Politics EU Marshall Plan for Europe 2020

Dagne

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EU leaders to consider ‘Marshall Plan’ for Europe

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/...s-to-consider-marshall-plan-for-europe-148703

In a draft statement prepared ahead of the leaders' discussion and seen by POLITICO, officials wrote that the bloc would need an “exit strategy, a comprehensive recovery plan and unprecedented investment” for the coronavirus crisis, and would “invite the Commission to start work on a proposal for a Roadmap for recovery accompanied by an Action Plan.”


It is all rather abstract now, but what I wanted is a universal income support directly to individuals, rather than using the existing EU funding mechanisms which are way too bureaucratic and too slow. Besides, supporting economic development through EU funds is rather more about supporting political elites than really helping the people. Somehow I believe things should be very different this time.


What do you think, what are the ideas about checks being send to people directly in the US or the UK?
For instance, do you believe that US oil industry should be supported? Or is it time for them to go under with cheap crude oil?
 
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The income support depends upon each state,

It is rather difficult to say a person in Greece will get the same amount of E, with a person in Sweden or with person in France,
The quantities of E will be according pop and state capitals, and the damage done to economy,
This has nothing to do with US oils,

In Europe the move of 11 is now the discuss,
the Corona-Bond title,

Europe also plans to buy back the factories and corporations.
tottaly rejecting the Chicago model, and Friedman,
and returning to Kaynesian model

it is uncertain the economical future of Europe,
 
stupid politicians have endebted their countries the past decades
they failed to bring their budgets in order
they prefer to buy their votes and pass the invoice to future generations

such plans are a dream for such politicians
there will be lots of money spent the next 6 months
maybe they should, but those who spend it should be accountable for the next 10 years
 
stupid politicians have endebted their countries the past decades
they failed to bring their budgets in order
they prefer to buy their votes and pass the invoice to future generations

such plans are a dream for such politicians
there will be lots of money spent the next 6 months
maybe they should, but those who spend it should be accountable for the next 10 years

something inside me tends to agree.
That is the mistake of modern democracy,
by allow vote to all,
 
I am not surprised that the idea of this post-Corona Marshall Plan should come from my "old buddy" Charles Michel. It would be interesting to see what concrete actions are proposed. I think that the economy will pick up quickly after the quarantine is lifted. It's mostly self-inflicted damage. Those who suffered the most are people in the travel and hospitality industry, but the money lost this Spring will be spent by travellers and diners as soon as things go back to normal. Travel plans have usually been postponed rather than completely cancelled. That means that there will be a travel boom afterwards. As for most consumer products, I doubt that the Corona pandemics will have any serious effect, as people keep buying as usual, but maybe more online than before.
 
I am not surprised that the idea of this post-Corona Marshall Plan should come from my "old buddy" Charles Michel. It would be interesting to see what concrete actions are proposed. I think that the economy will pick up quickly after the quarantine is lifted. It's mostly self-inflicted damage. Those who suffered the most are people in the travel and hospitality industry, but the money lost this Spring will be spent by travellers and diners as soon as things go back to normal. Travel plans have usually been postponed rather than completely cancelled. That means that there will be a travel boom afterwards. As for most consumer products, I doubt that the Corona pandemics will have any serious effect, as people keep buying as usual, but maybe more online than before.

I think that international travel will be restricted till the end of the year.
Maybe in some countries the epidemic will be banned by end may, but not importing the virus again will be a serious challenge.
If the virus would re-ignite in some countries, it will be disastrous.
Marc Van Ranst says there will be a solution only when there is a vaccin, which may last till summer 2021.

The challenges should not be underestimated, and if politicians start to spend money just to profile themselves, consequences could be disastrous.
Financial support is needed, but it should be well-targeted.
 
Somehow I do not want all things to go back as as before.

Overspending, overconsuming, overpolluting, overworking, having no time for family and people whom you really like being with - many things in the current consumer society make people live like squirrels turning in the weal - such life is the real lock down, not the physical lockdown many of us are in now.


The positive things that we can learn from lockdown:

1) have a home and family where you really feel good;
2) many things are not necessary - like
- stressing oneself every day by going to work which you don't think is meaningful,
- buying things for showing off your status,
- going to eat out, only to find that you can make it better at home
- going to far away places only to continue with the lifestyle that you're having anyway
3) some things could be great or may help you to find important things for yourself like
- being able to sleep as much as you want and getting up whenever you feel like
- having time for emptiness in your mind
- enjoying the nature and long walks
- finding time for doing what you really like and where you are the CREATOR!

3) less traffic in the air and on the roads is just great.
 
The Truth behind corona-virus,

the law of controling circulation and its effect on agricultural.
next year, especially after summer, many food prices will raise more than 200%, especially vegies and fruits and dry nuts
the fear for the local open market will raise the packaged food consuption, meaning that Super market will be more profit, but more expencive.
I am allowed to go for 4 hours at orchande, but not to have a helper or an employ.

The effects in Logistics,
lately we see strange behavour in many EU countries as concern Logistics,
Delay at Boarders, convoy drive only behind a traffic police patrol vehicle,
stop for medical check every 4 hours.
I wonder if that could make a change at the logistics map,
The good point is that maybe a delay from Big Industry as before,
for example one factory at Athens to provide for half Europe,
maybe they broke to smaller giving oportunities for jobs.
Anyway mosr who are in this job expect that will create a kind of shortage of many products,

The internet 'infection'
Internet is a good tool, but also dangerous ,
The lockdown of schools, and the Stay Home, I think raise the bondage of youth with internet,
and we will need years to reverse it.

etc etc

to be honest,
I think that the ones who are happy are those who are connected with private and public insurance/retirement, cause Corona kills most elder,

the most damaged for recent period are those who are connected with parties, concert, political demonstrations and churches or temens,
even 'gansters' of drugs etc etc
but in future will be touristic corporations, from air-transport to local pension,

a local economist say that my country at coming Octomber may come back to just after crisis era,
the delay he estimates is 6 years.

the most certain is that 'hunger' is certain for next 2 years
 
Somehow I do not want all things to go back as as before.

Overspending, overconsuming, overpolluting, overworking, having no time for family and people whom you really like being with - many things in the current consumer society make people live like squirrels turning in the weal - such life is the real lock down, not the physical lockdown many of us are in now.


The positive things that we can learn from lockdown:

1) have a home and family where you really feel good;
2) many things are not necessary - like
- stressing oneself every day by going to work which you don't think is meaningful,
- buying things for showing off your status,
- going to eat out, only to find that you can make it better at home
- going to far away places only to continue with the lifestyle that you're having anyway
3) some things could be great or may help you to find important things for yourself like
- being able to sleep as much as you want and getting up whenever you feel like
- having time for emptiness in your mind
- enjoying the nature and long walks
- finding time for doing what you really like and where you are the CREATOR!

3) less traffic in the air and on the roads is just great.

I completely agree. :)
 
1.jpg


It has started,
Global hunger will come inside 2020,
many food production countries will stop exportation,
until a huge and safe stock gathered for their own,

at 2020 summer/autumn may see some types of foods to be distributed as in 'other times',
the corona effect to global economy,
depends on each country skill to cover the cost,
but also connected with the fear of riots and revolts,
so many countries are shearching on how to keep people calm,
at least with plenty of local food,

https://www.proag.com/news/countries-starting-to-hoard-food-threatening-global-trade/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...iders-curbs-on-exports-of-some-food-medicines

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ade-thrown-into-turmoil-on-export-halt-muddle

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...nations-edge-toward-food-nationalism-k87a0gqh

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...arting-to-hoard-food-threatening-global-trade
 
In my imagination Greece is the country of plenty - we have the Greek civilisation because Greek cities managed to produced more than consumed themselves and thus trade and arts flourished
1143.jpg

It will be just fine
 
I think that EU countries should be assisting each other with medical facilities and actually sending the doctors to team up with the regions with the most cases.
And it should be not just a voluntarily gesture of good will but a must.
It is very obvious that EU has the resources only they have to be allocated wisely, instead of each national country "digging in" and waiting for the worst to come. The epidemic moves in waves, and two-three weeks make a lot of difference . Medical capacities in Italy and Spain are overstreched now while other countries still have the resources and should be allocating them to help those countries.
It is basic strategic planning.

By going to other countries doctors could learn how to avoid major mistakes, which could be very valuable when taking back this experience to their countries
Besides, doctors should get enough sleep - deprivation of sleep to 4 hours per day during one week suppresses the immune system by 80%, which is really dangerous for medical staff.
Medical staff are a strategic resource, they should be properly taken care off on a managerial level, because individual people even they know this, often cannot help to do anything differently during emergency situation.
 
I'm quite disapointed from Germany. Unfortunately is not ready to adopt the leading role that -not only- E.U., but global interest - if there is such-, requires desperately from a country of that geopolitical size.


But this issue, from the begining it would be better not to put to the table. From now on, we have not be surprized, if we have the opposite effects of that we
expect from the every possibly plan, and that will be no other than the one we have to worry most... -Will we get over this as Europe united?


Anyway, all that cases with money from the sky, it is like the cases of the cheese and the mousetraps
Firstly you see the cheese, but later you feel the catch that break your spine.


We dont need -just- money, we need serious and responsible politics, we need solidarity and a couple of "europresidents" with all their mean to.
Otherwise... "The Party is over guys."
 
It is a major global event.
Everything will be different when we get over this.


"The beehive is buzzing", we all feel it now... and that ALL never was, more absolut and total.
 
In my imagination Greece is the country of plenty - we have the Greek civilisation because Greek cities managed to produced more than consumed themselves and thus trade and arts flourished
1143.jpg

It will be just fine
There is plenty of local variety. There is also plenty of quality among a certain local and topic experiance up on issues and matters. But when it is about the sizes of the quantity of products it is relativelly poor compare to the neighbours around us (Turkey.Balkans. Italy etc) There is lot of deal with the soil and the place and as well with the social and economic factors of each case.
For example (since you mention about the local Iron age) A roman aristocrat (-patrician to say;) he really have a possesion of a huge piece of land, relativelly
with an athenian aristocat, and the reason was that the enviroment was not exactly exploitative for huge investments, for many reasons politcal, social and
economic among natural limititations of landscape.


An other, but a little bit earlier incidents, is the noumerous migrations to all directions to built colonies and not just trade. I have the feeling that the issue to a
lot of cases wes overpopulation, in other words "few resources".


It is a peculiar topic. (the case of the "plenty" to our perception, -not the ecxclusivity of the greek paradigm above, I mean.)
 
The income support depends upon each state,

It is rather difficult to say a person in Greece will get the same amount of E, with a person in Sweden or with person in France,
The quantities of E will be according pop and state capitals, and the damage done to economy,
This has nothing to do with US oils,

In Europe the move of 11 is now the discuss,
the Corona-Bond title,

Europe also plans to buy back the factories and corporations.
tottaly rejecting the Chicago model, and Friedman,
and returning to Kaynesian model

it is uncertain the economical future of Europe,

Is it the "End of the Theories" as a lot of thinkers addressed before?
We'll see.

Greece hold well, so far. We're bonded than ever remember. We alligned with our goverment, and we are ready to deal with the big issues
that burden all 21st century societies. And those are:
Migration, economy, climate changes.
 
Is it the "End of the Theories" as a lot of thinkers addressed before?
We'll see.

Greece hold well, so far. We're bonded than ever remember. We alligned with our goverment, and we are ready to deal with the big issues
that burden all 21st century societies. And those are:
Migration, economy, climate changes.

I also have that feeling,
and until now we wallk good,
and in Greece we all know that the hanger era is now, not 2008 crisis,
the path to Freedom, or Death, :cool-v:
 
I think that EU countries should be assisting each other with medical facilities and actually sending the doctors to team up with the regions with the most cases.
And it should be not just a voluntarily gesture of good will but a must.
It is very obvious that EU has the resources only they have to be allocated wisely, instead of each national country "digging in" and waiting for the worst to come. The epidemic moves in waves, and two-three weeks make a lot of difference . Medical capacities in Italy and Spain are overstreched now while other countries still have the resources and should be allocating them to help those countries.
It is basic strategic planning.

By going to other countries doctors could learn how to avoid major mistakes, which could be very valuable when taking back this experience to their countries
Besides, doctors should get enough sleep - deprivation of sleep to 4 hours per day during one week suppresses the immune system by 80%, which is really dangerous for medical staff.
Medical staff are a strategic resource, they should be properly taken care off on a managerial level, because individual people even they know this, often cannot help to do anything differently during emergency situation.

You're a sound thinker, Dagne, and more important, a good person.

The world would be a better place with more people like you.
 
I think the world changes so fast with the coronavirus. There is a need for many major changes that people are talking about, and some of them have been taking place already. Our new Marshall Plan should take that into consideration :)

EDUCATION
Online education - it opens a lot of possibilities to receive the best quality of online lectures. All children - even from poorest rural regions - could watch the same top level lectures. There would be a lot of competition among teachers in how to prepare and deliver a lecture. It is a golden opportunity for education - to turn everyday boring lessons to TED kind of thing, so that students could watch them whenever they needed.

FLEXIBLE WORK
Working from home / part time - some people may actually like it - to have more free time, to be able to organise their work time more like their leisure time, get rid of hierarchical nature persistent in some working cultures, etc.


HEALTH CARE SYSTEM
Cooperation among medical researchers - all new research on coronavirus is being put online immediately and free of charge - I think it must be exiting for researchers.
The countries need to think over the consequences of globalisation in terms of producing medical supplies. We just found out that if Chinese factories stop, or production chains are broken - all world is in trouble - no respirators, disposable gloves, etc etc.
Cooperation among medical practitioners - this is not really happening now, but there is a definite need for that. In future EUROPE may have something like NATO medical forces, that could be allocated to anywhere during a short span of time, to practically deal with emergency kind of situations.


FOOD
Changes in the food market. I don't know much about it - with the crisis people switch to simpler local foods, reduce consumption of exclusive/expensive stuff like fresh meats and fish (even Italians), which may have some positive side to it. Eating more local simple food may be actually good for many of us.

ENVIRONMENT
Reduction of pollution - if many people start working less / from home / think more carefully before travelling because of coronavirus that could help to reduce CO2 emissions and improve air quality.


POLITICIANS
There is a need for honest and fair politicians who are driven by moral values, rather than put their narrow interest first. Besides, we need competent and talented people and effective leadership. I just could not listen to the first LT emergency meeting with such boring mediocre bureaucrats speaking - it is so sad when talented people do not reach the power, however ruling elites are made up of people who's lust for power is so great, but who's ego are much bigger than their capabilities. Overall, a good person should avoid going to the Parliament, because it is full of selfish mean people, intrigues, power games, etc. A typical bureaucrat is a "grey" mediocre person, who feels helpless against the system and just follows the trend even if they themselves as human beings do not agree with the decisions they have to implement.

In case of emergency, people can get really angry with the politicians, because their incompetence becomes so obvious - and it is tragic when populistic behaviour/incompetence leads to actual deaths. All typical party fights (using coronavirus issues for their party benefit) seems to be so absolutely intolerable now.

Overall, what is needed is politics which are driven by moral values rather than interests for generating more income/power. I mean, being efficient matters too, however, what kind of EU/EC do we have if they have the resources, but cannot take actions when really needed? Will we in the EU just watch how people are suffering and passing away in Italian and Spanish hospitals, while other countries have the resources, but don't do anything significant to help? It is a real crisis of values of the Western World.

On a global level, the USA has the economic power to be a world leader, but the leadership driven by interests (for income) is no good. I heard one philosopher on BBC Four say, why would the world follow the US if it's leader says America first... What is really sad, that even within the US, the political elites often choose - as it seems - markets over human lives. The system is slow and inefficient when taking actions... Overall, we all should learn from Singapore, South Korea, and Taiwan, they managed to deal with the situation well.
 
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