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Genetic study A genetic history of the Balkans from Roman frontier to Slavic migrations

If EV13 was only present in some Dacian tribe up North, it could not have spread in the Greco Roman world on time. It would be too little too late.

South Eastern Urnfield = Proto-Thracian, spread with
1st Urnfield-Channelled Ware
2nd Basarabi-Eastern Hallstatt
3rd Vekerzug
4th La Tene Celtic backflow
5th Roman era migrations and resettlements
6th Migration Period movements, including those with East Germanics and Sarmatians
7th Slavic expansion (minority element)
8th Vlachs and Albanians
9th Secondary movements, like
a) Frankish and German settlements (some main source regions of German settlers have 10 and more percent E-V13)
b) Medieval and post-Medieval Greek movements and settlement
etc.
 

This has to be a misapplication of the study's information.

I haven't even really have time to delve into the supplemental info. But his is a massive leap from the conclusions of 2017.
Horrible model. Even Fallmerayer's theory of Modern Greeks being predominantly Slavic and Albanians with some Byzantine ancestry is better than this. I hope they did not put Albanians in this misleading study because we plot similar to Mainland Greeks, people will start to believe were are 10% Turkic and half Slavic.
 
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Oh god bronze+Roman era+medieval+post medieval populations in the same comparison
🤦
 
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The paper is bad. It has many flaws. Biggest being that it is Serbian-centric hence why the focus also is on certain uniparentals more represented in modern Serbs such as obviously Slavic I2a-Y3120/R1a-M417+ and that certain bit of E1b-V13 female mtDNA equivalents the Slavic chieftains mingled with and that tinier bit of Y-DNA E1b-V13 they adopted along the way.

Paleo-Balkan uniparentals such as J2b-L283, J2a-Y13128 (and some other L26 branches), G2a-L91, R1b-Z2103, R1b-PF7562>PF7563 don't really get mentioned in their uniparental section. Only a small section in the supplementary info, where they say they could be "Balkan Iron Age" related.

Their attempt at auDNA analysis is a major shitshow. It reads like some Turboslavic twitter shit post from some crackpot from Beograd. It does seem like some bad ethic might be involved.

So essentially Albanians and Greeks, only modern representatives of pre-Slavs in the Balkan peninsula, that live mainly south of the glorious Yugo Übermensch are supposedly a mixture of a much tinier percentage of Paleo-Southeastern European DNA than what top notch papers and factual data suggest, but now also have a lot of Slavic and Ottoman Turkish DNA 😆
1.the funniest thing about this "high slavic" nonsense is that even the authors literally wrote about "Eastern European" admixture which is obviously the steppe admixture
"We present evidence that Eastern European ancestry was sporadically present in the Balkans long before the Slavic migrations of late antiquity"
2.As for the ottoman turkish admixture nonsense that model is so shitty that they didn't even mention it in the study itself
 

This has to be a misapplication of the study's information.

I haven't even really have time to delve into the supplemental info. But his is a massive leap from the conclusions of 2017.

Ah now makes sense why modern Greeks don't have much r-pf7562 which was present in Mycenaeans

This seems a bit extreme, especially the Roman era Anatolian input - almost a population replacement in most regions. Maybe they have mixed up some Minoan ancestry with Roman era Anatolian and also mixed up some Slavic ancestry with post Urnfield like people, Dacians etc
 
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Without Vlach and Albanian ancestry, the whole map makes no sense. Not all the ancestry in modern Greeks is derived from Slavs, Ancient Greeks, Old Anatolian and Medieval Turks. The approach and model as such are absurd.
 
Seems like this was the mystery paper, I'm surprised no new samples were added while it remained frozen in review. 31% Slavic for Albanians is exaggerated, 25% is what I get in G25.

If that is even the case, most of it is from a South Slavic proxy, a process of 1000 years at least, rather than directly from some Polak or Ukrainian . South Slavs are much more Slavic than people think. Just look how south some of these ancient samples plot and you'll see what I mean. Also good part of their Balkan is from Aromanians, Romanians and Albanians.
 
In that area were so many people and layers, which pushed each other, that the major founding and expansion event of E-V13 which started in the MBA is not feasable. Even more, if E-V13 covers that area, explaining the presence of other regional subclades like under R-Z2103 becomes even more problematic.
We know from the current data that the relative positioning of the major branches to each other was like that:
J-L283 West and North West
R-Z2103 Central-South
J2a South and South-East
E-V13 North and North East

The Paeonians and Bryges/Phrygians were a separate, probably related people, and I doubt they were as dominated by E-V13 as the Daco-Thracians.

Maximal expansion-strong influence of Daco-Thracians:

The-position-of-of-the-Thracian-tribes-in-V-II-BC.ppm




Another view on the Balkans:


paleo-balkan-languages.jpg


The area of modern Albania was exposed to Channelled Ware and Basarabi influence, but it was not part of the Daco-Thracian core settlement area at any time. Of the modern Albanian ethnic territories, Kosovo was the most Daco-Thracian influenced part. As one can see, both Kosovo and Macedonia are likely to have had E-V13, both because of earlier (Gáva-related Channelled Ware) and later Daco-Thracian influences and settlement in those regions.

But not because it was the original homeland. We can also see that the Paeonian and Bryges people were kind of what remained of an earlier population, before the Daco-Thracian/Channelled Ware (E-V13) and Illyrian (J-L283) expansions.
I would associate them with other haplogroups (like R-Z2103), whereas the Greeks had lots of J2a.

Presheva, Bujanofc which are Albanian territories (or used to be much more at least ) was Moesian according to this and also Toplica which used to be Albanian.
 
I think they might have identified IE Logkas (4/10 Steppe) as Ancient Greek. Hence the highest rates of Ancient Greek in Thessaly. Then all the pre-Greek Minoan etc., as well as well as West Asia-Minor post-Bronze Age admixture falls under Hittite/Luwian. Finally, for the high Slavic rates they used the method based on Steppe level differences between modern Greeks and Lazaridis‘ Mycenaeans who only had 1/10 Steppe.

Ofcourse in retrospect, they did’t emphasise the central Asian Turkish ancestry to estimate medieval Turkic ancestry, but also took into account the new elements the Turks absorbed once they established themselves in Anatolia in say the 15th century.

Hence you alienate Ancient Greeks from their Anatolian source and put an emphasis on Ottoman ancestry by using a methodology to boost the Turkish rates.
 
Romanians 11% Ottoman input is surely wrong? Maybe they haven't calculated for Sarmatian input

Albanians 43% Roman Anatolian, Greeks from 39% - 84%, these are crazy numbers. I reckon some of this Anatolian ancestry is actually Mycenaean/Minoan
 
Romanians 11% Ottoman input is surely wrong? Maybe they haven't calculated for Sarmatian input

Albanians 43% Roman Anatolian, Greeks from 39% - 84%, these are crazy numbers. I reckon some of this Anatolian ancestry is actually Mycenaean/Minoan
That's what I was thinking, because they're both Anatolian_N + CHG.
 
After reading the comments above:

1-🇬🇷 sees anything disturbing
2-🇬🇷 feels an unpleasant psychological state resulting from inconsistency with what is in his mind.
3-🇬🇷 solves this psychological state with the solution: IT MUST BE FAKE or WRONG MODEL.
4- 🇬🇷 AGAIN 😃
 
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Romanians 11% Ottoman input is surely wrong? Maybe they haven't calculated for Sarmatian input

Albanians 43% Roman Anatolian, Greeks from 39% - 84%, these are crazy numbers. I reckon some of this Anatolian ancestry is actually Mycenaean/Minoan

The label is CroatiaSerbia_RomanAnatolian, not just Roman Anatolian.
 
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