Final thread.. which Europeans overlap with Levantines? Multiple choice.

[oreo_cookie]

Anything else anyone has to add?

 

[Rinconete]

I don't understand this type of survey. Here, everyone can vote on what he wants.

 

[Yetos]

why not the opposite poll?

which middle eastern or para Arabic populations looks like European?

I would vote for wide Levantines Kurds etc

or which European looks like Central Asian?

Surely I would vote for Northern Europe.

 

[Goga]

why not the opposite poll?

which middle eastern or para Arabic populations looks like European?

I would vote for wide Levantines Kurds etc

or which European looks like Central Asian?

Surely I would vote for Northern Europe.

With all due respect but Kurds in general do not look like Europeans (and Europeans do not look like Kurds). Kurds are Iranic peoples that look like other Iranic people in Asia & Caucasus. Overall Kurds do look like some Caucasian folks from the Caucasus and Iranic folks in West and Central Asia.

The folks from the Levant speak Arabic and are also cultural and in appearance Arabs. If they ain't no Arabic who are??

 

[lebowsky]

They look very Arabic to me and that's who they're: Arabs.

The same to me. I Have a question, why do you think many spaniards, sicilians, portuguese looks like latam?

 

[Goga]

The same to me. I Have a question, why do you think many spaniards, sicilians, portuguese looks like latam?

I don't think that the Iberians and especially Sicilians look like Latin American. According to me Sicilians look very Sicilian first and Italian second and Spaniards look very Spanish.

The thing is I believe that the very first original R1b folks were as 'dark' as the modern Spaniards or even darker / schwartier in features. Haplogroup R1b is NOT a Nordic haplogroup.

Also South Europeans have a lot of hg. E.

Spanish folks are not dark because they're mixed, but because they have a lot of hg. R1b. Think about the homogeneous Basque population. Basque people are even darker/schwartier that other Spanish folks, and the Basques have more R1b.

Other Europeans have somehow lighter features ('whiter') than the Spanish folks because they have more hg. 'I'.

I believe that the original carriers of hg. 'I' were lighter than the original carriers of hg. 'R1b'!

 

[oreo_cookie]

The same to me. I Have a question, why do you think many spaniards, sicilians, portuguese looks like latam?

They don't. Latin Americans are largely mixed race.. some combination of Spanish with either African, Native American, or both mixed in. Unmixed Latin Americans just look like whatever European ancestry they come from.

 

[Yetos]

With all due respect but Kurds in general do not look like Europeans (and Europeans do not look like Kurds). Kurds are Iranic peoples that look like other Iranic people in Asia & Caucasus. Overall Kurds do look like some Caucasian folks from the Caucasus and Iranic folks in West and Central Asia.

The folks from the Levant speak Arabic and are also cultural and in appearance Arabs. If they ain't no Arabic who are??

returning respect,
Modern Levantines speak arabic,
reading Yehunda's Book we find an old pre-aramaic that connects also ancient Greek and Latin,,
Aramaic can be found also in Caucasus areas,

now if you consider J2a a clear semitic you are wrong,
we have J2a that is developent in Europe also,
as J2 clearly Indian etc,

for some guys if you believe that European means Blond and blue eyes you are wrong

exept if half Europe is not Europe for you,
considering Otzi's brown and Brachycephalic, then Alpine race which is not Brachykephalic is it European?

the Central Asian look like of Northern Europeans does not make them European original, and the south Europeans invaders in to the Northern Lands,

now check Kurds and then check some Balkanic populations and some Italian,
also check some Russian populations, but not of North, around Crimean and little eastern
Then anounce your results,

PS it is not my type to post photos of man,

 

[Goga]

returning respect,
Modern Levantines speak arabic,
reading Yehunda's Book we find an old pre-aramaic that connects also ancient Greek and Latin,,
Aramaic can be found also in Caucasus areas,

now if you consider J2a a clear semitic you are wrong,
we have J2a that is developent in Europe also,
as J2 clearly Indian etc,

for some guys if you believe that European means Blond and blue eyes you are wrong

exept if half Europe is not Europe for you,
considering Otzi's brown and Brachycephalic, then Alpine race which is not Brachykephalic is it European?

the Central Asian look like of Northern Europeans does not make them European original, and the south Europeans invaders in to the Northern Lands,

now check Kurds and then check some Balkanic populations and some Italian,
also check some Russian populations, but not of North, around Crimean and little eastern
Then anounce your results,

PS it is not my type to post photos of man,

I don't think that J2 is Semitic. According to me only some subclades of hg. 'E' and 'J1' are Semtic and the Levatines have a lot Semitic J1 and the Middle Eastern hg. 'E'.

I'm Kurdish and I know how Kurds do look like. There're dark Kurds and there're light Kurds. Some of the Kurdish lineages are from the Northern Caucasus. I believe that Kurds have light features from the Northern Caucaus. From people who carried I2a into Kurdistan with them; be it Sarmatians/Alanians or Cimmerians (maybe Sarmatians and Cimmerians were two different names for the same people !). But all these people were NorthWest Iranic like the modern Kurds are. That's why I wrote that Kurds are Iranic & Caucasian in appearance. Europeans look somehow something different than Kurds and Kurds in general have 'darker' features than modern Europeans.


Yes, I know what you mean. I dont like to post the pictures of other unknown individuals too. It is an invasion of individuals privacy and in conflict with the copyright rules.

 

[Drac II]

The thing is I believe that the very first original R1b folks were as 'dark' as the modern Spaniards or even darker / schwartier in features. Haplogroup R1b is NOT a Nordic haplogroup.

Also South Europeans have a lot of hg. E.

Spanish folks are not dark because they're mixed, but because they have a lot of hg. R1b. Think about the homogeneous Basque population. Basque people are even darker/schwartier that other Spanish folks, and the Basques have more R1b.

Other Europeans have somehow lighter features ('whiter') than the Spanish folks because they have more hg. 'I'.

You seem to persist with this little fallacy that Spaniards are somehow "darker", "swarthier" than all other people in Europe, when in fact no anthropological study has ever stated any such thing. If anything Spain is in fact one of the lighter areas of southern Europe, specially the Basques (whom you incorrectly think are "the darkest") and other northern Spaniards, who in Jablonski and Chaplin's skin pigmentation study (The evolution of human skin coloration) were found somewhat lighter-skinned than Belgians and southeastern English.

 

[Knovas]

To have very pale skin between Northeast Iberians is quite usual. Being almost entirely Catalan, I can assure it's difficult to find someone as pale as me, and the same can be aplied to my sister, mother, grandma, and several friends whose heritage is mainly from the Northeast.

There are errors in your thoughts Goga. You asume that finding high R1b in Spain means is what we are made of. Of course we are, but it's not the major part (except between the Basques, but that's another story). According to the latest Dienekes' Calculator, we are mostly Southwestern, what means we are more likely I2a1a* and other I2a clades autosomally speaking, nothing more, nothing less. No need to say these are absolutely native to Europe.

The other thing, is that R1b is not necessarily darker depending on the clade. English and Irish are surely made in a very high percent of R1b clades (autosomal), and they are quite light in general. If you want to look for darker types of R1b, you should look at those found among the Eastern Mediterranean or Middle Eastern peoples. That's all we can asume.

The same to me. I Have a question, why do you think many spaniards, sicilians, portuguese looks like latam?

Strange question. You are quite recurrent having only 12 interventions. Keep trying.

I think there was a guy who called himself latam and he was a t.r.o.l.l. It's curious to see this again...

 

[Yetos]

I don't think that J2 is Semitic. According to me only some subclades of hg. 'E' and 'J1' are Semtic and the Levatines have a lot Semitic J1 and the Middle Eastern hg. 'E'.

I'm Kurdish and I know how Kurds do look like. There're dark Kurds and there're light Kurds. Some of the Kurdish lineages are from the Northern Caucasus. I believe that Kurds have light features from the Northern Caucaus. From people who carried I2a into Kurdistan with them; be it Sarmatians/Alanians or Cimmerians (maybe Sarmatians and Cimmerians were two different names for the same people !). But all these people were NorthWest Iranic like the modern Kurds are. That's why I wrote that Kurds are Iranic & Caucasian in appearance. Europeans look somehow something different than Kurds and Kurds in general have 'darker' features than modern Europeans.


Yes, I know what you mean. I dont like to post the pictures of other unknown individuals too. It is an invasion of individuals privacy and in conflict with the copyright rules.

hmm
considering my view, and my few posts in another thread Kurds are more ancient than you think,
and they also connected with Aegean-Balkanic populations,

I don't know if that is after Alexander times, or at Skudra case times, or more ancient the Kouretes time,
but in many lod culture remains we find simmilar.
you may read my posts,

Kurds are maybe semi-minor Asian semi middle east,
but there is a lot of Iranic populations that looks more to European than to arabic or Indian,
In fact for me the area of south west caucas with Aegean Levant to almost half iran (Persia) and some parts of Afganistan share a typical phenotype that surely pass as European,

my point is that European does not exclusive mean Scandinavian Blonde,

 

[Goga]

To have very pale skin between Northeast Iberians is quite usual. Being almost entirely Catalan, I can assure it's difficult to find someone as pale as me, and the same can be aplied to my sister, mother, grandma, and several friends whose heritage is mainly from the Northeast.

There are errors in your thoughts Goga. You asume that finding high R1b in Spain means is what we are made of. Of course we are, but it's not the major part (except between the Basques, but that's another story). According to the latest Dienekes' Calculator, we are mostly Southwestern, what means we are more likely I2a1a* and other I2a clades autosomally speaking, nothing more, nothing less. No need to say these are absolutely native to Europe.

The other thing, is that R1b is not necessarily darker depending on the clade. English and Irish are surely made in a very high percent of R1b clades (autosomal), and they are quite light in general. If you want to look for darker types of R1b, you should look at those found among the Eastern Mediterranean or Middle Eastern peoples. That's all we can asume.

According to me is the Iberian hg. R1b a Southwestern haplogroup, because the majority of it has been found in Iberia. It is a very native haplogroup to Iberia! I don't think that the Iberians have or even had much of hg. 'I'.

English and Irish people have much more hg. 'I' and even R1a. They're also mixed with the 'Nordic' Scandinavians (Vikings) and Germanic people. That's why English people are lighter (whiter) than the Iberians.

 

[Goga]

my point is that European does not exclusive mean Scandinavian Blonde,

Of course not. Spanish folks (but also Bulgarians etc.) are a great example that Europeans are not exclusively blonde or something

 

[Knovas]

R1b in Iberia is surely very recent in comparison. The vast majority of people who lived in Iberia were I2a's, and there was a massive replacement at some point. That's why yo see very high R1b, but the previous autosomes are still very present. We have discussed this in several threads, specially the Paleolithic remants one. Actually, you are alone with such thoughts.

And again, you are wrong about the Iberian darkness, and specially Northeast Iberians. I guess you did not see much of them.

 

[lebowsky]

They don't. Latin Americans are largely mixed race.. some combination of Spanish with either African, Native American, or both mixed in. Unmixed Latin Americans just look like whatever European ancestry they come from.

I don’t mean genetically, but in physical appearance. I've also noticed that some of them are very similar to the Arabs. Don’t they have some Spanish blood and Arabic?

 

[Cambrius (The Red)]

How incredibly uninformed some people are. The great majority of NATIVE Iberians look like standard Western Europeans. That's reality. Take a look at the many group and individual pictures of Iberians posted here.

As regards physical appearance, autosomal DNA (governs general PHYSICAL APPEARANCE) gives you the best clues. Iberians are between 86-91% Euro autosomally, with over 50% West Euro, North Euro and North Atlantic. No further discussion is necessary.

 

[Goga]

How incredibly uninformed some people are. The great majority of NATIVE Iberians look like standard Western Europeans. That's reality. Take a look at the many group and individual pictures of Iberians posted here.

I was in Barcelona and I was in Madrid. I live in Amsterdam and here live many Spanish people. And Spanish people in general are MUCH darker than Dutch folks. Fact!

I'm sorry that I'm not blind!

 

[Cambrius (The Red)]

I was in Barcelona and I was in Madrid. I live in Amsterdam and here live many Spanish people. And Spanish people in general are MUCH darker than Dutch folks. Fact!

I'm sorry that I'm not blind!

Of course they are darker than the Dutch. DUH! Are you even sure the people you speak of are NATIVE Spaniards? As a whole, Spaniards resemble Western Euros in general. No, you are not blind, just biased in your perceptions. :useless: Read the Jablonski (2006) research.

Stop embarrassing yourself. You seem to have an obsession with darkening Iberians. It's quite strange.

 

[Goga]

Kurds are maybe semi-minor Asian semi middle east

Kurds are 100% West Asian. Kurdish race is an admixture of Caucasians (Hurrians) and INDO-European Northwest Iranic (=Aryan) people. There're also some East Iranic - Central Asian (Parthian) influences in Kurds.

But proto-Indo-Europeans migrated from West Asia into the Pontic Steppes at the first place. So Iranic folks are actually West Asian too.