Veneti / Venedi / Wends (OFFTOPIC Y-DNA Haplogroups R1b-U152/S28)

[how yes no 3]

If you want to quote Olga's book, she stated the slavs left the balkans in 4500BC and went to mesopatamia and created the first language, then to India and then back to europe as far as the rhine river.
One branch from meopotamia went to become pharohs of egypt.

Quote correctly the utter rubbish from Olga's book...the propoganda book that was taught in all Yugoslav schools.

like in many countries that are in search for lost past there were rubbish historians in Serbia such as Deretic and Olga whatever...
but nothing like that is ever learned in schools....
stop repeating such a lie...
i went to school in Serbia and I know very well that such authors would never ever be mentioned in schools.... in school regarding the national history we only learned known facts starting from around 11th century...and that slavs arrive to Balkans in 6th or 7th century in the end period of big movements of people....

so stop speaking about things that you have no clue about.... better speak about schools you attended in Albania or even worse in Kosovo with hate speech about slavic people and insisting that albanian language is same as Illyrian and that Veneti are just Illyrians... one of the reasons for Albanians from Kosovo to exit official education system and make parallel ilegal one in end of 80s or begining of 90s was exactly the point that offical history didnot want to identify in school books Albanians as Illyrians as there was just no evidence to support it...personally, I think that language of Albanians come from Dardanian, and that it may have few words from Illyrians... but if you look for Illyrians you should probably search in romanized population of south and west Balkan - Vlachs who have largely assimilated in populations of south Slavic countries, Albania and Greece...

as far as I see dublin never made a reference to books of that Olga whatever
he quotes in post above some linguists and encyclopedia... I do not know where he got these data from and how reliable it is...

but from modern languages slavic is from all I see most close to PIE vocabulary...
which is very logical concerning its central position among indo-european speaking people....
don't see why is that such a problem for you....

 

[dublin]

zanipolo

you are again claiming baltic peoples lands for the slavs

if in the antiquity the Baltic sea was called Wendish sea, if there is direct Cultural continuity in the south Baltic from bronze age to today, if all the authors from antiquity say that the inhabitants of the south Baltic are Wends who are Slavs who are Serbs who are Vandals, if even Germans (who don't particularly like Slavs and use Wend as a derogatory term for Slavs) say that wends (Slawen) lived in the south of Baltic, i think i will continue to "be claiming baltic peoples lands for the slavs".

funny you call yourself "Venet". Do you know who Venets were:

special studies of ancient human bones show a high genetic connection between
Etruscan, Veneti and present slovenians, especially in bones 2400 years old from the north
adriatic sea...


M. Budja, Who are the Europeans? Proceedings of the 5th International Topical Conference, Origin of Europeans, Jutro, ljubljana 2007, pp. 7-26.

 

[dublin]

If you want to quote Olga's book, she stated the slavs left the balkans in 4500BC and went to mesopatamia and created the first language, then to India and then back to europe as far as the rhine river.
One branch from meopotamia went to become pharohs of egypt.

Quote correctly the utter rubbish from Olga's book...the propoganda book that was taught in all Yugoslav schools.

and i didn't quote anyone. i came to this conclusion myself. look at the maps. read what other people who are not serbians have to say about this.

 

[dublin]

Vineta,

Vineta or Wineta (sometimes held to be identical with Jomsborg by German apologists) was a possibly legendary ancient town believed to have been on the coast of the Baltic Sea. It was commonly said to be on the present site of Wolin in Poland or of Zinnowitz on Usedom island inGermany. Today it is said to have been near Barth in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern. At all these places, Vineta museums and Vineta festivals try to attract tourists.
Around 970 Ibrāhīm ibn Ya`qūb, envoy of the Caliph of Córdoba, reported that in Pomerania was a large port "with twelve gates", whose armed force is superior to "all peoples of the north".
In 1043 Vineta was to be conquered by the fleet of the Danish and Norwegian king Magnus I of Norway.
Traders in the eleventh and twelfth century reported about a town that was the most powerful port of the Baltic Sea. Bishop Adam of Bremen wrote that Vineta was the largest of all towns in Europe.
A Danish fleet destroyed Vineta in 1159 during the Christianizing of the Wends (Wendish Crusade).
There is a legend that Vineta sank in a storm tide because of the sinfulness of its inhabitants, and that before the sinking there were warning portents. It is thought likely that Vineta sank because of shifting of distributary channels in the delta of the river Oder.^[1]

Now was this city just a myth?

The incredible wealth of Vineta could only have originated from the amber trade. Here is something about Amber trade from old historical sources:

http://www.balticambershop.com/en/content/19-amber-ancient-writers

"amber from Aegyptus called sacal"

the Egyptian name for amber was Sacal. The name for the product, especially such a unique on such as Amber, is usually given by the suppliers. In Slavic languages glass is called staklo, staclo, sklo, steklo... with the root stkl or stcl. Slavic s(t)cl is found in all Semitic languages in the word for amber. The same is in Greek glesso and Egyptian sacal. This proves that Slavs lived in the Baltic in antiquity and controlled the amber trade.
By the way if you have ever seen amber you know that it looks like glass. I believe that glass was named like that because it looked like amber.

 

[LeBrok]

there is no Celtic and Slavic and Germanic religion that can be set completely apart...
they are all derived from same religion of proto-indo-european people...

e.g. Slavic Perun is derived from the same deity as Baltic Perkunas, Luwian Tarhun, Celtic Taranas, Hattian Taru, Germanic Thor

I do not see how someone can claim that 3-headed deity belongs to one branch of a religion but not to other branch...
if it exist in two branches, clearly most logical explanation is that it comes from their parent branch in both...

3 headed deity is among Slavic deities, and in Celtic as well...
the argument that Triglav doesnot have a functional meaning in Slavic is ridicilous....
Triglav = 3 heads
but 3 heads that see 3 main worlds: sky, earth and underworld.

do not forget that word "glavno" = main , key
so this is a deity with view in 3 main areas...

while Svetovid (svet = world, vid = to see) was a God who had 4 heads and was looking in 4 directions... he was not in the main view with look into all 3 key subworlds of indo-european religions (sky, earth, underworld) , he was inside one of the 3 subviews and there he could look in 4 directions (space dimension in 2d world as in crossroads...i would not relate it to 3D space plus time model though it may be).. ...

Yes, and most known Zeus. When did the IE split? 6k ago, posibly earlier. Triglav finds were documented by 1,000CE in Pomerania. Don't you think that during 5,000 years of IE spit, the IE religion didn't evolve in separate ways? We are talking about 5,000 (!) years, at least, of accumulated differences in Celtic, Slavis, Greek or Germanic pagan religions.
There are similarities, and lots of them, but there are big differences too, in languages and also in religions. Do you feel like denying it?

but 3 heads that see 3 main worlds: sky, earth and underworld.

This is only assumed, though probably right. The main issue here is that the tree elements are not gods, there are 3 gods that represent these elements, right? Behind 3 faces (of any trinity, together with christian's) there are 3 gods, which have there own names. What are they? Do Slavs, or you, ancient texts, know the proper Slavic names for the god of sky, earth and underworld, that consist the triglav? No? What a shame. Obviously they needed one shorter name to describe this trinity, but Triglav doesn't sound right, Devin, worth of gods.
All we know is that these statues represent Triglav, threehead. "Oh look father, there is a threehead"! Again, this is not a proper god's name. Besides, statues of Triglav are more commonly found in France or Ireland than in slavic lands, except West Pomerania.
If you right in your supposition about Triglav being slavic god, you should be able to find more of them in slavic lands, which were christened much later than France or Ireland. What about Baltic states? Christianity in some places came there by 16-17th century? Do they have Triglav? Surely they are IE people.
http://www.latvianstuff.com/Deities.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Latvian_deities
I don't see Triglav, do you?

What about Scythians? Any Triglavs?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythian_religion

if we would ask for deities to have names with clear functional meaning in the associated languages, how do you explain names of the most Celtic deities that are not at all translatable via Celtic words? while Slavic words give match to function of those deities... does it mean that Celtic religion comes from Slavs?


http://www.scribd.com/doc/13082475/CeltoSlavic-Similarities-Pavel-Serafimov

truth is somewhat different....both Slavic and Celtic religion are inhereted from proto-indo-european religion
names of deities in that religion are related to PIE dictionary......
most of those words do still exist in Slavic languages that are considerably closer to original proto-indo-european than Celtic languages....
most of those words do not exist in Celtic languages anymore...

I'm not expert in Celtic or old IE to comment much here. On first glance I noticed that this was put together by someone from Bulgaria, and most cognates found in Bulgarian too. We should mention that Bulgarian is one of most foreign influence Slavic language anyway. The correspondences of words don't look professionally done, and most "cognates" need a strong stretch of imagination. Plus, I'm sure if we had a member on eupedia who speaks Celtic from 3000 years ago, he would prove you, and person who did this comparison, easily wrong.

 

[zanipolo]

like in many countries that are in search for lost past there were rubbish historians in Serbia such as Deretic and Olga whatever...
but nothing like that is ever learned in schools....
stop repeating such a lie...
i went to school in Serbia and I know very well that such authors would never ever be mentioned in schools.... in school regarding the national history we only learned known facts starting from around 11th century...and that slavs arrive to Balkans in 6th or 7th century in the end period of big movements of people....

so stop speaking about things that you have no clue about.... better speak about schools you attended in Albania or even worse in Kosovo with hate speech about slavic people and insisting that albanian language is same as Illyrian and that Veneti are just Illyrians... one of the reasons for Albanians from Kosovo to exit official education system and make parallel ilegal one in end of 80s or begining of 90s was exactly the point that offical history didnot want to identify in school books Albanians as Illyrians as there was just no evidence to support it...personally, I think that language of Albanians come from Dardanian, and that it may have few words from Illyrians... but if you look for Illyrians you should probably search in romanized population of south and west Balkan - Vlachs who have largely assimilated in populations of south Slavic countries, Albania and Greece...

as far as I see dublin never made a reference to books of that Olga whatever
he quotes in post above some linguists and encyclopedia... I do not know where he got these data from and how reliable it is...

but from modern languages slavic is from all I see most close to PIE vocabulary...
which is very logical concerning its central position among indo-european speaking people....
don't see why is that such a problem for you....

i attended all my schooling in Australia where there are NO propoganda books like Srbi...narod najstariji ( serbian/slavic propoganda) , you are far more more albanian than anyone else in europe, as serbians where thracian in genes except for the few who migrated...........which is why slavic nobles claim title of triballi. The triballi where neighbours of the dardanians who are in kosovo.......you see the link

The illyrians are not such people IMO, only a terms used by greek and roman historians in bulk naming tribes due to location. The 2007 studies clearly show the genetics of illyrians are: R1b, R1a, I and J and there is no E

There is no hate speak, I just see and read about logical facts, not mythology either

 

[how yes no 3]

Yes, and most known Zeus. When did the IE split? 6k ago, posibly earlier. Triglav finds were documented by 1,000CE in Pomerania. Don't you think that during 5,000 years of IE spit, the IE religion didn't evolve in separate ways? We are talking about 5,000 (!) years, at least, of accumulated differences in Celtic, Slavis, Greek or Germanic pagan religions.
There are similarities, and lots of them, but there are big differences too, in languages and also in religions. Do you feel like denying it?

of course not...
I was just trying to show dublin that Triglav-alike god in Celtic lands is by no mean indicator (and not proof as he suggests) of Slavic people in celtic lands...

i claim that *uend is just name for border lands of R1a people and may have been given to variious tribes...
Vikings are certainly not Slavic people....though of course there may have been some slavic people among them... same as pirates later were not nationaly conscious people but united in goal for robbing other people...

dublin starts with assigning PIE *deub in dublin to the Slavic influence, continues with three headed eity = presence of Slavic people
which is lot of assumptions to come to conclusion that from what i see just doesnot hold that vikings are slavic people...

This is only assumed, though probably right. The main issue here is that the tree elements are not gods, there are 3 gods that represent these elements, right? Behind 3 faces (of any trinity, together with christian's) there are 3 gods, which have there own names. What are they? Do Slavs, or you, ancient texts, know the proper Slavic names for the god of sky, earth and underworld, that consist the triglav? No? What a shame. Obviously they needed one shorter name to describe this trinity, but Triglav doesn't sound right, Devin, worth of gods.

glavno = main, key
so Triglav, may have been what I describe...
i do not see your point in claiming it was not Slavic god originally, when it could have eaasily been....

All we know is that these statues represent Triglav, threehead. "Oh look father, there is a threehead"! Again, this is not a proper god's name. Besides, statues of Triglav are more commonly found in France or Ireland than in slavic lands, except West Pomerania.

from what i read he was Slavic god...
whole idea clearly comes from PIE religion that sees a world as big tree whose top is sky/heaven, mid is world, and roots is underworld...
it is very natural to have deity that operates in all 3 worlds....

If you right in your supposition about Triglav being slavic god, you should be able to find more of them in slavic lands, which were christened much later than France or Ireland. What about Baltic states? Christianity in some places came there by 16-17th century? Do they have Triglav? Surely they are IE people.
http://www.latvianstuff.com/Deities.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Latvian_deities
I don't see Triglav, do you?

Triglav is also known by Russian mythology...

What about Scythians? Any Triglavs?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythian_religion

no clue...

I'm not expert in Celtic or old IE to comment much here. On first glance I noticed that this was put together by someone from Bulgaria, and most cognates found in Bulgarian too. We should mention that Bulgarian is one of most foreign influence Slavic language anyway. The correspondences of words don't look professionally done, and most "cognates" need a strong stretch of imagination. Plus, I'm sure if we had a member on eupedia who speaks Celtic from 3000 years ago, he would prove you, and person who did this comparison, easily wrong.

that's because author is probably Bulgarian and has no clue about PIE vocabulary... it is one of those "scientific" papers that goes on conferences with lot of wishful thinking authors....

alternatively, Procopius does claim that Bulgarians origin from Cimerrians, which may have lead to those words...as Thraco-Cimmerians archeological findings are all the way to Denmark...

I can try fast to compile similar thing in Serbian for most of the names.... point is those are just PIE derived words....with many of them being preserved in Slavic languages...

Belenos was another important Gaulish god. His name means the bright, white one [15], p. 30 and his closest equivalent is Slavic Belobog. the name of this deity can’t be explained in Irish, Scottish, or Welsh language. In these languages
white is respectively FEN, BAN, GWYN.There are many more Celtic gods,which names are easy to be explained from Slavic languages as Bulgarian, Slovene, Russian etc.

belo = white

ALAUNUS was a sun-god [25], his name corresponds to Slavic (Blg. Russ.) word ALEN
red

.no match

ALISANOS was god of the alder trees [26]; his name corresponds to Bulgarian word
ELSHA alder tree

list = leaf
.

VETEROS was wind-god revered in Britain [27]; his name corresponds to Common Slavic word VETER - wind

vetar = wind

IALONUS was a earth-god [15], p. 124; his name is connected with Old Church Slavonic word ILĂ earth, mud

ilovača = type of ground, reach with clay

VASIO
was another agriculture-god [15], p. 218; his name is connected with Old ChurchSlavonic word VĂSĂ - earth, village, mansion
VAS is Modern Slovenian word for village

vašar = occasional market place in villages, but not so much for agricultural product, except for selling e.g. cows..originally probably the place to buy tools for agriculture...
vaza = pot, typically used for flowers
vazal = in medieval period person who works and lives on land of master, also used for subjegated country that needs to pay part of its wealth to the other country
vasiona = universe
.

BEISIRISA means the bright one [15], p. 127; his name corresponds to Slavic (Blg. Sl.Serbo-Croat) word BISER pearl (shiny object)

biser = pearl
bistro = clear
bis = when performers of show repeatedly come on stage for applause

LOUCETIUS means The bright one [15], p. 142, and his name corresponds best to Slovene word LUČ light
. Old Church Slavonic verb LUČITI to light, to shine
is also related tot he name of LUCETICUS.

luča = torch, also spark of fire

LATOBIUS

means the bright one [15], p. 130; his name corresponds to Bulgarian words LJATO summer and LĂŠTJA to shine

leto= summer, also year in more archaic usage
leteti = to fly
letelica = flying machine e.g. airplane or helicopter

i mention fly related words because inscriptions for this god ae mainly found on tops of mountains
also letopis = writing of history

VOROCIOS was e healer-god [15], p. 144; his name corresponds to Slovene, Bulg. Russ.word VRAČ healer

.vrač = medicine man, shaman

PRITONA was goddess of bridges [15], p. 176, her name corresponds to Common Slavic word BROD bridge, ford

prut = stick made from tree branch
note that in those times bridges were made from wood

.

SEQUANA was a river-goddess [15], p. 188, her name is connected with Old ChurchSlavonic verb SIKATI to water
.

na-sukati = when boat ends up mistakenly on shores or in shallow waters
seka - used for sister (kind of softer word for "sestra"(sister)), but can also be used for any younger female...

LATIS was goddess of the marshes and pools [15], p. 130, her name I connect to Common Slavic word BLATO marsh

blato = mud, swamp
.

GLANIS was god of the healing springs [15], p. 105, his name is connected with OldBulgarian word GLENĂ moist, wet and Slovene GLEN mud.
Here I have to mention that a lot of springs have mud with healing qualities.

glina = clay

VERBEJA

was goddess of the willows [15], p. 219, her name is connected with Bulgarian word VĂRBA willow, Slovenian VRBA willow, Russian VERBA willow.

vrba = villow

VERNOSTONOS was revered in Britain [15], p. 219, his name means the one who makes the alder trees groan
His name corresponds to Bulgarian words BOR, BORINA fir tree and STON groan
.

vernost = loyality

RUDIAN was war-god, which name means the bloody one [15], p. 181. RUDIAN cor-responds to Old Russian word
RUDA blood

ridj = reddish
ruda = material reach in searched for minerals obtained from mining
i would rather associate this with english rude and red

SMERTRIUS, or MARS SMERTRIUS was another war-god [15], p. 193, which name I connect with Common Slavic word
SMERT death. M. J. Green [15] connects his name with the abundance, provision, but it seems to me that it is more logical to connect awar-god with death, not with abundance and provision.

smrt = death

SUCELL

US was a smith-god, his name means Good striker
[15], p. 200. the particle SU corresponds to Gaulish word SU good and Bulgarian HUBAV good , CELL (US) cor-responds to Bulgarian verb KLEPAM I strike, Slovene verb KLEPATI to hit, to strike,and Bulgarian and Slovenian word KLEPALO
hammer.

sučeliti = to confront
sklepati = to make something in ad-hoc improvized manner, so it doesnot really hold for long
klepiti = to hit
po-klopac = coverlid
poklopiti = to put over

all in all I would say better explanation than author's usage of combination of Bulgarian, Slovenian and old church Slavic

 

[zanipolo]

zanipolo



if in the antiquity the Baltic sea was called Wendish sea, if there is direct Cultural continuity in the south Baltic from bronze age to today, if all the authors from antiquity say that the inhabitants of the south Baltic are Wends who are Slavs who are Serbs who are Vandals, if even Germans (who don't particularly like Slavs and use Wend as a derogatory term for Slavs) say that wends (Slawen) lived in the south of Baltic, i think i will continue to "be claiming baltic peoples lands for the slavs".

funny you call yourself "Venet". Do you know who Venets were:

I claim Venet after the modern terminology as per the italian constitution, where the only other people ethnically in Italy as a popolo ( people) are sardinians and venets.

Ancient Venet are linked with venetic culture which in italy by archeology is presently dated to 1050BC , there is no where else i see this.
They went from venetic to Polada culture to Este culture

When was it called wendish sea...please link
this is its original name The Baltic Sea, in ancient sources known as Mare Suebicum (also known as Mare Germanicum),[5

So you claim vandals are slavs as well now? .............

 

[LeBrok]

but from modern languages slavic is from all I see most close to PIE vocabulary...
which is very logical concerning its central position among indo-european speaking people....
.

It might be true, judging by almost full IE grammar. Same goes to Baltic family I suppose.

 

[LeBrok]

zanipolo



if in the antiquity the Baltic sea was called Wendish sea, if there is direct Cultural continuity in the south Baltic from bronze age to today, if all the authors from antiquity say that the inhabitants of the south Baltic are Wends who are Slavs who are Serbs who are Vandals, if even Germans (who don't particularly like Slavs and use Wend as a derogatory term for Slavs) say that wends (Slawen) lived in the south of Baltic, i think i will continue to "be claiming baltic peoples lands for the slavs".

funny you call yourself "Venet". Do you know who Venets were:

Baltic Sea was called many things in the past. It depended on who made the map, Greeks, Romans, Germanic or Baltic people?
Wends was always derogatory name among germanic peoples, because it was coined for any foreigner or enemy tribe in the past.
All Slavs use Shvab as derogatory meaning for German. It comes from hated germanic suabian tribe.

 

[how yes no 3]

It might be true, judging by almost full IE grammar. Same goes to Baltic family I suppose.

i would expect even more in Baltic languages...
though Slavic is probably also enriched with sarmatian /iranic words...

btw. see my post above...
i have edited matching words in serbian...
easily better match than combination of Bulgarian, old church slavonic and Slovenian

 

[LeBrok]

Well if Valdemar is Vladimir then Tryggvason could be Tryglavson.
Lots of Danish kings had a name of Valdemar, which was a Slavic name Vladimir, which according to the Danish historians, was changed from Slavic to Danish version. Why did Danish kings have Slavic names? This is because majority of the Danish population was in fact Slavic. there are many places in Scandinavia which still have Slavic names. Numerous Slavic forts were discovered in Denmark. There was a lot of intermarrying between the Wendish and the Danish ruling families throughout the medieval time. At that time this was done to strengthen the alliance between the two families, and considering that both the Slavs and the Danes were clan unions, this shows that actually there was a tribal alliance between at least some Slavic tribes and some Danish ones. The historical records show that this alliance actually existed and that the Slavs and Danes fought together against the Saxons who were waging a crusade against the pagans from the north. The things changed when Danes were Christianised and the Slavs didn’t. The Danes turned and joined the crusade and the all out war broke out which would last for a 150 years. Don’t think that this war was waged between genetically different people. It was a pure religious war where you had Slavs fighting on both sides. As a matter of fact some of the worst things during the war were done by the Christian Slavs who were the allies of the Danes. Eventually this led to the destruction of the Slavic states in the Baltic. The last pagan temple in Europe was destroyed in Arkona (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Arkona) .
What I am saying is that until arrival of Christianity into the Baltic region, there was actually a lot of cooperation between Danes and the Wends. And a lot of fighting as well, but that fighting was not Slavs against Danes. There were numerous groups and tribal unions which fought each other for power and quite often the wars involved Slavs fighting Slavs and Danes fighting Danes.

Once again, my point was that Danish/Norse Vikings were the dominant force in Baltic, from beginning till the end. There were Slavic/Polabians Vikings, (slavic name is Chąśnicy), they grew to some power around 11 century, but they were finaly and completely defeated by 1200 hundreds. The end of Slavic Vikings. There were also Baltic Vikings and Irish Vikings even Kiev Vikings, and the thing that united them was the Viking culture, how to built boats, how to fight on boats, and their lingua franka was Danish/Norse germanic language. Also this is where the Viking power survived till the end, in Denmark and Norway, and was transforemd to new countries of christian era. The viking stories survived mostly in Norse literature, and is part of there heritage and historic pride. For Slavic Pomeranians it was nothing special at all, "Chąśnicy" means Pirates.
All of this should tell you that Vikings was Norse phenomenon, pride and culture. Surely, there were other minorities involved in being Vikings, (similar as in many other multicultural empires), but this is just it, some minor involvement.

there are numerous historical sources that confirm that the Wends or Slavs lived all over Europe in antiquity, and now the genetic data is taking any doubt out of it. this however does not mean that Celts did not exist. it just means that Celts and Slavs were related, or the same people.

I must ask you to stop printing garbage like this (as moderator). You already posted it few times without shred of proof. We all read it and all said that we didn't agree with it and stopped shortly off calling it stupidity. Posting it again and again won't make it true nor will convince us otherwise. Please stop, and try using official nomenclature not to confuse people, if you didn't mean it.

 

[how yes no 3]

I claim Venet after the modern terminology as per the italian constitution, where the only other people ethnically in Italy as a popolo ( people) are sardinians and venets.Ancient Venet are linked with venetic culture which in italy by archeology is presently dated to 1050BC , there is no where else i see this.
They went from venetic to Polada culture to Este culture

Veneti are mentioned in ancient history data records...
they are mentioned as moving out from Paphlagonia in Asia minor to Europe....
this movement might or might not have been to Adriatic, but might have been in multiple directions...
in my opinion the name of proto-Slavic tribe Anti also come from these people....

When was it called wendish sea...please link
this is its original name The Baltic Sea, in ancient sources known as Mare Suebicum (also known as Mare Germanicum),[5

"mare Germanicum" is north sea not Baltic...
Baltic is "mare Suebicum"

So you claim vandals are slavs as well now? .............

they may have been R1a germanic...
their tribal name is derivation from PIE *uend which is as I propose and explain together with *suerb used for border lands by R1a people... it is not difficult to conceive that they started of as a mixture of east Europe R1a with proto-germanic and that after awhile germanic language prevailed....note that they are east germanic people hence on border between germaniic people and some ancestors of east european probably proto-Balto-Slavic people...

 

[LeBrok]

Dublin, please, link us again to the document where it states that "slavic crown was dug out from the grave, which (the grave and bones) were from before 500AD in Pomerania".

 

[razor]

The Venedi were still around when the tabula Peutingeriana was revised in the 4th c. (after the foundation of Constantinople). They are mentioned in two places. Check it out.

 

[zanipolo]

Veneti are mentioned in ancient history data records...
they are mentioned as moving out from Paphlagonia in Asia minor to Europe....
this movement might or might not have been to Adriatic, but might have been in multiple directions...
in my opinion the name of proto-Slavic tribe Anti also come from these people....


"mare Germanicum" is north sea not Baltic...
Baltic is "mare Suebicum"


they may have been R1a germanic...
their tribal name is derivation from PIE *uend which is as I propose and explain together with *suerb used for border lands by R1a people... it is not difficult to conceive that they started of as a mixture of east Europe R1a with proto-germanic and that after awhile germanic language prevailed....note that they are east germanic people hence on border between germaniic people and some ancestors of east european probably proto-Balto-Slavic people...

Veneti are mentioned in ancient history data records...
they are mentioned as moving out from Paphlagonia in Asia minor to Europe....
this movement might or might not have been to Adriatic, but might have been in multiple directions...
in my opinion the name of proto-Slavic tribe Anti also come from these people....

I do not believe in mythology......the Veneti IMO from what I know..............2 myth lines then the rest-
1- they came from bithynia in anatolia crossed into europe in 1270BC, went along the black sea to the danube, then along the danube to the sava river and started to mix with the "illyrians" of pannonia then moved to noricum, istria etc etc.
The eneti of homer in Paphlagonia are from the town of enete ( modern Sinope) and was wrongly mixed .... read properly what homer said. The thracians occupied bithynia after the veneti left.

2- They came from thuringia went down to the danube and headed to the black sea, they stopped at the sava river and turned westward and started to mix with the "illyrians" of pannonia then moved to noricum, istria etc etc.

around 1100BC or before they invaded Italy and pushed out the Eugenai ligurian people ( tribes like stoeni , camuni etc etc). The veneti at this time never reached the northern alps. The eugenai and veneti mixed and they all became veneti.
Around 500BC the gallic carni tribe came down from the alps and split the veneti in half - the italian side where latinized aroun 100BC and the slovenian side was slavized around 600AD. the carni became the friuli which is why their language has many many ancient gallic traits.
So, my history starts in the illyrian lands of noricum, pannonia, istria. tribes like catali

The 2007 ancient DNA found in the venetic peoples was R1b - M173 (62%) in veneto, the venetic in slovenia of R1b -M173 is 26%, in noricum its 21% and in istria its 19%, northern croatia its 16%. Clearly showing some later slavic migration which dilutes the original HG.
I assume this was not bought by the gallic carni and tauristic tribes, because I cannot find this marker in france or swiss

"mare Germanicum" is north sea not Baltic...
Baltic is "mare Suebicum"

I agree , just copied from site saying it was also called the other.

they may have been R1a germanic...
their tribal name is derivation from PIE *uend which is as I propose and explain together with *suerb used for border lands by R1a people... it is not difficult to conceive that they started of as a mixture of east Europe R1a with proto-germanic and that after awhile germanic language prevailed....note that they are east germanic people hence on border between germaniic people and some ancestors of east european probably proto-Balto-Slavic people...

the vandals where ( and I linked this before) whare a confederation of east-germanic tribes. They where usually referred to as Vindili

 

[zanipolo]

The Venedi were still around when the tabula Peutingeriana was revised in the 4th c. (after the foundation of Constantinople). They are mentioned in two places. Check it out.

can you link this?

 

[razor]

Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabula_Peutingeriana

Scroll down to the external links. look at e.g. the interactive version, and Segment VIII

 

[LeBrok]

The Venedi were still around when the tabula Peutingeriana was revised in the 4th c. (after the foundation of Constantinople). They are mentioned in two places. Check it out.

I would like to add, on this occasion, that I've read many historical articles in polish in relation with deciphering Vistula Venedi. So far the case is still open, and there is a vital lack of records and data, archaeological and written in general, to conclusively link Venedi with any language or culture. Various authors link Venedi with Slavic, Baltic, East Germanic, Celtic, Dacian or whatever with equally week arguments. On top of it Venedi of 1000BC, might have been of different culture and language than Venedi of 400AD, even the location could have shifted a lot. As we know, cultures and languages can change on same population over time. Sometimes what's left is just the name and most autosomal DNA.

 

[how yes no 3]

I would like to add, on this occasion, that I've read many historical articles in polish in relation with deciphering Vistula Venedi. So far the case is still open, and there is a vital lack of records and data, archaeological and written in general, to conclusively link Venedi with any language or culture. Various authors link Venedi with Slavic, Baltic, East Germanic, Celtic, Dacian or whatever with equally week arguments. On top of it Venedi of 1000BC, might have been of different culture and language than Venedi of 400AD, even the location could have shifted a lot. As we know, cultures and languages can change on same population over time. Sometimes what's left is just the name and most autosomal DNA.

that makes sense to me as i suppose it was just used for various "border people" in R1a variant of PIE language.... perhaps even not only in R1a speakers.... border people are also the ones who are most likely to change ethnicity and language...as they are in between different cultures and often have genetics from both and use words of both...

e.g. in east Serbia there is Timočka krajina (kraj = end krajina = end land / border land) where many people origin from Vlachs but see themselves as Serbs... they are perfectly biligual, their names are Serbian last names Serbian or with Serbian ending, they speak fluently as mother tongue both Serbian and Valachian (close to Romanian).... if by any chance they live in Romania they would see themselves as Romanians... that's what often happens in border areas between nations that live in peace for long time... people of mixed origin and naturally bilingual....