Genetic study Disparate demographic impacts of the Roman Colonization and the Migration Period in the Iberian Peninsula.

Jalisciense said:
I just write what Flores-Bello and his team did, they took and used them to form the Roman label in their study.
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I still can't reconcile such (I guess quite outspread) "pan-Italian Roman" cluster with what Tautalus was writing about a Western Anatolian Roman/Byzantine cluster from the study linked above. Sorry if I'm confusing things up but right now I'm confused myself.
 
Luso said:
It is too bad we can’t get samples from north west iberia in this period as it would help explain whether it was found that nafri genetics were found as far as Galicia. If not, then Islamic era migrations of nafri-infused populations most have moved north during that time to explain higher admixtures.
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Yes, the only thing I regret is that there is very little information, especially about Northwest Iberia.
 
HereToLearn said:
I still can't reconcile such (I guess quite outspread) "pan-Italian Roman" cluster with what Tautalus was writing about a Western Anatolian Roman/Byzantine cluster from the study linked above. Sorry if I'm confusing things up but right now I'm confused myself.
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I shouldn't have posted the Flores-Bello study, its percentages are wrong and it only created confusion.
Flores-Bello used Roman Empire samples from the study Ancient Rome: a genetic crossroads of Europe and the Mediterranean.
In that study they say “During the Imperial period (n = 48 individuals), the most prominent trend is an ancestry shift toward the eastern Mediterranean and with very few individuals of primarily western European ancestry (Fig. 3C). The distribution of Imperial Romans in PCA largely overlaps with modern Mediterranean and Near Eastern populations, such as Greek, Maltese, Cypriot, and Syrian (Figs. 2A and 3C). This shift is accompanied by a further increase in the Neolithic Iranian component in ADMIXTURE (Fig. 2B) and is supported by f-statistics (tables S20 and S21): compared to Iron Age individuals, the Imperial population shares more alleles with early Bronze Age Jordanians (f4 statistics Z-score = 4.2) and shows significant introgression signals in admixture f3 for this population, as well as for Bronze Age Lebanese and Iron Age Iranians (Z-score < −3.4).”
We attempted to fit the Imperial population as a simple two-way combination of the preceding Iron Age population and another population, either ancient or modern, using qpAdm. Some populations producing relatively better fits come from eastern Mediterranean regions such as Cyprus, Anatolia, and the Levant (table S22). However, none of the tested two-way models provides a good, robust fit to the data, suggesting that this was a complex mixture event, potentially including source populations that have not yet been identified or studied.
ChromoPainter analysis reveals diverse ancestries among Imperial individuals (n = 48), who fall into five distinct clusters (Fig. 4A). Notably, only 2 out of 48 Imperial-era individuals fall in the European cluster (C7) to which 8 out of 11 Iron Age individuals belong. Instead, two-thirds of Imperial individuals (31 out of 48) belong to two major clusters (C5 and C6) that overlap in PCA with central and eastern Mediterranean populations, such as those from southern and central Italy, Greece, Cyprus, and Malta (Fig. 4B). An additional quarter (13 out of 48) of the sampled Imperial Romans form a cluster (C4) defined by high amounts of haplotype sharing with Levantine and Near Eastern populations, whereas no pre-Imperial individuals appear in this cluster (Fig. 4AC). In PCA, some of the individuals in this cluster also project close to four contemporaneous individuals from Lebanon (240 to 630 CE)”
It is this ancestry that they call Roman related ancestry in their study, and that is why the percentages of Roman ancestry attributed to the Iberians are exaggerated.
The Western Anatolian Roman/Byzantine cluster refers basically to Eastern Mediterranean ancestry but it come from the study that gave rise to this thread.
 
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Interesting article about the Iberian admixtures and some Y-DNA and mtDNA lineages. Observe the samples are from the Visigothic and Suebic (Emerita Augusta) Periods with different local compositions and origins. Unfortunately they don't have samples from the Western part and Portugal was a genetic, linguistic and political frontier since the Reconquista, a major demographic and genetic factor in Iberia. The region around Braga, the Suebi capital of Gallaecia (Entre-Douro-e-Minho, the Portuguese cradle) received more Suebi and Alan remnants as I presume via historical documents (including my Ancient Iranic Y-DNA lineage as well only found there with the TMRCA in Northern Portugal before the expansion to Central-Southern Portugal, the Atlantic Islands like Azores and Big Brazil).

We have São Teodomiro's DNA from Santiago de Compostela and he also had North African components.
https:://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/unveiling-bishop-teodomiro-of-iria-flavia-an-attempt-to-identify-the-discoverer-of-st-jamess-tomb-through-osteological-and-biomolecular-analyses-santiago-de-compostela-galicia-spain/3D7EA1E8EEE9E2B0F9832547FCF1B545
 
Interesting study. I wonder if this Roman L-M349 has any relation to the sample of Las Gobas.
 
The study that Aemilius refers to is Five centuries of consanguinity, isolation, health, and conflict in Las Gobas: A Northern Medieval Iberian necropolis.

It is an interesting study about a medieval necropolis in northern Spain, Las Gobas, with samples spanning from the 7th to the 11th centuries.

HPPtkyO.png
 
Tautalus said:
The study that Aemilius refers to is Five centuries of consanguinity, isolation, health, and conflict in Las Gobas: A Northern Medieval Iberian necropolis.

It is an interesting study about a medieval necropolis in northern Spain, Las Gobas, with samples spanning from the 7th to the 11th centuries.

HPPtkyO.png
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Las Gobas seems extremely modern like in this 7th-11th century sampling. The more I see the data, the more I think Vallicanus is on to something with his thought of a basque country repopulation event for Iberia.
 
Vitruvius said:
Las Gobas seems extremely modern like in this 7th-11th century sampling. The more I see the data, the more I think Vallicanus is on to something with his thought of a basque country repopulation event for Iberia.
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Well that would be a plausible case for eastern and central parts of the peninsula. However, for the rest of the peninsula including western iberia there was little to no basque influence at all. That is probably why today there are distinct genetic clusters from west iberia to east iberia.
 
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Luso said:
Well that would be a plausible case for eastern parts of the peninsula. However, for the rest of the peninsula including western iberia there was little to no basque influence at all. That is probably why today there are distinct genetic clusters from west iberia to east iberia.
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and what of south such as Andalusia? Do we have any documents corroborating the idea of a basque > andalusian migration?
 
Vitruvius said:
and what of south such as Andalusia? Do we have any documents corroborating the idea of a basque > andalusian migration?
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This was all discussed in an older thread here: https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/basques-repopulated-spain-during-the-reconquista.42292/

But in terms of sources:

link.springer.com

The economic consequences of the Spanish Reconquest: the long-term effects of Medieval conquest and colonization - Journal of Economic Growth

This paper shows that a historical process that ended more than five centuries ago, the Reconquest, is very important to explain Spanish regional economic development down to the present day. An indicator measuring the rate of Reconquest reveals a heavily negative effect on current income...
link.springer.com link.springer.com

www.cambridge.org

The Basques in history (Chapter 1) - The Making of the Basque Nation

The Making of the Basque Nation - September 1989
www.cambridge.org www.cambridge.org

 
To get an idea of how the Reconquista took place, we can look at the expansion of the Ibero-Romance languages. As there are genetic clusters, there are also linguistic clusters, which in this case are coincidental. The "re"conquerors took their language with them and the language that had the greatest impact on the central and southern parts of the peninsula was Castilian, which came from the north, from an area close to the Basques.

https://imgur.com/FUOCMs2
 
Tautalus said:
To get an idea of how the Reconquista took place, we can look at the expansion of the Ibero-Romance languages. As there are genetic clusters, there are also linguistic clusters, which in this case are coincidental. The "re"conquerors took their language with them and the language that had the greatest impact on the central and southern parts of the peninsula was Castilian, which came from the north, from an area close to the Basques.

https://imgur.com/FUOCMs2
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Don't Basque influences exist in the Castilian language?
 
Vallicanus said:
Don't Basque influences exist in the Castilian language?
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Yes, Basque had an impact on Castilian. Castilian was born in the Cantabria region, therefore it was influenced by Basque-speaking regions.

According to linguists, some of these influences are:
Change of the initial /f/ to /h/ (farina > harina)
Absence of /v/ in most varieties of Spanish
The fact that there are only five vowels
Change of the initial /pl/ (planu > llano)

There are also some words of Basque origin that are part of Castilian, like pizarra (board), chaparro (oak), boina (beret), izquierda (left).

But I do not believe that the repopulation of the peninsula, particularly in the center and south, in the Castilian area of influence, was carried out by people from the Basque region. The Basque region has always been historically isolated.
In the Castilian case, the area of origin would have been Cantabria, which would have a genetic composition very close to the Basque region. It was from Cantabria that the Castilian conquerors began their march south.
 
Tautalus said:
To get an idea of how the Reconquista took place, we can look at the expansion of the Ibero-Romance languages. As there are genetic clusters, there are also linguistic clusters, which in this case are coincidental. The "re"conquerors took their language with them and the language that had the greatest impact on the central and southern parts of the peninsula was Castilian, which came from the north, from an area close to the Basques.

https://imgur.com/FUOCMs2
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So linguistics would indicate a Castilian source for this event over basque. Interesting. I wonder how drastically the reconquista and subsequent expulsions ended up depopulating iberia.
 
During the reconquista, Spain was not repopulated by Basques but by Iberians who were already living in Cantabria (perhaps ethnically close to the Basques, but culturally distinct) and who mixed with descended from Christian/Christianized Iberians refugees who had fled the areas occupied by the Moors. These refugees took with them their Romance language, which already incorporated some Arabic terms (and why not, also some NAFRI ancestry) and, together with the descendants of the locals, headed south during the reconquista, spreading Castilian to the center and south of the peninsula.
 
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Duarte said:
During the reconquista, Spain was not repopulated by Basques but by Iberians who were already living in Cantabria (perhaps ethnically close to the Basques, but culturally distinct) and who mixed with descended from Christian/Christianized Iberians refugees who had fled the areas occupied by the Moors. These refugees took with them their Romance language, which already incorporated some Arabic terms (and why not, also some NAFRI ancestry) and, together with the descendants of the locals, headed south during the reconquista, spreading Castilian to the center and south of the peninsula.
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Exactly because the Basque language is not related to any other language in Iberia. The only thing common between Cantabria and the Basques is exactly genetics.

As the Basques had few interactions with the rest of the peninsula and the only thing they had in common was the sharing of y-dna (R1b) and Indo-European genetics (and previous interactions) and after that interaction with the rest of the peninsula was minimal, I focused on only in the Cantabria area.
The most common branch of Basque r1b is exclusive to the Basques

Sometimes we end up referring a lot to the Basque area because they preserve more of this Indo-European genome that was not mixed, unlike the rest of the peninsula, with the Romans, Germans, Berbers, Arabs (elites coming from Flanders and Burgundy in the period of reconquest)

In short, we see the great linguistic as well as genetic focus in Iberia coming from Galicia, Asturias, Cantabria and the Catalans, which we can observe based on the graphs below.

Language:
FUOCMs2.gif


Genetic:
nuZI6Im.png


Font:
Clare Bycroft et al. Patterns of genetic differentiation and the footprints of historical migrations in the Iberian Peninsula. BioRxiv 2018 (pre-pub. DOI:10.1101/250191
 
Kirgonix Pereira said:
Exactly because the Basque language is not related to any other language in Iberia. The only thing common between Cantabria and the Basques is exactly genetics.

As the Basques had few interactions with the rest of the peninsula and the only thing they had in common was the sharing of y-dna (R1b) and Indo-European genetics (and previous interactions) and after that interaction with the rest of the peninsula was minimal, I focused on only in the Cantabria area.
The most common branch of Basque r1b is exclusive to the Basques

Sometimes we end up referring a lot to the Basque area because they preserve more of this Indo-European genome that was not mixed, unlike the rest of the peninsula, with the Romans, Germans, Berbers, Arabs (elites coming from Flanders and Burgundy in the period of reconquest)

In short, we see the great linguistic as well as genetic focus in Iberia coming from Galicia, Asturias, Cantabria and the Catalans, which we can observe based on the graphs below.

Language:
FUOCMs2.gif


Genetic:
nuZI6Im.png


Font:
Clare Bycroft et al. Patterns of genetic differentiation and the footprints of historical migrations in the Iberian Peninsula. BioRxiv 2018 (pre-pub. DOI:10.1101/250191
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This shows an east-west Iberian split clearly and also the Catalan spread from the Carolingian Match of Barcelona south to the Ebro delta and across to the Balearics.
Personally, G25 suggests that among all Spanish groups, I am closest to the Balearics especially to Minorca and Eivissa (Ibiza).
 
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