Final thread.. which Europeans overlap with Levantines? Multiple choice.

[zanipolo]

The same old as the rest of Iberians, but according to the latest data, Aragonese have more than them. We are refering to I2a1a* in the vast majority of cases, that's the subclade both have.

¿Or you are refering to a very Paleolithic form of I found only in a measurable percent among them? I'd like to see the source if that's the case, although the dominant clade is the one I already mentioned. Don't know about the relevance of this.

You might be right about aragonese, but old aragonese linguistically was a mix of basque and ( more of ) catalan. they could have come from basques and gone through navarre and then settled in aragon area or in reverse in ancient times

 

[oreo_cookie]

Anyone else want to vote on the poll or post pictures?

 

[oreo_cookie]

Lebanese

 

[jurrian]

iberians and italians, i think. PS: oreo_cookie, I love your polls about similarities between europeans and north-africans/levantines. They are more illuminating that those cold and numeric threads about genetic maps and autosomal studies. IMO. Racial reality is more about what your eyes perceive.

 

[Knovas]

Ok.

Then I perceive you are Canek. Reality

View attachment 5388


PD: For more you repeat, opinions and personal apreciations haven't got the same value as genetic studies. Sorry.

Morover: if one hasn't got any opinion, all words are useless. Interesting point I think.

 

[Carlos]

iberians and italians, i think. PS: oreo_cookie, I love your polls about similarities between europeans and north-africans/levantines. They are more illuminating that those cold and numeric threads about genetic maps and autosomal studies. IMO. Racial reality is more about what your eyes perceive.

From my point of view and if they are Lebanese Arabic unscented seem much more like the Italians that the Iberians. The Iberians on numerous occasions as a wildcard for all the Mediterranean but do not think it is easy to identify with anyone.

Laura Muñoz, this woman such as my point of view embodies the very essence Iberian this strange form of eyes (I do not mean color that can be an accident) I have seen much in the Spanish Levante region of Valencia, Murcia to Almeria and one province in eastern Andalusia.

She seems to be the sister of the Lady of Elche, fearless and insurmountable scans the present from the distant past. I honestly do not see any resemblance to any other place in the Mediterranean.

 

[julia90]

many can pass without problems in southern europe.. though as a group they are certainly more dark on percentage

 

[wormhole]

Greeks, Sicilians, Maltese, Cypriots. Some Southern Italians could in theory as well I guess, but not many.

However, LOTS of Levantines have Euro admixture and are genetically close to Europeans, this is nothing new and nothing to worry about.

 

[MOESAN]

They look very Arabic to me and that's who they're: Arabs.

I disagree! some of them "look" arab, not the majority: they are often more sturdy of body, and show different bracycephalic influences that are very rare among true Arabs: their faces often evocates influences from Anatolia or Caucasus: history of this "carrefour" -

 

[Alexandros]

Being a Cypriot, I would also agree that a substantial part of Cypriots would classify as Levantines. There are others however that would definitely classify as south Europeans (i.e. Italians, south French, etc) and even north European (check Maciamo's distribution of Y-Hg by country to see the considerable frequencies of R1 and I). This applies even more to Greeks and Italians. It is a bit ridiculous to claim that 'Greeks' and 'Italians' classify as Levantines. Some Northern Greeks could be mistaken for Russian, German, even Scandinavian for example. The same goes for Northern Italians (ok maybe not Russian, i.e. low R1a frequencies). You have to bear in mind that some modern ethnic groups are much more diverse genetically and phenotypically (i.e. Greeks, Italians) than others (i.e. British and Scandinavians).

 

[MOESAN]

With all due respect but Kurds in general do not look like Europeans (and Europeans do not look like Kurds). Kurds are Iranic peoples that look like other Iranic people in Asia & Caucasus. Overall Kurds do look like some Caucasian folks from the Caucasus and Iranic folks in West and Central Asia.

The folks from the Levant speak Arabic and are also cultural and in appearance Arabs. If they ain't no Arabic who are??

sorry GOga but I don't agree at all
1- all Kurds regions have not the same metric means
2- but as a whole the most of them show the same means
3- Kurds are more mesocephalic than semitic Middel-Easterners and than persic Iranians, as a whole: they show typically a "european-like" trend , brachycephalic: 2 sorts: 'alpinoid' + 'dinaroid', at high level - among the dolichocephalic element, different subtypes of 'mediterranean', someones closer to the Yemen type, some others more 'western mediterranean, someones more on the so called 'indo-afghan' type -
4- in details, they show a little bit more (even if light enough yet) of depigmented nordic-like element, and on another side, a litlle bit of what seams a not well defined darker skinned element of Indian origin ('veddoid' influence upon 'indo-afghan'???)
5- it is principally this "indian" element that for me differentiate them from Armenians.
&: partially depigmented populations exist too among the Lurs / Luri (I lack details about the history of these last ones)
my conclusion: NO, Kurds are not identical to Iranians, and they are also different enough from Middel-Easterners, and close enough to Armenians
just my thoughts about external phenotypical features, that stay to be linked to genetic concealed structures (autosomals)
have a good day

 

[MOESAN]

the Jordanians types I saw on these photos (pictures) show also (as some Palestinians) differencies compared to true "arabic" tribes (as Yemen bedwins of ancient times): common elements but too foreign elements from North (2000 BC?) -
concerning Lebanon, I do'nt believe they are pure descendants of Phoenicians

 

[adamo]

The Europeans that overlap the most with levantines are definitely Italians and Greeks, Sicilians, Cretans an Cypriots being the "leaders" if you will lollll. Also many Albanians, Bulgarians and certain Spanish, Portuguese and Romanians. About 20% of Italians and Greeks are haplogroup J2, which originated in the Middle East. Although Sicilians have 25-28% with some studies showing ad high as 30%. Cretans and Cypriots have about ten percent higher with 37-40% J2 on both those islands. Wow, the mediterranean islands sure do have much Neolithic genetic impact from middle Eastern farming agriculturalists and/or later greek colonization impact. Bulgarians and rRomanians have about 15-20% J2 I believe or Romania may have slightly more. Spaniards and Portuguese also have J2 impact, but on a national level, at about half the frequencies found in Italy and Greece (10 or so percent) with certain "hotspot" areas of 15-20%, but in total Iberia has on national levels more like 10%.

 

[adamo]

Also, if you consider the haplogroup E impact In Middle East as indicative of Levantine people's, which to a lesser degree it is, then all the nations I said above plus Serbs, I forgot Macedonians.... There is 25-30% E in these regions, 25% E in Sicily, much less in crete, about 25% E in Cyprus, national level 11% mainland Italy, 25% Albania, 25% or so Bulgaria, 25-30% Greece, levels are higher in south Italy 20-25% but I would say more like 20, 20% certain regions of Spain/Portugal but 15% on national levels.....also haplogroup T is found in I would say 5-7% of Levantine populations, it's highest in Europe in Cyprus around 5%, south Italy 5%, Greece 4% etc.

 

[adamo]

I can not overstate how much higher Italians should be in terms of Levantine blood on this polls...Italians should be WAY up there with Greeks, even more so possibly and just behind Sicilians, Cypriots and MalteseMaltese

 

[Alan]

The Europeans that overlap the most with levantines are definitely Italians and Greeks, Sicilians, Cretans an Cypriots being the "leaders" if you will lollll. Also many Albanians, Bulgarians and certain Spanish, Portuguese and Romanians. About 20% of Italians and Greeks are haplogroup J2, which originated in the Middle East. Although Sicilians have 25-28% with some studies showing ad high as 30%. Cretans and Cypriots have about ten percent higher with 37-40% J2 on both those islands. Wow, the mediterranean islands sure do have much Neolithic genetic impact from middle Eastern farming agriculturalists and/or later greek colonization impact. Bulgarians and rRomanians have about 15-20% J2 I believe or Romania may have slightly more. Spaniards and Portuguese also have J2 impact, but on a national level, at about half the frequencies found in Italy and Greece (10 or so percent) with certain "hotspot" areas of 15-20%, but in total Iberia has on national levels more like 10%.

J1 as a whole is not connected to darker features. Dargins in the Caucasus are J1 and they are lighter than Lebanese. Only J1c3d in connection with Southwest Asian autosomal DNA could be.

 

[Yaan]

Europeans that share some overlap with them are Cypriots and Maltese, maybe some island greeks and Sicilians. Haplogorup E means nothing, in the Balkan and Europe is the European E-V13 in the Levant is mostly E-V22 and E-M123. Also some people here have no knowledge at all what have y DNA to do with look nothing. R1b is from Anadola!End of story. Such threats are a big joke
Also overlap is because South Europe is mostly the old civilizations, while Levant is old civilization mixed with Arabs, South Slavs are old civilizations mixed with Slavs etc.etc.
Also stop putting us Bulgarians everywhere in these stupid threats. Most of u have not seen Bulgarian person in their life. Americans think if u are not North European u r not European,this is a joke. Iberians always try to insult Balkan people in order to feel more secure about themselves and West Europeans do not know nothing about Bulgaria or think that the Gypsies and Turks with Bulgarian passports are Bulgarians.:embarassed:

 

[Yaan]

If we base our opinion of a nation on some minorities then all these " Dutch" people I see called Mustafa are pretty North African looking to me

 

[American Idiot]

Lebanese

still a bit misleading as about 1/4 of all the people of Lebanon look lighter than this and have lighter eyes too. and I am speaking from actual experience, not just photos I see on the web.

 

[MtDNA]

It depends on how they overlap. Levantinces are made up of many previous races which merged and blended.
If you are talking about semitic influence, from the way of the Jews, there is Germany, Austria, Serbia, Poland, etc.
If you are talking about the "MtDNA-H" holder influence, there is England, France, Spain, and the royalty of other countries.
If you are talking about shared Turkish influence, there is Russia, Poland, Croatia, Bosnia, and Hungary.
If you are talking about Meditaranian influence, there is Greece, Sardinia, Italy, and Malta.