Is Turkey a Western country ?

[Angela]

In the case of Humanism and Secularism, Greece is not so popular country, actually all Southern and Eastern European countries.

Our churches are mostly empty...only the tourists and schoolchildren traipse through them, although you can occasionally find a few of the very old. In fact, if you know of a strictly observant young Italian Catholic send me a note...I'd love to meet him or her.

Upon reflection, I don't believe that I've ever known a totally observant Italian Catholic of any age, other than priests and nuns and a few saintly exceptions. I think we invented "cafeteria Catholics". :grin: In fact, meeting a priest on the street was considered bad luck by some. My father, like most Italian men of his generation and place, stopped going to church once he was confirmed at 12 or 13, even though he generally believed in God for most of his life. After that, it was communions, weddings and funerals. When I got married it had been so long that my mother joked the church would fall down about his sacrilegious ears.

In my mother's family, anarchists and partisans almost to a man, half the weddings were only civil unions, because the men refused to have a church service. I once asked my grandmother what she thought about the Pope's stance on birth control. She told me that if the Pope thought it was right that a poor woman should have a dozen children perhaps he should offer to pay to feed them. And this was a woman who had eleven herself, but while she loved them and sacrificed her life for them, she was happy her daughters were born late enough that they didn't have to go through that.

Ever do any reading about the Renaissance in Italy, Palladian Venice, the Naples of the Bourbons? I assure you that even then there was no resemblance to what goes on in Muslim countries even today.

You are misinformed.

 

[Piro Ilir]

you are tottaly wrong, and ignorant who just spread vicious posts,

you can get Greek citizenship, but you not get Greek ιθαγενεια (nativity)
Greece for security reasons has 4 degree of nativity,
it counts only in very high military positions,
as in every country,
for example in USA Arnold (Conan) Terminator Swartz/er can not be president of USA,
so keep causious on what you say,


and Yes we give Greek citizenship to newborn only if one parent is Greek all over the world,
and to newborn in Greece only after the age 20 and if asked,

so since you are an Albanian, and Greece sucks,
and your friends tell you that Greeks are lazy and do not work,
and Greece is a bad country, full of fat people,
WHY YOU ARE INTERESTING IN GREECE?
DO YOU WANT TO BE A GREEK CITIZEN?
OR YOUR FRIENDS, WHO TELL YOU THAT GREECE IS A BAD COUNTRY TO LIVE, but they live, WANT GREEK CITIZENSHIP?

and let me inform you that pure Orthodox in Greece are 13%
there are 11% Greek muslims
6% protestans
11% catholics
and 56% with the new Archbishopy (guess what, the spiritual leader is Arbanitis)
and few other among them polytheists

to build a church or a monsk in Greece needs certain rules,
and it has to do with SEVRES AND LAUSSANE TREATIES FROM WW1, and EGYPT of 1950's
you are so ignorant that you do not know that Greece with ISLAMIC WORLD, has a treaty on churches and monsks,
as long they keep close or made Byzantine churches Islamic temens, from Kars Turk-Armenia, to Alexandreia Egypt, no new monsk in Greece, except the ones of the minority already has and only in Thrace.
EVEN ARABS FROM SAUDI KNOW AND ACCEPT THAT, WHY YOU DID NOT KNEW IT, SINCE YOU KNOW SO MUCH ABOUT GREECE,

but you are so ignorant, so ignorant, just spead vicious posts,

So you comparing Greece with Saudi Arabia which is a completely an anti democratic country [emoji23], and either comparing Greece with other Islamic anti democratic and despotic countries. [emoji23] . So if those Islamic Arabic destroy the churches you are gonna do the same. [emoji23] . All this mean that my post above is right. Agreements with Saudi Arabia, what the hell this mean, for God sake? Your logic is unbelievable. If some Muslim dictatorial countries don't allow to build churches in their countries, Greece have the right to do the same thing with the mosques.
And if some kind of priest in Greece is called Arvanitis this of course is something nice, but it doesn't proof anything.
Forcing people changing names from Ilir to Ilias, or from Gjergj to Jorgos , can't be a part of the western democracies. [emoji19]



And in the end my neighbor: keep calm and enjoy the neighborhood conversation. [emoji23]

 

[Piro Ilir]

Our churches are mostly empty...only the tourists and schoolchildren traipse through them, although you can occasionally find a few of the very old. In fact, if you know of a strictly observant young Italian Catholic send me a note...I'd love to meet him or her.

Upon reflection, I don't believe that I've ever known a totally observant Italian Catholic of any age, other than priests and nuns and a few saintly exceptions. I think we invented "cafeteria Catholics". :grin: In fact, meeting a priest on the street was considered bad luck by some. My father, like most Italian men of his generation and place, stopped going to church once he was confirmed at 12 or 13, even though he generally believed in God for most of his life. After that, it was communions, weddings and funerals. When I got married it had been so long that my mother joked the church would fall down about his sacrilegious ears.

In my mother's family, anarchists and partisans almost to a man, half the weddings were only civil unions, because the men refused to have a church service. I once asked my grandmother what she thought about the Pope's stance on birth control. She told me that if the Pope thought it was right that a poor woman should have a dozen children perhaps he should offer to pay to feed them. And this was a woman who had eleven herself, but while she loved them and sacrificed her life for them, she was happy her daughters were born late enough that they didn't have to go through that.

Ever do any reading about the Renaissance in Italy, Palladian Venice, the Naples of the Bourbons? I assure you that even then there was no resemblance to what goes on in Muslim countries even today.

You are misinformed.

Islam is at least 600 years younger than Christianity. So one day even the mosques will be empty. I hope you are not a islamo phobic [emoji4].

 

[Yetos]

So you comparing Greece with Saudi Arabia which is a completely an anti democratic country [emoji23], and either comparing Greece with other Islamic anti democratic and despotic countries. [emoji23] . So if those Islamic Arabic destroy the churches you are gonna do the same. [emoji23] . All this mean that my post above is right. Agreements with Saudi Arabia, what the hell this mean, for God sake? Your logic is unbelievable. If some Muslim dictatorial countries don't allow to build churches in their countries, Greece have the right to do the same thing with the mosques.
And if some kind of priest in Greece is called Arvanitis this of course is something nice, but it doesn't proof anything.
Forcing people changing names from Ilir to Ilias, or from Gjergj to Jorgos , can't be a part of the western democracies. [emoji19]



And in the end my neighbor: keep calm and enjoy the neighborhood conversation. [emoji23]

you are a total ignorant,
you never came,
simply you hear crup,
your friends tell you such things,
but they live in Greece,
so keep your Albanian for your shelf, and leave my country for me, and to your friends who came,
next are just propaganda,

INTERNATIONAL TREATIES ARE INTERNATIONAL LAWS,
AND IF A TURK LIKE YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND, ASK YOUR AMBASSADORS TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH,

 

[Yetos]

Islam is at least 600 years younger than Christianity. So one day even the mosques will be empty. I hope you are not a islamo phobic [emoji4].

why? are you an Islamo-Lover? or an ISIS/TALIBAN ADMIRER?

cause your country supported those islamo-Fasists as all Fasists in the past.

 

[Boreas]

Our churches are mostly empty...only the tourists and schoolchildren traipse through them, although you can occasionally find a few of the very old. In fact, if you know of a strictly observant young Italian Catholic send me a note...I'd love to meet him or her.

Do you believe that Secularism is about how religious citizen are?

Upon reflection, I don't believe that I've ever known a totally observant Italian Catholic of any age, other than priests and nuns and a few saintly exceptions. I think we invented "cafeteria Catholics". :grin: In fact, meeting a priest on the street was considered bad luck by some.

Cafeteria Catholics Yes, we can't see young hot Polish priest catalogue, but I saw Italian calender about it. However religion in Med-Countries is still extremely strong.

I assure you that even then there was no resemblance to what goes on in Muslim countries even today.

You are misinformed.

I can say samething to you. Same as me, you are just observer. What is source of your ideas about Muslim countries? Was not it coming from what you read, what you watch on TV?

 

[Boreas]

and let me inform you that pure Orthodox in Greece are 13%
there are 11% Greek muslims
6% protestans
11% catholics
and 56% with the new Archbishopy (guess what, the spiritual leader is Arbanitis)
and few other among them polytheists

Could you give source? and please explain arbanitis

to build a church or a monsk in Greece needs certain rules,
and it has to do with SEVRES AND LAUSSANE TREATIES FROM WW1, and EGYPT of 1950's

and what are those rules? I want to learn.

 

[LeBrok]

why? are you an Islamo-Lover? or an ISIS/TALIBAN ADMIRER?

cause your country supported those islamo-Fasists as all Fasists in the past.

Chill down Yetos. Don't put all Muslims and Albanians into a bed with few terrorists and extremists of ISIS and fascists kind.

 

[DuPidh]

why? are you an Islamo-Lover? or an ISIS/TALIBAN ADMIRER?

cause your country supported those islamo-Fasists as all Fasists in the past.

Greece is not a democracy. Its a camouflaged theocracy. Not to much difference from Iranian regime. In Iran govern the mullahs. In Greece the orthodox priests. The west has always tolerated Greece because of its antiquity. But democracy in Greece is an illusion. Albania on the other hand is cleptocracy.

 

[LeBrok]

Greece is not a democracy. Its a camouflaged theocracy. Not to much difference from Iranian regime. In Iran govern the mullahs. In Greece the orthodox priests. The west has always tolerated Greece because of its antiquity. But democracy in Greece is an illusion. Albania on the other hand is cleptocracy.

I think you are crossing the fine line between criticizing to ethnic slanders. Watch out.
Do you really think Greek Orthodox Church appointed communists to Greek government?

PS. Your IP address doesn't match your flag, though it should.

 

[Ike]

and what are those rules? I want to learn.

These are the rules for Europe:

- mosk architecture has to be European, and no minarets
- no Arabic letters anywhere, only Greek (or other local - Latin, Cyrillic)
- mass and other rituals have to be in local language (Greek, German, Spanish, etc) no Arabic allowed
- no Arabic flag or their colors, emblems, etc.
- no priest singing in Arabic to be heard outside of the mosk
- no quarter tone or other non European music scales
- no contact with any Arabian secret service or other Islamic religious center or university

Once Arabs abide to these rules we can talk some more.

 

[Yetos]

Could you give source? and please explain arbanitis and what are those rules? I want to learn.

except the exchange of population, certain religious affairs were also as laws, for example, Churges will be open only in Imbros Tenedos islands Con/polis area Monsks will be open to surve the Greek Islamic minority only in Western Thrace. All monsks in Greece will be in Arabic not in Turkish, orthodox Patriarch must be a Turkish citizen born in Turkey (the one now is the last probably for ever) licences from state to make a religious ritual in every religious place that is a museum (temple of Ahmet Pasha, church of Saint Voukolos (Βουκολου) in Smyrna for example the temens in Makedonia like Vagiazit holy tekke or Serres Ahmet Pasha, or the churches in Pontos, etc with Egypt entrance of African shwahili, loss of many churches in Egypt, no Egyptian monsk or religious things in Greece, until the return of properties etc etc

 

[Piro Ilir]

Greece is not a democracy. Its a camouflaged theocracy. Not to much difference from Iranian regime. In Iran govern the mullahs. In Greece the orthodox priests. The west has always tolerated Greece because of its antiquity. But democracy in Greece is an illusion. Albania on the other hand is cleptocracy.

Mostly agree with you. But is right to mention that the small Greek minority in Albania has all the human rights there.

 

[Piro Ilir]

These are the rules for Europe:

- mosk architecture has to be European, and no minarets
- no Arabic letters anywhere, only Greek (or other local - Latin, Cyrillic)
- mass and other rituals have to be in local language (Greek, German, Spanish, etc) no Arabic allowed
- no Arabic flag or their colors, emblems, etc.
- no priest singing in Arabic to be heard outside of the mosk
- no quarter tone or other non European music scales
- no contact with any Arabian secret service or other Islamic religious center or university

Once Arabs abide to these rules we can talk some more.

And you you think that those rules have anything to do with democracy!? ... Unbelievable. And what about Albanian language, or it's not allowed on the mosques too [emoji23].

 

[Piro Ilir]

you are a total ignorant,
you never came,
simply you hear crup,
your friends tell you such things,
but they live in Greece,
so keep your Albanian for your shelf, and leave my country for me, and to your friends who came,
next are just propaganda,

INTERNATIONAL TREATIES ARE INTERNATIONAL LAWS,
AND IF A TURK LIKE YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND, ASK YOUR AMBASSADORS TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH,

Albanians are living in Greece because they need to work and to feed their children. Albania was not helped by USA and German money like was helped Greece on the past. No foreign power gave it money and economic help to Albania as already did with Greece. That's why Greece is economically better than Albania. Albania is a poor country, but Europe care only about Greece because they think that there is some connection between today Greeks and ancient hellenes, which is false in reality. And all Albanians probably have told me the truth. Why they should lying to me. I think Greece is some kind of extremist Greek- orthodox state . The Greek church is powerful in Greece. They interfere in the state issues.

 

[Piro Ilir]

why? are you an Islamo-Lover? or an ISIS/TALIBAN ADMIRER?

cause your country supported those islamo-Fasists as all Fasists in the past.

What the hell are you talking about here. [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] . What islamo- fascist you are talking here? By all the polls the Albanian population is the more pro NATO ,pro USA and pro EU compared to other people. Everyone is free to check if they want. During the visit of president Clinton in Greece, the Greek protesters were burning the American flag in squares of Athens and on the squares of thessaloniki. All we know that the Greeks hate USA and Germany. Greeks are the most pro Russian people of Europe.
Did I look here like a ISIS or Taliban lover?! This kind of Greek propaganda against other ethnicities maybe was useful and productive on the past, but today no-one is gonna believe this. Europe is stopping to indulge the Greeks .
Burning the American flag ,in my opinion is the same, as burning the symbol of the freedom. You need to try a little more if you want to have a better product by your propaganda. Body, when I worked on American embassy and for the American army, your compatriots were burning the USA flag throughout Greece.


[emoji631] [emoji629] [emoji562]

 

[Ike]

And you you think that those rules have anything to do with democracy!? ...Unbelievable.

As I've already said numerous times here - I don't care about democratic tyranny.

And what about Albanian language, or it's not allowed on the mosques too [emoji23].

If they are in Albania then it's not only allowed but desirable.

What the hell are you talking about here. [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] . What islamo- fascist you are talking here? By all the polls the Albanian population is the more pro NATO ,pro USA and pro EU compared to other people. Everyone is free to check if they want. During the visit of president Clinton in Greece, the Greek protesters were burning the American flag in squares of Athens and on the squares of thessaloniki. All we know that the Greeks hate USA and Germany. Greeks are the most pro Russian people of Europe.

He is probably talking about you. We know that CIA is on to destroy an Orthodox church, and it's using Albanians in that project. Off course you love America, when it pumps in a ton of money and gives you a military aid to make your fascist dreams come true.

 

[DuPidh]

I think you are crossing the fine line between criticizing to ethnic slanders. Watch out.
Do you really think Greek Orthodox Church appointed communists to Greek government?

PS. Your IP address doesn't match your flag, though it should.

Yeah! I do have connections with the area and I know the region. I mentioned it in my previous posts. But a country that has a law that mandates being an orthodox if you want Greek citizenship is not a theocracy according to you? Democracy is more than multiparty system. Iran is a multiparty country as well. Its true according to historical evidence that democracy was born probably in Greece but died long ago.
In Europe France and England are real democracies. Germany is a mixture of democracy and respect for the law. In other countries democracy is in the nascent stage. Democracy is a level a maturity in the society that tolerates other cultures.

 

[Yetos]

Albanians are living in Greece because they need to work and to feed their children. Albania was not helped by USA and German money like was helped Greece on the past. No foreign power gave it money and economic help to Albania as already did with Greece. That's why Greece is economically better than Albania. Albania is a poor country, but Europe care only about Greece because they think that there is some connection between today Greeks and ancient hellenes, which is false in reality. And all Albanians probably have told me the truth. Why they should lying to me. I think Greece is some kind of extremist Greek- orthodox state . The Greek church is powerful in Greece. They interfere in the state issues.

you are funny,
go tell these trash to others,

DOCTOR'S DAUGHTER HAS 8% JP MORGAN,
Lazaret gains for decades billions of EU,
second country in Europe in water precipitation ans is poor? or the known case with doctor and the water-plants on which I also worked, (yes)
First country in Europe in Silver deposits, with many many other minerals!!!
and you expect me to believe you?

All Albanians who came to Greece for work, they say the oposite, and how ugly Fasistic Albania is,
All who came to steal and robberies and sell drugs, or to gain citizenship to go to another country, failed, and go back in Albania and tell stories,
and besides, WE NEVER ASK YOU TO COME, SO GO BACK TO YOUR COUNTRY, IF YOU DO NOT LIKE,
WE DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOUR OPINION, AND WE NOT LISTEN TO YOU, TO MAKE OUR COUNTRY ALBANIA, THE LAND OF DAESH JIHADISTS

SO KEEP YOUR IDEAS AND YOUR CRUP THEORIES ABOUT YOUR COUNTRY,

and in Greece I can go outside a church and scream
I am a Muslim
I am a Polytheist
I am a Gay
even F**** your God who ever he is,

try to go to Kossovo Tettovo and say these things?

 

[Yetos]

What the hell are you talking about here. [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] . What islamo- fascist you are talking here? By all the polls the Albanian population is the more pro NATO ,pro USA and pro EU compared to other people. Everyone is free to check if they want. During the visit of president Clinton in Greece, the Greek protesters were burning the American flag in squares of Athens and on the squares of thessaloniki. All we know that the Greeks hate USA and Germany. Greeks are the most pro Russian people of Europe.
Did I look here like a ISIS or Taliban lover?! This kind of Greek propaganda against other ethnicities maybe was useful and productive on the past, but today no-one is gonna believe this. Europe is stopping to indulge the Greeks .
Burning the American flag ,in my opinion is the same, as burning the symbol of the freedom. You need to try a little more if you want to have a better product by your propaganda. Body, when I worked on American embassy and for the American army, your compatriots were burning the USA flag throughout Greece.


[emoji631] [emoji629] [emoji562]

come on,
you say to us, and accuse us that we are islamo-Phobic,
I ask you, are you an Islamo-Fasists lover? as the 500 Albanians in DAESH?