K12 Autosomal map : Southwest Asian admixture (from Dodecad)

I know majorca are of catalan descent, someone else said there was no phoenicians in catalan lands.

Did you read the link .....Phoenicians are J2 and basically nothing else.

Insignificant ?. depends on how long they stayed, what was there association with its neighbours etc etc.
besides , they ended up being the carthagians in the western Med. Catagians , a mix of phoenicians, libyans, numidians and maybe even sardinians and sicilians

The Phoenicians established a few small and self contained trading territories in parts of southern Spain and southern Portugal. They also founded Lisbon (Ollisipo), which did not become a population center of any import until many centuries after the Phoenicians departed. There is no evidence suggesting that Phoenicians mixed freely with native Iberians. It is unlikely that they had much direct genetic impact on Iberia.
 
Interesting point, it makes sense.
 
You're absolutely right. Much J1 in West Asian is Southwest Asian. There is a lot J1 Semitic, from the ancient Assyrians, Jews and Arabs.
But there's also some native Caucasian J1 that was never in Southwest Asia. So I think we can better consider it as a West Asian subclade.

I truly believe that some E is Southwest Asian and again from the Assyrians & Jews.
Some people believe that the lost 10 tribes of Israel settled in the Mesopotamia!

The J1 in Assyrians is mostly the Anatolian native type (J1* DYS388 = 13), which is also found among other Anatolian/Caucasian populations and peaks in the Caucasus, the Semitic J1 type (J1c3d) is actually rare among them, but about 5% or so carry haplogroup E1b1b1c1 which is the E that originated in the Levant and was responsible (Along with J1c3d) for the Semitic languages, so if anything, I would say this paternal lineage was mostly responsible for bringing the Semitic language to the native Assyrians who mostly happen to carry R1b (Though a good chunk of it is similar to the European kind), J1*, J2a, and T.
 
It doesn't matter. There is no label on the genes that says "Southwest Asian". It just happened that the J1 population carried genes that are now more common in Southwest Asia, regardless of where they originated.

Another more obvious example is R1b, which probably arose in Central Asia, but spend a long time in the Middle East (late Paleolithic to Neolithic) but is now more common in Western Europe. In the Dodecad admixture, R1b correlates mostly with "West European" but also with "Mediterranean", even though it was absent from Europe until approximately 4500 years ago.

Actually the subclade matters a lot, J1* is rare in Arabs but common in Anatolian/Caucasian populations, J1c3d on the other hand is the extremely common subclade in Arabs/Jews (But not so among Assyrians which is surprising).
 
E1b1b1c1 which is the E that originated in the Levant and was responsible (Along with J1c3d) for the Semitic languages

incorrect :useless:
 
The J1 in Assyrians is mostly the Anatolian native type (J1* DYS388 = 13), which is also found among other Anatolian/Caucasian populations and peaks in the Caucasus, the Semitic J1 type (J1c3d) is actually rare among them, but about 5% or so carry haplogroup E1b1b1c1 which is the E that originated in the Levant and was responsible (Along with J1c3d) for the Semitic languages, so if anything, I would say this paternal lineage was mostly responsible for bringing the Semitic language to the native Assyrians who mostly happen to carry R1b (Though a good chunk of it is similar to the European kind), J1*, J2a, and T.
Assyrians have for about 28.6 % of J1!
10.7 % is J-P58 and 17.9 % J1 but not P58.

So 10.7 % of J1 in Assyrians is Semitic / SouthWest Asian.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2987219/?tool=pmcentrez
 
Assyrians have for about 28.6 % of J1!
10.7 % is J-P58 and 17.9 % J1 but not P58.

So 10.7 % of J1 in Assyrians is Semitic / SouthWest Asian.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2987219/?tool=pmcentrez

J-P58 is J1c3, not J1c3d (Semitic J1), check out the variance map of J1c3 in figure 1 (Map e), that hot spot is the origins for this lineage.

Btw, where did you come up with 10.7% J1c3? I can only count 7.6% (Which is very similar to the Kurds btw, they carry 7.4%).
 
J-P58 is J1c3, not J1c3d (Semitic J1), check out the variance map of J1c3 in figure 1 (Map e), that hot spot is the origins for this lineage.

Btw, where did you come up with 10.7% J1c3? I can only count 7.6% (Which is very similar to the Kurds btw, they carry 7.4%).

Happy to see you make the distinction, but the focus on J1c3d only is kind of childish tbh... Other J1 subclades such as J1c2 and J1c3c (while the J1* in the Horn of Africa may have been involved in the original spread of Afroasiatic [this would explain the J1 frequency in the Canary islands, unfortunately P58 and L147.1 weren't tested for...]) probably migrated along with L147.1 so a Semitic association may also prove to be wise for now.
On the other hand you get the J1c3a (with 13 repeats at DYS388) subclade which confirms P58's Zagros origin in a sense, and provides a bigger picture of J1's role amongst Northeast Caucasian speakers (it also makes a fair case for the Alarodian language theory, King did point it out as well).
 
10.7% J-P58 (J1c3) + 17.9% J1 but not P58 among Assyrians modern Iraq:

Assyrians in Iraq = 28.6% of J1.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J1

In your original post you said "Assyrians", not "Assyrians in Iraq", look at the chart again, adding Assyrians all together (From Iraq, Iran, Turkey, and Syria) gives you 6.1% J1c3 and and 10.5% J1*.

Happy to see you make the distinction, but the focus on J1c3d only is kind of childish tbh... Other J1 subclades such as J1c2 and J1c3c (while the J1* in the Horn of Africa may have been involved in the original spread of Afroasiatic [this would explain the J1 frequency in the Canary islands, unfortunately P58 and L147.1 weren't tested for...]) probably migrated along with L147.1 so a Semitic association may also prove to be wise for now.
On the other hand you get the J1c3a (with 13 repeats at DYS388) subclade which confirms P58's Zagros origin in a sense, and provides a bigger picture of J1's role amongst Northeast Caucasian speakers (it also makes a fair case for the Alarodian language theory, King did point it out as well).

The Afro-Asiatic might have an actual African root rather than Caucasian, the Semitic on the other hand might be a mixture of these Caucasians that you speak of and some of the Afro-Asiatic folks from Northeast Africa.

The J1* seen in Eastern Africa might actually predate the expansion of Semitic languages since it seems kind of odd that J1* is rather not common all the way across Arabia then all of the sudden it shows up in East Africa.
 
The Afro-Asiatic might have an actual African root rather than Caucasian, the Semitic on the other hand might be a mixture of these Caucasians that you speak of and some of the Afro-Asiatic folks from Northeast Africa.

Precisely, an African root for Afroasiatic... Thus the J1* link would explain the Caucasian words found in african branches of Afroasiatic.
We reach a consensus regarding Semitic.

The J1* seen in Eastern Africa might actually predate the expansion of Semitic languages since it seems kind of odd that J1* is rather not common all the way across Arabia then all of the sudden it shows up in East Africa.

Which might tie it to the expansion of Afroasiatic in the long term, which is why I made such a statement.
 
Which might tie it to the expansion of Afroasiatic in the long term, which is why I made such a statement.

My point is it seems like the J1* that's sitting in Eastern Africa did not really play a role in the expansion of the Semitic languages like say, J1c3d, so it must have been a clan of J1* folks that migrated from the North (Possibly Anatolia) and all the way down to East Africa before there was such thing as Semitic languages, basically I was answering this quote:

"So 10.7 % of J1 in Assyrians is Semitic"
 
I always thought that an African, rather than Eurasian origin of the Afro-Asiatic languages as a whole is more likely, since all but one branch (Semitic) are found in Africa. Having said this, we don't really know. The Afro-Asiatic languages are probably the oldest conceivable and undisputed language family we know, so there is the possibility it might be different.
 
I always thought that an African, rather than Eurasian origin of the Afro-Asiatic languages as a whole is more likely, since all but one branch (Semitic) are found in Africa. Having said this, we don't really know. The Afro-Asiatic languages are probably the oldest conceivable and undisputed language family we know, so there is the possibility it might be different.

It is more African as a whole, but there are Caucasian words found in some of these Afro-Asiatic languages.
 
My point is it seems like the J1* that's sitting in Eastern Africa did not really play a role in the expansion of the Semitic languages like say, J1c3d so it must have been a clan of J1* folks that migrated from the North (Possibly Anatolia) and all the way down to East Africa before there was such thing as Semitic languages.

I share this view, what I meant is that J1* (along with E1b1b1 and R1b1c) might've been involved in the dispersion of original Afroasiatic from and within the Horn (Afroasiatic probably originated in East Africa if not in the Horn itself)... Which could also explain Caucasian words in african branches of Afroasiatic and J1*'s frequency amongst the Guanche (however I regret the fact that P58 wasn't tested for).
We are in total agreement.
 
Something about the map in Iberia : There is only one southwestern Iberian and he has 0% SW-Asia
 
Something about the map in Iberia : There is only one southwestern Iberian and he has 0% SW-Asia

Wilhelm, I'm growing tired of your denial about even the slightest bit of non-European influence on the in Iberian penninsula. The Phoenicians and the Moors both were there for nearly 800 years and it's somewhat unlikely that they didn't have the slightest impact. And I also somehow find it a tad unlikely that there has been no influence whatsoever swapping over from Africa given how the straight of Gibraltar is a mere 14 kilometers wide and I find it a tad unlikely that nobody crossed it in the past 10,000 years. I've given more than one informal warning, now I give you an infraction.
 
Wilhelm, I'm growing tired of your denial about even the slightest bit of non-European influence on the in Iberian penninsula. The Phoenicians and the Moors both were there for nearly 800 years and it's somewhat unlikely that they didn't have the slightest impact. And I also somehow find it a tad unlikely that there has been no influence whatsoever swapping over from Africa given how the straight of Gibraltar is a mere 14 kilometers wide and I find it a tad unlikely that nobody crossed it in the past 10,000 years. I've given more than one informal warning, now I give you an infraction.
What the hell are you talking about ?? This map is about DODECAD Project and is based on it's participants of that project. And you send me an infraction...really. For speaking the truth ? It's not my fault that the only southwestern iberian participant has 0% of Southwest-Asian, you can check it for yourself.
 

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