ENGLISH EXPERT CLAIMS: Yugoslavia would be world power, and Belgrade-Europe's capital

How dare you suggest we're obliged to give up our independence. We aren't. We do however seek a military alliance with Western nations and an economic union. We won't be a German province- the memories of WWII were too painful.

Nationalism and concept of (mini) state nation is somewhat rigid.

Also, Europe cannot be competitive with such concept.

You can see this century is Asian century.

Giants as China, and in not so distant future India, will have economic power in the world.

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...omy-who-is-getting-richer?p=486490#post486490
 
For the third time, I don't care. We won't give up our independence, and there's nothing you can do about it.

I do nothing.

Trends and developments are beyond one's will.

Europe will have stronger integration what is good for European society and economy and competition with giants in the world, of course if nationalist and populist movements would be strong, thing would go more slowly.
 
Here i found an funny known quote,good in this case Yugoslavia/Balkans since we disscused about nationalism prior;

A nation is a group of people united by a common error about their ancestry and a common dislike of their neighbors.
Lol, so much truth in it.
 
I do nothing.

Trends and developments are beyond one's will.

Europe will have stronger integration what is good for European society and economy and competition with giants in the world, of course if nationalist and populist movements would be strong, thing would go more slowly.
No, independence, self-determination, and freedom are actually pretty popular ideas these days, along with rising anti-globalist sentiment. Sorry to tell you that your Greater Yugoslavia dream would have failed anyway.
 
No, independence, self-determination, and freedom are actually pretty popular ideas these days, along with rising anti-globalist sentiment. Sorry to tell you that your Greater Yugoslavia dream would have failed anyway.

I don't dream about Yugoslavia, it is gone.

I like United states of Europe.
 
Well I dont know how true that is, but Serbs failed to coexist with others to the point that even the Orthodox Montenegrins refused to be united with them, not counting Catholic Croats, Muslim Bosnians, or Albanians even worse.
 
Well I dont know how true that is, but Serbs failed to coexist with others to the point that even the Orthodox Montenegrins refused to be united with them, not counting Catholic Croats, Muslim Bosnians, or Albanians even worse.
True, but also the Bosnian Muslims seem to insist that we all "coexist" over here whether we want to or not.
 
Well I dont know how true that is, but Serbs failed to coexist with others to the point that even the Orthodox Montenegrins refused to be united with them, not counting Catholic Croats, Muslim Bosnians, or Albanians even worse.

It is not true.

First nation which wanted to leave Yugoslavia were Slovenians.

Serbs were in favor Yugoslavia.

Yugoslavia had six nations: Serbs, Croats, Slovenians, Bosniacs, Montenegrins and Macedonians.

Albanians in Yugoslavia are completely different story, they were not nation, they were national minority.
 
What is true, that Serbs wanted to leave Yugoslavia.

No, it is not true.
I never said that, nor did he. Of course Serbs didn't want to leave because many wanted to make it Greater Serbia, as in the nationalists in opposition to Tito's multiethnic disaster.
 
Kosovo case have largely been mythologized,and was not the core of Yugoslavia problems at all,the division among Yugoslavia as well as the wars happened between Serbs,Croats,Bosniacs by majority.
Kosovo was only a small province of Yugoslavia so to say and not very important.If this didn't happened i doubt that even Kosovo and Macedonia,Montenegro will secede from Yugoslavia.Many Serbs feel ties to Kosovo historically due to middle ages,"historical rights" as in every other side of Balkans,Albanians came to populate large parts of Kosovo, today there is almost no Serbs there.What was their solution,maybe to be friends and came at terms at very beginning of Ottoman dissolution instead to create endless hatred or third power to set your problems,but this seem today almost unimaginable to majority among the two sides ,right now i doubt Kosovo is good either,non-recognized by many even EU countries,economic problems etc.
Albanians are autochthonous in Kosova.
 
Kosovo case have largely been mythologized,and was not the core of Yugoslavia problems at all,the division among Yugoslavia as well as the wars happened between Serbs,Croats,Bosniacs by majority.
Kosovo was only a small province of Yugoslavia so to say and not very important.If this didn't happened i doubt that even Kosovo and Macedonia,Montenegro will secede from Yugoslavia.Many Serbs feel ties to Kosovo historically due to middle ages,"historical rights" as in every other side of Balkans,Albanians came to populate large parts of Kosovo, today there is almost no Serbs there.What was their solution,maybe to be friends and came at terms at very beginning of Ottoman dissolution instead to create endless hatred or third power to set your problems,but this seem today almost unimaginable to majority among the two sides ,right now i doubt Kosovo is good either,non-recognized by many even EU countries,economic problems etc.

Actually its the other way around. Albanians from modern Kosovo and Southern Serbia came to populate Albania, mostly North and Central Albania obviously, as well as many mountainous region is Southern Albania by hugely affecting the Medieval local dialects and creating hybrid versions which exist today. The coastal towns of Montenegro kept mostly their Medieval original version which has similarities with Medieval version of Laberia (later affected by migration) and Arvanitika in Greece.

Similarly, North Western Albania (besides a Medieval Kosovo Albanian majority in Dukagjin, Shkodra) was populated by Albanians from Montenegro, while Montenegro itself by Albanians from Herzegovina. These distinct tribes nowadays live side by side and yet after 500 years speak different dialects which they carried from their original homeland.

Just consider that in the County of Shkodra, just to say "I have been", each village shows their origin by using "kam ken", "jam ken", "jam kan", "jom kon", "kam qan", "jam kjen", "kam qen", not to go into details about other dialectal differences within such a small community.
 
Actually its the other way around. Albanians from modern Kosovo and Southern Serbia came to populate Albania, mostly North and Central Albania obviously, as well as many mountainous region is Southern Albania by hugely affecting the Medieval local dialects and creating hybrid versions which exist today. The coastal towns of Montenegro kept mostly their Medieval original version which has similarities with Medieval version of Laberia (later affected by migration) and Arvanitika in Greece.

Similarly, North Western Albania (besides a Medieval Kosovo Albanian majority in Dukagjin, Shkodra) was populated by Albanians from Montenegro, while Montenegro itself by Albanians from Herzegovina. These distinct tribes nowadays live side by side and yet after 500 years speak different dialects which they carried from their original homeland.

Just consider that in the County of Shkodra, just to say "I have been", each village shows their origin by using "kam ken", "jam ken", "jam kan", "jom kon", "kam qan", "jam kjen", "kam qen", not to go into details about other dialectal differences within such a small community.
No, you are wrong. I have explained this many times. Exactly the dialects of Arvanites in Greece are the prove that your theory is wrong. The dialects of Arvanites are Tosk subdialects. The similarity between an subdialect of Ulqin for example with an subdialect of Athens are explained from scholars. But to understand this process i invite you to find an documentary of Top Chanel about the Meshar of Gjon Buzuku. Profesor Emil Lafe explain in detail this linguistic process.
BTW, this discussion is of topic here. Find the map of Albanians dialects, i have posted it here, or search for it in Wikipedia, etc.
 
I never said that, nor did he. Of course Serbs didn't want to leave because many wanted to make it Greater Serbia, as in the nationalists in opposition to Tito's multiethnic disaster.

Tito's Yugoslavia was not Greater Serbia. And Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovens, Kingdom of Yugoslavia, too.

Base in SFR Yugoslavia was republic, in Kingdom of Yugoslavia "banovina".
...

Yes disaster occurred, you're right.

Very stupid thing, conflicts and battles between Southern Slavs.

There was three concepts:

SR Slovenia and SR Croatia wanted confederation

SR Serbia and SR Montenegro wanted federation (status quo).

SR Bosnia and Herzegovina and SR Macedonia wanted something between.

Surely solution could find, no insoluble situations.
...

Why did things go wrong?

What was tipping point?

My opinion is that tipping point was unprovoked attacks Slovenian formations on the Yugoslav army in Slovenia (1991), Yugoslav army had victims.

Who know theory of tipping points and chaos theory it can be logical conclusion.

Slovenians were impatient and selfish, they didn't think about consequences of their actions on other parts of the country.
...

What we (South Slavic people) have today is that we are trying to build a good relationships based on mutual respect and understanding.

European Union is the best framework for all of us.
 
No, you are wrong. I have explained this many times. Exactly the dialects of Arvanites in Greece are the prove that your theory is wrong. The dialects of Arvanites are Tosk subdialects. The similarity between an subdialect of Ulqin for example with an subdialect of Athens are explained from scholars. But to understand this process i invite you to find an documentary of Top Chanel about the Meshar of Gjon Buzuku. Profesor Emil Lafe explain in detail this linguistic process.
BTW, this discussion is of topic here. Find the map of Albanians dialects, i have posted it here, or search for it in Wikipedia, etc.
Do u even know what I'm talking about?

Anyway, the dialect of the Arvanites is a Medieval version of Tosk before it got heavily influenced by Gheg. Laberia was pronouncing words such as miki, krushki, zogi, etc. which is the Kosovo (Easter Gheg) version. We know for a fact that Kuci of Kurveleshi has many settlers from Mati and Mirdita, Himara from Mirdita, Dhermiu from Kruja, Sinanaj of Tepelena from Malesia Lezhes, etc. Laberia also eventually lost the "isht" and replaced it with "esht", while some elders from remote villages still use "isht".

Long story short, my point is that North Albania is settled heavily by Kosovo Albanians since the Middle Ages and not the other way around.

I have the Meshar at home and know very well the dialect as Im a Malsor myself. Meshar and Malsor dialect is proof of a continuum interrupted by migration. I suggest u do research about the remnants of Gheg settlers in South Italy and their Malsor speech as well as the Arbanasi in Zadar. Furthermore, some Arvanite villages have a Gheg based dialect too, found especially in Boiotia.
 
Laberia

Do you really think that if any Serbian author writes something what you think it is good for you that it is so important to devote so much space?

But this shows extent of democracy in Serbia, around the same questions people may have diametrically opposed opinions and it is extraordinarily because it allows an open debate.

And it is good for development, in open debate where people give different suggestions and alternatives solutions will be better.

Is it possible in Albania we can find some Albanian writes similar for the benefits of Serbs, Macedonians, Greeks.

This is not an argument. Tell us, what you don`t agree with the article.
 
Unfortunately serbs never change.

SERBIAN YOUTH 2016 (this summer), center of Belgrade, celebrating win in waterpolo against Croatia, with ultra-nationalist songs and hatred for Croatia:


The most common slogan and comment among this young serb in the square and serb youtube users is:
SRBIJAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA UBIIIIIII HRAVATA DA SIPTAR NEMA BRATA

can be translated like something:
Kill the Croats brothers of the Alb


In the second video the most important serb politician Vojslav Seselj, burn the Croatian flag last year:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mef6Sp6XQ38
 
Laberia

Are you love destruction?

First see situation of your people, there are tons of materials, unfortunately.

Muslim Albanians burn down Christian Church in Kosovo

 

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