Are South Slavs more Balkan Native than Slavic?

[Lenab]

Based on toponymy & language contacts. We'd be talking more about the very southern tip of the Carpathians though - more like the region of present day Serbia.

There's a lot about this that can be debated of course, but at least it's a model and not just political myth-making. There was never any real reaosn to believe that Albanian descends from Illyrian.

The Illyrians were from Rome it doesn't even make sense that they would descend from Illyrians

 

[Fatherland]

And you don't live in Albania and you're arguably a Albanian nationalist.

But you're only 1/8 Serb, with extreme Serbian radical views, that's the problem.

 

[markod]

The Illyrians were from Rome it doesn't even make sense that they would descend from Illyrians

Yeah, the Illyrian language probably died in antiquity.

I would like to see ancient Illyrian remains tested for DNA, there are so many elite graves that haven't even been excavated propery. I mean I have no doubts that they'll be very similar to modern Albanians but still.

 

[Dibran]

You live in Britain according to flag, are 1/8 Serbian and arguably one of the biggest radical Serbo-nationalists.

All it takes is 1/8th and the genome is compromised lol.

 

[Lenab]

But you're only 1/8 Serb, with extreme Serbian radical views, that's the problem.

I don't have radical Serbian views I resent being called an idiot by an idiot who can't be bothered to Google search megalithic migration to the West Balkans Christ it's so simple a Monkey could do it. Some moron who doesn't even live in Italy and thinks Italians look English because they used some hard faced Nordic looking model with a big nose to pull off looking Roman ha ha

I resent being called a Serbian nationalist when I have had a Croatian boyfriend in the past and also more than anything else I don't think that Albanians descend from Illyrians.

No Albanian ethnic group has matches to the Tuscany or Milan region or any of North Central Italy.

You match up with North Greeks South Italians and Serbs.

Just because you are not Illyrian doesn't mean that you are not European what part of that is difficult to understand. To say that's a attack is retarded too. I have never attacked or threatened any Albanians here or threatened them with their lives I think you would all notice if I did that

 

[Wonomyro]

However, given the yDNA distribution in Slovenia and Croatia vs Serbia for example, one can see that the Slavic specific R1a and I2 occur at higher frequencies in the former. There's also significantly more R1b in Slovenia.
So the territory of Serbia must have had a higher population of Balkan-specific natives.

IMO, that could be partly explained with the fact that Slovenian lands had German lords since 9th century, as opposite to Croatia which preserved its own Slavic nobility during the same period of time.

 

[Angela]

This thread is starting to go downhill. The last thing I want to do is read it and have to moderate it so cool it down.

A bit of advice: phenotype and even craniotomy are far too imprecise, and thus most conclusions are extremely subjective. They're also subject to environmental factors as well, and drift. We now have dna, especially ancient dna. The papers exist which answer a lot of these questions. As we get more ancient dna the picture will become even clearer.

Anyone who hasn't read those papers and understood them isn't worth engaging.

 

[Fatherland]

I don't have radical Serbian views I resent being called an idiot by an idiot who can't be bothered to Google search megalithic migration to the West Balkans Christ it's so simple a Monkey could do it. Some moron who doesn't even live in Italy and thinks Italians look English because they used some hard faced Nordic looking model with a big nose to pull off looking Roman ha ha

I resent being called a Serbian nationalist when I have had a Croatian boyfriend in the past and also more than anything else I don't think that Albanians descend from Illyrians.

No Albanian ethnic group has matches to the Tuscany or Milan region or any of North Central Italy.

You match up with North Greeks South Italians and Serbs.

Just because you are not Illyrian doesn't mean that you are not European what part of that is difficult to understand. To say that's a attack is retarded too. I have never attacked or threatened any Albanians here or threatened them with their lives I think you would all notice if I did that

Albanians are close to Tuscans, not South Italians. South Italians are closer to islander Greeks.

You need a psychiatrist, like the other poster mentioned to you.

Welcome to my ignore list.

 

[Lenab]

Yeah, the Illyrian language probably died in antiquity.

I would like to see ancient Illyrian remains tested for DNA, there are so many elite graves that haven't even been excavated propery. I mean I have no doubts that they'll be very similar to modern Albanians but still.

It would be more present in North Central Italians than Albanians. Out of all the Albanian samples I have seen personally, apart from the ones Fatherland printed out which has some Romanian matches? I have seen one who had Serbian as a first match and the other person had North Greek Macedonia as a first match.

No Albanian in the history of any Albanians getting dna tests would match up with Illyrians. They live in a historical part of land which is labelled Illyria that doesn't mean they descend from Illyrians.

 

[Lenab]

Albanians are close to Tuscans, not South Italians. South Italians are closer to islander Greeks.

You need a psychiatrist, like the other poster mentioned to you.

Welcome to ignore list.

No Albanian has ever matched with Tuscany directly one of your Albanian samples that you given the plotting map of Albanian samples was close to Abruzzo actually probably just as close if not closer than what I am.

I have never seen a Albanian match dead on Tuscany ever.

 

[markod]

No Albanian has ever matched with Tuscany directly one of your Albanian samples that you given the plotting map of Albanian samples was close to Abruzzo actually probably just as close if not closer than what I am.

I have never seen a Albanian match dead on Tuscany ever.

No way to tell before we get ancient DNA. The Illyrians themselves could have been recent invaders in the Western Balkans. Hopefully politics doesn't get in the way of testing.

 

[Dibran]

I don't have radical Serbian views I resent being called an idiot by an idiot who can't be bothered to Google search megalithic migration to the West Balkans Christ it's so simple a Monkey could do it. Some moron who doesn't even live in Italy and thinks Italians look English because they used some hard faced Nordic looking model with a big nose to pull off looking Roman ha ha

I resent being called a Serbian nationalist when I have had a Croatian boyfriend in the past and also more than anything else I don't think that Albanians descend from Illyrians.

No Albanian ethnic group has matches to the Tuscany or Milan region or any of North Central Italy.

You match up with North Greeks South Italians and Serbs.

Just because you are not Illyrian doesn't mean that you are not European what part of that is difficult to understand. To say that's a attack is retarded too. I have never attacked or threatened any Albanians here or threatened them with their lives I think you would all notice if I did that

You're really pushing the limit of that 1/8th of your genome lolol.

You're full of it. Albanians match Tuscans and Greeks more than Serbs. Hell, most of my matches and admixture make me out as predominantly Tuscan with some Greek when there is no Albanian reference. Best to leave genetics to those more suited to discuss these matters!

Even the admins agree you're naught but a t-roll with no substantiating evidence or even anything that can amount to supporting the drivel you spit.

Albanians are paternally descended in majority from Illyrians by YDNA. Genetics has proven it. Just because it aggravates 1/8th of you doesn't justify your baseless claims.

You're definitely not Illyrian. Albanians by YDNA and even autosomally more than anything, are natives. It doesn't fit your agenda, boo hoo. cry me a river, build me a bridge, and get over it.

 

[Lenab]

You're really pushing the limit of that 1/8th of your genome lolol.

You're full of it. Albanians match Tuscans and Greeks more than Serbs. Hell, most of my matches and admixture make me out as predominantly Tuscan with some Greek when there is no Albanian reference. Best to leave genetics to those more suited to discuss these matters!

Even the admins agree you're naught but a t-roll with no substantiating evidence or even anything that can amount to supporting the drivel you spit.

Albanians are paternally descended in majority from Illyrians by YDNA. Genetics has proven it. Just because it aggravates 1/8th of you doesn't justify your baseless claims.

You're definitely not Illyrian. Albanians by YDNA and even autosomally more than anything, are natives. It doesn't fit your agenda, boo hoo. cry me a river, build me a bridge, and get over it.

Prove it, prove that Albanians plot next to Tuscany give me an Albanian sample that plots on Tuscany or in Rome then I promise you, I will eat my words.

 

[LABERIA]

That can be easily explained if Albanian was spoken in Moesia or more specifically the southern half of Moesia, and Ancient Macedonian was indeed, as many authors claim, a Northwest Greek dialect closely related to Doric.

There is no consensus among scholars about ancient Macedonian language:

Classification

Due to the fragmentary attestation of this language or dialect, various interpretations are possible.^{[10][page needed]} Suggested phylogenetic classifications of Macedonian include:^[11]

• A Greek dialect, part of the North-Western (Locrian, Aetolian, Phocidian, Epirote) variants of Doric Greek, suggested amongst others by N.G.L. Hammond (1989) Olivier Masson (1996), Michael Meier-Brügger (2003), Johannes Engels (2010), and Hatzopoulos (2011).^{[12][13][14][15][16]}
• A northern Greek dialect, related to Aeolic Greek and Thessalian, suggested among others by A.Fick (1874) and O.Hoffmann (1906).^[12][17]
• An aberrant form of Greek, with borrowings from Illyrian and Thracian.^[18]
• A Greek dialect with a non-Indo-European substratal influence, suggested by M. Sakellariou (1983) and Hatzopoulos (2011).^[19]
• A sibling language of Greek within Indo-European, according to a scheme in which Macedonian and Greek are the two branches of a Greco-Macedonian subgroup (sometimes called "Hellenic")^[20] suggested by Joseph (2001), Georgiev (1966),^[8] and Hamp & Adams (2013).^[21]
• An Indo-European language that is a close cousin to Attic Greek and also related to Thracian and Phrygian languages, suggested by A. Meillet (1913) and I. I. Russu (1938),^[22] or part of a Sprachbund encompassing Thracian, Illyrian and Greek (Kretschmer 1896, E. Schwyzer 1959).
• An Illyrian dialect mixed with Greek, suggested by K. O. Müller (1825) and by G. Bonfante (1987).^{[citation needed]}

Science is not like the democracy where the majority decide with vote.

Macedonia is not very far at all from southern Moesia. The assumption that Albanian must mot have been originally in a very southerly place in the Western Balkans comes, among other reasons, from the fact that Albanian was profoundly changed by Latin superstrate, even some would say partially Romanized. But Latin only became a really dominant mother tongue for most of the local Balkanites roughly north of Macedonia and Epirus. Greek was used even by the Romans themselves in the southern And southeastern Balkans. And the relationships with Eastern Proto-Romance, which probably arose not in present day Romania, but roughly in Serbia and its surroundings, also indicate a homeland a bit farther from the Adriatic (the lack of maritime vocabulary also suggests that) and north of the Greek-dominated area, bu not too much because the language was also exposed to contacts with Greek and Western Proto-Romance. Moesia, including present day Kosovo, would fit these linguistic hintsvreally well.

Macedonian and Epirotes were barabarians, i.e. non-greek. There were greek colonies for example in Epir. But when the region was invaded by Romans, the first inscriptions in Latin begin. After the edict of Milan of the year 313, also in the territory of Albania begins the spread of Christianity. The most ancient Christian terminology in Albanian is derived from the Latin, but then begins its withdrawal and replacement from Greek. Greek return again as the only language after the year 475.

 

[Lenab]

No way to tell before we get ancient DNA. The Illyrians themselves could have been recent invaders in the Western Balkans. Hopefully politics doesn't get in the way of testing.

It's not would you like to see my sample and how close to Tuscany I am it was my second and third match. I don't claim to be Illyrian either how silly it would be like a Greek claiming to be the descendants of Alexander the Great's army the Mongoloid races of people descending from the Hun's etc it's baseless and besides ​they don't plot on Tuscany Rome or Milan

 

[markod]

Macedonian and Epirotes were barabarians, i.e. non-greek.

Now you're just being dishonest.

 

[Fatherland]

There is no consensus among scholars about ancient Macedonian language:

Science is not like the democracy where the majority decide with vote.

Macedonian and Epirotes were barabarians, i.e. non-greek. There were greek colonies for example in Epir. But when the region was invaded by Romans, the first inscriptions in Latin begin. After the edict of Milan of the year 313, also in the territory of Albania begins the spread of Christianity. The most ancient Christian terminology in Albanian is derived from the Latin, but then begins its withdrawal and replacement from Greek. Greek return again as the only language after the year 475.

Correct.

And the notorious letter from our mighty, celebrated Lord Skanderbeg to Prince of Taranto:

 

[Lenab]

I think you need to speak the YT user who made this video

His Greek side is from Epirus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK71dEdn7mY

 

[Dibran]

Prove it, prove that Albanians plot next to Tuscany give me an Albanian sample that plots on Tuscany or in Rome then I promise you, I will eat my words.

There. Proven. With my own sample. Now eat your words, and go to the corner. You're on time out.

 

[LABERIA]

Maybe i am wrong but i have the impression that we have people with more than one account who are ruining this thread. I hope someone of the mods investigate this issue.