Free and independent Kurdistan is coming soon.

[Boreas]

Did Turkey government ever lied?

Could you give an example a country which doesn't lie? I lost my patriotism during Gezi protest

Why you are singling out the West? We should trust Chinese, Russians, Turks, Arabs, ISIS, etc, and the rest of the world.

There is an idiom about that; same shit but in different colour.

In some circumstances you can include Israel as the West, in some you shouldn't. It is not black and white issue.

There is no black and white. everyone is grey. Just some speacial nonphysical words can be pure white such as goodness

It is hard to guess who is who in this Syrian mess.

I agree.

Are these boy looking like from ISIS?

no, Free Syrian Army

 

[LeBrok]

Could you give an example a country which doesn't lie? I lost my patriotism during Gezi protest

In this case you shouldn't single out the West as not trustworthy.
Even if West lies or is misled by others it doesn't mean it supports its own enemies. That would be terribly stupid.
Actions are more important than words, and look, we are bombing ISIS everywhere. More than Saudis or Turks, or other Near Eastern countries. Also material and logistic help is extended to Iraqis and Kurds. On top of it we accept many refugees of this conflict to our countries, or send humanitarian help to refugee comps. I think it counts more than conspiracy theories alluding to the contrary.

 

[Boreas]

In this case you shouldn't single out the West as not trustworthy.

Why, because you are western or western is more civilizated? Western or Eastern, if it is good, it is good; if it is evil, it is evil.

Even if West lies or is misled by others it doesn't mean it supports its own enemies. That would be terribly stupid.

History is full with friends and allies who turn enemies after interest conflict.

Actions are more important than words, and look, we are bombing ISIS everywhere. More than Saudis or Turks, or other Near Eastern countries. Also material and logistic help is extended to Iraqis and Kurds. On top of it we accept many refugees of this conflict to our countries, or send humanitarian help to refugee comps. I think it counts more than conspiracy theories alluding to the contrary.

and Saudis bombing Yemen, more then you or how many times ISIS attack Turkey and how many times PKK attacks Turkey in this summer do you have any idea? If you don't, of course you won't understand why Turkey bombing PKK more then ISIS or you won't understand why I am seeing 3 times more policemen in my street, a clue: not for ISIS threat.

I think don't talk about accepting refugees, you won't want me to do it.

What do you think Free Syrian Army supporter at the begining of the civil war?

Who is the biggest economical partner of Iraq Kurdistan?

Everyone see own puzzle part

 

[bicicleur 2]

In this case you shouldn't single out the West as not trustworthy.
Even if West lies or is misled by others it doesn't mean it supports its own enemies. That would be terribly stupid.
Actions are more important than words, and look, we are bombing ISIS everywhere. More than Saudis or Turks, or other Near Eastern countries. Also material and logistic help is extended to Iraqis and Kurds. On top of it we accept many refugees of this conflict to our countries, or send humanitarian help to refugee comps. I think it counts more than conspiracy theories alluding to the contrary.

but sometimes you shoot in your own foot

Saudi Arabia has allways been a respected ally, yet they are the main funders of radical islam

and now the deal between Nato and Turkey, I think someone is shooting in his own foot again

 

[LeBrok]

Why, because you are western or western is more civilizated? Western or Eastern, if it is good, it is good; if it is evil, it is evil.

Ok, so are all the civilizations evil, there is no one good?

History is full with friends and allies who turn enemies after interest conflict.

Yes, but they were friends one time, and in this period they helped each other, not when they were enemies. West didn't help Al Qaeda or ISIS. US helped friends Mujaheddins, who later turned Al Qaeda and declared war on the West.

and Saudis bombing Yemen, more then you or how many times ISIS attack Turkey and how many times PKK attacks Turkey in this summer do you have any idea? If you don't, of course you won't understand why Turkey bombing PKK more then ISIS or you won't understand why I am seeing 3 times more policemen in my street, a clue: not for ISIS threat.

The original question was if Turkey are bombing ISIS at all and are the sympathetic to them? We know that Turkey is very afraid of Free Kurdistan. We can see it through their actions.

I think don't talk about accepting refugees, you won't want me to do it.

No idea why?

What do you think Free Syrian Army supporter at the begining of the civil war?

There was no one Free Syrian Army, there were many fractions.

Who is the biggest economical partner of Iraq Kurdistan?

Who?

 

[LeBrok]

but sometimes you shoot in your own foot

Yes, but this is a mistake and not an action with intentions.

Saudi Arabia has allways been a respected ally, yet they are the main funders of radical islam

It shouldn't be tolerated, the main problem is education and ideology which they spread in their founded mosques and madrasas. I'm not sure who is financing this, government or some private foundations or rich families?

and now the deal between Nato and Turkey, I think someone is shooting in his own foot again

Not helping Kurds is a mistake. Their might be a better friend of the West than Turkey.

 

[Boreas]

Ok, so are all the civilizations evil, there is no one good?

I don't prefer call the entire civilization evil or good. As I said, everone is grey

Yes, but they were friends one time, and in this period they helped each other, not when they were enemies. West didn't help Al Qaeda or ISIS. US helped friends Mujaheddins, who later turned Al Qaeda and declared war on the West.

but you were friends one time

We know that Turkey is very afraid of Free Kurdistan. We can see it through their actions.

England is afraid of free Sctoish , isn't it? Spain banned the freedom election in Catalania didn't it? I don't think that any counrty loves it

No idea why?

Who?

Are you really that much lazy? Just google it. Turkey has more then 1.7 million Syrian refugees, but you can be proud and say "we accept many refugees of this conflict to our countries" please tell me how many thounsand you have?

There was no one Free Syrian Army, there were many fractions.

Does it change anything?

Kurds and Iraq(just Shia part left) are just defending own borders. They don't have capacity to take ISIS capital Rakka. Without support of Sunni Arabs there is no chance to defeat ISIS

 

[Yetos]

So should have Greeks. they have committed atrocities in their Greek-Turkish war and in Albania. I guess there is no justice in this world!

come on from 1780 we got tired of you,
from the battle of kolokotronis after Orlov's revolt,
till 1940 and Paramythia Salouka's case

you got tired of you,

2 out of 5 accidentlt died, in car accident,
come on,
GODS UPON US SEE EVERYTHING,

EVEN AT WW2 YOU FIGHT AS ALLY WITH GERMANS AND ITALIANS AGAINST GREECE, AND WE THROW YOU BACK TO ΑΥΛΩΝΑ (ΑVLONA)
AND CAME WITH Xylia and slain the greeks in the villages of Paramythia,

But Gods are mercyfull, and repay back,
soon you will have the Big Kossova, instead of Big Albania

 

[LeBrok]

I don't prefer call the entire civilization evil or good. As I said, everone is grey. I can understand you better now and I agree. This singling out Western Block for evil thing, took me on a wrong path.

but you were friends one time

Sure, but more like alleys. Like friendship of Soviets and US during WW2. Once a party declares war on other, the "friendship" is over.

England is afraid of free Sctoish , isn't it?

I think most of English don't care if Scots stay in Union or not. It was Scots decision to stay. Quebec (french part of Canada) voted to stay in Canada too. They exercised their choice. Northern Ireland did their voting too. This is how it should be in a free world. You want to stay you stay, you want to go you should be allowed to go.
It should be the same in case of Kurds.
I believe that in the future, when Turkey is more "Westernized = free", Kurds will have their own referendum of independence.
There is also an alternative scenario that ISIS rips Turkey appart like they did with Syria and Iraq, and Kurds will separate without much of resistance from non-existing Turkish government.

Spain banned the freedom election in Catalania didn't it?

It would be a news for me. Perhaps one of our Spanish friends would want to enlighten us on this issue?

Are you really that much lazy? Just google it. Turkey has more then 1.7 million Syrian refugees, but you can be proud and say "we accept many refugees of this conflict to our countries" please tell me how many thounsand you have?

I don't think Turkey had a choice. Syrians just crossed the border and Turkey had to accept it. I don't think Turkey invited them, did it? Anyhow, Turkey should be thanked for helping them.
On other hand Canada accepts 300,000 emigrants and refugees, as permanent citizens, a year from around the world, Muslims included. Pretty much by invitations only.
Anyway we help too:

Does it change anything?

Kurds and Iraq(just Shia part left) are just defending own borders. They don't have capacity to take ISIS capital Rakka. Without support of Sunni Arabs there is no chance to defeat ISIS

Probably you are right about involving Sunni Arabs to defeat ISIS. However, the good news these days is that ISIS is not expending anymore. The bombing campaign destroyed their heavy equipment or they hid it away and can't use, and paralyzed movement of troops. All they could muster recently was suicidal attacks on Kobane and one Iraqi city (forgot the name), Kurds held on but Iraqis run away leaving equipment. There is no Daesh offensive anymore. I'm sure from now on they will only retreat. We need to send more heavy weapons to Kurds, the best fighters against Daesh.

 

[Boreas]

I think most of English don't care if Scots stay in Union or not. It was Scots decision to stay. Quebec (french part of Canada) voted to stay in Canada too. They exercised their choice. Northern Ireland did their voting too. This is how it should be in a free world. You want to stay you stay, you want to go you should be allowed to go.
It should be the same in case of Kurds.

I don't think English don't agree. I ruled great anti-campain about that.

What about Crimea and East Ukraine will you give that chance to them too.

I believe that in the future, when Turkey is more "Westernized = free", Kurds will have their own referendum of independence.

Do you think majority will want to be independent?

Probably you are right about involving Sunni Arabs to defeat ISIS. However, the good news these days is that ISIS is not expending anymore. The bombing campaign destroyed their heavy equipment or they hid it away and can't use, and paralyzed movement of troops. All they could muster recently was suicidal attacks on Kobane and one Iraqi city (forgot the name), Kurds held on but Iraqis run away leaving equipment. There is no Daesh offensive anymore. I'm sure from now on they will only retreat. We need to send more heavy weapons to Kurds, the best fighters against Daesh.

Without peaceful independent process, there is no way to live Free Kurdistan. Shia Baghdat goverment will quickly go to Russia and Iran side. Turkey can be more Eurasian and interested in with Russia.

In that case Free Kurdistan will be surrendered by Russian allies and be isolated island

North and West Turkey
Southwest Assad's Syria
South Shia Iraq
East Armenia and Iran

and no access to sea

 

[bicicleur 2]

I don't think Turkey had a choice. Syrians just crossed the border and Turkey had to accept it. I don't think Turkey invited them, did it? Anyhow, Turkey should be thanked for helping them.
On other hand Canada accepts 300,000 emigrants and refugees, as permanent citizens, a year from around the world, Muslims included. Pretty much by invitations only.
Anyway we help too:

this picture shows the hipocrisy of human rights organisations

this is how 1.7 million refugees live in Turkey

those who make it to Europe and ask for asylum are supposed to get shelter and food for free, the children are entitled to get an education at school

if only 1 refugee who applied for asylum in Europe would live like these people, the government gets law suits from all kinds of organisations that claim to defend the refugees
more than 80 % of the asylum seekers are lying about their identity and about their refugee situation
those who claim to defend refugees obsruct a solution for the real genuine refugees

 

[bicicleur 2]

Yes, but this is a mistake and not an action with intentions.

It shouldn't be tolerated, the main problem is education and ideology which they spread in their founded mosques and madrasas. I'm not sure who is financing this, government or some private foundations or rich families?

Not helping Kurds is a mistake. Their might be a better friend of the West than Turkey.

I suppose the Saudi Arabian funders of radical Islam are not the government themselves, but they are rich and powerfull families with close ties to the Saudi gevernement.

Turkey has a powerfull army and a very strategic location. That is why NATO allways wants to stay friend with Turkey, but I think there are plenty of signs that you cannot trust Erdogan, and if they are to leniant with Turkey, Turkey could turn into one of the worst ennemies.

 

[Boreas]

this picture shows the hipocrisy of human rights organisations

this is how 1.7 million refugees live in Turkey

those who make it to Europe and ask for asylum are supposed to get shelter and food for free, the children are entitled to get an education at school

if only 1 refugee who applied for asylum in Europe would live like these people, the government gets law suits from all kinds of organisations that claim to defend the refugees
more than 80 % of the asylum seekers are lying about their identity and about their refugee situation
those who claim to defend refugees obsruct a solution for the real genuine refugees

Hoping same quality aid for refugees is something like that

And my fault, the number has already reached 2 million.


Not all camps like that.

Everything would be great, if the other countries who promised aid, have sent that much aid

 

[Alan]

You said, you will, but I didn't

You are the prime example of the headlessness of the Turkish society no wonder your government can play you like a football ball.

I post a video showing ISIS fighters with an ISIS flag on their Shirts. And you tell me I didn't? Are you aware that tro lling is a reason for ban?

so let me show it to you again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGIT32I6Kgw

There are documents in the hands of the US that proves Turkey is aiding ISIS.

vice president Biden confirmed this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLYTG2kCUu0

All Western Block supported ISIS as they supported Al-Qaeda in Afghan-Sovvet War.

No they don't if you claim something provide sources otherwise you are simply being a liar. You claim I didn't prove anything and you think you have proven something just be a simple statement serious?

And Alqaida wasn't "build" by the West. The Mujahedeen were the defense forces of the Afghan vs the Sowiet occupation. From those Taliban the Al Qaida cells emerged. years later. What the US did was provide the Mujahedeen (what was the official front against the Soviets) with weapons. Decade later the virus called Bin Laden who was fighting for the Mujahedeen took the power and radicalized the group.






Thanks for the insult. Who is angry?

Talking from Germany is very easy.

The mighty warriors who feel powerfull in their own country attacking Kurdish civilians with Police assistance talks about "easy". It's easy talking big from Turkey while you know the state is behind you and can arrest and torture any Kurd if needed. Germany is neutral zone so how is it easy to talk here? Ah I understand it is easy cause no one is there to assist you. Is this the reason why no Turkish racist here in Germany dares to open his dirty mouth or attack civilians, cause there is no Police to look for their back? I know Turks more racist and some non racist both know my political stands those who have a problem with it, it's their problem. I am by far not the big PKK supporter but even I see that this conflict is Turkeys fault.

Be mature, think wisely, not from your religious or ethnic perspective.

You are the one who act like an angry monkey.

You're a joke dude.

The area is just battle field of two axis of world, Kurds, Yezidi, Arabs or Turkmens are nothing.

Tell your stories someone else. WHo is the real target of Turkey is clearly visible to anyone who isn't blind.

At the begining of the War, West directly supported rebels in Syria. However Turkey tried to make dialog with Assad which is the only good policy of Erdoğan in Syria case.

Your whole argumentation is a joke so I am not going deeper into this, cause I remember Erdogans 180 degree face change towards Assad. And I quite frankly remember from were this all starter.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...n-so-deep-that-he-would-court-terrorists.html

even they didn't do anything about no-fly zone in Syria wish of Turkey which could prevent massive immigration waves.

Official Turkish version. Just like Turkish government claimed allot of things which turned out wrong. Man all your arguments are just a big joke.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/27/world/turkey-isis-us/

CNN)Ahead of a hastily called NATO meeting, a senior Obama administration official told CNN on Monday there is no agreement with Turkey to establish a no-fly zone in the country.But, the official said, Turkey has granted the U.S. access to its air bases to push back ISIS militants, so essentially that arrangement creates "nearly the same effect" as a no-fly zone.

Now after the election in 7th June, new goverment can't be set up. During the all this time PKK accused HPD not being enough tough and made aggresive explanations all time and now they broke the ceasefire.

Look, wake up from your dream world, or just stop quoting me. No one believes your lies anymore. Everyone knows who started this. Everyone knows why it started. Let me remind 30 young Students were killed with a bomb planted by turkish police supported ISIS. And those Turkish soldiers who are "not able" to catch heavily armored ISIS from entering ISIS can easily see when a little children with his mother tries to cross into Turkey and shoot them? Tell your jokes somewhere else.

Keep your words for the family of Kurdish who died because of PKK attack in his millitary service.

As a guy who vote for Kurd-Left block in Turkey, I am feeling deep regret. They don't stand a violence when it come from Kurds as they did against state violence, against Erdoğan.

SInce all world knows it is always Kurds dying not Turks. Since the government rather uses the poor youth than their own.
Using people of the same folk against each other was always the way you did it.




Janissaries, Kurdish troops in Egypt/Sudan against Napoleon and in Hungary.

current Turkish chief of Staff is a Kurdish traitor allot of Generals are Kurdish traitors. Head of Turkish secret service (MIT) is a Kurdish traitor.

The mighty "Turks". I am waiting for the day NATO puts you aside. So much racism and oppression one day it will end.

 

[Alan]

what really matters is not how many Kurds live in Turkey, but how many Kurds live in the areas where Kurds are majority. If let say 3 million Kurds live in Istambul they are simply a statistic because they will not get anything political from what other people in the area have. It also matters how many Kurds want independence or autonomy because I am sure there is a part of Kurdish population that has good life under Turkish regime.
But my guess is that in the areas where Kurds are majority it could be at best 10 million Kurds. You will never take areas where Kurds are less than 50%.

Do you know that Istanbul among the citieswhere the Kurdish parties get most votes? Since when does it matter where the Kurds live if the question was " how high is the Kurdish poulation in Turkey."

I didn't knew cities such as Ankara and Istanbul are not part of Turkey anymore?

 

[Alan]

That is a big Truth,

when I was saying that DAESH easily found modern military equipment,
while other Arab rabels in Arab spring did not,
when I was talking that Arab spring was a guided action,
nobody believe me,
thank you,
cause at least one more in Forum know many of behind the scenes,
your above state has a big part of truth

Absolutely nothing was found by Daesh. We have video material from Turkish anti AKP TV showing how trucks full of equipment were sent to ISIS. US has documents proving it, just last year Cameron from Britain even said they have documents proving Turkeys involvement with ISIS. In Iraq they got their weapons from the Iraqi Army. Did you know that Mosul had the second biggest military base before the Iraqi Army left it for Daesh.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2811338/Oh-lovely-war-Remarkable-video-shows-ISIS-fighter-strolling-right-Turkish-border-checkpoint-relaxing-chat-guards.html

A recent video released on YouTube by local news channels in Turkey, is being hailed as a clear evidence of Ankara sharing close ties with ISIS militants.

 

[Alan]

Erdogan : "PKK is the same as ISIS"

http://www.dailysabah.com/politics/2014/10/04/erdogan-pkk-isis-same-for-turkey

We know that Turkey had a peace process with PKK we know that they had negotiations with them. So if ISIS is the same for Turkey, what does that tell us?

Mystery surrounds the surprise release of 49 Turkish diplomats and their families held captive for three months by Isis. The Turkish government is denying any deal with the hostage-takers, making it unclear why Isis, notorious for its cruelty and ruthlessness, should hand over its Turkish prisoners on Saturday without a quid pro quo.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-surprise-release-of-49-hostages-9747394.html

Islamic State (Isis) has launched an attack on the Syrian border town of Kobani from Turkey for the first time, a Kurdish official and activists said.
The assault began with a suicide attack by a bomber in an armoured vehicle on the border crossing between Kobani and Turkey, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights (SOHR), a UK-based opposition group, said.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/29/isis-attack-kobani-inside-turkey-first-time

The evidences are suffocating

 

[Alan]

Kurds and Iraq(just Shia part left) are just defending own borders. They don't have capacity to take ISIS capital Rakka. Without support of Sunni Arabs there is no chance to defeat ISIS

SInce when was it in interest of Kurds to "conquer" land outside their homeland? Do you think the Sunni Arabs will like to be under Kurdish rule? And while being on it if Iraq and our dear neighbors Turkey and Iran wouldn't be complaining about us getting more than just some Milans and few other light weapons because of their ownj fear. ISIS wouldn't be around the corner anymore. But it's always easy to hold back a group while in parallel claim they can't or don't do anything.

The goal of Kurds was always to secure their own borders and they were pretty successfull in this with their few equipment.

 

[LeBrok]

I don't think English don't agree. I ruled great anti-campain about that.

What about Crimea and East Ukraine will you give that chance to them too.

Yes, this is a thread I started:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...ependent-country-(Russian-Ukrainian-conflict)

Do you think majority will want to be independent?

I don't need to think about this, I give people a chance to decide for themselve.

Without peaceful independent process, there is no way to live Free Kurdistan. Shia Baghdat goverment will quickly go to Russia and Iran side. Turkey can be more Eurasian and interested in with Russia.

In that case Free Kurdistan will be surrendered by Russian allies and be isolated island

It won't be easy, and many dictatorial countries don't like the idea of Kurdistan.

North and West Turkey
Southwest Assad's Syria
South Shia Iraq
East Armenia and Iran

and no access to sea

That's ok, Switzerland is a construct of few ethnic groups, no access to the see, just mountains, and is peaceful and richest country in Europe.

 

[LeBrok]

Hoping same quality aid for refugees is something like that


And my fault, the number has already reached 2 million.


Not all camps like that.

Everything would be great, if the other countries who promised aid, have sent that much aid

Great camp, probably the best of all I've seen.