Politics EU Frontex and Illegal immigration,

It's like here, many say that they want to leave Italy but in fact many of them stay still here.
 
LOL

Vallicanus is a Jewish immigrant in Scotland and talks about MENA admixture in Greece.

Internet is crazy.

Valicanus is an Albanian under Scottish Flag
 
You know this how?

In any case Yetos should be banned for suggesting the killing of migrants.

Oh Really another Albanian, this time under Scottish flag, which puts words in my mouth,

can you give link?
 
Oh Really another Albanian, this time under Scottish flag, which puts words in my mouth,

can you give link?

Try Post 33 above for your genocidal words.

Are you not the Albanian here?
 
Post 33 said you would like to shoot them when they land.
 
They think they're going to reach northern Europe in those rickety things? Through the Straits of Gibraltar? I think their sense of geography is a little off...not to mention their navigation skills.

Do they settle for Italy?

Some do.

Italy rescued 170,000 in 2014.

It will be a much higher number this year (4,000 last week end alone).
 
They think they're going to reach northern Europe in those rickety things? Through the Straits of Gibraltar? I think their sense of geography is a little off...not to mention their navigation skills.

Do they settle for Italy?

"Other countries retort that Italy often skirts that burden by neglecting to fingerprint applicants and letting them go where they will—which in practice means anywhere in the borderless Schengen area. Economic migrants know that, if at all possible, they should avoid getting fingerprinted and head north. Very few failed applicants for asylum get deported from Italy; a lot of economic migrants get in and move on, say other European countries."

http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21649488-those-peril
 
Post 33 said you would like to shoot them when they land.

after all I wrote that is what you wanted to see or keep?

I am not expecting something more from an Albanian under Scottish flag

I wonder are you a TRAFFICKER?
 
"Other countries retort that Italy often skirts that burden by neglecting to fingerprint applicants and letting them go where they will—which in practice means anywhere in the borderless Schengen area. Economic migrants know that, if at all possible, they should avoid getting fingerprinted and head north. Very few failed applicants for asylum get deported from Italy; a lot of economic migrants get in and move on, say other European countries."

http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21649488-those-peril

Good, if that actually were the case, which it isn't. We still have more of them, along with Malta and Greece. Why should it just be Italy or the southern European countries that have to bear the burden of absorbing all these illegal, poor, uneducated people?

I thought this was supposed to be what the EU was all about...Why haven't they come up with a unified policy and enforced it, and distributed those immigrants it wants to keep proportionally? The answer is that for some countries it's all about unity when it's to their benefit and when it's not then they want to protect their own individual sovereignty. Hence, French soldiers at the border turning Maghrebis back when they actually have relatives in France. Hypocrisy, as always, reigns supreme.

People and countries generally act in their own self-interest. They're not reacting as "Europeans" first and foremost. Italian leaders and the Italian public have believed too much of the propaganda. They need to turn some of their cynicism outward instead of inward all the time.
 
Good, if that actually were the case, which it isn't. We still have more of them, along with Malta and Greece. Why should it just be Italy or the southern European countries that have to bear the burden of absorbing all these illegal, poor, uneducated people?

I thought this was supposed to be what the EU was all about...Why haven't they come up with a unified policy and enforced it, and distributed those immigrants it wants to keep proportionally? The answer is that for some countries it's all about unity when it's to their benefit and when it's not then they want to protect their own individual sovereignty. Hence, French soldiers at the border turning Maghrebis back when they actually have relatives in France. Hypocrisy, as always, reigns supreme.

People and countries generally act in their own self-interest. They're not reacting as "Europeans" first and foremost. Italian leaders and the Italian public have believed too much of the propaganda. They need to turn some of their cynicism outward instead of inward all the time.

do you have the statistics?
I've just seen them on the news, I'm not sure they are correct
but it appears that northern EU countries end up taking more refugees in than southern EU countries

and about those Maghreb families, explain me how it is in the US. if you get a green card is it valid for yourself only or for the whole family?
if you don't have the right papers you simply don't enter the US, do you?
 
do you have the statistics?
I've just seen them on the news, I'm not sure they are correct
but it appears that northern EU countries end up taking more refugees in than southern EU countries

and about those Maghreb families, explain me how it is in the US. if you get a green card is it valid for yourself only or for the whole family?
if you don't have the right papers you simply don't enter the US, do you?

Goodness, no. It doesn't work like that at all. The borders here are like a sieve. We have people swimming across the Rio Grande from Mexico every night, and walking through rural areas and our deserts at night as well, or hidden in trucks or cars, and on and on, all guided by "coyotes" for pay.

We recently had a situation where thousands and thousands of children were sent across the border with coyotes, some of them winding up abused, because the parents knew that the government would definitely not send them back. They were right too. A certain number of these poor souls die, but most get across the border and join the millions of undocumented people (without a green card or even a visa) already here. They're called "illegal aliens."

Of course, despite the fact that they're here illegally, the schools have to educate their children(you're not even allowed to ask if they're here illegally), the hospitals still have to treat them, and on and on. Recently, it was even proposed that they be given legal driver's licenses. I hope I don't need to tell you that there's a booming market in fake green cards, the hijacking of social security numbers etc. Some loons want them to have the right to vote when they're not even here legally. Not that they would have any difficulty voting if they choose to...there's great resistance to even getting legislation passed requiring people to present any piece of identification when they vote just to make sure they live where they say they live and therefore don't get to vote multiple times. (There used to be a joke that the vote for the Democratic machine in Chicago totaled more than the entire population of the city. When checks are run afterwards, there's always a certain number of "dead" people who voted, or people who are in prison. :)) Even if they get arrested for crimes and are delivered to the border, they just wait a few nights and cross again. Every once in a while there's a new scandal about it.

Oh, and the prior has to do with illegal immigration by the poor who are just "walking" or being "driven" in, although they get the money for the coyotes some way, probably in ways we really don't want to know about. Desperation makes people do awful things. A whole other category is made up of the people who come here by plane with student or even tourist visas and just never leave. Here in New York we used to have a number of Irish illegal immigrants in this category, but lots of other national groups too.

There's absolutely no way to track these people because Americans don't carry, or indeed have, identity cards. A driver's license functions as one but of course there's a certain percentage of the population who never got a driver's license. It doesn't matter, because it's not absolutely essential. You don't have to show any papers to rent a room, or register anywhere when you move your residence, or show papers when buying something if you want to pay cash. Nothing like that. You can go where you want, when you want, buy what you want, and no one can ask you anything. You can usually get a job under the table for cash if you hustle enough, although it might not be great pay. For better work you do need a green card, but as I said it's not that hard to get fakes ones. Lately, there's been a mini boom of relatively well to do women from Hong Kong and other areas of south east Asia who come here around the time that they're due to give birth. They stay until they do, because any child born here is automatically a U.S. citizen.

This all translates into political warfare over the issue.

Unions are anti-illegal immigration because they claim these people take jobs, agribusiness says we need them because Americans won't do this kind of poor paying work, the Church says we have to accept them in the spirit of Christianity and brotherhood and social justice, conservatives rail against it saying it's eating up millions of dollars of revenue and we can't afford it, liberals say if they were given papers and a path to citizenship they'd pay taxes and help the economy, far left people have set up sanctuary cities, the government periodically rounds some people up and deports them, but then passes legislation saying that if the kids reach 18 and joint the service they get citizenship, and on and on. Basically, once someone has children here, the government isn't going to break up the family and send the parents to wherever...Trust me on this stuff. I know lots of immigration lawyers.

Then, every so often, the government issues an "amnesty" and these people get legalized, which only encourages more to come illegally. Meanwhile, engineers, and doctors, and scientists, and computer people, who we really need, are stuck waiting for years to come in legally with green cards.

It's madness. There's no rhyme, reason, logic or sound policy that I can see.

Oh, and as for hypocrisy U.S. style, every once in a while some political career is scuttled because the candidate's family has hired illegal aliens to baby sit, clean the house, do the lawn work, you name it. Those services come cheaper if payments don't have to be made to an employee's Social Security account or health care, and if income taxes don't have to be paid the employee makes more money. So cash exchanges hands and everybody gets a benefit. Well, except for the government, of course, which doesn't get the taxes.

So, no, the U.S. doesn't have a handle on any of this either. There's nothing wrong with immigration. I'm an immigrant here myself, and so was my whole family, but the U.S. can't absorb the entire world's population of poor people. It has to also be done legally, and there has to be some order and control and some rational planning, but I don't see it happening. Anyway, that's my two cents. :)

I feel absolutely antediluvian for being part of a family that waited in line for a number of years, had to have health checks (no TB, no venereal disease, no other communicable disease; today you have to be immunized, I believe) and endure background checks (at that time, they still checked for Communist ties among other things), where the adults had to provide some proof of a needed skill or gainful employment in the past, and also had to give a list of some people willing to provide some help with support upon our arrival. That's what it took for us to get green cards.
 
Goodness, no. It doesn't work like that at all. The borders here are like a sieve. We have people swimming across the Rio Grande from Mexico every night, and walking through rural areas and our deserts at night as well, or hidden in trucks or cars, and on and on, all guided by "coyotes" for pay.

We recently had a situation where thousands and thousands of children were sent across the border with coyotes, some of them winding up abused, because the parents knew that the government would definitely not send them back. They were right too. A certain number of these poor souls die, but most get across the border and join the millions of undocumented people (without a green card or even a visa) already here. They're called "illegal aliens."

Of course, despite the fact that they're here illegally, the schools have to educate their children(you're not even allowed to ask if they're here illegally), the hospitals still have to treat them, and on and on. Recently, it was even proposed that they be given legal driver's licenses. I hope I don't need to tell you that there's a booming market in fake green cards, the hijacking of social security numbers etc. Some loons want them to have the right to vote when they're not even here legally. Not that they would have any difficulty voting if they choose to...there's great resistance to even getting legislation passed requiring people to present any piece of identification when they vote just to make sure they live where they say they live and therefore don't get to vote multiple times. (There used to be a joke that the vote for the Democratic machine in Chicago totaled more than the entire population of the city. When checks are run afterwards, there's always a certain number of "dead" people who voted, or people who are in prison. :)) Even if they get arrested for crimes and are delivered to the border, they just wait a few nights and cross again. Every once in a while there's a new scandal about it.

Oh, and the prior has to do with illegal immigration by the poor who are just "walking" or being "driven" in, although they get the money for the coyotes some way, probably in ways we really don't want to know about. Desperation makes people do awful things. A whole other category is made up of the people who come here by plane with student or even tourist visas and just never leave. Here in New York we used to have a number of Irish illegal immigrants in this category, but lots of other national groups too.

There's absolutely no way to track these people because Americans don't carry, or indeed have, identity cards. A driver's license functions as one but of course there's a certain percentage of the population who never got a driver's license. It doesn't matter, because it's not absolutely essential. You don't have to show any papers to rent a room, or register anywhere when you move your residence, or show papers when buying something if you want to pay cash. Nothing like that. You can go where you want, when you want, buy what you want, and no one can ask you anything. You can usually get a job under the table for cash if you hustle enough, although it might not be great pay. For better work you do need a green card, but as I said it's not that hard to get fakes ones. Lately, there's been a mini boom of relatively well to do women from Hong Kong and other areas of south east Asia who come here around the time that they're due to give birth. They stay until they do, because any child born here is automatically a U.S. citizen.

This all translates into political warfare over the issue.

Unions are anti-illegal immigration because they claim these people take jobs, agribusiness says we need them because Americans won't do this kind of poor paying work, the Church says we have to accept them in the spirit of Christianity and brotherhood and social justice, conservatives rail against it saying it's eating up millions of dollars of revenue and we can't afford it, liberals say if they were given papers and a path to citizenship they'd pay taxes and help the economy, far left people have set up sanctuary cities, the government periodically rounds some people up and deports them, but then passes legislation saying that if the kids reach 18 and joint the service they get citizenship, and on and on. Basically, once someone has children here, the government isn't going to break up the family and send the parents to wherever...Trust me on this stuff. I know lots of immigration lawyers.

Then, every so often, the government issues an "amnesty" and these people get legalized, which only encourages more to come illegally. Meanwhile, engineers, and doctors, and scientists, and computer people, who we really need, are stuck waiting for years to come in legally with green cards.

It's madness. There's no rhyme, reason, logic or sound policy that I can see.

Oh, and as for hypocrisy U.S. style, every once in a while some political career is scuttled because the candidate's family has hired illegal aliens to baby sit, clean the house, do the lawn work, you name it. Those services come cheaper if payments don't have to be made to an employee's Social Security account or health care, and if income taxes don't have to be paid the employee makes more money. So cash exchanges hands and everybody gets a benefit. Well, except for the government, of course, which doesn't get the taxes.

So, no, the U.S. doesn't have a handle on any of this either. There's nothing wrong with immigration. I'm an immigrant here myself, and so was my whole family, but the U.S. can't absorb the entire world's population of poor people. It has to also be done legally, and there has to be some order and control and some rational planning, but I don't see it happening. Anyway, that's my two cents. :)

I feel absolutely antediluvian for being part of a family that waited in line for a number of years, had to have health checks (no TB, no venereal disease, no other communicable disease; today you have to be immunized, I believe) and endure background checks (at that time, they still checked for Communist ties among other things), where the adults had to provide some proof of a needed skill or gainful employment in the past, and also had to give a list of some people willing to provide some help with support upon our arrival. That's what it took for us to get green cards.

Most probably it can't continue like this for long. No welfare or other kind support system can withstand that.
 
What posted a friend of mine today.
Terrible if it's true.
http://voxnews.info/2014/08/14/pd-choc-ripopoliamo-litalia-con-immigrati/

I stopped reading after the first paragraph...queste ******** mi fanno impazzire.

They're already doing it in the Magra Valley right near where I was born. Yes, it's true that many of these ancient little farming villages are either abandoned or are inhabited only by the very old. Does that mean it makes any sense to dump hundreds, and who knows, maybe thousands of these poor, uneducated people into them? That's a solution? It's only a solution for the people living in more wealthy areas who don't want to see them underfoot.

These people will still need tons of social welfare payments. If Italian peasants with centuries of experience on how to farm this land can't make a decent living from such small holdings in this day and age, just what makes bureaucrats of the PD think that Moroccans or Somalis will be able to do it? If they're not farming, just what are they supposed to do there? These places were abandoned precisely because there is not work there; no commerce, no industry, just history and beauty, and you can't eat either.

They're just transporting the slums from the city to the countryside. Plus, they will be slums full of people who don't speak the language, and, more importantly, many of these people hold social and religious views that date to the 700's, and many of them have shown no indication that they are willing to assimilate and adopt modern attitudes. Didn't some of them just toss Christian asylum seekers overboard for praying to Jesus?

Has everybody taken leave of their senses? If Italians persist in marrying late if at all and having only one child, and Italy needs to import workers to pay the taxes necessary to support social services for the increasingly aged population, then does it make sense to import people with no marketable skills? We're not building huge railroad lines and public works anymore, and in America, at least, it's a post industrialist era. We don't produce all that much. How many factory jobs can be provided? How many low paying, menial jobs need to be filled? What are the rest of them supposed to do?

It's beyond me where the reason is either in Europe or America.

Ed. To remove double quote
 
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