Estimating the Y-DNA and autosomal admixtures of Yamnaya samples

[Templar]

Hmm my guess would have to be that the results will be about 50% ANE, 25% WHG, and 25% EEF. I think all of the Y DNA will be R1a with maybe 1 or 2 exceptions.

 

[motzart]

I think there are going to be some big surprises in the paper

 

[kosmonomad]

The west-Asian component should have been brought in by R1b and Maykop J2. The R1b folks probably still had quite a bit of ANE. R1a was there certainly. G2 and I2 in the westernmost part. The culture was too big. I just hope they have chosen the sort of samples to give a good representative coverage.

 

[Aberdeen]

The west-Asian component should have been brought in by R1b and Maykop J2. The R1b folks probably still had quite a bit of ANE. R1a was there certainly. G2 and I2 in the westernmost part. The culture was too big. I just hope they have chosen the sort of samples to give a good representative coverage.

Now that you mention this issue, it wouldn't surprise me if all of the samples are from a single site, so while I think the Yamnaya population as a whole was a mixture of R1a, J2, G and possibly R1b, those few samples may not be representative and may skew toward one or two haplotypes, depending on how well mixed the Yamnaya population was. And the bias toward R1a in northeastern Europe is either mostly Corded Ware without as much IE impact as we assumed or a result of the more northerly Yamnaya being biased toward R1a because they were less mixed with the "Armenian" component. So, depending on where the dividing line was for the Yamnaya population, these few samples could be all R1a or no R1a, or a mix.

 

[LeBrok]

The west-Asian component should have been brought in by R1b and Maykop J2. The R1b folks probably still had quite a bit of ANE. R1a was there certainly. G2 and I2 in the westernmost part. The culture was too big. I just hope they have chosen the sort of samples to give a good representative coverage.

Exactly my sentiments. People of East Yamna might have different admixture proportions than West Yamna.

 

[MOESAN]

Now that you mention this issue, it wouldn't surprise me if all of the samples are from a single site, so while I think the Yamnaya population as a whole was a mixture of R1a, J2, G and possibly R1b, those few samples may not be representative and may skew toward one or two haplotypes, depending on how well mixed the Yamnaya population was. And the bias toward R1a in northeastern Europe is either mostly Corded Ware without as much IE impact as we assumed or a result of the more northerly Yamnaya being biased toward R1a because they were less mixed with the "Armenian" component. So, depending on where the dividing line was for the Yamnaya population, these few samples could be all R1a or no R1a, or a mix.

I agree for the most you wrote - OK too concerning Y-N1 - wait and see - Yamanya was surely not homogenous everyplace...

 

[kosmonomad]

Out of R1a there should be only Z93 in Yamnaya, which is my bet.

I think the answer may be more interesting. The type of burials with legs flexed position body lying on side facing south was an R1a cultural thing. Such burials are found in Maykop and in C-T, for example. The respective types of burials for R1b and J2 are also found outside their main realms. R1b in supine position. Those times had lots of interaction between cultures.
Exogamy must have been the way of gene flow.
Can somebody verify if the publication will have description of tested burials, because that way we sort out quickly who was where.

 

[Alan]

My guess is that among those 7 males of Yamnaya there will be
N1c (or some other N)
R1a
C or some other "strange" Y Haplos
and G

My guess some R1a, R1b and even R2, J's, G, N, C and possibly T* or even L*.

There was for sure J's and N as seen from Bronze-Iron Age samples in Hungary.

 

[ElHorsto]

Yamna would probably reveal mostly unspecific HGs like R1a, I2, J2, G, and to minor extent also a bunch of random other HGs.
R1b keeps puzzling me. Even if there is no R1b in Yamna, it still is very likely linked to IEan expansion to a large extent. I think it is very much possible that R1b cattle-herders very early also went through Iran to the east of the Caspian sea and then up to Samara/Urals and then to the west via Baltic, possibly creating Urnfield or alike. But additional other R1b routes are likely too (Iran-Anatolia-Balkans, Mycenea).
So R1b is probably also present in Yamna, but if not, it still doesn't imply it to be non-IEan.

 

[Alan]

In some of the recent Reich statements he called Yamna as the origin of some of the Indo Europeans. Doesn't sound to me like they are convinced Yamna is the ultimate homeland of PIE. They must know something.

They probably think Yamna was just a layover for some Indo European tribes who went into Europe.

 

[Robert6]

ENF EEF EHG WGH UGH ANE and Western Eurasia
http://forumdna.org/forum/uploads/monthly_02_2015/post-8-0-06452600-1423252725.jpg

 

[Greying Wanderer]

Let‘s have some guessing what will be the Y-haplogroups of the new Corded Ware/Yamnaya paper?



According to recent comments by Nick Patterson (Board) (https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?postID=3469924062250225189&blogID=4123559132014627431&isPopup=true&page=2)



a) There's a question of how ANE is defined but Yamnaya are about 50% EHG and 50% something else rich in ANE.



b) For the Yamnaya we have 9 samples, 7 Males.

There's a bunch of plausible possibilities but picking just one for fun I'll say

all R1a (or possibly all R1b) with the non-steppe component being all or almost all female mediated

 

[Angela]

There's a bunch of plausible possibilities but picking just one for fun I'll say

all R1a (or possibly all R1b) with the non-steppe component being all or almost all female mediated

So what happened to the men who brought them over the Caucasus, who would have belonged to a more advanced civilization? Or did the steppe men go all the way into the Caucasus mountains and/or south of them to get women? It seems like an awful lot of trouble. Was something wrong with their own women? I mean, I can see it happening occasionally, but enough times to lead to subsequent generations being 50% Near Eastern like?

I do see what you're getting at, but doesn't the sort of thing you're talking about happen when an invading group encounters a group they subjugate and the subjugated men have less opportunity to mate?

We're talking about Samara here. The steppe people encountered EEF women when they went into Europe, but this is before that and all the way to the east. Or are you suggesting Samara people went to CT type areas to get women? I don't know if that would work, because they didn't have ANE.

 

[Greying Wanderer]

So what happened to the men who brought them over the Caucasus, who would have belonged to a more advanced civilization? Or did the steppe men go all the way into the Caucasus mountains and/or south of them to get women? It seems like an awful lot of trouble. Was something wrong with their own women? I mean, I can see it happening occasionally, but enough times to lead to subsequent generations being 50% Near Eastern like?

I do see what you're getting at, but doesn't the sort of thing you're talking about happen when an invading group encounters a group they subjugate and the subjugated men have less opportunity to mate?

We're talking about Samara here. The steppe people encountered EEF women when they went into Europe, but this is before that and all the way to the east. Or are you suggesting Samara people went to CT type areas to get women? I don't know if that would work, because they didn't have ANE.

It's just one possibility and probably not the most likely so I'm suggesting it mostly for fun but i think it's *possible* (no more than that) that the process was the result of a polygamous steppe herder culture where the wealthy males monopolized the wives so younger lower status men stole wives from neighboring settled populations in places like the Caucasus.