Politics French elections

This has become a much "bigger" issue than I anticipated, but it was nothing like that. I was 17 years old and walked into the post office to get stamps for my letters. I didn't know if the man spoke English, but I thought it was more likely he spoke Italian since it's one of the official languages there so I spoke to him, politely, in that. He launched into what seemed like a five minute screaming tirade.

I was later told that he was ranting that if I was going to live there I'd better learn to speak German. There was also a general tirade about too many Italian immigrants, and something of a sexual nature about which my relatives refused to be explicit. The worst thing was that not one person spoke up to intervene, not even the women. There are individual crazy people everywhere, but if they didn't agree, why stay silent?

This was apparently not an unusual occurrence, and not the worst of the mistreatment: most people wouldn't rent apartments to them, people would routinely get beaten up, etc. The contrast to my experience in the U. S. couldn't have been more extreme. I understand it's better now, but I'm not the forgive and forget type.

There is "ethnic" humor in the U.S., or at least there used to be; in these days of "safe spaces" and "triggers" it's disappearing. I never liked it; it's just a marginally more acceptable way of insulting people. It's pretty easy to put a stop to it by just turning the tables. People like to dish it out, but they don't like to take it.

American reactions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6x8OgIhprs
 
This has become a much "bigger" issue than I anticipated, but it was nothing like that. I was 17 years old and walked into the post office to get stamps for my letters. I didn't know if the man spoke English, but I thought it was more likely he spoke Italian since it's one of the official languages there so I spoke to him, politely, in that. He launched into what seemed like a five minute screaming tirade.

I was later told that he was ranting that if I was going to live there I'd better learn to speak German. There was also a general tirade about too many Italian immigrants, and something of a sexual nature about which my relatives refused to be explicit. The worst thing was that not one person spoke up to intervene, not even the women. There are individual crazy people everywhere, but if they didn't agree, why stay silent?

Had it happened to me, I would have explained to that idiot that I wasn't an immigrant but a tourist and that there is no reason I should have been able to speak the local German dialect. Did you tell him you were American to see his reaction?

I am not surprised that bystanders didn't react though. It really depends on the culture, but in the more reserved and introverted Germanic cultures people don't usually like to meddle in other people's business. And the Swiss are known to be particularly reserved. Even as I, as a French speaker, wouldn't have said anything as a bystander as I'd think it was none of my business. But if someone had talked like that to me you can be sure that I would have talked back the guy into such a shame that he would have had to hide under his desk.

This was apparently not an unusual occurrence, and not the worst of the mistreatment: most people wouldn't rent apartments to them, people would routinely get beaten up, etc. The contrast to my experience in the U. S. couldn't have been more extreme. I understand it's better now, but I'm not the forgive and forget type.

Italian immigrants getting beaten up in Switzerland? I am very surprised to hear this. On the other hand, it's not that surprising that it's hard to find a place to rent in a country where even multi-millionaire expats (or tax refugees, if you prefer) are not allowed to purchase more than one property in the country, and only if it is their main residence. There is no Western country that is more restrictive than Switzerland about what foreigners can do. But Japan is similar in that respect. Foreigners can buy as many properties as they want, but it's almost impossible to rent a place for a foreigner, no matter how wealthy, if you do not have good recommendations from Japanese citizens as well as a Japanese guarantor to vouch for you. It may actually be easier to just buy a place to avoid all the trouble. For anybody who cannot find a guarantor (not something a Japanese friend or colleague will accept lightly), the Japanese have special "gaijin houses/apartments" that dedicated companies with English-speaking staff rent to foreigners at a highly inflated price. It's a form of organised discrimination at the national scale against foreigners, whatever their origin or social level. There is just no equivalent in the West. Yet, to most Westerners Japanese people appear friendly, polite, respectful, kind and tolerant. The Japanese have a concept called honne vs tatemae, which is the dichotomy between one's true feelings (only shared with close family members) and the public façade one adopts in social situations. Foreigners only see the latter. At least German speakers speak their mind and don't hide behind a façade.
 
Generally, I agree, Bicicleur. However, we have millions of illegal immigrants who don't speak English, have no skills, and had no health screening or criminal background checks. Some of them are members of criminal gangs before they even arrive here. Yet, half the country won't even agree to turning over convicted felons for deportation. As I explained during the election, mass deportations are out of the question in the U. S. It's not Europe.

Btw, there's no requirement that immigrants speak English. My parents didn't speak a word of it when they arrived. Asylum seekers aren't screened for much of anything.

I'm sorry, but assimilation is a two way street. If you're treated with respect, acceptance, and even friendliness from day one it's much easier to let go of the past.

This is a list of notable Turkish Americans. Now, many of the academics came here for research purposes, but most are just descendants of immigrants. I didn't even know some of them had a Turkish background until I read it here yesterday.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Turkish_Americans

I was particularly surprised by the singers Neil Sedaka and Edie Gorme. I assumed he was Jewish of some sort and she was Italian.

109.jpg


I thought her husband and singing partner was Italian. I looked it up and he was Jewish. So I was wrong twice. :)
See, no one cares.

Steve_lawrence_eydie_gorme.JPG


@ Maciamo, France is indeed a completely different case. As for Switzerland, after my experience near Zurich as a teen-ager visiting some cousins I've never been back and I'll never set foot there again. It's the only time in my life I've ever been disrespected because of my ethnicity, and all because I addressed the postmaster in Italian. Stupid me, I thought I was showing respect by using one of the three official languages. From what I've heard Germany is as bad or worse. I'll never go there either, nor do I buy products from either country.

I've been thinking about this further, and I agree that Americans are more open.
However I still think the main succes to immigration is a proper selection of the immigrants.
The US applied the same criteria for all immigrants, except for the black slaves they imported.
And now, more than 150 years after the abolishment of slavery there still exist black communities who feel discriminated and not part of mainstream American white society.
 
This has become a much "bigger" issue than I anticipated, but it was nothing like that. I was 17 years old and walked into the post office to get stamps for my letters. I didn't know if the man spoke English, but I thought it was more likely he spoke Italian since it's one of the official languages there so I spoke to him, politely, in that. He launched into what seemed like a five minute screaming tirade.

I was later told that he was ranting that if I was going to live there I'd better learn to speak German. There was also a general tirade about too many Italian immigrants, and something of a sexual nature about which my relatives refused to be explicit. The worst thing was that not one person spoke up to intervene, not even the women. There are individual crazy people everywhere, but if they didn't agree, why stay silent?

This was apparently not an unusual occurrence, and not the worst of the mistreatment: most people wouldn't rent apartments to them, people would routinely get beaten up, etc. The contrast to my experience in the U. S. couldn't have been more extreme. I understand it's better now, but I'm not the forgive and forget type.

There is "ethnic" humor in the U.S., or at least there used to be; in these days of "safe spaces" and "triggers" it's disappearing. I never liked it; it's just a marginally more acceptable way of insulting people. It's pretty easy to put a stop to it by just turning the tables. People like to dish it out, but they don't like to take it.

American reactions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6x8OgIhprs

my experience was not exactly the same, but we were in a queue of only Italians, and none of them spoke and they all avoided eye contact with us
and we even didn't intend to settle in Italy, we were just tourists trying to spend our money

IMO opinion what happened is very rare, especialy in a place that receives a lot of tourist visitors, but apearantly it can happen anywhere
these are just stupid people
 
I'm sorry, but any character trait which prohibits a person from intervening when another person is being verbally abused, and especially a young person, is a character trait which should be overcome. It's a matter of morality and simple human compassion for me; they were in short supply that day. Nor do I think his behavior would have been justified if I had been an immigrant. The video I posted shows, lmo, how people should behave in such circumstances.

As for responding, had I understood German, or thought he spoke anything but German perhaps I would have, but maybe not; I was pretty shy and timid at 16-17. I did ask in English something like what did I do, whereupon his whole demeanor changed. The only reason I know exactly what he said is because the "news" made the rounds pretty quickly and someone came to tell my cousins. There are no secrets in small villages.

Why my relatives stayed all these years is a mystery to me: I used to tell them it must be like having Stockholm Syndrome. They didn't think it was funny. :)

I don't want to give the impression that I think all Swiss people are like this: my cousin's daughter married a Swiss German and he seems like a nice enough person.

As to the treatment of Italian immigrants:
"At first the Swiss government encouraged the arrival of guest workers, assigning them different types of work permits, some forbidding job switching, ranging from the "frontaliere" permit given to Italians living near the Swiss border to the "C" permit granting the same status of a Swiss citizen minus the political rights.[4]

"In 1970 there were a million immigrants in Switzerland, 54% of whom were Italians.[4] Rising friction with the indigenous majority even led to the creation of an "anti-Italians party" in 1963.[5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_immigration_to_Switzerland

"Schwarzenbach was a member of the Swiss National Council representing the National Action in the legislature between 1967 and 1971. Schwarzenbach's Republican Movement originated as a split of National Action in 1971, and it lasted until its dissolution in 1989.Schwarzenbach is chiefly known for his initiative on Überfremdung ("excess of foreigners") that was put to the vote in June of 1970. The referendum had a record turnout (75%), with 45% of the votes supporting Schwarzenbach's proposal. The proposal, if accepted, would have meant that the Swiss government had to limit foreign workers to Switzerland to 10%, which then would mean the deportation of up to 300,000 foreigners over 4 years. Although not enacted, the referendum did cause the number of available work-permits to be lowered.[3] Xenophobia in Switzerland at the time was chiefly directed against Italian migrant workers, whose number had increased from 300,000 to over 1 million during the economic surge after World War II between 1950 and 1970.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Schwarzenbach

Sound familiar? I assure you my relatives were both literate and skilled.
 
no, it doesn't sound familiar to me, except yes, these kind of people do exist
and yes, it makes one wonder why your relatives went and stayed there
I guess there were not to many options at that time
but no, I didn't know about the situation in Switzerland between 1950 and 1970
it makes me think about present legislation for foreign workers in Saudi-Arabia, where I assure you the situation is even far worse today - which is not meant as an excuse
but I can't imagine this kind of legislation ever existed in post-war Germany
of course, Germany was not such an interesting place to live in the first years after war

and yes, I told you my experience was not to be compared with yours, it just demonstrates you can meet this kind of people anywhere
and I admit, in that atmosphere you describe at that time in Switzerland you had a far bigger chance to meet them

PS : I just checked, the Republican Movement never got more than 4.3 % of the vote.
That is very little. But maybe they had a few more sympathisers who still voted for another party.
 
no, it doesn't sound familiar to me, except yes, these kind of people do exist
and yes, it makes one wonder why your relatives went and stayed there
I guess there were not to many options at that time
but no, I didn't know about the situation in Switzerland between 1950 and 1970
it makes me think about present legislation for foreign workers in Saudi-Arabia, where I assure you the situation is even far worse today - which is not meant as an excuse
but I can't imagine this kind of legislation ever existed in post-war Germany
of course, Germany was not such an interesting place to live in the first years after war

and yes, I told you my experience was not to be compared with yours, it just demonstrates you can meet this kind of people anywhere
and I admit, in that atmosphere you describe at that time in Switzerland you had a far bigger chance to meet them

PS : I just checked, the Republican Movement never got more than 4.3 % of the vote.
That is very little. But maybe they had a few more sympathisers who still voted for another party.

Bicicleur, I'm not quite that old! :) I wasn't there until after 1971, but I guess it was still "in the air". The party wasn't dissolved until 1989, and 45% of Swiss people voted to deport hundreds of thousands of legal, card-carrying immigrants, men, women, and children, and fellow Europeans at that.

I wish the country and its citizens no ill, but there are a lot of other places to spend my money.
 
I don't want to give the impression that I think all Swiss people are like this: my cousin's daughter married a Swiss German and he seems like a nice enough person.

There are good and bad people in every country.

As to the treatment of Italian immigrants:
"At first the Swiss government encouraged the arrival of guest workers, assigning them different types of work permits, some forbidding job switching, ranging from the "frontaliere" permit given to Italians living near the Swiss border to the "C" permit granting the same status of a Swiss citizen minus the political rights.[4]

"In 1970 there were a million immigrants in Switzerland, 54% of whom were Italians.[4] Rising friction with the indigenous majority even led to the creation of an "anti-Italians party" in 1963.[5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_immigration_to_Switzerland

"Schwarzenbach was a member of the Swiss National Council representing the National Action in the legislature between 1967 and 1971. Schwarzenbach's Republican Movement originated as a split of National Action in 1971, and it lasted until its dissolution in 1989.Schwarzenbach is chiefly known for his initiative on Überfremdung ("excess of foreigners") that was put to the vote in June of 1970. The referendum had a record turnout (75%), with 45% of the votes supporting Schwarzenbach's proposal. The proposal, if accepted, would have meant that the Swiss government had to limit foreign workers to Switzerland to 10%, which then would mean the deportation of up to 300,000 foreigners over 4 years. Although not enacted, the referendum did cause the number of available work-permits to be lowered.[3] Xenophobia in Switzerland at the time was chiefly directed against Italian migrant workers, whose number had increased from 300,000 to over 1 million during the economic surge after World War II between 1950 and 1970.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Schwarzenbach

Sound familiar? I assure you my relatives were both literate and skilled.

I admit that I had never heard of this mass Italian migration to Switzerland.
 
Bicicleur, I'm not quite that old! :) I wasn't there until after 1971, but I guess it was still "in the air". The party wasn't dissolved until 1989, and 45% of Swiss people voted to deport hundreds of thousands of legal, card-carrying immigrants, men, women, and children, and fellow Europeans at that.

I wish the country and its citizens no ill, but there are a lot of other places to spend my money.

Sorry, Angela, I didn't do any maths ;)
 
Angela, what kind of job oportunities where there in Switzerland, at the time?

In the beginning, right after the war, when La Spezia and Aulla were still leveled, they did whatever would keep them alive, I think: farm work, construction work, small businesses, hotels and restaurants. By the time I visited my cousin was doing bookkeeping for a small firm. Her half-Swiss son is now an executive at a big Swiss bank, and stationed in Hong Kong. He visits me when he's in New York on business. The world does change for the better sometimes.

Southern Italians had it harder from what I was told. I think my family had a somewhat easier time also because one branch of my mother's family came from the Ticino. They could get different kinds of papers or something.

Anyway, lots of Italians did leave; there's only about 300,000 or so left. This small branch of my mother's family stayed.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/born-in-switzerland--but-still-far-from-citizens/3349834
 
I'm sorry, but any character trait which prohibits a person from intervening when another person is being verbally abused, and especially a young person, is a character trait which should be overcome. It's a matter of morality and simple human compassion for me; they were in short supply that day. Nor do I think his behavior would have been justified if I had been an immigrant. The video I posted shows, lmo, how people should behave in such circumstances.

As for responding, had I understood German, or thought he spoke anything but German perhaps I would have, but maybe not; I was pretty shy and timid at 16-17. I did ask in English something like what did I do, whereupon his whole demeanor changed. The only reason I know exactly what he said is because the "news" made the rounds pretty quickly and someone came to tell my cousins. There are no secrets in small villages.

Why my relatives stayed all these years is a mystery to me: I used to tell them it must be like having Stockholm Syndrome. They didn't think it was funny. :)

I don't want to give the impression that I think all Swiss people are like this: my cousin's daughter married a Swiss German and he seems like a nice enough person.

As to the treatment of Italian immigrants:
"At first the Swiss government encouraged the arrival of guest workers, assigning them different types of work permits, some forbidding job switching, ranging from the "frontaliere" permit given to Italians living near the Swiss border to the "C" permit granting the same status of a Swiss citizen minus the political rights.[4]

"In 1970 there were a million immigrants in Switzerland, 54% of whom were Italians.[4] Rising friction with the indigenous majority even led to the creation of an "anti-Italians party" in 1963.[5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_immigration_to_Switzerland

"Schwarzenbach was a member of the Swiss National Council representing the National Action in the legislature between 1967 and 1971. Schwarzenbach's Republican Movement originated as a split of National Action in 1971, and it lasted until its dissolution in 1989.Schwarzenbach is chiefly known for his initiative on Überfremdung ("excess of foreigners") that was put to the vote in June of 1970. The referendum had a record turnout (75%), with 45% of the votes supporting Schwarzenbach's proposal. The proposal, if accepted, would have meant that the Swiss government had to limit foreign workers to Switzerland to 10%, which then would mean the deportation of up to 300,000 foreigners over 4 years. Although not enacted, the referendum did cause the number of available work-permits to be lowered.[3] Xenophobia in Switzerland at the time was chiefly directed against Italian migrant workers, whose number had increased from 300,000 to over 1 million during the economic surge after World War II between 1950 and 1970.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Schwarzenbach

Sound familiar? I assure you my relatives were both literate and skilled.

If I ever come across a 300lb weight lifter of "NFL material" verbally abusing anyone in particular, I'll just continue on, minding my own, for the sake of my own safety. I'm a nerdy guy who loves to solve puzzles, enjoys mathematics, and I weigh <150lbs (granted, I'm rather strong for my size...). I don't intervene when I witness verbal abuse in general (that is , verbal abuse from anyone including crippled geriatrics) because I don't want to "start". Physical abuse is a different story....but still...if I go toe to toe with someone who's strength is exceptional (and who out benches Hercules), I'll end up dead...and my death will not prevent the assailant from killing his victim.
 
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Muslims may love France but I really don't think they love the French. French lifestyle and culture this the antithesis of how a good Muslim should live. They are sexually liberated, irreligious, drink wine and eat pork sausages. That's why the tensions run so deeply. The hate and intolerance is mutual. The French orange just afraid of Muslim terrorist. They have experienced Muslim youths burning thousands of cars, verbally or physically assaulting them in the street, and threatening to destroy their liberal values by imposing Sharia law in the country. There is no love either way between the two parties.

Le Pen's mistake was to take an anti-EU stance. If she had been more mainstream for the economy, she could have been elected president. What French people want is someone who will improve the economy and get rid of the Muslims. Le Pen is just not credible for the economy. That's her main weakness.

I think that the problem with Le Pen is not just her anti-EU stance. The problem is that she and her party are fascists.
 
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In the beginning, right after the war, when La Spezia and Aulla were still leveled, they did whatever would keep them alive, I think: farm work, construction work, small businesses, hotels and restaurants. By the time I visited my cousin was doing bookkeeping for a small firm. Her half-Swiss son is now an executive at a big Swiss bank, and stationed in Hong Kong. He visits me when he's in New York on business. The world does change for the better sometimes.

Southern Italians had it harder from what I was told. I think my family had a somewhat easier time also because one branch of my mother's family came from the Ticino. They could get different kinds of papers or something.

Anyway, lots of Italians did leave; there's only about 300,000 or so left. This small branch of my mother's family stayed.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/born-in-switzerland--but-still-far-from-citizens/3349834

So, they went to Switzerland because of proximity and because it was the wealthiest place in post-war Europe.
And you are part of a family that left northern Italy after WW II.
America was the best choice, Angela, no doubt about that.
 
This has become a much "bigger" issue than I anticipated, but it was nothing like that. I was 17 years old and walked into the post office to get stamps for my letters. I didn't know if the man spoke English, but I thought it was more likely he spoke Italian since it's one of the official languages there so I spoke to him, politely, in that. He launched into what seemed like a five minute screaming tirade.

I was later told that he was ranting that if I was going to live there I'd better learn to speak German. There was also a general tirade about too many Italian immigrants, and something of a sexual nature about which my relatives refused to be explicit. The worst thing was that not one person spoke up to intervene, not even the women. There are individual crazy people everywhere, but if they didn't agree, why stay silent?

This was apparently not an unusual occurrence, and not the worst of the mistreatment: most people wouldn't rent apartments to them, people would routinely get beaten up, etc. The contrast to my experience in the U. S. couldn't have been more extreme. I understand it's better now, but I'm not the forgive and forget type.

There is "ethnic" humor in the U.S., or at least there used to be; in these days of "safe spaces" and "triggers" it's disappearing. I never liked it; it's just a marginally more acceptable way of insulting people. It's pretty easy to put a stop to it by just turning the tables. People like to dish it out, but they don't like to take it.

American reactions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6x8OgIhprs

I think all ethnic minorities have their own fair share of terrible experiences. I was once on a bus, there was an Australian just attacking directly at a group of Chinese students on the bus, his style of racism is like the woman you see below shown in this youtube video. I was sitting on the other side of the bus, I was looking down at my phone at that time because I am always checking for messages on the way back home on the bus. All of a sudden I heard what he was doing, I should have recorded the incident with my i-phone, but I did nothing. I was frozen in some way. The man was very dirty looking. He looked like somebody without a job. When he had enough of it, he sat down. Then he exited on the next stop. When he left, the strap on his bag actually hit my lower leg.

I guess the reason I did not intervene was that I was protecting myself. He is after all a man, and me a tiny woman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qf14rpwG9-Y
 
Germany and Switzerland aren't France. AFAIK, France is one of the most welcoming countries for foreigners in Europe. There may be tensions with Muslims now, but otherwise a huge proportion of famous French people are of foreign origin. I listed a few here. There are especially lots of French people of Italian, Spanish, Polish, Ashkenazi Jewish, and Armenian descent. The French government has passed a series of laws that makes it illegal to make statistics based on ethnicity or religion to prevent discrimination. That is in the spirit of the values of égalité and fraternité of the French Revolution, but also because the French are so ethnically mixed themselves (Gascons, Bretons, Alsatians, Provençals, etc.).

Yeah, their slogan, Liberté, égalité, fraternité is the reason why France attracted so many immigrants. For example, Korean I mentioned in my other post. It is because of this reason most of their immigrants are people who have not got enough money to go to The States or Australia to study. If you can get in French university, you need a minimum of B2 Standard, you only pay like 400 euros per year just like local students.

Having said that, it is not true for the Korean I spoke about. This is because she studied in private Universities in Paris. Those were very expensive and the cost of living in Paris was expensive and still is!

In Australia if you are an international student For example, if you are enrolled in a Bachelor of Commerce and taking the equivalent of 48 credit points each year (1 EFTSL) then you will pay $38,500 Aud for the first year (2017), and this fee is likely to increase each year.

For Australians and Kiwis and Australian PR holders tuition fees will be subsidised by the Australian Government. You will pay the remainder – called a 'student contribution amount' and set by the University for your particular study.

Germany and Japan were two countries that were so preoccupied with racial purity and superiority that it eventually led to WWII. Japan remains to this day a country where it is very difficult to emigrate, especially if one isn't East Asian. Foreigners make up only 1.5% of the Japanese population, and 95% of them are East Asians or 2nd/3rd generation Japanese from South America. Westerners, South Asians, Middle Easterners and Africans only represent 0.1% of the population. Although Japan like to describe itself as a hospitable country for tourists, Westerners who live in Japan are frequently harassed by the police for no reason. I should know, it happened to me. I was asked for my ID card and bicycle registration 4 times in a single month at one point, and I was clearly only targeted because I didn't look East Asian. The police only asked me, the only gaijin around, in the crowded streets of Tokyo.

Nobody ever asked to see my ID card, but they were obsessed with my origins. They like to make assumptions based on ignorance, and a lot of generalising.

I would then make fun of them in French. Then they would apologised.

With that in mind, I don't think even Muslims can complain about their treatment in Germany, a country that was more intolerant of foreigners than Japan until 1945. Germany has made tremendous progress toward integrating foreigners. They even changed the nationality law from jus sanguinis to jus soli, mostly to give the right to second and third generation Turkish immigrants to claim German citizenship. In a culture that has long defined itself by its ancestry, that's quite a big step. In contrast, Japanese people have changed very little in their conception of who should be recognised as Japanese since 1945. Most still consider that Japanese born abroad aren't real Japanese, even if they were born of two Japanese parents and are fluent in Japanese.

Chinese do that too.

Now, there is something I notice about the Indians. They love to say something we are ALL Asians. It is like they are trying to say we are the same or something. I personally don’t think Chinese are the same as Indians. They practice child marriages, we don’t. They have caste system, we don’t. They eat with their hands, we eat with our chopsticks, we got slanted eyes, they have round big eyes and the list goes on...

This is especially ridiculous when they are talking to somebody like me who rarely hang around with Asians, with the exception of a few friends and my family. Moreover, the place I work I am the only Asian. I had to fit in, so if they want to talk to me, they don’t need to pull that stunt. I can work with all people Asian or not.:rolleyes:

I remember my high school Japanese teacher's comment on the Indians, “I went to London once” she said in Japanese, then, she had that look on her face, “a LOT of Indians.” She said in Japanese.

Speaking of Indians, I went to Japan once with my ex- boyfriend (French). He has a problem with the Indians. He thinks they are disgusting. So, every time we saw one, he had to publicly humiliate them. I had to tell him to stop. It was just not what an educated person would do in public. Luckily, nobody understood what he said. I was so embarrassed. The irony of this is that, he actually got a Master 2 degree.

The British colonization on the Indian people must have made them this way. It is like the Filipinos, if you were white you go there, they would think you are Americanos.

Having said that, there were two Indians I met in my bank in Australia that gave me the best impressions. They were well-mannered, neat and tidy.

As for Switzerland, it has been one of the most secluded countries in European history, one where other countries have traditionally been kept at arm's length and seen with suspicion. Even today a majority of Swiss are wary of entering the European Union, despite being surrounded by it. Swiss nationality laws are some of the strictest in the world. It's not surprising that attitude to outsiders is less relaxed than in the US or France.

In France, you need to be married to a French man after 5 years to be eligible to apply for French citizen. You need to pass several French tests. There will be interviews at the prefecture. You need to be involved in the French community, like get a job for example to be considered as you have successfully integrated into the French community.

In Switzerland it is 10 years I think. I am not sure about the tests.
 
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Generally, I agree, Bicicleur. However, we have millions of illegal immigrants who don't speak English, have no skills, and had no health screening or criminal background checks. Some of them are members of criminal gangs before they even arrive here. Yet, half the country won't even agree to turning over convicted felons for deportation. As I explained during the election, mass deportations are out of the question in the U. S. It's not Europe.

Btw, there's no requirement that immigrants speak English. My parents didn't speak a word of it when they arrived. Asylum seekers aren't screened for much of anything.

I'm sorry, but assimilation is a two way street. If you're treated with respect, acceptance, and even friendliness from day one it's much easier to let go of the past.

This is a list of notable Turkish Americans. Now, many of the academics came here for research purposes, but most are just descendants of immigrants. I didn't even know some of them had a Turkish background until I read it here yesterday.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Turkish_Americans

I was particularly surprised by the singers Neil Sedaka and Edie Gorme. I assumed he was Jewish of some sort and she was Italian.

109.jpg


I thought her husband and singing partner was Italian. I looked it up and he was Jewish. So I was wrong twice. :)
See, no one cares.

Steve_lawrence_eydie_gorme.JPG


@ Maciamo, France is indeed a completely different case. As for Switzerland, after my experience near Zurich as a teen-ager visiting some cousins I've never been back and I'll never set foot there again. It's the only time in my life I've ever been disrespected because of my ethnicity, and all because I addressed the postmaster in Italian. Stupid me, I thought I was showing respect by using one of the three official languages. From what I've heard Germany is as bad or worse. I'll never go there either, nor do I buy products from either country.


Neil Sedaka is of Jewish origin.

His father was a Sephardi Jew from Turkey while his mother was Ashkenazi Jewish from Poland and Russia.

Somebody mentioned Isabelle Adjani.
She has a Kabyle father and a Bavarian mother.
 
the US is still a young nation with vast territories and resources, founded by people with an open mind
people in the US are open minded and mobile
it is still the land of oportunity for every one

Europe has the burden of a long and complicated history
most people are not mobile and many are jealous of succesful people
I think you will recognise this with some of your relatives in Italy too

immigration policy is completely different
the US choses its immigrants
they must be mulitlingual or English speakers
they must have the proper skills to make it in America
when they come to America they know that they will have to rely on themselves and their own skills
they also know that if they make it, they will be respected

political correctness has manipulated some false feeling of guilt upon the European administrators
they allow immigration for the wrong reasons
they think that everybody is entitled to the same rights and material comfort as the Europeans
they attract the wrong people, often people that even can't make it in their own native country
many of them are illiterate, more of them speak only their native language and are not used to meet strangers

yesterday it was in the news : many (?) Syrians, even some that are granted asylum in Europe go back to Syria
again they have to rely on human trafickers, because Turkey don't allow them to cross Turkey to get back into Syria
they take the plane to Greece and from there they are smuggled into Turkey by human traffickers
these people interviewed realise that because of the language they can't get a job and they find it hard to learn the language of their host country
they are dissapointed because things are not as they were promised by the human trafickers who brought them into Europe and now they are homesick
I ask you, if they are unable to assimilate and if it is safe enough for them to return home, why were some of them granted asylum in the first place?


Errrr....not quite. My American relatives are from Taiwan. Their English is quite poor. They live in the Taiwanese/Chinese suburbs in CA. The Chinese communities in California are so big, they do not need to speak English at all to survive.

However, unlike the immigration to Europe, you got to have money to migrate to the US. This part is indeed very different.

In the US, they have Taiwanese Town, China Town, Japanese Town, Korean Town, Vietnamese Town and so on. They are segregated in CA. This is very different from Australia, yeah we got China town, but in there you can find Korean supermarkets, Japanese supermarkets etc. We live amongst white people and others, it is not like the US.

My mum does not speak English very well. In New South Wales, there are even jobs where they hire Mandarin/Cantonese speakers to service elderly Chinese people who can't speak English very well.
 
Bicicleur, I'm not quite that old! :) I wasn't there until after 1971, but I guess it was still "in the air". The party wasn't dissolved until 1989, and 45% of Swiss people voted to deport hundreds of thousands of legal, card-carrying immigrants, men, women, and children, and fellow Europeans at that.

I wish the country and its citizens no ill, but there are a lot of other places to spend my money.

:unsure: Overly ordered Swiss?

Up until know I get in the Mediterranean world mostly a surprised response with my 6 feet 4 and large German head in Greece especially by the older people (mostly only big eyes....).

Just a few weeks ago in a little village in the Maroc Rif mountains I heard every time the surprised whisper (I was with my family, my sons are quite large too) "Alemanni, Alemanni!", probably the local name of all Germans above the Alps. But the people stayed always very friendly and talkative.


And in Rome, at first when I was about the twenty years old, the woman (on their sharp styled vespa's) kind of tempted me with pretty laughs and "ciao bello", "ciao bello", it flattered me but at the same time, as a reserved, shy boy from NW Europe :ashamed2: I wasn't used to that kind of playful behavior, with southern flair :LOL: Must have been funny for them ....:grin: But in the bus to the Vatican a man was very touchy in a sticky way...I must admit that after the surprise my primair reaction was to furiously tell him in my lower german dialect to immediately stop that kind of behavior...(worked well).

But this are are all kind of "droll" experiences nothing compared what you family sadly enough experienced....
 
.....
However I still think the main succes to immigration is a proper selection of the immigrants.
The US applied the same criteria for all immigrants, except for the black slaves they imported.
.....
The same criteria was NOT applied to US immigrants. Setting aside immigrants before the US was formed, there were very different policies in place at various times in its history. After WW1, there was a severe limitation on southern and eastern European immigrants, for example. Your larger point may be that the US controls its LEGAL immigration. It has not made a serious effort to control its illegal immigration. Too many influential parties benefit from the illegals. A brief story. My last name is unusual and for the uninformed has been confused as being Hispanic (meaning New World Spanish speaker). While in a Middle Atlantic state, I was asked to interview for a position that had a Guatemalan clientele. The issue was a large number of illegal Guatemalans serving as domestic labor for wealthy citizens. The firm wanted a Hispanic to be the face of the firm with these people. A few months later President Clinton had to turn away 2 nominees for the Supreme Court because they had Hispanic illegals working for them. (My lack of Hispanic background was revealed by more senior staff and I did not get the job.)
The shape of immigrants in the US has been affected by the illegals. I have very limited experience with them, but there are large numbers. The US is a 'soupy stew' - soupy meaning inter-marriage, and stew, no inter-marriage - among divergent cultures. Illegals largely want to fit in to the US, as do most legals. Economics is the key.
 

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