'Albanian YDNA Project' 2020 analysis of J-PH1751 & 2018 Description of R-2705

[Parapolitikos]

Anyone here from Rrenjet project ? I'd like to ask about a specific sample on Yfull.
Thanks!
Since Albanians have very similar levels of steppe+slavic with (native) Northern Greeks if there are height differences between them specifically nutrition could be a reason though I don't know if there's been any Greek study about the diet and the caloric intake of the latter since their incorporation in the Greek state until now.

Mediterranean people are more flexible developmentally and their growth is conditional to environmental factors. Naturally as the droughts created frequent cycles of food shortages that could last for years. Fetus and infants that would grow according to the food scarcity or not had better chances of surviving famimes and spreading their genes.
Yet as food became more abundant with industrial agriculture on avarage Greeks gained 15-20 cm in the last 70-80 years. Young Greeks today probably avarage around ,1,80.
An alternative explanation is that developmental regression was caused by the mainly plant based diets, or starvation mimicking diets followed for religious reasons (that last almost 60% of the year) and was reversed as milk , eggs and meat consumption increased and faithfulness to fasting periods waved down. So it was caused by nutrient deficient diets and not necessarily less quontities of food.

 

[bigsnake49]

One of the skeletons excavated in Mycene was close to 180 cm and was rather sturdy meaning that the man was muscular possibly a warrior. There is a thread on this site that has references to the study.

 

[Ralphie Boy]

Albanian J2a is very interesting, in particular J-L70, that has some Albanians with very old branches. They are together with Italians and Turks, but with very old MRCA’s. Wondering if some of their ancestors came with the Romans or were in the Balkans long before, coming from Anatolia. It looks like they could have come sooner.

 

[real expert]

One of the skeletons excavated in Mycene was close to 180 cm and was rather sturdy meaning that the man was muscular possibly a warrior. There is a thread on this site that has references to the study.

The confirmed skeleton of King Philip II of Macedon, the father of Alexander the Great, was found several years ago. Measuring at a height of 1.80 cm (around 6 feet) he was a pretty tall fellow.

 

[gjergj]

As of now J2a in Albania seems to have a bronze age distribution and surprisingly does not seem to have clades in common with Greeks. It has a descent distribution/presence from south Albania up to Tirana region.
Youl can find more samples than in Yfull for albanians at this project: www.rrenjet.com

Albanian J2a is very interesting, in particular J-L70, that has some Albanians with very old branches. They are together with Italians and Turks, but with very old MRCA’s. Wondering if some of their ancestors came with the Romans or were in the Balkans long before, coming from Anatolia. It looks like they could have come sooner.

 

[gjergj]

Inbox not working

sample is from Libohova, south Albania.
Seems to be rare in the Albanian population and balkans as well.

Anyone here from Rrenjet project ? I'd like to ask about a specific sample on Yfull.
Thanks!



Since Albanians have very similar levels of steppe+slavic with (native) Northern Greeks if there are height differences between them specifically nutrition could be a reason though I don't know if there's been any Greek study about the diet and the caloric intake of the latter since their incorporation in the Greek state until now.

 

[cybernautic]

Heredotus had ears and a mouth - he can communicate with people that ran into thracians who described what they looked like to him
Next you will say ancient greeks werent short, dark skinned and black haired even though every single ancient historian says it even ancient greeks themselves and the romans

Ancient Mycanaeans were dark skinned and black haired but not short rather medium in height.

They got shorter after the intrusion of foreign Non Greek Balkanians such as Albanians

 

[TetaEglantina]

Anyone here from Rrenjet project ? I'd like to ask about a specific sample on Yfull.
Thanks!



Since Albanians have very similar levels of steppe+slavic with (native) Northern Greeks if there are height differences between them specifically nutrition could be a reason though I don't know if there's been any Greek study about the diet and the caloric intake of the latter since their incorporation in the Greek state until now.

Greeks didnt grow up in communism and actually greeks have more south slavic y dna

 

[cybernautic]

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[TetaEglantina]

Ancient Mycanaeans were dark skinned and black haired but not short rather medium in height.
They got shorter after the intrusion of foreign Non Greek Balkanians such as Albanians

Or persians, maybe romans. Unless you suggest that v13 is generally a shorter line and since greece has had plenty of v13 after mycaneans its what made them shorter? Other lines could be z2103 but it wont be l283 because that isnt common in greece

Its more likely that with influx of intrusive "foreigners" to a settled region usually comes hard times so less food was available for kids

 

[TetaEglantina]

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[cybernautic]

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[TetaEglantina]

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[blevins13]

'Albanian YDNA Project' 2020 analysis of J-PH1751 & 2018 Description of R-2705

Ancient Mycanaeans were dark skinned and black haired but not short rather medium in height.

They got shorter after the intrusion of foreign Non Greek Balkanians such as Albanians

Beautiful conclusion. Albanians are responsible also for shortening Greeks. These discussions are infinitely hilarious.


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

 

[gjergj]

Y slavic % among albanian is in average 15%. of course it changes with regions up or down. % is higher on the eastern regions and south albania bordering greece. Kukes reflects that average more or less, but it has more R1a and far less I dinaric compare to the national average though.
Albanian have the lowest slavic % compare to other balkan nations. Even greeks are close to 25% of Y slavic dna.
But I am missing the point in the conversation though.

Ah I can see now from where you confusion stems from. You conflate regions and districts with the same namet. And those ARE the data of rrenjett.Per district that is.
Kukes region has 3 districts .
One of them is the Kukes district.
Onother one, of Kukes' districts, is Tropoje which has the highest consentration of Gheg genetics in Albania. Next door Kukes district on the other hand, in spite its proximity with Tropoje has among the lowest Gheg genetics(irrespective of the language they speak). Which are at odds with all northern Albanian districts minus the coastal areas.It seems Kukes district was one of the least affected from the Gheg migrations.Thus holds vital information of the North Albanian population before the arrival of Ghegs.
You should study more the data of rrenjet instead of making baseless accusations.

Ps the R1a rate in Kukes district is as I said 15%
4/26=15.4%, and for E-m123= 3/26= 11.5% https://rrenjet.com/databaza-publike/

 

[lacreme]

Greeks didnt grow up in communism and actually greeks have more south slavic y dna

The comparison I made was about autosomal dna, not Ydna. Could the latter which is not only applicable to males only but also is a miniscule amount of the total dna really be the sole or even the main reason for the differentiation of traits like height of 2 so similar populations (mainland Greeks, Albanians ) ? Nutrition as you said but also genetic heritability and environmental reasons sound -to me- more reasonable.


On to the point , the correlation of nutrition with height, Parapolitikos made a very interesting comment on #141

 

[Hawk]

Matzinger will soon publish a book on Illyrians: https://www.morawa.at/detail/ISBN-9783170377097/Lippert-Andreas/Die-Illyrer

I am curious to know what he consider as ancestral cultural group to Illyrians.

 

[Dushman]

The comparison I made was about autosomal dna, not Ydna. Could the latter which is not only applicable to males only but also is a miniscule amount of the total dna really be the sole or even the main reason for the differentiation of traits like height of 2 so similar populations (mainland Greeks, Albanians ) ? Nutrition as you said but also genetic heritability and environmental reasons sound -to me- more reasonable.


On to the point , the correlation of nutrition with height, Parapolitikos made a very interesting comment on #141

Sorry, I?m a bit confused here.

Are you trying to say that Albanians and Peloponnesians are so
similar yet Peloponnesians are taller?

 

[broder]

As of now J2a in Albania seems to have a bronze age distribution and surprisingly does not seem to have clades in common with Greeks. It has a descent distribution/presence from south Albania up to Tirana region.
Youl can find more samples than in Yfull for albanians at this project:

Pure nonsense, just goes to show how much you know. ‘Himara Cluster’ will have matches in Greece, especially Crete. Some other clusters seem like just pure Vlah/Aromanian clusters, like Y24651 samples for example. Some came with Ottomans Etc…

 

[gjergj]

Well, you say ""Himara Cluster" will have matches in Greece, especially Crete". As of know they don't. If in the future they "will have" any matches that will connect them with ancient Greeks of course that should be pointed out. The same goes for most J2a clades that have been identified so far in the Albanian population through Rrenjet Project (www.rrenjet.com). And for this there is no need to argue with me. Look at results in Yfull. Argue with them.
So for now lets stick to "conclusions" based on current facts and not "assumptions" based on wishful thinking.

Pure nonsense, just goes to show how much you know. ‘Himara Cluster’ will have matches in Greece, especially Crete. Some other clusters seem like just pure Vlah/Aromanian clusters, like Y24651 samples for example. Some came with Ottomans Etc…