Politics EU Frontex and Illegal immigration,

Vukodav said:
There is no Lybian government. Almost all negroes are coming from Benghazi and other zones controlled by ISIS or Ansar Al-Sharia.
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Most Africans travel to Sicily from Garibouli east of Tripoli while Africans and others leave Benghazi for Malta more than Italy.

Syrians cross from Zuwara west of Tripoli to Sicily but they usually aim for Germany or Sweden.
 
Angela said:
Ah, I was waiting for you, Vallicanus. The fact that the current crop is from Eritrea and Somalia somehow invalidates the fact that many Moroccans tried to make the same trip at prior periods?

More importantly, it somehow invalidates the main point?

There are not enough jobs in Italy for our own young people; in fact, we still export people. We also don't provide the kind of benefits for them as do Britain and Germany and the Scandinavian countries. Like I said, they're not stupid. They even speak quite good English.

After all, we have been taken to task by the EU, Germany in particular, for being too much in deficit. We have, as a result,cut spending for social programs even if not enough for the EU, and as a result, we have put our pensioners in peril. Are we supposed to put them even more in peril in order to give northern European style welfare benefits to these poor people?
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Angela, the main point is that Renzi,a strutting peacock, has failed Italy through not linking up to de facto rulers in Tripoli.
 
Angela said:
After all, we have been taken to task by the EU, Germany in particular, for being too much in deficit. We have, as a result,cut spending for social programs even if not enough for the EU, and as a result, we have put our pensioners in peril. Are we supposed to put them even more in peril in order to give northern European style welfare benefits to these poor people?
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here you go again Angela, it is as if EU brought Italian pensions in peril
it is Italian politicians who made large gouvernment debts making it more and more dificult to sustain social welfare
mind you it is not a typical Italian disease - many countries have it
 
bicicleur said:
Now we start talking. But you, the corriere della sera and Mr Renzi should tell the whole truth - though I don't expect this from journalists neither politicians
Do you realy believe that these people have relatives in France (and therefore take the boat to Italy) or that they have genuine right to stay in any European country?
They are economical immigrants attracted by European social system and they are no asset to any economy - be it the Italian or German economy.
They should be shipped back to their country of origin. And extensive search projects in the Mediterranean only stimulates more to come and makes bigger profits for criminal 'travel organisations' where thes immigrants pay their one-way ticket.
It's a hypocrit game and Mr Renzi should at least have the courage to tell the trueth. But what can you expect? He's a politician.
With an attitude like that things will have to get a lot worse before anything will be done to the problem.
Sorry, I get sick when I think of these people playing games and it's hard to stay objective.
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Yes, a good number of North Africans, in particular, have relatives in France and would prefer to join them. That doesn't mean the overarching motivation isn't economic. It's just that when you want to start over in a strange country, relatives can ease the transition. That's why immigrants from one village near Benevento have provided the vast majority of the ancestors of the Italian Americans in a small suburban town near me. This is a common narrative. It's how it works.

They land in Italy, or capsize near Italy (and Malta) because it's CLOSEST. You think they can make it to France (sorry, the wind and sea currents are against), or even more ridiculously though Gibraltar and up to Britain and Germany and Scandinavia in those damn death traps?

Did you read the article? Renzi is proposing to direct Italian registered ships and Italian navy ships which pick these people up to deliver them back to their home countries or the port of departure. Non Italian ships carrying them would be denied entry to Italian ports.

Do I think he will really do that? I don't know, but that's how it's done in the real world during hard ball negotiations, whether commercial, legal or diplomatic.

Also, Renzi's proposals seem rather draconian to me. But perhaps your complaint is that he isn't going far enough? I forgot, you said you want everybody to watch them drown, men, women, children, old and young, didn't you?

You indeed seem to be having difficulty remaining objective, and courteous for that matter. (Yes, I saw it.)

I suggest a glass of wine and some relaxing music.
 
Angela said:
Yes, a good number of North Africans, in particular, have relatives in France and would prefer to join them. That doesn't mean the overarching motivation isn't economic. It's just that when you want to start over in a strange country, relatives can ease the transition. That's why immigrants from one village near Benevento have provided the vast majority of the ancestors of the Italian Americans in a small suburban town near me. This is a common narrative. It's how it works.

They land in Italy, or capsize near Italy (and Malta) because it's CLOSEST. You think they can make it to France (sorry, the wind and sea currents are against), or even more ridiculously though Gibraltar and up to Britain and Germany and Scandinavia in those damn death traps?

Did you read the article? Renzi is proposing to direct Italian registered ships and Italian navy ships which pick these people up to deliver them back to their home countries or the port of departure. Non Italian ships carrying them would be denied entry to Italian ports.

Do I think he will really do that? I don't know, but that's how it's done in the real world during hard ball negotiations, whether commercial, legal or diplomatic.

Also, Renzi's proposals seem rather draconian to me. But perhaps your complaint is that he isn't going far enough? I forgot, you said you want everybody to watch them drown, men, women, children, old and young, didn't you?

You indeed seem to be having difficulty remaining objective, and courteous for that matter. (Yes, I saw it.)

I suggest a glass of wine and some relaxing music.
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You told you know Morroccans, I know them too. They use the word 'family' in a very broad sense if it suits them. If it benefits them they'll say the whole village is their family.
Besides, the fact of having relatives in Francewouldn't give them the right to settle there too. If they would have the right they would simply have taken the train to France.
And I never said they should they should let anybody drawn, why are you telling this?
I said they should rescue them and drop them again on the African coast where they came from. If they would do so for a couple of weeks, nobody would drown in the Mediterranean any more.
And if Renzi said he would do so, then he should. But he should not release them and send them to France or Germany.
But you call that negotiation. Well the French stopping them at Ventemiglia are negotiating too. In the mean time the situation is sickening more and more.
 
Vallicanus said:
The crossing points to Sicily are under the Tripoli de facto government.
Renzi needs to do a deal like Berlusconi did with Ghadaffi.
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Vallicanus said:
Most Africans travel to Sicily from Garibouli east of Tripoli while Africans and others leave Benghazi for Malta more than Italy.

Syrians cross from Zuwara west of Tripoli to Sicily but they usually aim for Germany or Sweden.
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Which film have you seen? Tripoli is controlled by Islamists, as all of Lybia, excluding for Tobruk (controlled by a fake democracy-military dictatorship).

Most Negroes are departing from ISIS controlled areas.

ACP9M2p.png
 
Vallicanus said:
Plenty of Syrians have family in Germany or Sweden.

Plenty of Africans are in Calais ready to sneak into England.
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Syrians, Kurds and Assyrians want to go to Germany and France.
Negroes want to go to Scandinavia and Finland.
Pakistanis and Afghanis are going to UK-Netherlands-Ireland.
 
Vukodav said:
Which film have you seen? Tripoli is controlled by Islamists, as all of Lybia, excluding for Tobruk (controlled by a fake democracy-military dictatorship).

Most Negroes are departing from ISIS controlled areas.

ACP9M2p.png
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The Tripoli government is Islamist, not Isis. There are currently 4 Libyan patrol boats under repair in SICILY.
 
Vukodav said:
Syrians, Kurds and Assyrians want to go to Germany and France.
Negroes want to go to Scandinavia and Finland.
Pakistanis and Afghanis are going to UK-Netherlands-Ireland.
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Really?

Britain has ALL these groups in abundance
 
Vallicanus said:
The Tripoli government is Islamist, not Isis. There are currently 4 Libyan patrol boats under repair in SICILY.
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Tripoli Islamist and ISIS are the same bunch with different names.

Quite off topic but Hungary has begun building a fence along its entire border with Serbia to halt the flow of illegal migrants. In the last 2 years, about 100.000 illegals (mostly Syrians, Iraqis and Afghanis) have lodged asylum requests in Hungary .

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...order-builds-fence-keep-out-refugees-migrants
 
If people in Europe think Islamist Tripoli is the same as Isis then I can see why the EU is clueless about stopping the migration. Engage with Tripoli or just accept that African migration is an open tap.
 
If people think... they are the same bunch with the same mindset. Negroes will keep coming untill the EU step in and bomb those savages to the stone age.
 
Vukodav said:
If people think... they are the same bunch with the same mindset. Negroes will keep coming untill the EU step in and bomb those savages to the stone age.
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The EU would not do that even if it could. (It can't. Without American bases western Europe would be under the Russians).
 
The Lybian Islamist/tribal militias are ten times weaker than Gheddafi. The UK, France and Italy only need to put an embargo and bomb their armed force, and let the Egyptians take care of them.

After that they should help Greece and Bulgaria build a 8 m tall fence on the border with Turkey.
 
Did you not write that the Tripoli Islamists are just like ISIS ie just as strong?

The EU would need outside help to wage war since it a complete military joke.
 
Every nation state is ON ITS OWN. So much for a united Europe.
 
Vallicanus said:
Did you not write that the Tripoli Islamists are just like ISIS ie just as strong?

The EU would need outside help to wage war since it a complete military joke.
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ISIS is a joke. The NATO would take care of them in 2 weeks, if they wished.
 
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