A Genome-Wide Study of Modern-Day Tuscans: Revisiting Herodotus's Theory on the Origi

[bighipert]

you mean ger = lance
[SIZE=-1]e ger (lancia), può essere tradotto come vecchia lancia[/SIZE]

longobardic gaire = lance, gairethinx in Edictum Rothari, St. Gallen, "assembly of the people in arms". Look for "The Origins of the European Legal Order"

Dante's surnames means "noble lance" or "old lance"

 

[bighipert]

Italian is a Latin language

Sure? European language most similar to Latin is Romanian. Italian is a Romance language.

Ed. This is off topic for this thread, as I already pointed out. Just use the search engine to find the thread for the Langobards in Italy.

"Che fai? Mi cacci?" [cit.]

 

[Vallicanus]

Italian is a Latin language. The presence of a couple of hundred loan words in Italian, or place names or surnames from the Langobardi are of minor importance in the broad scheme of things.

I have no doubt that there was more Langobard ancestry in aristocratic families than in the vast majority of the populace.

As for Dante, a less Langobard looking man I can scarcely imagine. Plus, nobody's perfect, not even the divine Dante.

The depictions and descriptions of Dante indicate a dark, very non-Langobard-looking individual.

 

[Mars]

Arezzo (Tuscany), Ariadne (Etruscan: Areatha)

Minister Maria Elena Boschi from Montevarchi, Province of Arezzo:

http://images.vanityfair.it/Storage...763/Maria-Elena-Boschi-VF-16-2014_980x571.jpg

Excuse me for not posting her pic diectly. I have a lot of trouble with Eupedia, I can never post pictures and even digiting text is difficult, I don't know the reason...

 

[bighipert]

Minister Maria Elena Boschi from Montevarchi, Province of Arezzo:

http://images.vanityfair.it/Storage...763/Maria-Elena-Boschi-VF-16-2014_980x571.jpg

Excuse me for not posting her pic diectly. I have a lot of trouble with Eupedia, I can never post pictures and even digiting text is difficult, I don't know the reason...

Boschi is a germanic surname http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Bosch

 

[Angela]

Minister Maria Elena Boschi from Montevarchi, Province of Arezzo:

http://images.vanityfair.it/Storage...763/Maria-Elena-Boschi-VF-16-2014_980x571.jpg

Excuse me for not posting her pic diectly. I have a lot of trouble with Eupedia, I can never post pictures and even digiting text is difficult, I don't know the reason...

Mars, when you want to post a picture, first capture or copy the url of the picture. Then click on the picture screen icon here. At that point, click on "from url". Remove the check from remove remote file box. Then paste in the url and click ok. That should work.

Ed. make sure you click on the url box until you see the cursor before you paste in the url itself.

 

[Angela]

The depictions and descriptions of Dante indicate a dark, very non-Langobard-looking individual.

QUOTE=Vallicanus;457069]The depictions and descriptions of Dante indicate a dark, very non-Langobard-looking individual.[/QUOTE]

Why does everything boil down to pigmentation with you? First of all, Dante is well within the European range as portraits of him which have been restored show. This is a reconstruction from his skull. It matches quite well some of the portraits. Some depictions are very much more severe, so we can't know for sure, and we know the perils of reconstructions. However, as I said, within the range of European variation, although definitely not Langobard looking.

Much more important, his little finger is worth more than all the Langobard nobles put together in the grand scheme of European civilization, in my opinion, and I say that as someone who, given the fact that every hill in my area is crowned with a "Lombard" castle, and whose family tree contains more than one surname of Langobard derivation, probably carries some of their dna.


I used to have a "go" bag in case our local nuclear power plant exploded...Dante, a copy of The Complete Works of Shakespeare, and Montale were part of my "survival" kit.

For both you and Bighibert, this is a thread on the Etruscans. The next post on the Langobards after this one will be removed to a thread on their presence in Italy. Goodness knows I don't use a heavy hand as a moderator, but my patience is not infinite, especially with people who repeatedly try to bring their anthrofora war on Italians to this site, trying to place them as outliers in Europe, and the other side piping in to paint them as Norwegians. ENOUGH!

I am going to post on the appropriate thread my response to some of this discussion, because I am sometimes misquoted or misinterpreted.

 

[Kardu]

I've seen Dante's type of nose/profile on several people in Toscana. Even my teacher of Italian had it

 

[Mars]

Mars, when you want to post a picture, first capture or copy the url of the picture. Then click on the picture screen icon here. At that point, click on "from url". Remove the check from remove remote file box. Then paste in the url and click ok. That should work.

Ed. make sure you click on the url box until you see the cursor before you paste in the url itself.

It works!!! Thank you
So, compare Maria Elena Boschi, politician from the Arezzo area, and the statue of goddess Ariadne (from Arezzo). I find similarities (well, comparing a person to a statue isn't that easy, I know... but the facial structure is similar)

 

[wlkwos]

How do you explain this? Etruscans have clearly strong IE.


Etruscan pendant with swastika symbols, Bolsena, central Italy, 700-650 BC. Louvre Museum.

Bronze kardiophylax (pectoral armor)
Etruscan or Central Italian
ca. 675-625 BCE

British Museum, London
Blacas Collection
GR 1867.5-8.374
Bronze 368

Barrel-shaped oinochoe (jug) with goats planking a tree and geometric patterns, Etruscan, Italo-Geometric, ca. 725-700 B.Cc. Terracotta

Etruscan antefix in the shape of a female bust with squares and swastikas C.500BC

Etruscan necropolis

 

[Angela]

It works!!! Thank you
So, compare Maria Elena Boschi, politician from the Arezzo area, and the statue of goddess Ariadne (from Arezzo). I find similarities (well, comparing a person to a statue isn't that easy, I know... but the facial structure is similar)

The mouth is off in terms of the Etruscan lady, don't you think? Too big and wide? In the first picture maybe Boschi's face is narrower and her chin is longer? Although, the Etruscan lady is older and heavier so that may account for the fuller face to some degree. I have the same type of face and I can tell you that the weight goes to my face first...very distressing.


Or going back to yesteryear...

I always liked this Etruscan girl, so serious and self possessed:

This one reminds me of her...



Or this one...with a sun bronzed look...


Just click to enlarge the small ones.


This Bronzino is one of my favorite Renaissance portraits...all my aunts had this color hair when they were young...unfortunately it fades so quickly...

Ah well, where is Moesan?

Ed. This one looks like Chiara Francini to me, and she was Tuscan as well, I believe.

 

[Vallicanus]

Boschi is a germanic surname http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Bosch

Boschi merely implies a dweller in the woods.

She looks very Tuscan, and not Langobard in the old Germanic sense.

Genetic testing shows that Tuscans are mainly South European within an Italian cline.

 

[Angela]

Boschi merely implies a dweller in the woods.

She looks very Tuscan, and not Langobard in the old Germanic sense.

Genetic testing shows that Tuscans are mainly South European within an Italian cline.

I wouldn't disagree with your latter statement.

However, what about Elena Boschi strikes you as particularly Tuscan? In contrast to other regions of Italy or the rest of Europe for that matter?

It amazes me that a Scot living in Scotland has such a detailed knowledge of Tuscan phenotypes. Positioned as they are genetically between northern Italians and southern Italians, or even, more precisely, between northern Italians and even central Italians, I've not found that there is one "Tuscan" look. There is a great diversity of phenotype...it's not like some places in northern Europe where there is so much uniformity, you know, and even there, even as a visitor, I can see variation.

In addition to Elena Boschi:

Elena Ricci

Vittoria Puccini:

Valentina Banci:

Chiara Francini: (I just noticed it...doesn't she look a lot like Carice Van Hooten...perhaps someone should inform her she looks unmistakeably Tuscan.

You cannot get more Tuscan than these surnames.

I don't want to give the impression that all Tuscan women are fair, because that's not true. These are just modern actresses whom I know to be Tuscan. I'll have to look up some of the ones from older eras to give a full presentation, because different time periods "promote" certain looks perhaps...

I'm really curious, you think people seeing these women in another part of the world would say...yep...they're definitely Tuscan?

Ed. However, I don't know if anyone else has noticed it, but for whatever reason, Tuscan women do tend to be fairer than the men...

 

[Angela]

I don't want this to turn into a phenotype thread, but...


Francesca Bertini...I already posted her...They had to exaggerate so much in the silent screen era...

Two Tuscan directors...Benigni:

Zeffirelli:

Oriana Fallaci when she was young and not quite so stern...you can look at my avatar for a later version...she got better looking with age, I think.

 

[Angela]

My favorite Tuscan...Puccini...at his piano...

 

[Pax Augusta]

Positioned as they are genetically between northern Italians and southern Italians, or even, more precisely, between northern Italians and even central Italians, I've not found that there is one "Tuscan" look. There is a great diversity of phenotype...it's not like some places in northern Europe where there is so much uniformity, you know, and even there, even as a visitor, I can see variation.

Of course it doesn't exist only one "Tuscan" look. There is a great diversity of phenotypes as in all (hypothetical) ethnic or sub ethnic groups.

Some of them to my eyes look very Tuscan (Boschi including) though. Chiara Francini is extremely typical.

Maria Tucci I don't think she is full Tuscan, probably only 1/4; his father Niccolò was born in Switzerland from a Russian mother and an Italian father. Niccolò married a noble woman of the Rusconi family (mother of Maria). Rusconi are not Tuscan.

Oriana Fallaci had also a typical "Tuscan" face. Vittoria Puccini and Franco Zeffirelli haven't probably the most common faces but they aren't rare.

 

[Pax Augusta]

It deservers a reading.

"Marie-Laurence Haack, The invention of the Etruscan "race". E. Fischer, nazi geneticist, and the Etruscans, Quaderni di storia, 80, luglio-dicembre 2014, p. 251-282".

https://www.academia.edu/8613335/Th..._di_storia_80_luglio-dicembre_2014_p._251-282

How many Nazi geneticists are still around?

A portrait of Eugen Fischer, German professor of medicine, anthropology and eugenics. He was director of the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute of Anthropology, Human Heredity, and Eugenics between 1927 and 1942. He was appointed rector of the Frederick William University of Berlin by Adolf Hitler in 1933, and later joined the Nazi Party.

 

[Vallicanus]

@Angela

The French blogger Herau agrees that Tuscan women are often lighter than the men. See his Tuscany photos in his Anthroeurope site.

 

[Pax Augusta]

@Angela

The French blogger Herau agrees that Tuscan women are often lighter than the men. See his Tuscany photos in his Anthroeurope site.

I have seen that blog. The blogger is even less than an hobbyist, many people in the pics aren't even Italian.

 

[Angela]

Of course it doesn't exist only one "Tuscan" look. There is a great diversity of phenotypes as in all (hypothetical) ethnic or sub ethnic groups.

Some of them to my eyes look very Tuscan (Boschi including) though. Chiara Francini is extremely typical.

Maria Tucci I don't think she is full Tuscan, probably only 1/4; his father Niccolò was born in Switzerland from a Russian mother and an Italian father. Niccolò married a noble woman of the Rusconi family (mother of Maria). Rusconi are not Tuscan.

Oriana Fallaci had also a typical "Tuscan" face. Vittoria Puccini and Franco Zeffirelli haven't probably the most common faces but they aren't rare.

I'll remove Maria Tucci.

I've always thought that a pretty good way to get an idea of the way people "used to" look in specific areas of Italy is to google something like "corteo storico" and add the name of a small town. As here:
https://www.google.com/search?q=Cor...afovideo.it%2Ffoto.php%3Fcat%3DEventi;958;550