian R1bs migrated from the lower Danube around 4000BC. But their cultural heritage linked them very clearly back to the Steppes.