Immigration Does the Qur'an encourages peace and tolerance toward non-Muslims ?

[LeBrok]

No..never we captured Muslim women, and never we raped their coasts. Only in the case of Jerusalem.

Oh, only in case of Jerusalem? It is in quite contradiction with your "Never" statement. What about persecution and kicking out Muslims from Sicily? What about Libian and Somalian Muslims during Italian colonialism? I'm sure they gave away their countries peacefully to Italians.

Here is one of examples of Christian Italians behavior in Muslim country, in this case Libia:

To close rebel In 1930, Italian forces conquered Fezzan and rose the Italian flag in Tummo, the southernmost region of Fezzan.^[15]supply routes from Egypt, the Italians constructed a 300-kilometre barbed wire fence on the border with Egypt that was patrolled by armoured cars and aircraft.^[16] The Italians persecuted the Senussi Order: zawias were closed; mosques were closed and Senussi practices were forbidden; Senussi estates were confiscated; and preparations were made for Italian conquest of the Kufra Oasis, the last stronghold of the Senussi in Libya.^[16] In January 1931, Italian forces seized Kufra where Senussi refugees were bombed and strafed by Italian aircraft as they fled into the desert.^[16] Mukhtar was captured by the Italians in 1931 followed by a court martial and his public execution by hanging at SuluqFrom 1930 to 1931, Italian forces unleashed a wave of terror against the Cyrenaican indigenous people, 12,000 Cyrenaicans were executed from 1930 to 1931 and all the nomadic peoples of northern Cyrenaica were forcefully removed from the region and relocated to huge concentration camps in the Cyrenaican lowlands.^[16] In June 1930, Italian military authorities carried out the forced migration and deportation of the entire population of Jebel Akhdar in Cyrenaica, resulting in 100,000 Bedouins, half the population of Cyrenaica, being expelled from their settlements.^[4] These 100,000 people who were mostly women, children, and the elderly, were forced by Italian authorities to march across the desert to a series of barbed-wire concentration camp compounds erected near Benghazi, any stragglers who could not keep up with the march were summarily shot by Italian authorities.^[17] Propaganda by the Fascist regime declared the camps to be oases of modern civilization that were hygienic and efficiently run - however in reality the camps had poor sanitary conditions as the camps had an average of about 20,000 Beduoins together with their camels and other animals, crowded into an area of one square kilometre.^[17] The camps held only rudimentary medical services, with the camps of Soluch and Sisi Ahmed el Magrun with 33,000 internees each having only one doctor between them.^[17] Typhus and other diseases spread rapidly in the camps as the people were physically weakened by meagre food rations provided to them and forced labour.^[17] By the time the camps closed in September 1933, 40,000 of the 100,000 total internees had died in the camps.^[17]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacification_of_Libya

Was this uneasy part of Italian history skipped by Italian Education program? Judging by your lack of recollection of cited fact, it might be the case.

Muslims were always our enemies. Never were friends with us.

Did you ever triy to have a Muslim friend? Perhaps, this is why.

 

[julia90]

Well, I recon those were barbarian ways to act similar to the Charlie hebdo barbarian ways.

But the fact is that today Italy won't ever do such things while today many Islamic states would do such things.

Italians not only slaughtered Muslims during world war, but also other Christians Europeans, like mass murdering in Montenegro.

Germans too slaughtered Italians during world word, read about sant Anna di stazzema, fosse ardeatine.

I m for religion freedom, meaning I m ok to buddist temples, jeowah witness buildings, pagodas, Hindu.. Ecc in my country.

But not mosques as they are dangerous nowadays for their sadistic/twisted ideas on dhimma, Infedels, women submission.

I had some Muslim chatting .unfortunately many of them were intolerant toward my religion, while I was at the beginning open minded with them. One called my an Infedel, one thought women were inferior.. ..

 

[Yetos]

nothing,

just another kind of Dark ages is upon the earth,

 

[bicicleur 2]

I remember a Maroccan muslima in Brussels catching a Maroccon boy stealing from here
His excuse was 'sorry, I didn't know you were muslim'
It's a small incident but it shows shows how many muslims are taught : you're allowed to treat non-muslims different than muslims, only muslims deserve your genuine respect
I don't know whether they get this from the qur'an or elsewhere

 

[julia90]

Yes..they have a high respect for themselves..but 0 tolerance to other.. Those who are like that should go the **** out of europe.

 

[julia90]

Btw, le Brock.

Muslims were pushed out of Sicily, because they exactly acted like today they act..they persecuted Christians, imposed their ridiculous veils, ..all that bullshit you heard today from them. They had the ability to stress the local people just like today. It was natural we fought them because the wanted to comand and impose a religion and a way of life we never wanted. Muslims don't have changed since them..it seems (obvious).

 

[Yetos]

the worst thing happened in England,

they disembark a mother and her baby daughter from the bus, cause she was singing Peppa the pig, from the cartoon,
they took it as an insult, since they are not allowed to eat pig,
but after the last fetva given in an Islamic religious congress,
a man is allowed to eat his wife in case of extra hunger, but not a pig, !!!!!

 

[bicicleur 2]

I would say that people of any religion would love to see the whole world believing in their faith. Muslims are not exceptions in this department. The problem is that they are stuck in middle ages with their traditions, and many of them don't think and act differently than middle ages Christians spreading Christianity with the sward. My point is, Europe managed to get more tolerant and inclusive with times, and there is nothing to stop middle eastern societies from following this trend. It is just a mater of time. People in middle east are not that genetically different from Europeans to justify different behavior. In this case all points to upbringing and education, and this can be fixed in rather short time.
One of the main problems is that they were overwhelmed by Western/Christian world for last 200 years. It made them feel insecure, inferior, and used. It usually unites people to the fight against well defined enemy.
The only cure is to make sure they develop their economies, democratize governance and become feeling as masters of their destiny. This will liberalize their societies in western ways and will push Islam religion to a third row of importance of their lives.

tell me how you will do that
in countries where muslims are in the majority they do everything possible to prevent just that
and they will tell that you are a western imperialist
islam is their only destiny

 

[LeBrok]

tell me how you will do that
in countries where muslims are in the majority they do everything possible to prevent just that
and they will tell that you are a western imperialist
islam is their only destiny

I won't do that. It is an internal process. Just have a look at Albania or Bosnia, and how they can be tolerant muslims and find their place in western world. I'm sure Europe is not afraid of them, or Islamisation coming from them.
If you live in Middle Ages, when infidels (non-christian) were burned by holy inquisition and Balts were taught christianity by sward, or later during 100 year war, you wouldn't guess that Christian Europe can change either. Should we mention times of WW2 when fascism and communism ruled over Europe and 50 millions died due to their totalitarian ideas. Heck, it was only 70 years ago.
Change can come quickly and unexpectedly, and also by slow changes. Unless you think that Muslims are genetically different from Christians or Western folks, and have genetic block against tolerance.

 

[LeBrok]

Btw, le Brock.

Muslims were pushed out of Sicily, because they exactly acted like today they act..they persecuted Christians, imposed their ridiculous veils, ..all that bullshit you heard today from them. They had the ability to stress the local people just like today. It was natural we fought them because the wanted to comand and impose a religion and a way of life we never wanted. Muslims don't have changed since them..it seems (obvious).

Sorry to disappoint you, Christian philosophy or attitude to women, slavery or other religions was exactly the same as Muslim back than. Attitude towards science was even worse. And IIRC, purging of muslims wasn't done by Italians but by Normans who conquered South Italy back then. But christians regardless. It was more about control of land, money and power than about religion. Christian women had to cover their heads back then exactly like muslim women. It is still a tradition in Sicily.

These are modest married women, well except the one liberated.

Tell me, why Sicily was also purged from Jews by christians? Were they jihadists?

 

[Yetos]

well that kind of womans haircover entered with christianity,

but antique world had special women hair cover to declare, mood, marriage, warrior, whore, working time, priest, etc,

BUT NEVER THE FACE

 

[LeBrok]

well that kind of womans haircover entered with christianity,

but antique world had special women hair cover to declare, mood, marriage, warrior, whore, working time, priest, etc,

BUT NEVER THE FACE

Did muslim or jewish women cover faces in Sicily, Bosnia or Albania?

Look what I found. Veiled classical Greek women.

Anyway look at this modern tradition of putting a veil on a bride. How did it start?

 

[julia90]

Head cover is something to protect the head against solar ireadiance..it was used along the mediterranean (i don't know if in northern europe too??) but women were never imposed by men to cover forcefully.

While in islamic nations it Is imposed forcefully.

Well Since we are Now secolarized at pesce with our religion..i don't see why we have to tollerate theese extremist that are invading europe with their backward beliefs. They don't like our society.. If so why they are coming?

 

[Fire Haired14]

How do Muslim men even notice women?

 

[LeBrok]

How do Muslim men even notice women?

Don't need to. Marriage is arranged by parents. Anyway, they have more kids than today's Christians, so I guess women are noticed.

 

[Yetos]

Did muslim or jewish women cover faces in Sicily, Bosnia or Albania?

but neither in high glory of Arabic islam women cover the face,
neither the times of their prophet,


but Islam of 6-7-8th century has nothing to do with modern Islam,
modern Islam is giving stupid fetva that would made sick even their prophet,
like if women driving will harm their ovaries

had early Islam Burka? or was invented by modern Islam
except the Sahara Bedouins where they cover their nose so not to breath dust something that is in symphony with enviroment,
or is enviromental balance to wear burka in α latitute of Berlin for example.


Christians did a lot of damage to correct thinking,
but even the most foundamental in few years rejected stupid paragraphs of Mouses
as also the Jews like Deuteronomion ΚΓ/13, who does this paragraph of the 'law' today?


and about Bosnia and Albania,
ok why we do not see how was Lebanon/Beirut, Iran with Sah, and Afganistan, before 70-100 years
in Beirut even the times of '50 there was not sharia law, Beirut was named the Paris of Near East.
even in Iran before Ayatolahs
same in the kingdoms of Afganistan,
WHY YOU DO NOT SEE HOW THEY WERE TRANSORMED just in 1-2 decades
same will happen in Bosnia,
and is happening in Albania, where many Islam priest are accussed for supporting DAESH, and already send more 185 (officially, unofficially a battalion with more than 500) to Islamofasists
what Syrrians and Levantines and Iranian try to reject from Islam for canturies, needed much shorter time to become law,
ISLAM IS A RELIGION WHERE PRIEST KNOW ALL AND HAVE POWER EVEN OVER DOCTORS


IF YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND MY WORDS,
THEN GOOGLE IMAGES,
1 IRAN's SHAH
2 IRAN's PResident

in First you will at least wifes and women,
in second only Ayatollahs and a 'priest's' boy, not even a photo with their wifes!!!!!!

that is the faith of Albania and Bosnia,
soon Ayatollachs will gain the power there also,


Le Brok,
my friend I live in a country where we see some things better,
THE BIGGEST REFORMER IN ISLAMIC WORLD WAS BORN NEARBY HERE,
HIS NAME WAS KEMAL ATTATURK, he manage to save the remants of Islamic Ottoman's to a modern 'democracy' Turkey, the only Islamic country that survived with elections,
even his work and his followers today in Turkey are about to be passed, the line is weaking, and the balance is trembling
Erdogan belonged to the ex-Islamic party

 

[LeBrok]

Head cover is something to protect the head against solar ireadiance..it was used along the mediterranean (i don't know if in northern europe too??) but women were never imposed by men to cover forcefully.

Sure, there are places like Arabian peninsula where men and women are covered from feet to toes, for the mentioned reason.

 

[LeBrok]

but neither in high glory of Arabic islam women cover the face,
neither the times of their prophet,


but Islam of 6-7-8th century has nothing to do with modern Islam,
modern Islam is giving stupid fetva that would made sick even their prophet,
like if women driving will harm their ovaries

had early Islam Burka? or was invented by modern Islam
except the Sahara Bedouins where they cover their nose so not to breath dust something that is in symphony with enviroment,

Maybe it started in classical Greece?

 

[Yetos]

Maybe it started in classical Greece?

I do not know where you get this,
but especially the first is too good to be an ancient Greek art,
I have never seen such kind of statue in ancient Greek art,

yet I know that whores used to do that when they were out for customers,
Aristotle had described them as looking at their but when they speak, dance or even walk,
and shake it as γαλα πεπηγμενον με μελι cream caramele
so probably if the first is true ancient Greek, I doupt cause is too perfect, is probably describing a whore,
yet the second even today when is raining or very cold women wear it like this,
it is called εσαρπα, a big textile for shoulders, that can used to protect head from rain or cold days

much later Romans change the habbit with blonds



BUT you did not answer me,

why Beirut/Lebanon and Iran did turn to a more 'free will' world and Turkey stays conservative although has elections, and you believe Albania and Bosnia will be the first that will reject that?
and not the opposite?

Until today Arab spring gave nothing but a change of population in Italy Greece Spain France, and reduce of non Muslims in ex-Syria and and ex-Iraq (yezidi and Antiochean christians) also in Egypt (Koptic christians)
and surely went Egypt Back, so back that rioters rape journalists in the central squares!! something that would be discustic for Egyptians before few deacdes

what makes you believe that Albania and Bosnia will run the other way?

you can not answer,
cause we both know why,
the answer is back at crusaders time,

 

[bicicleur 2]

I won't do that. It is an internal process. Just have a look at Albania or Bosnia, and how they can be tolerant muslims and find their place in western world. I'm sure Europe is not afraid of them, or Islamisation coming from them.
If you live in Middle Ages, when infidels (non-christian) were burned by holy inquisition and Balts were taught christianity by sward, or later during 100 year war, you wouldn't guess that Christian Europe can change either. Should we mention times of WW2 when fascism and communism ruled over Europe and 50 millions died due to their totalitarian ideas. Heck, it was only 70 years ago.
Change can come quickly and unexpectedly, and also by slow changes. Unless you think that Muslims are genetically different from Christians or Western folks, and have genetic block against tolerance.

In Europe the process took 500 years, it is called the enlightment.
Nowadays muslims want to reverse the process. They want to install sharia in Europe. They ignore seperation between state and religion. They oppose democracy, they say islam serves a higher purpose.
Turkey is turning from a secular state to an islamic state. In his speeches Erdogan is all the time glorifying muslim superiority over other people. And Erdogan is very popular in Turkey, he has the majority who believe and support him : he simply tells the stories they like to hear. Some are dreaming of a new Ottoman Empire.
Do you see any movement for the better in Iran or Pakistan or in any other muslim state?
The only possibility seems to replace them by another totalitarian regime like in Egypt.
I don't see a solution either, but at least you should acknowledge that there is a big problem that won't just resolve itself.
Or do you want WW3 to solve the problem? That is what you seem pointing at.