Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[Excine]

FYI: the non radiocarbon dating is not just restricted on male samples but also female ones. Apart from seeing amateurs using flawed tools such a G25 and based on that making conclusions, all of the averages in regards to West Balkan samples are falsified since they do entail misdated Slavic/"South" Slavic samples which put them further east (and south east).

HRV_Cetina, Alb_Cinamak, MNE_LBA have no such samples either way. Check them yourself and stop spreading misinformation when you have no knowledge about these subjects. It's getting ridiculous that you're now calling Illyrian tribes non-Illyrian because Albanians are close to them.

It also shows your true motives and intentions, so it's great that you're exposing yourself

 

[Fustan]

HRV_Cetina, Alb_Cinamak, MNE_LBA have no such samples either way. Check them yourself and stop spreading misinformation when you have no knowledge about these subjects. It's getting ridiculous that you're now calling Illyrian tribes non-Illyrian because Albanians are close to them.

It also shows your true motives and intentions, so it's great that you're exposing yourself ������

The Neo-Illyrian thought he could come and save another stupid theory for the day.

 

[Excine]

The Neo-Illyrian thought he could come and save another stupid theory for the day.

The "neo-Illyrian" is so pathetic that he thought he could insinuate that ALB_Cinamak isn't really Illyrian but has Slavic samples and that this would go unreplied.

All of this is very good. It's always great when anti-Albanian troll accounts expose themselves

 

[Hawk]

Are you now quoting Elena Kocaqi who thinks that Caesar is Illyrian-Trojan-Albanian? lol


The Amantini were an Illyrian tribe in the vicinity of Sirmium. There is a sample from this group:

Distance to: HUN_IA_SyrmianSremGroup:I18259
0.01987289 ALBÇinamak_Anc
0.02262380 HRV_BA
0.02284279 MNE_LBA
0.02605086 HRV_EIA
0.02660368 HRV_Cetina_BA
0.02674534 MKD_Anc
0.02923910 SRB_BA
0.02934967 HRV_MBA
0.02964210 SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros_oAegean
0.02980277 HRV_LIA_La_Tene
0.03029177 HUN_LBA_EIA
0.03152147 HUN_La_Tene
0.03239642 HRV_Pop_CA
0.03248031 GRC_Logkas_MBA
0.03302279 HRV_IA
0.03434449 ITA_Etruscan
0.03451836 CZE_LBA_Knoviz_o3
0.03466171 HRV_Anc
0.03516561 ALB_PostMdv
0.03594825 ALB_Mdv
0.03628972 MKD_BA
0.03657524 HRV_IA
0.03702245 SRB_IA
0.03741418 HRV_Bezdanjača_BA

Genetics align themselves perfectly with the ancient sources. They can't be more Illyrian than that.

I already know what Elena Kocaqi thinks and exaggerate, i put in quotation and specifically remarked that. She has tendencies on the contrary, trying to make Illyrian-Pelasgian everything hence why i was surprised why she claimed Amantini to be Thracian in origin. Nevertheless, not something i care too much.

So, i asked you two times but you keep ignoring me.

EV-13 is from Zezaks of Ulqin:

https://lefteast.org/only-memories-...lcinjs-afro-albanian-community-in-montenegro/

Why you are so dull and ghost when people insult "your personal lineage", and go completely cold-turkey/over-emotional when it comes to J2b2-L283?

What's your opinion on the above quotation?

 

[torzio]

There's no such thing as "Pannonians". It's a geographic term and can mean from Illyrian Pannonian to Celtic Pannonian in the north.

The Amantini were an Illyrian tribe. This is what all ancient and modern sources say and what their genetics show.

Are you now just flat out claiming that Illyrians weren't Illyrians with 0 proof?

Distance to: HUN_IA_SyrmianSremGroup:I18259
0.01987289 ALBÇinamak_Anc
0.02262380 HRV_BA
0.02284279 MNE_LBA
0.02605086 HRV_EIA
0.02660368 HRV_Cetina_BA
0.02674534 MKD_Anc
0.02923910 SRB_BA
0.02934967 HRV_MBA
0.02964210 SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros_oAegean
0.02980277 HRV_LIA_La_Tene
0.03029177 HUN_LBA_EIA
0.03152147 HUN_La_Tene
0.03239642 HRV_Pop_CA
0.03248031 GRC_Logkas_MBA
0.03302279 HRV_IA
0.03434449 ITA_Etruscan
0.03451836 CZE_LBA_Knoviz_o3
0.03466171 HRV_Anc
0.03516561 ALB_PostMdv
0.03594825 ALB_Mdv
0.03628972 MKD_BA
0.03657524 HRV_IA
0.03702245 SRB_IA
0.03741418 HRV_Bezdanjača_BA

Illyrian tribes in the 1st-2nd centuries CE:

this map must be 150AD with some of the names that appear ...............where did you get this map ..........

 

[Fustan]

Why you are so dull and ghost when people insult "your personal lineage", and go completely cold-turkey/over-emotional when it comes to J2b2-L283?

What's your opinion on the above quotation?

No offense but you seem to be not only super emotional, but also super insecure about your Y-DNA. Proper men can make fun of something as trivial as their haplogroup without throwing a hissy fit. I've made plenty of jokes about J2b2 (taken into Europe as leashed dogs by Indo European R1b people) among my friends because they're just jokes, and everybody understands that, unlike insecure and emotional people.

 

[Hawk]

No offense but you seem to be not only super emotional, but also super insecure about your Y-DNA. Proper men can make fun of something as trivial as their haplogroup without throwing a hissy fit. I've made plenty of jokes about J2b2 (taken into Europe as leashed dogs by Indo European R1b people) among my friends because they're just jokes, and everybody understands that, unlike insecure and emotional people.

I asked him a very explicit question. I am trying to understand him better.

Don't play the "tough guy" now. Pordhave tua ju vjen era prej larg. Folirant.

 

[Fustan]

I asked him a very explicit question. I am trying to understand him better.

Don't play the "tough guy" now. Pordhave tua ju vjen era prej larg. Folirant.

And you continue on with another emotional reply to a completely calm response you got. Hope whatever has happened in your life gets better.

 

[Excine]

I already know what Elena Kocaqi thinks and exaggerate, i put in quotation and specifically remarked that. She has tendencies on the contrary, trying to make Illyrian-Pelasgian everything hence why i was surprised why she claimed Amantini to be Thracian in origin. Nevertheless, not something i care too much.

So, i asked you two times but you keep ignoring me.



Why you are so dull and ghost when people insult "your personal lineage", and go completely cold-turkey/over-emotional when it comes to J2b2-L283?

What's your opinion on the above quotation?

See Hawk, "zezaks from Ulqin" is complete trolling nonsense, so how should I respond? That it's not true? I don't bother to engage in such trolling.

If he attempted to post and explain that E-V13 is from Anatolia or Africa in order to convince someone, he would receive the same response 100x as the "neo-Illyrian" troll gets. I do not choose haplogroups that I prefer. Mes shqiptareve, t'gjitha t'njejta jane per mu: shqiptare. Many of your ancestors were J-L283, and the same is true for J-L283 Albanians, who have many E-V13 ancestors. Only trolls and those with ulterior motives are incapable of comprehending this.

Haplogroupism is absurd and highly suspicious.

In any case, it is unnecessary to address E-V13 in such broad terms. We will determine the location of the Albanian clades. Most likely among Illyrians, like the Dardanians, but we'll see. I feel that southern Illyrians should also have E-V13 haplogroup, as it is just as Proto-Albanian as the other haplogroups found among Proto-Albanians, as per SA.

 

[mount123]

There's no such thing as "Pannonians". It's a geographic term and can mean from Illyrian Pannonian to Celtic Pannonian in the north.

The Amantini were an Illyrian tribe. This is what all ancient and modern sources say and what their genetics show.

Are you now just flat out claiming that Illyrians weren't Illyrians with 0 proof?

Distance to: HUN_IA_SyrmianSremGroup:I18259
0.01987289 ALBÇinamak_Anc
0.02262380 HRV_BA
0.02284279 MNE_LBA
0.02605086 HRV_EIA
0.02660368 HRV_Cetina_BA
0.02674534 MKD_Anc
0.02923910 SRB_BA
0.02934967 HRV_MBA
0.02964210 SRB_Mokrin_EBA_Maros_oAegean
0.02980277 HRV_LIA_La_Tene
0.03029177 HUN_LBA_EIA
0.03152147 HUN_La_Tene
0.03239642 HRV_Pop_CA
0.03248031 GRC_Logkas_MBA
0.03302279 HRV_IA
0.03434449 ITA_Etruscan
0.03451836 CZE_LBA_Knoviz_o3
0.03466171 HRV_Anc
0.03516561 ALB_PostMdv
0.03594825 ALB_Mdv
0.03628972 MKD_BA
0.03657524 HRV_IA
0.03702245 SRB_IA
0.03741418 HRV_Bezdanjača_BA

Using flawed tools such as G25 and quoting Wikipedia amateur edits is not "proving" anything. That Hungarian sample on a PCA plots far to the East and South from the actual Illyrian core. Why not use actual academic methods of determining autosomal distances? If you want to equate Pannonia whose groups largely descend from the following zones and timeframes: TC - MD Urnfield/Eastern Urnfield with minor Illyrian influence with Illyrians=EBA Cetina - MBA Late Phase Cetina/Dinaric Culture you are very much off. Neither genetics nor the archeology of the area in question supports such a thing. It utmost definitely does not support that E1b-V13 majorly spread with Illyrians, that claim has totally been debunked. We are over this non sense and no serious persona continues to claim such a thing except internet enthusiasts such as Maleschreiber/Bruzmi and his "followers".

As for non radiocarbon dated misdated Slavic samples, those are indeed not restricted to Urnfield and male samples. Perhaps have a look at the supplemental data.

 

[Fustan]

Pots, words, pots, pots, words, pots..

How about Illyrians = EMA Albanians = Ottoman Albanians = Modern Albanians?

 

[Excine]

Using flawed tools such as G25 and quoting Wikipedia amateur edits is not "proving" anything. That Hungarian sample on a PCA plots far to the East and South from the actual Illyrian core. Why not use actual academic methods of determining autosomal distances? If you want to equate Pannonia whose groups largely descend from the following zones and timeframes: TC - MD Urnfield/Eastern Urnfield with minor Illyrian influence with Illyrians=EBA Cetina - MBA Late Phase Cetina/Dinaric Culture you are very much off. Neither genetics nor the archeology of the area in question supports such a thing. It utmost definitely does not support that E1b-V13 majorly spread with Illyrians, that claim has totally been debunked. We are over this non sense and no serious persona continues to claim such a thing except internet enthusiasts such as Maleschreiber/Bruzmi and his "followers".

As for non radiocarbon dated misdated Slavic samples, those are indeed not restricted to Urnfield and male samples. Perhaps have a look at the supplemental data.

Stop repeating something which you don't understand like a broken record. G25 is basically a PCA visualization.
There are 0 Slavic samples among Cinamak, Cetina, Velika Gruda LBA Illyrians. Zero.

The Syrmian group (Amantini) is closest to them because it is Illyrian and that is how ancient sources call it. If you don't like it, too bad for you.

 

[Excine]

Pots, words, pots, pots, words, pots..

How about Illyrians = EMA Albanians = Ottoman Albanians = Modern Albanians?

Ironically, some people here still don't get that most Albanians who have an account on Illustrative DNA will get exactly these matches. It's not a coincidence folks, see the writing on the wall or actually read what Southern Arc has to say about Albania.

 

[Hawk]

See Hawk, "zezaks from Ulqin" is complete trolling nonsense, so how should I respond? That it's not true? I don't bother to engage in such trolling.

If he attempted to post and explain that E-V13 is from Anatolia or Africa in order to convince someone, he would receive the same response 100x as the "neo-Illyrian" troll gets. I do not choose haplogroups that I prefer. Mes shqiptareve, t'gjitha t'njejta jane per mu: shqiptare. Many of your ancestors were J-L283, and the same is true for J-L283 Albanians, who have many E-V13 ancestors. Only trolls and those with ulterior motives are incapable of comprehending this.

Haplogroupism is absurd and highly suspicious.

In any case, it is unnecessary to address E-V13 in such broad terms. We will determine the location of the Albanian clades. Most likely among Illyrians, like the Dardanians, but we'll see. I feel that southern Illyrians should also have E-V13 haplogroup, as it is just as Proto-Albanian as the other haplogroups found among Proto-Albanians, as per SA.

Nevertheless, i think your response doesn't sum it up. When i compare with this tantrum:

In the E-V13, J-L283 and Albanian origins thread, this same crowd has claimed that 1. Albanian E-V13 also comes from Slavs 2. E-V13 in Albanians comes from Vlachs 3. J-L283 is Celtic (Trojet can confirm many cases where one of them will try to insinuate a Celtic connection) 3. J-L283 is not Illyrian, it's something else 4. Albanians have high Slavic admixture and hundreds of other weekly cases where someone will try again and again to attack Albanians, to make weird claims about their main haplogroups, to claim that Albanians have high Slavic admixture. All of these matters have been answered and clarified by just a few people against all constant anti-Albanian attacks. They defended Cetina as Illyrian (credits to Trojet who first said it years ago) when some other people here were siding with others who simply didn't want Cetina to be Illyrian because they didn't J-L283 to be present in a major archaeological culture. If somebody here thinks that such people didn't want Cetina to be J-L283 because they care about the ethnogenesis of Illyrians, you simply can't understand what is happening around you.

They are the same people who some other Albanians (?) are attacking here daily just because they don't call their haplogroup the greatest that has ever existed or because they don't subscribe to the more and more ludicrous idea that tries to disconnect Albanians from Illyrians. Some people here prefer to just attack other Albanians simply out of spite because they stand up to anti-Albanian propaganda, while they themselves have never done a single thing even when they were in anthrogenica and weren't banned there.

What exactly does the crowd here think that they're doing? They're mostly parroting fringe theories, anti-Albanian propaganda (many anti-Albanian nationalists are very happy when they read Johane Derite, Paleo-Revenge and the "neo-Illyrian" (lol) ) and attacking Albanians who stand up to BS about us.
Do you guys even understand what 99% of Albanians would have to say about your behavior?

What you have gathered in this post is your own biased subjective worldview. Mish-mash of what completely different unrelated people have said something and you hold a grudge.

 

[Hawk]

Stop repeating something which you don't understand like a broken record. G25 is basically a PCA visualization.
There are 0 Slavic samples among Cinamak, Cetina, Velika Gruda LBA Illyrians. Zero.

The Syrmian group (Amantini) is closest to them because it is Illyrian and that is how ancient sources call it. If you don't like it, too bad for you.

You don't have to be super-defensive btw. Illyrians bordered various Urnfielder groups north of them. And the few E-V13 we see over there probably were related to these people. Like the recent Iron Age sample near Zagreb, that site during Early Iron Age was considered as the southern-most site of a Gava spinoff group.

Ethnically, culturally, autosomally they probably could have been quite similar to them during classical time. No doubt, there was no major wall. But the LBA origin might be different. Even if that's the case, what we see is 3/4 core components/ingredients being mixed with almost similar ratios with some marginal differences.

Regarding Amantini, I just mentioned what she was saying based on some quotes, you don't have to drag us in long discussions, because i wasn't even insisting lol.

 

[Pashai Janinës]

There seems to be two of them, Amantes in Amantia a polis reported to have been located between Apollonia and Orikos, and Amantini in northen Illyria.
Anyhow I would stay away from the likes of Elena Kocaqi.

Në librin e tij "Epirus", Hammond përdor të njëjtën taktikë për të thënë se fiset Epirote ishin fise Greke, megjithëse shumë prej tyre janë permendur thjesht si "Ilirë" nga historianët Romakë apo Grekë. Për shembull, Hammond pretendon se ka patur dy fise të quajtur Amant, një Ilir dhe një "Grek", dy fise të quajtur Perrhaib, një Ilir dhe një Grek, dy fise të quajtur Dassaret, një Ilir dhe një Grek. Këtë ai e bën për arsye se historianët Romakë i kan quajtur të gjitha këto fise si "Ilire", ndërsa Hammond pretendon se ishin "helenizuar". Dhe menyra me e lehte per ti "Greqezuar" këto fise, është të thuash se Romakët po flisnin për fise të tjera që kishin të njëtin emër.

Kuptohet thjesht se kjo është një taktikë e dobët dhe e pa drejtë. Është e pa drejtë sepse është e pamundur që historianët Romakë të përmendin një fis si Dassaretët, në prapavijë të Apollonisë, si fis Ilir, kur sipas Hammondit në të njëjtën zonë, ka patur dhe nje fis tjetër me të njejtin emër por që ishte fis "Grek". Ata ishin ose Ilir, ose Grek, po nuk ishin dy fise te vecanta. Dhe te gjithe historianet e antikitetit, i permendin ata, bashkë me Amantët, Perrhaibët, etj, thjesht si fise Ilire dhe KURRË si fise Greke. Perrhaibët bile s'ishin as fis Epirot, por ishin një fis që gjendeshin përtej Epirit në Thesali, pra në thellësi të Greqisë. Dhe ishin pikerisht Romakët, në shekujt e erës sonë, që i përmendin jo vetëm si fis Ilir, por si një nga fiset Ilire të rrejdhur direkt nga "Iliri", krijuesi i etnosit Ilir.

 

[torzio]

Which of these Epirote tribes are non Greek

Amantes
Athamanians
Atintanians
Bryges
Cassopaei
Chaonians
Suliones
Dexaroi
Omphales
Parauaea
Selloi
Talares
Thesprotians
Tymphaeans

The Bold red are clearly non-Greek ..............I do not have much on the other tribes on their origins

 

[torzio]

the Taulantii and the Eel people , both went to modern Albania from the area of Budva Montenegro ................was Glaucias still around when Pyrrhus formed his empire ?

Dardania was still in existence.

Teuta strongholds and her rebellion was in modern Montenegro .

The Romans noted zero Illyrians in modern Albania from the time they took the Albania coast and inland from the Macedonians at the start of the 2nd Punic war

Macedonia and Hannibal where allies

As the romans secured Durres, Appolonia and Butrint from the macedonians at the time of the hannibal wars...................Philip V of Macedon had one last attempt to aid his ally Hannibal and so in 213BC he attacked and destroyed the Taulantii and eventually marched on and took Lissos ( Lehze ) from the Romans.......securing his only port on the adriatic sea...........stalemate occurred for the macedonians and romans and in 207BC a peace treaty was signed.
This was broken when the Macedonains supplied Hannibal with 3000 infantry at the battle of Zama ( africa )

 

[broder]

Torzio, go scr*w a dog or something.

 

[torzio]

Torzio, go scr*w a dog or something.

ROFL
don't know what you are upset about......just supplying historical fact

your an afghan.....what do you know !!!