Kosovo

Ok, lets take it one by one. We'll discuss other topics later. Number of ethnic Albanians:

Kosovo census:
1948 - 498.000
1991 - 1.596.000

That is 3.2 times over the 43 year period.

Albania census:
1945 - 1.075.000
1989 - 3.117.000

That is 2.9 times over the period of 44 years.


The multiplier is pretty much around 3x in both areas.
 
Good old Sam Vaknin. I used to read 10 years ago his writings on narcissists and I loved it, but I did not know that he was engaged in the region. Thanks for the link I enjoyed reading it all to the end, my thoughts exactly. I know that Greater Albania at this moment is just a myth, something that I expressed in this threadearlier when you brought it up, and politicians use it when they are loosing their power but not when they are secure in their positions, it is just a rhetoric. No one in Kosovo takes this rhetoric seriously, since we know they cannot deliver.

Regarding Yugo - nostalgia, I am sorry but I do not feel the same with you. I think that it is about time for you to let it go as wel. There is no use, we have to think of what lies ahead and, most of all, enjoy the now. There is only one life we get to live so we should try to make it as better as possible for ourselves without doing harm to others. We cannot bring back the time, we can only give our best efforts now for a better future, learn from the past and vow never to make same mistakes again. We can only be responsible for our personal deeds, so let us all start from ourselves. Balkan needs to get over the past and look into the future. I hope you agree...

Yes, Dr. Vaknin is right, Greater Albania is myth, today, tomorrow and for all times. But that idea brings a lot of fears among Montenegrins, Serbs, Macedonians and Greeks, because projects of Greater Albania have its active supporters.

Yesterday was development, and it was rapid development. Today crime, corruption, extremism etc. eroding societies. It is better to return to the path of development.
 
Yes, Dr. Vaknin is right, Greater Albania is myth, today, tomorrow and for all times. But that idea brings a lot of fears among Montenegrins, Serbs, Macedonians and Greeks, because projects of Greater Albania have its active supporters.

Yesterday was development, and it was rapid development. Today crime, corruption, extremism etc. eroding societies. It is better to return to the path of development.
Cheer up pal, negativity kills the initiative. So stand up and do something about it in your country. That is what I do with my everyday work, I don't intend to give up. I can definitely give my contribution to the now and to the future, but there is nothing I can do about the past. So, let us make better now(y).
 
Ok, lets take it one by one. We'll discuss other topics later. Number of ethnic Albanians:

Kosovo census:
1948 - 498.000
1991 - 1.596.000

That is 3.2 times over the 43 year period.

Albania census:
1945 - 1.075.000
1989 - 3.117.000

That is 2.9 times over the period of 44 years.


The multiplier is pretty much around 3x in both areas.

Albania after War had immigration from Greece because Albanians in Greece were on the side of the occupiers. I don't know if Albanians from Greece went to Yugoslavia directly, although I do not beleive. Kosovo had immigration from Albania after 1948 (at fifties) and it was documented. Assumed to be from Albania to Serbia about 75.000 Albanians, maybe more. I don't know if immigration continued at sixties and seventies. One part of Turks was assimilated into Albanians. Thesis of FBS about internal immigrations Albanians in Yugoslavia is interesting, but it was not documented. Keep in mind that the figures are exaggerated due to lack of experience interviewing or intentions. Of course birth rate was high. There is still some momentum. Yugoslav and Serbian communists took care about people. Health care was highly improved (better than today in Kosovo!). And child mortality has dropped significantly. Although Albanians difficult recognize, Serbian communists were like angels.
 
And child mortality has dropped significantly. Although Albanians difficult recognize, Serbian communists were like angels.
Please do not put Serbian communist and angels in one sentence:grin:.

I see that Slavs (Serb and Macedonian) are obsessed with the natality rates of Albanians in Yugoslavia. Be aware that this is a racism. I tried to make it funny and a bit of sarcastic in my previous replies regarding this matter, but seriously you need to drop it since it is in breach of human rights, none can order anyone how many children they can have, it is a personal thing. And frankly this natality thing is a myth used by Slav nationalist so it became a "babaroga"for Serbs and Macedonians of Yugoslavia.
 
I quoted that because Marko94 expressed doubs that there is no chance that some population had such a high growth of 3x over the period of 4 decades and that Yugoslavian government lied. I've quoted him the Albanian population growth for same period, where he can see that it was not uncommon, and that those two neighbours of same national identity, same language, similar socio-economic position and religion shared the similar population growth rate for that period.

I'm sure there were some people getting here and there, internal migrations, and illegal immigrants on all territories, but not in so big numbers to deteriorate the obvious trend in both populations, or to support his accusations of objectivity of the censuses that communists did.
 
Cheer up pal, negativity kills the initiative. So stand up and do something about it in your country. That is what I do with my everyday work, I don't intend to give up. I can definitely give my contribution to the now and to the future, but there is nothing I can do about the past. So, let us make better now.

You did not notice, I wrote in the plural. The Balkans is much collapsed, the Balkans is now ruined. Kosovo has less GDP per capita in compare with quite African countries, which used greatly exceeded. Albania is poor and actually has no development. And Bosnia dropped significantly, but not much better are other former YU republics. Serbia was destroyed due to NATO bombing and sanctions. Bulgaria lost in migrations amazing part of population. The bad thing is that Greece is in trouble. Perhaps due to situation in surrounding some Albanian strategists push for a Greater Albania. If Greece, Serbia, Montenegro and other countries are stronger certainly such "projects" would not exist.
 
You did not notice, I wrote in the plural. The Balkans is much collapsed, the Balkans is now ruined. Kosovo has less GDP per capita in compare with quite African countries, which used greatly exceeded. Albania is poor and actually has no development. And Bosnia dropped significantly, but not much better are other former YU republics. Serbia was destroyed due to NATO bombing and sanctions. Bulgaria lost in migrations amazing part of population. The bad thing is that Greece is in trouble. Perhaps due to situation in surrounding some Albanian strategists push for a Greater Albania. If Greece, Serbia, Montenegro and other countries are stronger certainly such "projects" would not exist.
Yeah, I see, all doom and gloom. Well people, this is all from me in this thread. I do not think that I can contribute anymore to change your perception of the world and especially Balkans and Albanians, I guess you are not prepared. So be good:cool-v:
 
Please do not put Serbian communist and angels in one sentence.

I see that Slavs (Serb and Macedonian) are obsessed with the natality rates of Albanians in Yugoslavia. Be aware that this is a racism. I tried to make it funny and a bit of sarcastic in my previous replies regarding this matter, but seriously you need to drop it since it is in breach of human rights, none can order anyone how many children they can have, it is a personal thing. And frankly this natality thing is a myth used by Slav nationalist so it became a "babaroga"for Serbs and Macedonians of Yugoslavia.

In my writing you can not find, we only commented some earlier census' figures that were illogical and gave explanations. For me the growth of Albanian population in Kosovo is not problem. I said, armed rebellion is problem, and other negative phenomena (crime, Muslim intention to dominate etc.). But we in Serbia almost does not discuss about Albanian birth rate. Two decades ago in the Balkans Albanian children were born for 1/3 larger than Serbian children (Albanians were quite less population), today numbers are same.

But probably you're right for Macedonia. Maybe this is understandable because many places in Macedonia are mixed Albanians and Macedonians and which nation has higher birthrate, this nation will dominate in these places. And Albanians have high population growth in Macedonia. Now Macedonians say that is due to migrations from Kosovo. I don't know, but if migrations from Kosovo exist this will lead to the reduction of the population of Kosovo. I showed official data, now is less Albanians in Balkans than 2-3 decades ago. If and why Macedonians obsessed with Albanian birthrate let explain some Macedonian or Albanian from Macedonia.
 
And frankly this natality thing is a myth used by Slav nationalist...

That's all you have to say after I've quoted the censuses? What was the point of that sentence of yours?
You're consecutively claiming that someone is lying, and you're incapable to confront the facts.
 
Yeah, I see, all doom and gloom. Well people, this is all from me in this thread. I do not think that I can contribute anymore to change your perception of the world and especially Balkans and Albanians, I guess you are not prepared. So be good

What is your point? Balkan is economic devastated, Kosovo is the worst, but all countries are in big economic troubles. Do you think if you keep your mouth shut that things will improve?
 
Marko. Your opinion about Slavic nations is not real. Specifically, Serbs in last century and a half were mostly related to the London and United Kingdom. And many Serbs true adore UK. I think that all nations in the world have respect for UK, in England started the Industrial Revolution that was main turning point in the history of mankind.

Certainly Serbs have historic ties with France and Russia too. Also, Serbs highly regard Chinese. Between Balkans nations Serbs have strongest historical ties with Greeks. Serbs were one of the drivers of non-aligned countries and have developed excellent relationships with many Arab countries, African countries, India, Latin American countries and East Asian countries.

The most complex relationships are between Serbs and Germans/Austrians. In two world wars Serbs had three million victims in Balkans as a result of the occupation of Austria-Hungary and Nazi-Germany. In world war two a lot of Serbs were victims of puppet regime established by the Axis powers. By far most of the Serbian victims were in the “Independent state of Croatia” established by Axis powers, in this puppet country was the genocide against Serbs.

Germany today is the country that has one of the best economies in the world. Germany is the country with the most influence in European Union. Personally, I appreciate Germany. But relationships between two countries are complex and I can’t adorn. Although, Serbs and Austrians, Germans were for many centuries the Allies against the Ottoman Empire. Things are not black and white and the relationships between the nations depend on many factors.

And Serbs were Allies with Americans. The conflict between Clinton’s and Milosevic’s administration is tied to a specific time and historical circumstances. World genius Nikola Tesla, ethnic Serb, his most important inventions of mankind, has achieved in America. Serbs over a century emigrate in America, and there is a joke that after Belgrade (capital of Serbia) Chicago is the largest Serbian city.

This is just short of distract from the topic in response to your opinions about Russians and Slavs generally.

We back to the thread.
 
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Ok, lets take it one by one. We'll discuss other topics later. Number of ethnic Albanians:

Kosovo census:
1948 - 498.000
1991 - 1.596.000

That is 3.2 times over the 43 year period.

Albania census:
1945 - 1.075.000
1989 - 3.117.000

That is 2.9 times over the period of 44 years.


The multiplier is pretty much around 3x in both areas.

The census about in Kosovo are wrong.
And the census in Albania is a mixture with albanian,greek,italians,slavs and kosovar albanians LOL.
Ike this is a epic fail for you.......
 
Albania after War had immigration from Greece because Albanians in Greece were on the side of the occupiers. I don't know if Albanians from Greece went to Yugoslavia directly, although I do not beleive. Kosovo had immigration from Albania after 1948 (at fifties) and it was documented. Assumed to be from Albania to Serbia about 75.000 Albanians, maybe more. I don't know if immigration continued at sixties and seventies. One part of Turks was assimilated into Albanians. Thesis of FBS about internal immigrations Albanians in Yugoslavia is interesting, but it was not documented. Keep in mind that the figures are exaggerated due to lack of experience interviewing or intentions. Of course birth rate was high. There is still some momentum. Yugoslav and Serbian communists took care about people. Health care was highly improved (better than today in Kosovo!). And child mortality has dropped significantly. Although Albanians difficult recognize, Serbian communists were like angels.
OMG.
This is a OMG because you think yugoslavia is a perfect federation, but is a "s***t" (accept the truth) like albania comunist and ussr.
Albanian go just in greece and italy for find work because just two country are very great.
Yugoslavia a important federation for Albanian? Plis ****** Is just a your dream.
Yugoslavia has never been a federation rich and important.
You say "albanian in kosovo are aumented because from albania go in Kosovo", but this is wrong....family of my father was kick from kosovo by nazi german.
My father told me that many families were exiled and sent to Albania.
Thanks to these families kicked created villages in the north of Albania and passing the south by population.
My father was born in a village called "Xhakaze", this village was one of many created by the Kosovar Albanians.
Try to accept the truth, the fact of the censuses are all wrong.
The federation to which you believe that it is "so strong" is actually only a federation gear and without a spirit of nationality and on lies.
I don't understand why all slavs think that "Slavs are the best in the world"....why, why.........you are an example of nationalism given from birth.........
 
Marko. Your opinion about Slavic nations is not real. Specifically, Serbs in last century and a half were mostly related to the London and United Kingdom. And many Serbs true adore UK. I think that all nations in the world have respect for UK, in England started the Industrial Revolution that was main turning point in the history of mankind.

Certainly Serbs have historic ties with France and Russia too. Also, Serbs highly regard Chinese. Between Balkans nations Serbs have strongest historical ties with Greeks. Serbs were one of the drivers of non-aligned countries and have developed excellent relationships with many Arab countries, African countries, India, Latin American countries and East Asian countries.

The most complex relationships are between Serbs and Germans/Austrians. In two world wars Serbs had three million victims in Balkans as a result of the occupation of Austria-Hungary and Nazi-Germany. In world war two a lot of Serbs were victims of puppet regime established by the Axis powers. By far most of the Serbian victims were in the “Independent state of Croatia” established by Axis powers, in this puppet country was the genocide against Serbs.

Germany today is the country that has one of the best economies in the world. Germany is the country with the most influence in European Union. Personally, I appreciate Germany. But relationships between two countries are complex and I can’t adorn. Although, Serbs and Austrians, Germans were for many centuries the Allies against the Ottoman Empire. Things are not black and white and the relationships between the nations depend on many factors.

And Serbs were Allies with Americans. The conflict between Clinton’s and Milosevic’s administration is tied to a specific time and historical circumstances. World genius Nikola Tesla, ethnic Serb, his most important inventions of mankind, has achieved in America. Serbs over a century emigrate in America, and there is a joke that after Belgrade (capital of Serbia) Chicago is the largest Serbian city.

This is just short of distract from the topic in response to your opinions about Russians and Slavs generally.

We back to the thread.
Yea, i know how serbia love UK.
In fact governament of serbia "have a contrast with montenegro,fyrom and croatia" because they have recognize kosovo, and in fact uk not have recognize....LOL.
The really love of serbia is just Russia and Putin.
Governament of Serbia take cash from bak european and russia.
The other contry that joined in the ue they did it with their forces and european help.
Serbia enter with help of europa and help for russia :p.
the serbia don't have a personality, is controlled by russia.
Albania don't is controlled by usa,italy, or greece.



greece will have to make a decision.
Serbia or Albania?
Definitely choose albania for profits.
For many things pick Albania.
Economy, dispure of name "fyrom" or "macedonia", place names(south albania), rights of Greeks in the south of Albania.
One thing about Greece, greece don't recognizes Kosovo, ok but they have a rapport economy.
Not just serbia have a good rapport with arabs,chinese and other.

germany have a good rapports with all country of europe......i don't think just serbia have a good rapport iwth germany.
I think is no sense this nationalism.


USA have a rapport with russia and chinese.
But this rapport is truth? or just for economy?
I think in serbia the television say that "Serbia is big country! serbia have a important rapport with and etc.".
This is a "not nationalism" lol.
Listen me, your serbia don't nothing so special for all.......if is serbia is important for usa,germany and other in yugoslavia they not bombard belgrado and not recognizes kosovo.......
USA,Germany have report with you just for economy, but all do this.

And for Nikola Tesla i know he is Croatian......
 
OMG.
This is a OMG because you think yugoslavia is a perfect federation, but is a "s***t" (accept the truth) like albania comunist and ussr.
Albanian go just in greece and italy for find work because just two country are very great.
Yugoslavia a important federation for Albanian? Plis ****** Is just a your dream.
Yugoslavia has never been a federation rich and important.
You say "albanian in kosovo are aumented because from albania go in Kosovo", but this is wrong....family of my father was kick from kosovo by nazi german.
My father told me that many families were exiled and sent to Albania.
Thanks to these families kicked created villages in the north of Albania and passing the south by population.
My father was born in a village called "Xhakaze", this village was one of many created by the Kosovar Albanians.
Try to accept the truth, the fact of the censuses are all wrong.
The federation to which you believe that it is "so strong" is actually only a federation gear and without a spirit of nationality and on lies.
I don't understand why all slavs think that "Slavs are the best in the world"....why, why.........you are an example of nationalism given from birth.........

I think you didn't understand about I wrote. I tried to explain to you that Slavs are not much related to one another as you think, and there is no Slav unity. Every Slavic country is for itself and keep its policy. And you can see despite several Slavic nations in Balkans, Serbs have the best relationships with Greeks who are not Slavic people. I told you that the worst relations are between Croats and Serbs, but these two nations are both Slavic and very close according the Y-DNA.

I don't know what you want to say for WWII. Axis powers created Greater Albania. About 8.000-10.000 Serbs and Montenegrins were victims of terror in that puppet state, you can see that in Wikipedia according Serge Krizman Serbian victims are 10,000. About at least 100,000 Serbs and Montenegrins were refugees in Serbia and many of them after the war never came back to Kosovo.

Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Kosovo#cite_note-Istorija-56

"World war II

Most of the territory of today's province was occupied by Italian controlled Greater Albania, massacres of some 10,000 Serbs, ethnic cleansing of about 100 to 250,000 or more occurred.


Nazi Germany estimated that from November 1943 to February 1944, 40 000 Serbs fled Italian-occupied Kosovo for Montenegro and Serbia."


I'm not Serbian nationalist (I have liberal views) and you insult me. And find a single sentence where I insulted Albanians. I not say that Yugoslavia was ideal state but it had good sides, some of them which I explained. Be realistic and compares Yugoslavia and Albania in time of communists and tell which of the two countries is a better place to live.

Albanians collaborators of Axis powers were cruel to the Serbs during World War II. But Serbian and Albanian communists have cooperated in the fight against the occupiers and local collaborators.

If I'd really want to write in negative tones about Albanians I'd underlined topics about organized crime, Muslim fight for domination, violence and terror against the Serbs and Montenegrines, etc. But you can see these are not my topics.

My basic thesis is that armed rebellion is unacceptable as a method for achieving goals. Albanians in AP Kosovo in nineties adopted armed rebellion as a method to achieve goal of separatism from Serbia. I've already said what could be the appropriate way instead of armed rebellion.
 
And for Nikola Tesla i know he is Croatian......

No.

Tesla is ethnic Serb, his father was a priest of the Serbian Orthodox Church. Many Serbs lived in Lika during the Austria-Hungaria. Serbs fled Lika 1995.

Tesla biography:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla

Nikola Tesla (Serbian Cyrillic: Никола Тесла; 10 July 1856 – 7 January 1943) was a Serbian-born and later naturalized American [2][3] inventor, electrical engineer, mechanical engineer, physicist, and futurist best known for his contributions to the design of the modern alternating current (AC) electricity supply system.[4]"

Tesla loved Serbia and in Serbia is his legacy. You can see Nikola Tesla Museum in Belgrade.

http://www.tesla-museum.org/meni_en.htm

Americans and Serbs realized monument of Tesla in New York on Long Island. This monument will unveil president of Serbia Tomislav Nikolic, 23 september. You can watch it.

http://www.tanjug.rs/news/99776/nikola-tesla-monument-to-be-unveiled-in-new-york-on-monday.htm
 
The census about in Kosovo are wrong.
And the census in Albania is a mixture with albanian,greek,italians,slavs and kosovar albanians LOL.
Ike this is a epic fail for you.......

No, the data is consistent with each other and with DNA analysis, and they all show the same results. Accept it.
 
Yea, i know how serbia love UK.

History is not only 10-20 last years. And maybe you can't understand, UK in Serbia is probably most popular.

Between UK and Serbia exist relations of the royal families, you heard for the royal family Karadjordjevic.

germany have a good rapports with all country of europe......i don't think just serbia have a good rapport iwth germany.

You didn't understand. I just wrote that relationships between Germany and Serbia are very complex. Yes, for Serbia will be very hard to improve these relations.

But if you want to hear what I think about Germany? Very positive. I appreciate Germany for many things. Germany is true leader for European unity. Germany has very important role for European development, how Europe would not tomorrow lagged behind other countries and regions in the world.
 
I think in serbia the television say that "Serbia is big country! serbia have a important rapport with and etc.".
This is a "not nationalism" lol.

Television in Serbia say nothing. If you watch different TV channels in Serbia you can see fun, reality programs, series, movies, etc, or programs of economic situation. No one channel have propaganda nor nationalism. Few people would be interested in that. Why do ypu write about something what don't know.

Not just serbia have a good rapport with arabs,chinese and other.

You didn't understand. I didn't write because of Serbian Albanian relations, but only to refute your wrong thesis about Slavic unity. I wrote that Serbs have closer relations with many non Slavic nations than Slavic. Every Slavic nation is for itself. There is no a federation of all Slavs or Slavic military block. Seems to me that you are burdened with the Slavs (no offense).
 

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