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There was a very early migration from the Steppe to the Southern Arc as shown by the Areni samples from Armenia almost to the Iranian border. These however also had Levant_PPN/Natufian-like admixture which is missing in Yamnaya, so I doubt that the latter were influenced by Areni. On the contrary, it is more likely Areni-like people influenced Anatolia.
Target: ARM_Areni_C___BC_4206-3925
Distance: 3.4176% / 0.03417649
39.6 TUR_Boncuklu_N:ZHAG_BON004___BC_7950
21.6 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728
18.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1954___BC_8212
7.6 RUS_AfontovaGora3:AfontovaGora3___BC_16086
6.8 Levant_PPNC:I1699___BC_6750
4.4 Levant_PPNB:BAJ001___BC_6900
1.8 RUS_Veretye_MesoES001___BC_10761
Target: Yamnaya_RUS_Samara___BC_3124-2835
Distance: 5.9363% / 0.05936292
34.2 GEO_CHG:KK1___BC_7728
28.0 RUS_Sidelkino_HG:Sidelkino___BC_9371
25.0 UKR_Meso:I1763___BC_8131
5.8 RUS_AfontovaGora3:AfontovaGora3___BC_16086
3.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1954___BC_8212
3.4 TUR_Boncuklu_N:ZMOJ_BON014___BC_7950
There is one (only) sample from Anatolia that has Steppe admixture (I1584) and it really seems to suggest a recent origin from the east and more distantly from the north as well.
Target: TUR_Barcin_C:I1584___BC_3820
Distance: 0.0277% / 0.02765814 | R2P
56.2 TUR_Buyukkaya_EC:CBT018___BC_5566
43.8 ARM_Areni_C:I1407___BC_3925
Target: TUR_Barcin_C:I1584___BC_3820
Distance: 0.0198% / 0.01977544 | R4P
47.1 HRV_Sopot_MN:I5077___BC_5051
25.0 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C:I1674___BC_3881
20.1 RUS_Darkveti-Meshoko_En:I2056___BC_4516
7.8 RUS_Progress_En: PG2001___BC_4900
Quote from "Lecture by Prof. David Reich - "The Genetic History of the Southern Arc: A Bridge between West Asia & Europe"" (Israel Institute for Advanced Studies):
"The impermeability of Anatolia to exogenous migration contrasts with our finding that the Yamnaya had two distinct gene flows, both from West Asia, suggesting that the Indo-Anatolian language family originated in the eastern wing of the Southern Arc and that the STEPPE SERVED ONLY AS A SECONDARY STAGING AREA OF INDO-EUROPEAN LANGUAGE DISPERSAL."
Conclusion:
Reich meant by this that the Yamnaya were not the first people to speak the Indo-European language.
Moja aka Cyrus aka Shahmiri should be banned. Most Iranians are not blonde or blue eyed. I am a Lur and most of us aren’t fair either. He is spreading disinformation and he is an embarrassment for every sane Iranian.
Quote from "Lecture by Prof. David Reich - "The Genetic History of the Southern Arc: A Bridge between West Asia & Europe"" (Israel Institute for Advanced Studies):
"The impermeability of Anatolia to exogenous migration contrasts with our finding that the Yamnaya had two distinct gene flows, both from West Asia, suggesting that the Indo-Anatolian language family originated in the eastern wing of the Southern Arc and that the STEPPE SERVED ONLY AS A SECONDARY STAGING AREA OF INDO-EUROPEAN LANGUAGE DISPERSAL."
Conclusion:
Reich meant by this that the Yamnaya were not the first people to speak the Indo-European language.
As I know, "Yamnaya" people didn't speak the Indo-European language, they are supposed to speak the Late Proto-Indo-European language (LPIE). On other hand, Anatolia languages are supposed to be connected to the archaic PIE.
Quote from "Lecture by Prof. David Reich - "The Genetic History of the Southern Arc: A Bridge between West Asia & Europe"" (Israel Institute for Advanced Studies):
"The impermeability of Anatolia to exogenous migration contrasts with our finding that the Yamnaya had two distinct gene flows, both from West Asia, suggesting that the Indo-Anatolian language family originated in the eastern wing of the Southern Arc and that the STEPPE SERVED ONLY AS A SECONDARY STAGING AREA OF INDO-EUROPEAN LANGUAGE DISPERSAL."
Conclusion:
Reich meant by this that the Yamnaya were not the first people to speak the Indo-European language.
Conclusion:
If "Indo-Anatolian" speakers spoke such language and were similar to Areni_C, it is precisely because they had recent origins from the Steppes.
The supposed homeland by Reich, is too close to Middle East, the flora and fauna of PIE is clearly steppe related. Perhaps it's just a partial interpretation or misinterpretation.
Look at Persian and Indian or Indo-Iranian in general, it is the R1a which connect the dots and the Sintashta Culture an eastward split of Corded Ware. It's not the other way around. Then the Caucasus and Zagros on general was like the cradle and the root of many non IE languages, whereas the more diversity is to be found on the Steppe. I am of the opinion somewhere in the future the steering wheel will yet again turn toward the steppe.
But at the end, who knows. I am sure it will steer a lot of debates.
In fact the same statement could be made on the base of the existing data. Because Yamnaya did not add much variaty in the genetic connections between east-west. Yamnaya is just another way for the spread of IE people. However I suspect they will need to review all the dates in time , because I think the population of Europe was already IE before the spread of Yamnaya people. (due to earlier migrations). For example: greek colonization to the South doesn't seems to go through Yamnaya. Same for Hititte people. There was another huge center of IE between Iran/Pakistan. This is what Reich is calling now "Southern Arc". The main spread of IE people was probably through Anatolia.
I thought it was supposed to come out tomorrow
ANE ancestry by itself is not equal to Steppe ancestry (although it is one of the Steppe ancestry components).
Native Americans are the present-day people with the highest ANE ancestry, however they have 0% Steppe ancestry.
Neolithic Iranians and CHG had ANE ancestry too.
That means the data you provided is wrong.
Ok, but that does not change what I said. In the calculators I always include very specific components (Iran_N, CHG, ANE, Amerindian etc.) so for example you will never see a model of mine where Karitiana is 40% ANE, for the simple reason that there is no need, it has a component all to itself and the same goes for Iran_N and CHG.
Let's not kid ourselves... If ANE, previously absent in the region, pops up in Armenia in 4000 BC, you only have to do 2+2 to see that it is a recent migration from the Steppes.
It seems to me that Areni could get steppe admixture. It is b/c they have similar amount of ANE as Lchashen culture does, where Y-DNA I2a2b-L596 was found. Actually Lchashen culture is closely related with ancient Mycenaean and chariot of Shang china:Conclusion:
If "Indo-Anatolian" speakers spoke such language and were similar to Areni_C, it is precisely because they had recent origins from the Steppes.
I hope you take my post as a honest analysis of the data presented in those papers and how the admixture results you are showing do not definitively confirm the PIE is North of the Caucuses nor does it confirm that the PIE is South of the Caucus mountains.
Take Figure 4 for example from Lazaridis et al 2016. It clearly shows admixture from Iran Neolithic going North and EHG from North of the Steppes going South. But here is the question, what is the direction of causality so to speak. In a regression framework, it could be that the Y (Dependent variable) is South Caucus and the X (independent variable) is Steppe admixture. In this context, is the Steppe admixture with EHG moving south of the Caucuses bringing PIE language into Armenian and Iran, etc. Alternatively, if the Y (Dependent variable) is North of the Caucuses (Steppe) and the X is CHG admixture, etc. In this context, is is the CHG moving North and perhaps bringing PIE language to the Steppe. So what you have in this situation is a classic endogeneity problem in terms of the direction of causality, i.e. what is the Y and what is the X variable. So when Professor Reich in his 2018 book "How we Are..." talked about the Armenian Highlands are a plausible source of where PIE languages originated, I think the results in Figure 4 suggest that that is a plausible hypothesis. Just to be clear, this is not the Anatolian Hypothesis related to ancient Hittites being the source of PIE.
So not sure what I wrote above makes any sense but right now at best your models show is an association/correlation in that yes Steppe Admixture is in those Ancient Armenian samples. But there is CHG in those Steppe_EMBA and Steppe_MLBA samples as well. Again, an association. But in my view those admixture results do not show one way or the other where the PIE homeland is.
Hopefully, the new Reich Team paper will be able to sort that out with this new samples. Again, hopefully my post is seen as a honest attempt to discuss civilly what is for many a very, very, very, contested question (PIE homeland). And as I have said numerous times, while I find the PIE an very interesting research question, I have no emotional feelings one way or the other where the PIE homeland is (North or South of the Caucus mountains).
Cheers, PT
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