Final thread.. which Europeans overlap with Levantines? Multiple choice.

[albanopolis]

Obviously Southern Europeans overlap genetically more than Northerns with Levantines. But no one in Europe is free Levantine lineages,

 

[Alan]

sorry GOga but I don't agree at all
1- all Kurds regions have not the same metric means
2- but as a whole the most of them show the same means
3- Kurds are more mesocephalic than semitic Middel-Easterners and than persic Iranians, as a whole: they show typically a "european-like" trend , brachycephalic: 2 sorts: 'alpinoid' + 'dinaroid', at high level - among the dolichocephalic element, different subtypes of 'mediterranean', someones closer to the Yemen type, some others more 'western mediterranean, someones more on the so called 'indo-afghan' type -
4- in details, they show a little bit more (even if light enough yet) of depigmented nordic-like element, and on another side, a litlle bit of what seams a not well defined darker skinned element of Indian origin ('veddoid' influence upon 'indo-afghan'???)
5- it is principally this "indian" element that for me differentiate them from Armenians.
&: partially depigmented populations exist too among the Lurs / Luri (I lack details about the history of these last ones)
my conclusion: NO, Kurds are not identical to Iranians, and they are also different enough from Middel-Easterners, and close enough to Armenians
just my thoughts about external phenotypical features, that stay to be linked to genetic concealed structures (autosomals)
have a good day

Genetically speaking there is no "Verddoid impact on Kurds. on Avergae Kurds score ~1% of ASI in admixture runs like Dodecad. Persians score 4% but even that is rather too irrelevant (relevance starts at 5% for me) to show any signs of Onge like phenotypes.

I even assume that these "ASI" percentages are in fact those ANE genes which have contributed into the making of ASI. What you take as "Onge" like influence is actually what I would consider as Proto ANE like influence from South_Central Asia. Since the ANE influence in Kurds and Iranians is on average 5-8% higher than in Semite Speakers. But than you will also be able to find Semites and Armenian speakers with this ANE like appearance.

Also those "Nordic" looking people could be the result of the North European component which is higher in Iranic speaking groups of West Asia in comparision to Semitic speaking people. But than I doubt that all light eyed and haired individuals are the result of this admixture. Since Syriacs/Assyrians do have quite some light eyed and haired individuals despite close to 0% North European.


What I have realized however is that in Iranic speaking groups in difference to Central Semite tribes, is that some of these light featured individuals have pseudo North or East European characteristics.
To show what I mean.

light haired

Syriac


Kurd



Iranian/Persian


Hope this makes clear what I mean.


But on a whole as Goga said these light featured individuals can be seen as locals anyways since we can't divide Europe and Western Asia solely based on few components. West Asian component is as much part of the European genetic landscape as North European is part of the West Asian genetic landscape. It is the frequency what makes the difference between those too regions. Also the "North European" in Western Asia is almost completely of the Eastern (ANE) derived variant and lacks the Western (WHG) derived genes.

If we go by that old (and probably outdated) cephalic index measurement. I would say from own appearance most Kurds would be mesocephalic with ~40% as you said, ~30% Dolichocephalic and ~30% brachycephalic.

Genetically speaking Kurds are between the Iranian_Anatolian_Georgian axis while Armenians between the Levantine-Anatolian-Georgian axis. It's not an (non existing) Veddoid element that differentiates Kurds from Armenians. It is the fact that Kurds have higher levels of ANE and some weaker levels of Early European farmer DNA.

 

[Mars]

still a bit misleading as about 1/4 of all the people of Lebanon look lighter than this and have lighter eyes too. and I am speaking from actual experience, not just photos I see on the web.

I don't know many levantines actually, except some kebab retailers in my hometown (no offence, sincerely). I think the people posted in this thread could overlap with the most "extreme" mediterranean looking individuals one could find in most southern european countries. But a typical southern italian/balkanite/iberian etc. usually displays different features, due to the ancient Hunter-Gatherer component, I guess, or different forms of genetic adaptation.
These syrians and lebanese are probably more similar to the ancient farmers, even if these populations probably mixed with more components during this long time in history.

 

[Hauteville]

I don't know many levantines actually, except some kebab retailers in my hometown (no offence, sincerely). I think the people posted in this thread could overlap with the most "extreme" mediterranean looking individuals one could find in most southern european countries. But a typical southern italian/balkanite/iberian etc. usually displays different features, due to the ancient Hunter-Gatherer component, I guess, or different forms of genetic adaptation.
These syrians and lebanese are probably more similar to the ancient farmers, even if these populations probably mixed with more components during this long time in history.

Probably some high classe of the levant can pass as south europeans especially the lebanese.
Very rarely palestinians for example pass in south Europe.