Ancient Rome Test (Various Calculators)

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]Duarte[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFBE00, align: right"]9.42408706[/TD]
[TD]C7_European_Average[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #7300FF, align: right"]26.60322211[/TD]
[TD]C6_Mediterranean_Average[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #6B00FF, align: right"]26.83845095[/TD]
[TD]C2_Neolithic/Sardinian-like_Average[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]35.44290902[/TD]
[TD]C3_North_African_Average[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]39.53948901[/TD]
[TD]C5_Eastern_Mediterranean_Average[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]43.30225129[/TD]
[TD]C1_Central_Italian_Mesolithic[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]52.83308037[/TD]
[TD]C4_Near_Eastern_Average[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

hA0hlhG.jpg

SGKDt9X.jpg


[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]Duarte[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFF600, align: right"]7.77007139[/TD]
[TD]C7_Iron_Age_European_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFAB00, align: right"]9.97076328[/TD]
[TD]C7_Late_Antiquity_European_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF7B00, align: right"]11.38872721[/TD]
[TD]C7_Medieval_European_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0007, align: right"]15.21024326[/TD]
[TD]C7_Imperial_Roman_European_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00CF, align: right"]21.07959677[/TD]
[TD]C2_Late_Antiquity_Sardinian-like(R104)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C200FF, align: right"]24.28853494[/TD]
[TD]C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9500FF, align: right"]25.61263381[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #5800FF, align: right"]27.41258203[/TD]
[TD]C2_Neolithic_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #5200FF, align: right"]27.57527516[/TD]
[TD]C6_Iron_Age_Mediterranean(R437)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #1D00FF, align: right"]29.15983095[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Roman_Mediterranean_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]33.86057796[/TD]
[TD]C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]35.44290902[/TD]
[TD]C3_Imperial_Roman_North_African_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]39.59987626[/TD]
[TD]C5_Iron_Age_Eastern_Mediterranean(R850)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]40.83028406[/TD]
[TD]C5_Imperial_Roman_Eastern_Mediterranean_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]43.30225129[/TD]
[TD]C1_C_Italian_Mesolithic_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]52.83308037[/TD]
[TD]C4_Imperial_Roman_Near_Eastern_Avrg
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

OyCjGJz.jpg

A5UIiF5.jpg
 
Thanks Jovialis :)

cInuwtA.jpg



lzb8Nvx.jpg
 

[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: Carlos
Distance: 0.6546% / 0.65459439
[/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]59.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]C7_European_Average[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]23.2[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]C2_Neolithic/Sardinian-like_Average[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]14.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]C1_Central_Italian_Mesolithic[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]2.2[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]C6_Mediterranean_Average[/TD]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Carlos[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #91FF00, align: right"]4.26373527[/TD]
[TD]C7_European_Average[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #3000FF, align: right"]28.59866192[/TD]
[TD]C2_Neolithic/Sardinian-like_Average[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0200FF, align: right"]29.95095313[/TD]
[TD]C6_Mediterranean_Average[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]40.21368839[/TD]
[TD]C1_Central_Italian_Mesolithic[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]40.38828419[/TD]
[TD]C3_North_African_Average[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]43.26260171[/TD]
[TD]C5_Eastern_Mediterranean_Average[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]56.84769656[/TD]
[TD]C4_Near_Eastern_Average
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]



[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: Carlos
Distance: 0.5202% / 0.52022567
[/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]29.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]C7_Imperial_Roman_European_Avrg[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]19.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]C7_Iron_Age_European_Avrg[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]13.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]C1_C_Italian_Mesolithic_Avrg[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]10.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean_Avrg[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]8.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]C2_Neolithic_Avrg[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]7.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]C7_Medieval_European_Avrg[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]7.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]C2_Late_Antiquity_Sardinian-like(R104)[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]2.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]C5_Imperial_Roman_Eastern_Mediterranean_Avrg[/TD]


[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Carlos[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9BFF00, align: right"]4.55094873[/TD]
[TD]C7_Iron_Age_European_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D1FF00, align: right"]6.14749825[/TD]
[TD]C7_Late_Antiquity_European_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E6FF00, align: right"]6.75727138[/TD]
[TD]C7_Medieval_European_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFD000, align: right"]8.89077050[/TD]
[TD]C7_Imperial_Roman_European_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00D3, align: right"]21.21927190[/TD]
[TD]C2_Late_Antiquity_Sardinian-like(R104)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #5300FF, align: right"]27.56160245[/TD]
[TD]C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #2300FF, align: right"]28.96871140[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #1900FF, align: right"]29.25888635[/TD]
[TD]C2_Neolithic_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]30.87690885[/TD]
[TD]C6_Iron_Age_Mediterranean(R437)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]32.53154511[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Roman_Mediterranean_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]37.66025385[/TD]
[TD]C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]40.21368839[/TD]
[TD]C1_C_Italian_Mesolithic_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]40.38828419[/TD]
[TD]C3_Imperial_Roman_North_African_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]43.38610031[/TD]
[TD]C5_Iron_Age_Eastern_Mediterranean(R850)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]44.53868957[/TD]
[TD]C5_Imperial_Roman_Eastern_Mediterranean_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]56.84769656[/TD]
[TD]C4_Imperial_Roman_Near_Eastern_Avrg
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
I wonder about the low quality of R850 sample (about 40%),

about 60% missing ... what if he's substantially different, ... or not :)
 
Salento said:
I wonder about the low quality of R850 sample (about 40%),

about 60% missing, ... what if he's substantially different, ... or not :)
Click to expand...

We certainly need to see more samples.

I think the fact that R437 is C6, and is present in the Iron age, proves that this kind of ancestry was there in Italy since at least the Iron Age. I wonder if this kind of ancestry was more prevalent, than the sample set of Antonio M. et al suggests, during that time. That is the kind of ancestry that ultimately became the majority in the middle ages. Moreover, it was 28% of the Imperial samples in this sample set. I also wonder if other clusters are over represented as well. More studies, with more samples, of this kind will be required to get a better answer.

I think the fact that R1 can be modeled as 35% C6, shows that there may have been admixture between C6 and C7 very early on.
 
Jovialis said:
We certainly need to see more samples.

I think the fact that R437 is C6, and is present in the Iron age, proves that this kind of ancestry was there in Italy since at least the Iron Age. I wonder if this kind of ancestry was more prevalent, than the sample set of Antonio M. et al suggests, during that time. That is the kind of ancestry that ultimately became the majority in the middle ages. Moreover, it was 28% of the Imperial samples in this sample set. I also wonder if other clusters are over represented as well. More studies, with more samples, of this kind will be required to get a better answer.

I think the fact that R1 can be modeled as 35% C6, shows that there may have been admixture between C6 and C7 very early on.
Click to expand...

All things considered, we’re very close to many C6 samples, and the various calculator distances may show that we haven't changed much in the last 2500 years. I think.
 
Jovialis: Thanks again, great data. Salento, I agree, I get <=3.5 on 4 C6 samples. So lots of genetic continuity there for us whose ancestors are from South of Rome. Again, very informative data Jovialis. Well done and thanks again. PT

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]PalermoTrapani[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #53FF00, align: right"]2.45125577[/TD]
[TD]C6_Mediterranean_Average[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5200, align: right"]12.57761013[/TD]
[TD]C5_Eastern_Mediterranean_Average[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF002D, align: right"]16.31467744[/TD]
[TD]C3_North_African_Average[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #AD00FF, align: right"]24.90321421[/TD]
[TD]C2_Neolithic/Sardinian-like_Average[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #8200FF, align: right"]26.17154952[/TD]
[TD]C4_Near_Eastern_Average[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]30.60688046[/TD]
[TD]C7_European_Average[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]68.74784070[/TD]
[TD]C1_Central_Italian_Mesolithic[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: PalermoTrapani
Distance: 0.5696% / 0.56964313 | ADC: 0.25x

[/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]83.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]C6_Mediterranean_Average[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]6.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]C5_Eastern_Mediterranean_Average[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]5.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]C2_Neolithic/Sardinian-like_Average[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]4.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]C3_North_African_Average[/TD]



[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]PalermoTrapani[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #1DFF00, align: right"]0.83982141[/TD]
[TD]C6_Iron_Age_Mediterranean(R437)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #63FF00, align: right"]2.90416417[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #73FF00, align: right"]3.38699051[/TD]
[TD]C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #78FF00, align: right"]3.51913522[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Roman_Mediterranean_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F0FF00, align: right"]7.06617294[/TD]
[TD]C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF4C00, align: right"]12.76678111[/TD]
[TD]C5_Iron_Age_Eastern_Mediterranean(R850)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF2700, align: right"]13.84948821[/TD]
[TD]C5_Imperial_Roman_Eastern_Mediterranean_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF002D, align: right"]16.31467744[/TD]
[TD]C3_Imperial_Roman_North_African_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B600FF, align: right"]24.64782499[/TD]
[TD]C2_Neolithic_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #8200FF, align: right"]26.17154952[/TD]
[TD]C4_Imperial_Roman_Near_Eastern_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #7600FF, align: right"]26.52155697[/TD]
[TD]C7_Iron_Age_European_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0900FF, align: right"]29.74379921[/TD]
[TD]C7_Late_Antiquity_European_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]30.22652974[/TD]
[TD]C2_Late_Antiquity_Sardinian-like(R104)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]32.86746537[/TD]
[TD]C7_Medieval_European_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]39.42376187[/TD]
[TD]C7_Imperial_Roman_European_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]68.74784070[/TD]
[TD]C1_C_Italian_Mesolithic_Avrg[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]



[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: PalermoTrapani
Distance: 0.4092% / 0.40923717 | ADC: 0.25x

[/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]84.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]C6_Iron_Age_Mediterranean(R437)[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]6.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean_Avrg[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]4.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean_Avrg[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]4.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]C3_Imperial_Roman_North_African_Avrg[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.2[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]C2_Neolithic_Avrg[/TD]
 
Jovialis said:
Most Italians are positioned between the a cline of C7 and C6 averages.

ctFeXj7.png
Click to expand...

It makes sense for me. My closest samples are about 75% European average/25% Mediterranean average, on average. :)
 
Angela said:
It makes sense for me. My closest samples are about 75% European average/25% Mediterranean average, on average. :)
Click to expand...

That is roughly in the ballpark of R1, I think the same will be true for other Italics tribes, more or less.

mP8wDnt.jpg
 
Jovialis said:
Most Italians are positioned between the a cline of C7 and C6 averages.

ctFeXj7.png
Click to expand...


And the ancient Romans would be endless combinations with all the avarages out there, right?
 
Carlos said:
And the ancient Romans would be endless combinations with all the avarages out there, right?
Click to expand...

I speculate the majority of Italians since the Iron Age and into Roman Italy are primarily between C7 and C6, as they are today. The Etruscans and many of the Latins, at least according to the study are closer to the European C7 average. But if R1 is representative of the Italics, they were at least a quarter to 1/3rd Mediterranean; one of the Etruscans too (R474) as per my chart. Perhaps C6 increased among the Italics the further south you go, Idk. I would like to see Samnite samples for example. In addition to that, R850 was almost 100% Eastern Mediterranean C5, so that element existed back then and continued on into Late Antiquity. Sicilians, and many other southern Italians are pulled a bit towards C5. Maybe C5 was eventually absorbed by C6 in those areas.
 
Jovialis said:
Most Italians are positioned between the a cline of C7 and C6 averages.

ctFeXj7.png
Click to expand...
which is north-west Italian and which is north-east Italian from the above noted N_Italian and North_Italian

I know that O_Italian ( other italians ) are 2 samples found , one from east-Austria and one from Ukraine
 
N_Italian is Bergamo, Northern Lombardia.

North_Italian are Dodecad members with all four grandparents from Northern Italy in general. I know for a certainty there are Lombards in there. I don't know if there are people from the Veneto, but I would assume from things I've heard that there are.
 
Jovialis said:
I speculate the majority of Italians since the Iron Age and into Roman Italy are primarily between C7 and C6, as they are today. The Etruscans and many of the Latins, at least according to the study are closer to the European C7 average. But if R1 is representative of the Italics, they were at least a quarter to 1/3rd Mediterranean; one of the Etruscans too (R474) as per my chart. Perhaps C6 increased among the Italics the further south you go, Idk. I would like to see Samnite samples for example. In addition to that, R850 was almost 100% Eastern Mediterranean C5, so that element existed back then and continued on into Late Antiquity. Sicilians, and many other southern Italians are pulled a bit towards C5. Maybe C5 was eventually absorbed by C6 in those areas.
Click to expand...


Okay at least it's more than you could imagine a decade ago.

I repeat the operation and I get C3 and C4 as noise 0.8 and 0.2, I repeat the single and only C3 is left with 1.4 or C3 and C4 disappear again if I do it again, it's funny how to be on the razor's edge with those two samples. With them I have the cycle completed and I lower the distance from 0.52 to 0.51.
 
Carlos said:
Okay at least it's more than you could imagine a decade ago.

I repeat the operation and I get C3 and C4 as noise 0.8 and 0.2, I repeat the single and only C3 is left with 1.4 or C3 and C4 disappear again if I do it again, it's funny how to be on the razor's edge with those two samples. With them I have the cycle completed and I lower the distance from 0.52 to 0.51.
Click to expand...

Present-day North Africans are actually quite far from the ones represented in the paper:

X8ZDfLX.png
 
Jovialis said:
Present-day North Africans are actually quite far from the ones represented in the paper:

X8ZDfLX.png
Click to expand...


Yes of course it is to be assumed, I imagine that the same will happen for so many modern territories with a long historical past. Getting an ancient combination that survives to this day must be almost a miracle.
 
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