Kosovo

[Ike]

Fiat Serbia was opened in 1955. What does it have to do with Kosovo and salaries in Albania and Ukraine?

 

[Garrick]

The wages in Eastern Europe ranging from 150 euro up to 800 euro .
The workers of the golden lady and they are paid 150 euro 11 hours of work.
The workers of FIAT (are 3,000 worker) are paid about 280 euro and also work them 11 hours.
What I mean is that we work to give to you .
Only in the past 3 years almost 60 % of the entrepreneurs have gone into Poland and Serbia because the salary ranges from 150 euro up to 350 euro (maximum).
Why should you ? Why have the lowest salaries in europe and also because you do not have rights at work .
Kosovo is a poor state because unemployment is around 45 %, but the salaries they are on the 400 \ 500 EUR .
So the cost of living in Kosovo is much higher than that of Serbia, FYROM and Bosnia .
Why not open it in Albania , Ukraine or Russia or another country ?
Because even them the salaries ranging from 350 euro up to 750 euro .
So it would be a disadvantage.
The salaries depend on the cost of living.
Plus the cost of living and the country is the poor, the wages will be low.
In Italy you can not live with a salary of 150 Euros as in the rest of western europe.

The immigrations is caused by work.
No work, aumented emigration.

I don't know what confuses you, but in Serbia wages are higher than 150 euros.

Average salaries Balkans (with Wikipedia):

Serbia $479
Bulgaria (EU) $414
Romania (EU) $485
Macedonia $458
Albania $264
Montenegro $618

You can see Serbia is similar as Romania.

But Albania is last, way behind Bulgaria.

Italian and other Europeans firms come in Serbia because conditions for investors are favorable and Serbian workers are good educated. This year Serbian economy will have growth.

Prices in Serbia are not high, especially food prices, as Serbia has good agriculture and food industry.

What is not good in Serbian economy is industrial production. Before two and more decades ago this production was much higher. Serbia was industrial country. Good news is that finally, industrial production began to grow significantly but it will need years to be surpassed production in 1989.

Serbia also needs to improve infrastructure and eradicate corruption. All Balkans countries have trouble with corruption.

Serbian industry began to decline due to sanctions, and dropped to the lowest level due to NATO bombing. Then destroyed and infrastructure. Quickly destroyed but recover can take years and years.

I say, fast solutions that are committed some western decision makers, mainly are the worst solutions. It is learned in the painful example of Serbia, therefore careful approach for Syria definitely seems to be better and can lead to sustainable solution.

 

[Marko94]

Fiat Serbia was opened in 1955. What does it have to do with Kosovo and salaries in Albania and Ukraine?

when he went into operation?
In 2008\2009.

That was just in comparison.
The fiat (not only them) have decided to open factories in Serbia and Poland because the salaries are low compared to other countries of Eastern Europe.

I don't know what confuses you, but in Serbia wages are higher than 150 euros.

Average salaries Balkans (with Wikipedia):

Serbia $479
Bulgaria (EU) $414
Romania (EU) $485
Macedonia $458
Albania $264
Montenegro $618

You can see Serbia is similar as Romania.

But Albania is last, way behind Bulgaria.

Italian and other Europeans firms come in Serbia because conditions for investors are favorable and Serbian workers are good educated. This year Serbian economy will have growth.

Prices in Serbia are not high, especially food prices, as Serbia has good agriculture and food industry.

What is not good in Serbian economy is industrial production. Before two and more decades ago this production was much higher. Serbia was industrial country. Good news is that finally, industrial production began to grow significantly but it will need years to be surpassed production in 1989.

Serbia also needs to improve infrastructure and eradicate corruption. All Balkans countries have trouble with corruption.

Serbian industry began to decline due to sanctions, and dropped to the lowest level due to NATO bombing. Then destroyed and infrastructure. Quickly destroyed but recover can take years and years.

I say, fast solutions that are committed some western decision makers, mainly are the worst solutions. It is learned in the painful example of Serbia, therefore careful approach for Syria definitely seems to be better and can lead to sustainable solution.

You use google translate.
http://www.frontediliberazionedaiba...fiat-e-i-306-euro-di-stipendio-118202305.html
But you have say the normal salary is 700.....now 479.
Pleas show a link.
I can't find, i just find that but...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_average_salary

 

[Ike]

Fiat Serbia was opened in 1955. What does it have to do with Kosovo and salaries in Albania and Ukraine?

when he went into operation?
In 2008\2009.

You're assuming that it took 53 years for Italians to put one facility into operation? :grin: What organizational geniuses, those Italians...
And the design! OMG, is so retro that it's stunning. New Fiat 600 from Serbia will break all the records

http://www.glassrbije.org/kultura/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/field/slike/fica_0.jpg
http://www.kragujevac.co.rs/wp-content/uploads/Fica1.jpg

 

[Garrick]

But you have say the normal salary is 700.....now 479.

I gave average salaries for Balkans countries.

I didn't say that average salary in Serbia is 700 euros. No.

I said that someone who have salary 700 euros in Serbia maybe has more than his/her colleague who has 900 euros in another country, because costs of living in Serbia are less than in most European countries.

One reason is because Serbia has relatively developed agriculture and it less imports foodstuffs.

Summary again:

Average wages

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe_by_net_average_wage

Serbia $479
Bulgaria (EU) $414
Romania (EU) $485
Macedonia $458
Albania $264
Montenegro $618.

And you can see average wages in Serbia are about three times more than you claimed.

 

[Marko94]

Fiat Serbia was opened in 1955. What does it have to do with Kosovo and salaries in Albania and Ukraine?



You're assuming that it took 53 years for Italians to put one facility into operation? :grin: What organizational geniuses, those Italians...
And the design! OMG, is so retro that it's stunning. New Fiat 600 from Serbia will break all the records

http://www.glassrbije.org/kultura/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/field/slike/fica_0.jpg
http://www.kragujevac.co.rs/wp-content/uploads/Fica1.jpg

Fiat can close it to reopen the factory ......... I know that in 2008 they opened two factories closed (closed in the past) and built a new factory to Kragujeva.
I know this.
And then in between these factories we work 3,000 workers Serbs.
What I do know is this, look at the fact that in Italy the factories in Serbia is not pleasant ......... because while we have 2 factories closed and one is suspended (mirabello) but taking other workers in Serbia .

 

[Marko94]

I gave average salaries for Balkans countries.

I didn't say that average salary in Serbia is 700 euros. No.

I said that someone who have salary 700 euros in Serbia maybe has more than his/her colleague who has 900 euros in another country, because costs of living in Serbia are less than in most European countries.

One reason is because Serbia has relatively developed agriculture and it less imports foodstuffs.

Summary again:

Average wages

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe_by_net_average_wage

Serbia $479
Bulgaria (EU) $414
Romania (EU) $485
Macedonia $458
Albania $264
Montenegro $618.

And you can see average wages in Serbia are about three times more than you claimed.

But the date about salary for Albania is old.
You can't compare the salary of albanian and serbia, because the date is very long (3 years).

 

[Garrick]

But the date about salary for Albania is old.
You can't compare the salary of albanian and serbia, because the date is very long (3 years).

Life in Serbia (and all over the Balkans) is better than Albania, and these data are accurate.

You have examples that people from Albania come in Serbia as migrants.

You don't have examples that people from Serbia are migrants to Albania.

 

[Marko94]

Life in Serbia (and all over the Balkans) is better than Albania, and these data are accurate.

You have examples that people from Albania come in Serbia as migrants.

You don't have examples that people from Serbia are migrants to Albania.

Probably you're an alien or come from a parallel universe where Albanians and Serbs are friends.
Maybe escapes you one thing , the countries of Eastern Europe (except the Czech Republic ) are all poor.
In the internet (thanks to my friend Albanian ) I discovered the Albanians emigrated to Italy , Germany or USA .
Serbia is a poor country , because you have the "courage" to equate Serbia with Italy,Germany,USA and other country of first world ?
Who are you to say that Serbia is rich ? If it were so then why you Serbs emigrated to Italy?



The Albanians have never emigrated to Serbia since these two ethnic groups hate each other, and since the middle ages the albanians have always emigrated to Italy , always.
The fact that the Albanians in Serbia are not yet known .
If it turns out that the Albanians originate in those populations that abiravano the Balkans before the Slavs as you put it? In Italy the fact that the Albanians are Slavs in the Balkans before you ( I'm not saying that Albanians are sourced from Illyrians ) is completely confirmed .
From what? From language.
The word in albanian language is majority.
Probably the Albanians were taken by the Romans and moved in the Balkans ( if they confirm that the Albanians not have origins from the Illyrians , Thracians or other).


Accordin to video (you know which video) in Albania stay 30.000 serbians (don't is a precise census).

 

[kamani]

The Albanians have never emigrated to Serbia since these two ethnic groups hate each other

Let's calm down a bit, Albanians don't hate Serbs, a few Kosovar Albanians maybe, because they were occupied by them and have had bad experiences. Albanians from Albania don't know/don't care about Serbs, they don't immigrate there because it does not have to offer much more than Albania.

 

[Ike]

He is just joking with you Garrick. You see that he is turning your thoughts around, and making a total mess out of this thread.

 

[Garrick]

He is just joking with you Garrick. You see that he is turning your thoughts around, and making a total mess out of this thread.

I have patience. And I avoid many things to say. When I would write it he would only ever seen as unfavorable to the reality (for Albanians). But I will not, I want to be gentle. But this what I write is based on data and data are relentless, whatever effort distortion can't twist the true.

 

[Garrick]

Let's calm down a bit, Albanians don't hate Serbs, a few Kosovar Albanians maybe, because they were occupied by them and have had bad experiences. Albanians from Albania don't know/don't care about Serbs, they don't immigrate there because it does not have to offer much more than Albania.

I was clear enough. I didn't write that people from Albania have mass emigration in Serbia. I only wrote that there are migrants from Albania to Serbia, but no migrants from Serbia to Albania. These are not big numbers and these are facts. Serbia, in spite of all that had, is survived and it is much better place for life than Albania.

 

[Marko94]

Let's calm down a bit, Albanians don't hate Serbs, a few Kosovar Albanians maybe, because they were occupied by them and have had bad experiences. Albanians from Albania don't know/don't care about Serbs, they don't immigrate there because it does not have to offer much more than Albania.

I'm not angry.
I know the Albanians hate Serbs as the Serbs hate Albanians.
Just only see the match Serbia vs Italy what they burned.
Obviously I do not say "all Albanians hate Serbs," but probably the majority (perhaps only scutari not hate them because it is half Serbian).

About emigration.
The thing that you say is the same thing that I say.
The problem is that Garrick think that Serbia is a great power, but in reality is only a poor country such as Albania, Ukraine, FYROM, Romania and other.
I do not understand why Garrick thinks that Serbia is far ahead of all, since it is not.

 

[Marko94]

He is just joking with you Garrick. You see that he is turning your thoughts around, and making a total mess out of this thread.

Don't is a joking.
I just say the truth.

 

[Marko94]

I was clear enough. I didn't write that people from Albania have mass emigration in Serbia. I only wrote that there are migrants from Albania to Serbia, but no migrants from Serbia to Albania. These are not big numbers and these are facts. Serbia, in spite of all that had, is survived and it is much better place for life than Albania.

Mhhhh?
You know how is work a country ?
Maybe you do not know , but it was thanks to companies ( national and international) earn with taxes.
In Serbia there are 500 Italian companies active (for Repubblica are 1.100 http://inchieste.repubblica.it/it/r...ews/investimenti_italiani_in_serbia-31234386/)
Do you know why there are so many compared to other countries of the Balkans ?
For the cost of workers ( low) and taxes (which are around 11 % -22 %).


I'll explain how the brain of an Italian businessman .


"I'm failing, in which country I go to the location for save my company?
There needs a country where the cost of workers is low and low taxes .
Ok , I make a list.
( this is just a example , i know just the salary of serbia and poland )
Albania = The salary is around 450 \ 500 euro and the taxe is 14% with right worker .
Croatia = The salary is around 450 \ 500 euro and taxe 12% or 10 % with right worker .
Poland = The salary is around 300 \ 400 euro and taxe 12 % or 13% without right worker .
Serbia = The salary is 200 \ 300 euro and taxe is 12 % or 13% without tight worker .
Now I have to choose which country.
I choose serbia because wages are low, I make them work 11 hours a day and taxes are low . "
This is why there are so many Italian companies in Serbia compared to other countries of Eastern Europe .

 

[Ike]

Don't is a joking. I just say the truth.

1. You do not. You're saying a lot of misleading things that divert the conversation to a nonsense. How are sentences like this supposed to be interpreted?

Who are you to say that Serbia is rich ? If it were so then why you Serbs emigrated to Italy?

Why are you involving a subjective descriptor as "being rich" is, next to specific parameters that define an economic status of one country, which Garrick has presented?
More than that, where have you seen him saying that Serbia is rich, or that is richer compared to Italy?

2.Your generalization about Albanians is also wrong. I'm the third person here to know that most of Albanians from Albania don't care a lot about Serbia (negative or positive). For what is worth, I have also heard that they have negative bias towards Albanians of Kosovo. If you have different opinion or better data, present them.

3. Are you the one who is giving negative ratings to Garrick's posts? Because that would be a misuse of rating system. It is not Facebook like/dislike button. You don't give someone a negative rating just because you don't agree with his opinion.

4. You "Italian businessman" logic is fine, but if it was only for that, then Serbia would be full of Swedish, German, British, Canadian and Japanese factories....

 

[Marko94]

1. You do not. You're saying a lot of misleading things that divert the conversation to a nonsense. How are sentences like this supposed to be interpreted?


Why are you involving a subjective descriptor as "being rich" is, next to specific parameters that define an economic status of one country, which Garrick has presented?
More than that, where have you seen him saying that Serbia is rich, or that is richer compared to Italy?

2.Your generalization about Albanians is also wrong. I'm the third person here to know that most of Albanians from Albania don't care a lot about Serbia (negative or positive). For what is worth, I have also heard that they have negative bias towards Albanians of Kosovo. If you have different opinion or better data, present them.

3. Are you the one who is giving negative ratings to Garrick's posts? Because that would be a misuse of rating system. It is not Facebook like/dislike button. You don't give someone a negative rating just because you don't agree with his opinion.

4. You "Italian businessman" logic is fine, but if it was only for that, then Serbia would be full of Swedish, German, British, Canadian and Japanese factories....

1)No, no I'm telling you what's going on in Serbia (increase in GDP and increase request work) and what is happening in Italy (decrease of GDP and a decrease in job demands).It was you who talk about the economy serbia, I'm just saying do not be so happy because in Italy everything is wrong.

He said that Serbia is better than the other countries of the Balkans.
Says who? Who is he to confirm?
Strange, in Italy when it comes to the Balkans know what they say?


"Croatia's entry into eu and immediately asked for funds to European bank.
The bulgaria has a financial crisis and wants to go out by the eu.
Greece same thing.
Albania country with a high rate of corruption and the mafia, if you fail to remove corruption might become a great country.
In Italy there is little information on Bosnia, so I'm not very knowledgeable about how things are going.
FYROM same thing, are not informed of this country.
In Serbia have opened other factories while here it close others. "
These are the news and information that I have.

2)I have never been in Albania.
My name is "Marko", this name was given to me just born and had my paternal grandfather.
When I was 3 years old, my parents separated and after I acquired the surname of my mother (Torrini), in fact my name is Marko Torrini.
I know a few Albanians (only 7 and my father), and thanks to them and to the information on the internet or tv I realized that most of the Albanians hate Serbs.
My information about the relations between Albania and Serbia, I have taken from internet, read the newspaper or seen on TV.

3)Mine is not antipathy.
I can not give negative votes? If I tell the truth and you do not accept it is not my fault.
I'm telling you that there are so many companies in Serbia because wages are low.
In Serbia there are more than 500 companies, compared to other countries of Eastern Europe, Serbia is the country with the highest number of Italian companies.
I have already explained why there are so many companies in Serbia, I do not need any of the second explanation.

4)In fact, in Serbia there are not only Italian companies.

 

[Ike]

1)No, no I'm telling you what's going on in Serbia (increase in GDP and increase request work) and what is happening in Italy (decrease of GDP and a decrease in job demands).It was you who talk about the economy serbia, I'm just saying do not be so happy because in Italy everything is wrong.

He said that Serbia is better than the other countries of the Balkans.
Says who? Who is he to confirm?
Strange, in Italy when it comes to the Balkans know what they say?


"Croatia's entry into eu and immediately asked for funds to European bank.
The bulgaria has a financial crisis and wants to go out by the eu.
Greece same thing.
Albania country with a high rate of corruption and the mafia, if you fail to remove corruption might become a great country.
In Italy there is little information on Bosnia, so I'm not very knowledgeable about how things are going.
FYROM same thing, are not informed of this country.
In Serbia have opened other factories while here it close others. "
These are the news and information that I have.

Nowhere did he he impose that Serbia is in economic way superior than other Balkan countries. Where did you get that idea from?
It's obvious from the numbers he posted that it is in the same group with Bulgaria, Romania and Macedonia.

2)I have never been in Albania.
My name is "Marko", this name was given to me just born and had my paternal grandfather.
When I was 3 years old, my parents separated and after I acquired the surname of my mother (Torrini), in fact my name is Marko Torrini.
I know a few Albanians (only 7 and my father), and thanks to them and to the information on the internet or tv I realized that most of the Albanians hate Serbs.
My information about the relations between Albania and Serbia, I have taken from internet, read the newspaper or seen on TV.

I thought the same because it felt logical for them all to hate Serbians, but then people who have actually been to Albanian and spoken with Albanians told me different.

3)Mine is not antipathy.
I can not give negative votes? If I tell the truth and you do not accept it is not my fault.

No you should not give negative votes for that. You don't give negative votes just because someone's opinion is different, or because you think that you know the truth and he doesn't.

I'm telling you that there are so many companies in Serbia because wages are low.
In Serbia there are more than 500 companies, compared to other countries of Eastern Europe, Serbia is the country with the highest number of Italian companies.
I have already explained why there are so many companies in Serbia, I do not need any of the second explanation.
In fact, in Serbia there are not only Italian companies.

Yeah, we all know Serbia and whole Balkan is pretty fu*ed up economically. It's so obvious that there is no need to repeat it again. If someone doesn't know that, he should be not talking about economics anyway

 

[Marko94]

Nowhere did he he impose that Serbia is in economic way superior than other Balkan countries. Where did you get that idea from?
It's obvious from the numbers he posted that it is in the same group with Bulgaria, Romania and Macedonia.

I have take from Garrick.
Countries with a high increase in GDP are only Albania, Croatia, Kosovo and Serbia.
These 4 countries are talking about because they have made ​​great strides in the field of economics.
When you say (for example) "Albania has a better economy than in Serbia" or "Serbia has a better economy than Albania" I criticize them because these phrases are countries that make great strides in the economy and certainly it will take (I'm not entirely sure) at least 15 or 20 years ago to establish who is better in the Balkans (the first is the Greece).
I notice that a lot of people to join the group Balkans "Romania" and "Slovenia".
These two states are not part of the Balkans.

I thought the same because it felt logical for them all to hate Serbians, but then people who have actually been to Albanian and spoken with Albanians told me different.

Ok.

No you should not give negative votes for that. You don't give negative votes just because someone's opinion is different, or because you think that you know the truth and he doesn't.

I did not give negative votes on the basis of antipathy.
But they were wrong.
My grades (if you look closely)i have take to Garrik when said "The wages in Serbia are about 700 Euros."
What totally wrong, that's all.

Yeah, we all know Serbia and whole Balkan is pretty fu*ed up economically. It's so obvious that there is no need to repeat it again. If someone doesn't know that, he should be not talking about economics anyway

All are pucked up economically.
But, each country has made ​​its steps to improve.Probably if there had never been a communist Yugoslavia, but Yugoslavia Democratic perhaps you would become a first world country.