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World Cup 2022

Duarte said:
Maybe a good chance that Messi can be an R1b-DF27, lol. :laughing:
Click to expand...

I think the odds that a male surname from the Marche in Italy is DF27 are a little slim, Duarte. :) Ronaldo is another matter.
 
kingjohn said:
Angela many argentinian people have italian
Ancestery
It was one of the 2 main southern european ancesteries
in them the other is iberian
For example:
Messi direct paternal line goes back to marche;-)
Click to expand...

There's a post somewhere about his ancestry. If I remember correctly, he's about 13/16 Italian, or maybe 12/16 or 75%, and the rest mostly Catalan. Whether there's a bit of indigenous in that 75% paper Italian genealogy I don't know; it's possible. Anyway, majority genetically Italian, not that it matters. He's Argentinian, and the paternal grandmother who encouraged him to play was Catalan, so Barca was a perfect fit for that and other reasons.

I've seen a few clips from when he was about 6years old. He was doing the same things then, to a certain extent, that he does now. I think that's partly what motivates some of the Messi haters out there. It comes too easily to him, like a perfect combination of genes meeting up to create someone made to play football: strength, incredible agility and foot/eye coordination, and more than anything an almost uncanny ability to slow the game down in his mind and almost as if he's looking at it from above, to see passes and routes through the other players that no one else can see. I'm not the first to say these things; I'm just quoting more or less because I can't say it any better.

Ronaldo is the opposite. He might be the hardest worker in the game by all accounts. Normally, that would endear someone to me, but he's such an egotistical, arrogant, obnoxious, greedy player that I still hate him.:)

As for Argentina, yes, a lot of Italians went there, although more went to Brazil. The difference with the U.S. besides numbers is also that the percentages are much higher for central and Northern Italians. I don't know any Ligurians or Lunigiana people or even Toscana people who came to America except my mother, although there are probably some, Susan Sarandon's ancestors among them. Yet, I have some distant cousins in Argentina, and my closest non-familial match is still an elderly man from La Spezia who went to Argentina.

In fact, THE iconic song of Genova is about a man who went to Argentina but at the end of his life went back home. For northerners as well as southerners, Italian immigrants have the highest rate of return.

If I think about it.
1:14



U l'ëa partiu sensa ûna palanca,
l'ëa zà trent'anni, forse anche ciû.
U l'aia luttou pe mette i dinæ a-a banca
pe poèisene ancun ûn giurnu turna in zû
e fäse a palassinna e o giardinettu,
cu o rampicante, e a cantinna e o vin,
a branda attaccâ a i ærboui, a û su lettu,
pe daghe 'na schenâ séia e mattin.
Ma u figgiu ghe dixeiva: "Nu ghe pensâ
a Zena cöse ti ghe vêu turnâ?"
He left without a penny,
it was already thirty years, maybe even more.
He had struggled to put money in the bank to be able one day to go back there
and build a house and small garden,
with a creeper plant, with a cellar and wine,
the cot attached to tree trunks for a bed,
to rest there evening and morning.
But his son said to him: "Don't think about
Genoa, why would you go back there? "

Ma se ghe pensu allua mi veddu u mâ,
veddu i mæ munti e a ciassa da Nünsiâ,
riveddu u Righi e me s'astrenze o chêu,
veddu a Lanterna, a cava, e lazzû o mêu...
Riveddu a séia Zena illûminâ,
veddu la Föxe e sentu franze o mâ
e allua mi pensu ancun de riturnâ
a pösâ e osse duve'òu mæ madunnâ.
But when I think of it, then I see the ocean,
I see my mountains and Piazza della Nunziata,
I see the Righi and my heart twists in pain,
I see the Lantern, the quarry, the pier
I see in the evening Genoa all illuminated,
I see beyond the Foce and hear the sea roaring
and then I think I will go back
to lay my bones where my grandmother's are.

L'ëa già passou du tempu, forse troppu,
u figgiu u ghe disceiva: "Stemmu ben,
duve ti vêu andâ, papá?.. pensiemmu doppu,
u viäggio, u má, t'é vëgio, nu cunven!"
"Oh nu, oh nu! me sentu ancun in gamba,
son stancu e nu ne possu pròpriu ciû,
son stûffu de sentî "señor caramba"
mi vêuggiu ritornamene ancun in zû...
Ti t'ê nasciûo e t'æ parlou spagnollu,
mi son nasciûo zeneize e... nu ghe mollu!"
Time passed, perhaps too much,
the son insisted: "We're fine here,
where will you go, Dad? We'll think of it later;
the journey, the sea, you're old, it's not right! "
"Oh no, oh no I still feel strong,
I'm fed up and I just cannot stand it anymore,
I'm tired of hearing: "señor, caramba",
I want to go back up there ...
You were born here and you spoke Spanish,
I was born a Genoese and ... I won't give it up!"

Ma se ghe pensu allua mi veddu u mâ,
veddu i mæ munti e a ciassa da Nünsiâ,
riveddu u Righi e me s'astrenze o chêu,
veddu a Lanterna, a cava, e lazzû o mêu...
Riveddu a séia Zena illûminâ,
veddu la Föxe e sentu franze o mâ
e allua mi pensu ancun de riturnâ
a pösâ e osse duve'òu mæ madunnâ.
But when I think of it, then I see the ocean,
I see my mountains and Piazza della Nunziata,
I see the Righi and my heart twists in pain,
I see the Lantern, the quarry, the pier over there
I see in the evening Genoa all illuminated,
I see beyond the Foce and hear the sea roaring
and then I think I will go back
to lay my bones where my grandmother's are.

E sensa tante cöse u l'è partïu
e a Zena u gh'à furmóu turna u so nïu.
And without much waiting he left
and in Genoa he formed his nest again.


 
Angela said:
I think the odds that a male surname from the Marche in Italy is DF27 are a little slim, Duarte. :) Ronaldo is another matter.
Click to expand...

Hi Angela
Well, I don’t know the complete genealogy of Messi, but the father of Messi is 50% Catalan (Messi is 25%). If these 50% Catalan side of the Messi’s father came from the Messi’s paternal grandfather and not from his paternal grandmother, there’s a big chance that The father and the own Messi are R1b-DF27, that is the haplogroup of 70% of Catalans (and 70% of Basques too).

The European immigrants who arrived in Latin America after the end of the colonial period, as a rule, were very poor and their past in the old continent ended up being lost over time, unfortunately.

Will be that Messi and his father really know their complete ancestry far beyond those who was living in America, immigrants or not?
 
Angela said:
Ronaldo is the opposite. He might be the hardest worker in the game by all accounts. Normally, that would endear someone to me, but he's such an egotistical, arrogant, obnoxious, greedy player that I still hate him.:)
Click to expand...

I admire Cristiano Ronaldo's football a lot. He plays a lot and is very talented. He is one of the great footballers in the world today. Now that he's nearing the end of his playing career he doesn't need to make all the fuss he did with the club he has a contract with, Manchester United. His sister, who lives in Brazil, seems to like to encourage the boy to fight with the coach of the Portuguese national team and also with the English club. Far from Messi's talent and Ronaldo's talent, is the Brazilian Neymar. He is what the press calls toxic talent and leadership. Tasteless dances when celebrating goals, bleached hair, tattoos and more tattoos all over the body, off-pitch parties, sub-celebrity behavior on social media are among the many bad examples given by this athlete to the new generation of soccer stars. Messi deserves to be champion because, in addition to the great athlete that he is, he is a positive leader and a great example of behavior for the new generations of athletes. If the new talents of world football want someone to be inspired by, forget Neymar and Cristiano Ronaldo and be inspired by Messi's example. The latter attained the rank of divinity.
 
Duarte said:
Maybe a good chance that Messi can be an R1b-DF27, lol. :laughing:
Click to expand...
it is already discussed on this site
Lionel Andrés Messi Cuccittini - Ydna G2a

his is actually
G2a1 which is specifically high among Ossetians and the North and West Caucasus region.
 
Duarte;662785]Hi Angela
Well, I don’t know the complete genealogy of Messi, but the father of Messi is 50% Catalan (Messi is 25%). If these 50% Catalan side of the Messi’s father came from the Messi’s paternal grandfather and not from his paternal grandmother, there’s a big chance that The father and the own Messi are R1b-DF27, that is the haplogroup of 70% of Catalans (and 70% of Basques too).

The European immigrants who arrived in Latin America after the end of the colonial period, as a rule, were very poor and their past in the old continent ended up being lost over time, unfortunately.

Will be that Messi and his father really know their complete ancestry far beyond those who was living in America, immigrants or not?
Click to expand...


The paternal line is from the Marche, a common name there. His paternal ancestor arrived in Rosario, Argentina from the Marche in 1893, where all of them have lived since. That's not very far back at all. I'm sure all his biographers have had no trouble checking the records. Their researches, often in the form of family trees, can be found online. If it was all incorrect, I'm sure he would have corrected the record.

His father's mother was or is Catalan, as one can tell by her surname Perez-Mateu. There can be no dispute about that since it's so relatively recent, and the surnames are provided. There are family trees on line also for her, with the towns near Zaragoza from which both her parents came.

His maternal grandfather's line is all Italian and also comes from Marche and and the maternal grandmother is, according to some family trees I've seen half-Italian and half old stock Argentinian. From her appearance in some photos, although not all, there might be some indigenous ancestry there.

http://www.gens.info/italia/it/turi...i-italia?cognome=Messi&x=26&y=13#.Y5veeHbMK3A




Messi and his mother:
4D7BDD3600000578-0-image-a-62_1529584396071.jpg




Messi's maternal grandparents:
search

20160627121045790x495.jpg


Messi's father:
Messi-Father-Insta_570_850.jpg


Messi's paternal grandparents:
search


DwMTmhF.png


If that man isn't Italian, I'll eat my hat. :)

He has a really beautiful wife, also with an Italian surname, perhaps Sicilian,from his hometown of Rosario, if I remember correctly. The town must be really heavy in Italian migrant descendants. His three boys have the cuteness factor times 10. :)

hqdefault.jpg
 
Angela said:
The paternal line is from the Marche, a common name there. His paternal ancestor arrived in Rosario, Argentina from the Marche in 1893, where all of them have lived since. That's not very far back at all. I'm sure all his biographers have had no trouble checking the records. Their researches, often in the form of family trees, can be found online. If it was all incorrect, I'm sure he would have corrected the record.

His father's mother was or is Catalan, as one can tell by her surname Perez-Mateu. There can be no dispute about that since it's so relatively recent, and the surnames are provided. There are family trees on line also for her, with the towns near Zaragoza from which both her parents came.

His maternal grandfather's line is all Italian and also comes from Marche and and the maternal grandmother is, according to some family trees I've seen half-Italian and half old stock Argentinian. From her appearance in some photos, although not all, there might be some indigenous ancestry there.

http://www.gens.info/italia/it/turi...i-italia?cognome=Messi&x=26&y=13#.Y5veeHbMK3A




Messi and his mother:
4D7BDD3600000578-0-image-a-62_1529584396071.jpg




Messi's maternal grandparents:
search

20160627121045790x495.jpg


Messi's father:
Messi-Father-Insta_570_850.jpg


Messi's paternal grandparents:
search


DwMTmhF.png


If that man isn't Italian, I'll eat my hat. :)

He has a really beautiful wife, also with an Italian surname, perhaps Sicilian,from his hometown of Rosario, if I remember correctly. The town must be really heavy in Italian migrant descendants. His three boys have the cuteness factor times 10. :)

hqdefault.jpg
Click to expand...

Thanks Angela. Since his Catalan origin comes from his paternal grandmother and not from his Italian paternal grandfather, yes, indeed, the chances of him being R1b-DF27 are practically nil.

Torzio, so Messi is a Y G2a1. It should be then figure prominently in this Eupedia thread and I don't see it there:

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/40870-Searching-for-famous-G2a-members
 
lionel Messi paternal family Line goes back to
#15
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/6...-268:350209001,350242501,350243301&cc=2043838
Antonio Messi born 1863 in Recanti, Macerata, Marche, Italy

married as per link above ...Catterina Latini on 21 May 1892 in Montefano, Macerata, Marche Italy ............

his father name was Pacifico Messi...and mother Lucia Calena ...........both from Recanti, Macerata, Marche, Italy.

Pacifico was already deceased by the term "fu" in front of his name on this marriage certificate
 
Duarte said:
Thanks Angela. Since his Catalan origin comes from his paternal grandmother and not from his Italian paternal grandfather, yes, indeed, the chances of him being R1b-DF27 are practically nil.

Torzio, so Messi is a Y G2a1. It should be then figure prominently in this Eupedia thread and I don't see it there:

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/40870-Searching-for-famous-G2a-members
Click to expand...


it was 2015............a Messi family member had his Dna done on ftdna and placed it on ysearch ( an off branch of Ftdna ............ftdna stopped this fabulous site about 4 years ago) I think Huracan might have access as he used it recently to link me a T ydna sample ,.......unless it was an old copy )
 
torzio said:
it was 2015............a Messi family member had his Dna done on ftdna and placed it on ysearch ( an off branch of Ftdna ............ftdna stopped this fabulous site about 4 years ago) I think Huracan might have access as he used it recently to link me a T ydna sample ,.......unless it was an old copy )
Click to expand...

So he is G
Nice ( this haplogroup is not rare in italy)
Maradona might be Q if his father line is realy native
I do know though that maradona has some croatian ancestery we cant see it at all in his look
But it is there:wondering:
 
kingjohn said:
So he is G
Nice ( this haplogroup is not rare in italy)
Maradona might be Q if his father line is realy native
I do know though that maradona has some croatian ancestery we cant see it at all in his look
But it is there:wondering:
Click to expand...


there is very old Q ydna in some croatian islands .................as well as N ydna
 
torzio said:
it is already discussed on this site
Lionel Andrés Messi Cuccittini - Ydna G2a

his is actually
G2a1 which is specifically high among Ossetians and the North and West Caucasus region.
Click to expand...

my moms paternal line shares the ydna with the goat. Amazing :)


G2a was found also among the ancient Sicani
 
Luso said:
my moms paternal line shares the ydna with the goat. Amazing :)
G2a was found also among the ancient Sicani
Click to expand...

I am counting 12/162 7.4% G
In marche region from where messi direct paternal line came)
Afcorse not common as r1b but G is there without any doubt

Source:
Table S1:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00414-007-0153-y

And this other paper
also found 5/41 12% G
In macerata which is the specific sub region of
Marche from where messi trace his paternal line

Source:
Table s2:
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0065441
 
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kingjohn said:
So he is G
Nice ( this haplogroup is not rare in italy)
Maradona might be Q if his father line is realy native
I do know though that maradona has some croatian ancestery we cant see it at all in his look
But it is there:wondering:
Click to expand...

Hi King John, I understand Maradona's male line is from Galicia. He is suppose to descend directly from Francisco Fernández de Maradona, born in Sant Pedro de Arante (today Arante), Spain, on 1745 and stablished in Salta, in Northern Argentina. Regards
 
Juan.delajara said:
Hi King John, I understand Maradona's male line is from Galicia. He is suppose to descend directly from Francisco Fernández de Maradona, born in Sant Pedro de Arante (today Arante), Spain, on 1745 and stablished in Salta, in Northern Argentina. Regards
Click to expand...

Sorry in San Juan de Cuyo not Salta....
 
Juan.delajara said:
Hi King John, I understand Maradona's male line is from Galicia. He is suppose to descend directly from Francisco Fernández de Maradona, born in Sant Pedro de Arante (today Arante), Spain, on 1745 and stablished in Salta, in Northern Argentina. Regards
Click to expand...

thanks for the information:good_job:
thats deep in north galicia
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arante
if thats the case
Q is out of the question for his y haplogroup
 
FkPSe4rXEAABI-O



images
 
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