G2a and E-V13 in Neolithic Spain (5000 BCE)

Greeks used the name to designate the inhabitants living near the river Iberus (maybe related to basque "ibar/ibai") In other words, it is the river that gives name to the whole peninsula.

Iberians lived on way much wider area than river Ebro basin. And it might be vice versa that the river got the name from a tribal designation..
 
Iberians lived on way much wider area than river Ebro basin. And it might be vice versa that the river got the name from a tribal designation..

Yes, they lived in a wider area, but the first that contacted with greeks were those living in the Ebro basin and nearby costal zones. As I posted above, the hydronym has a possible match with basque "ibar/ibai", wich means river/fertile lowland. And makes a lot of sense.

Ethnical names usualy don't give fluvial names; in any case it would be the contrary. However, and judging by texts and epygraphy, iberians didn't called themselves iberians.
 
If you are right, then, it has nothing to do with the (Pre)Georgian "Ber" used for Wolf.

Nothing to do. If we want to associate a geographical term with an animal, this would be "Hispania", possibly from phoenician hi-spn-ya, more or less translated as "region of the rabbits coast". Roman numismatics seems to confirm this theory, by using in some coins the adjective "cuniculosa" (plenty of rabbits) to refer Hispania.
 
Yes, they lived in a wider area, but the first that contacted with greeks were those living in the Ebro basin and nearby costal zones. As I posted above, the hydronym has a possible match with basque "ibar/ibai", wich means river/fertile lowland. And makes a lot of sense.

Ethnical names usualy don't give fluvial names; in any case it would be the contrary. However, and judging by texts and epygraphy, iberians didn't called themselves iberians.
Neither did Georgians call themselves Iberians as such:) Iberians of Hispania were not a monolithic ethnicity neither were Iberians of the Caucasus. One powerful tribe/cult followers could spread a name over a larger union.

Anyway, I do not claim that it's true, but considering the presence of old G2a in both Hispania and the Caucasus, similar names by classic authors to the populations of two regions makes my proposal at least a valid working hypothesis :)

P.S. I was just checking info about the Wolf cult on the territory of Catalonia, which I've heard in the Museum of Archaeology in Barcelona. Maybe Knovas would know more.
 
Yo are refering to something like this very ancient discoveries: http://www.mac.cat/eng/layout/set/print/Branches/Barcelona/Collections/Iberian-culture

The two "Pàteras" have a Wolf head (cap de llop) in the middle. It seems that was common in all the territory wich was Iberian dominated (refering to ancient culture), not only in Catalonia. You can check the text and the images in more detail.

But I see the two main objects come from Castellet de Banyoles-Tivissa-Ribera d'Ebre (Southern Catalonia).
 
Thank you, Knovas! Fascinating!
I also remember the guide explicitly mentioned the existence of the Wolf cult and wolf deity among Iberians of Catalonia and one habit which is 100% identical to the caucaisan counterpart, namely Iberian warriors would add as many arrows/lances to their fallen comrade's grave as many enemies he had slayed during his lifetime.
Unfortunately I was with a larger group, the guide was speaking in Catalan and with my Italian and Spanish I could understand only this much :) And later I did not have time to ask her about more...
 
I agree J2a might have an Indo European, Caucasian root and has not much to do with the Neolthic imo.

Something interesting I found.



Note that the Yaghnobis speak a Sogdian dialect, which is according to Heredotus a Scythian dialect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_peoples#Genetics
Yes especially this is very important paragraph:

"J2 is not only restricted to geographically eastern and western Iranic populations, but also found among north-western and south-western Iranic populations such as the Bakhtiaris and Mazanderani, as well as geographically north-western Iranic Ossetians. Despite its supposed origin in the fertile crescent, J2a is also found among Iranic populations in the east such as the Yagnobi which are of Soghdian origin as well as the Parsis of India

The relatively strong presence of J2a among Ossetians as well as Yagnobis proves distant from the supposed Mesopotamian origin region of J2, are carriers of this Haplogroup."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_peoples#Genetics
 
Yo are refering to something like this very ancient discoveries: http://www.mac.cat/eng/layout/set/print/Branches/Barcelona/Collections/Iberian-culture

The two "Pàteras" have a Wolf head (cap de llop) in the middle. It seems that was common in all the territory wich was Iberian dominated (refering to ancient culture), not only in Catalonia. You can check the text and the images in more detail.

But I see the two main objects come from Castellet de Banyoles-Tivissa-Ribera d'Ebre (Southern Catalonia).

This would not have anything to do with Strabo story of the Iberian wolf and Gallic horses ...would it?
 
I did not heard nothing about this Sile. If it refers to a very ancient period, I'd say "maybe" xD.
 
According to anthropology, the Capsian who populated North Africa since mesolithic are Proto Mediterranean people.
Obvioulsy E-M81 makes part of the Mediterranean admixture in Iberia and France hence the absence of North West African admixture.
What you say doesn't make any sense. Mediterranean is found all over Europe at non-trivial levels and it peaks in Sardinians.
 
The findings do not, in my opinion, contradict the Greek-and-Roman E1b1b1 spread theory. The pre-Greek E-v13 might have been superseded, the same as G2a , with the advancement of R1b and celebrated a substantial comeback with the development of Greek colonies.
 
lol the first guy is simply a dinaro-med heavy tanned because he is photographed in summer, maybe he isn't either sardinian considering that people behind you are not dressing sardinian costumes, probably he belongs to a non sardinian folk group invited in Sardinia.
dinaro-meds are mainly common in south italy, sicily and some part of balkans, surely he hasn't anything of north african.

See by yourself if they are Sardinians or not

http://www.flickr.com/groups/914720@N23/pool/page5/
 
waiting more data, here are ma thoughts:
(knowing that it's uncertain linking Y haplo's to autosomals:)
ZZ (not pure) presents some Combe-Capelle features (as some Sardinians) but I bet C-C is linked to Y-I2a1a - not to Y-E1b-M81 -
E-M81 could have put feet in Iberia at the Neolithic (Capsian?), and at that period the crossing around Gibraltar was maybe dangerous enough: more males than females? the Y-E-M81 not overwhealmy dominant nowadays (5% to 12% perhaps?) and only in Western Spain) didn't played aso big role for autosomals, even their females - and Kabyles as a whole are very far to be all on the ZZ model - this kind of shape could have been send in N-Maghreb by SOME OF the bearers of the 'mediterranean autosomals' (a package that could be broken out in the future?) whatever their Y HG's (possibly I2a1a) - the previous 'aquitan' phenotype is I think an reduced (body) evolution of an old mixture of Cro-Magnons types and Combe-Capelle types, and it's found yet in a region where we find some I2a1a... (Central Eastern Spain, Gascogne, Sardigna ...) - just for the fun
 
What quaquaraqua says must be considered. However, the problem is bigger than that: using 1 phenotypical example (even if ethnic Sardinian) to prove all Sardinians look the same way and, furthermore, linking them strongly with E-M81 as well as doing so with Iberians and French...you know, it becomes too much complicated and strange.
 
This is what I have discover so far Combining the DNA, the Bible and Roman and Greek Mythology

1) That the E Halopgroup is Hamitic or descendants of Ham (similar to? the usage of Jews for Semites using for it the Biblical Character Shem, or similar to the Biblical character Japheth which his descendants now are called Caucasians)

2) I Read a good book called the Faces of the Hamitic People by Khamit Raamah Kush which I found let some light to my Hamitic roots
3) Googled I found that the E-V13 gene pool are Original Roman-Trojan genes (Since Saturn Jupiter and Zeus are associated with Nimrod, a descendant of Cush via Ham, and histories of Nimrod seeking refuge on the 7 hills of Rome and from that point on the Original Romans called him Saturn, Originating the Feast of Saturnilia on December 25)

4) The E-V13 gene root Ancestor was Nimrod the Powerful Hunter Before the Lord also called as well the Orion, Zeus and Jupiter? and Saturn etc

5) Ham would be the E Halopgroup ==> Cush (Cronus)= E-M35 ==> Nimrod (Zeus)= E-V13 ==> Dardanus = Dardania ==> Tros = Troy (Trojans)==> Ilus =(Illum) Illyria (Albania)==> Latinus = Latin (the Roman form of the Greek Lateinos) Lateo "to lie hid" or the hidden one)==> Romulos = Founder of the Roman Empire ==> Me an E-V13

6) The Clue for my findings were the Ethiopians and the Yemeni E-M35 as they fit perfectly the Biblical account of Being the descendants of Cush

7)Famous Hamitics E-M35 include Albert Einstein, The wright Brothers, and even Hittler. However looks like throughout history there has been lots of converts of this Hamitic Branch to Jud
 
This is what I have discover so far Combining the DNA, the Bible and Roman and Greek Mythology

1) That the E Halopgroup is Hamitic or descendants of Ham (similar to? the usage of Jews for Semites using for it the Biblical Character Shem, or similar to the Biblical character Japheth which his descendants now are called Caucasians)

2) I Read a good book called the Faces of the Hamitic People by Khamit Raamah Kush which I found let some light to my Hamitic roots
3) Googled I found that the E-V13 gene pool are Original Roman-Trojan genes (Since Saturn Jupiter and Zeus are associated with Nimrod, a descendant of Cush via Ham, and histories of Nimrod seeking refuge on the 7 hills of Rome and from that point on the Original Romans called him Saturn, Originating the Feast of Saturnilia on December 25)

4) The E-V13 gene root Ancestor was Nimrod the Powerful Hunter Before the Lord also called as well the Orion, Zeus and Jupiter? and Saturn etc

5) Ham would be the E Halopgroup ==> Cush (Cronus)= E-M35 ==> Nimrod (Zeus)= E-V13 ==> Dardanus = Dardania ==> Tros = Troy (Trojans)==> Ilus =(Illum) Illyria (Albania)==> Latinus = Latin (the Roman form of the Greek Lateinos) Lateo "to lie hid" or the hidden one)==> Romulos = Founder of the Roman Empire ==> Me an E-V13

6) The Clue for my findings were the Ethiopians and the Yemeni E-M35 as they fit perfectly the Biblical account of Being the descendants of Cush

7)Famous Hamitics E-M35 include Albert Einstein, The wright Brothers, and even Hittler. However looks like throughout history there has been lots of converts of this Hamitic Branch to Jud

what about the Japhetic ...the non semitic "brother" who had these sons



Tubal dominated Iberia....I cannot see how his "uncle" Hamitic encrouched on japheth's sons lands
 
Very good point zanipolo, the Japhetics descendents settle as you mention above, I totally agree with it, however our Hamitic branch via Nimrod settle in Rome, Albania and Kosovo, Greece, Macedonia and Montegro, the exact places where the E-V13 is at it highests. Nimrod was called Saturn and worshiped by the early Romans, they celebrated his birthday with the feast was called Saturnilia which is December 25, to this day all Freemason worship him as the first Mason. you can google there is allot of info regarding Saturn and Nimrod or Nimrod and Jupiter, and the shoe fits perfectly as the DNA footprint of us his descendents.
 
Where do Amerindians and Australian Aborigines fit in the Biblical story combined with genetics?
 
most Amerindians belong to Halopgroup Q, if you check the DNA research sites you will see that Halopgroup P is both Parent of Q and R, so their common ancestor is Japheth.

as for us E-V13 it was easy as the Etiopians and Yemenis still live there so it was easy to retrace the Biblical accounts and Greek and Roman Mythologies plus DNA
 
because when it comes to Nimrod, it is say he went to rule as well Assyria, as you know Ashur was a Semite, and when you see that on the Balkans and Romans the E-V13 is coming together with the J2 you start to see a patern there, as well as I mentioned above Nimrod's Father is Cush as on the Biblical account Cush is as well the Father of the Etiopians and Yemeni among others.

Nimrod wa
Hamitic and Kushite
An E-V13
Mighty Hunter before the Lord(Orion)
First King of Earth
Builder of cities
The First to train dogs for hunting
The First to train the horse for riding (Centaurus)
Father of the Romans-Latins
Known as Zeus-Jupiter-Saturn
Born on December 25 that's why his children the Romans or Latins celebrated the feast of Saturnilia that day :-)]

Built
Babel (Babylon), Erech, Accad and Calneh, all in the land of Shinar was built by Nimrod, Then He built in the territory of Assyria Nineveh and Rehoboth-Ir and Calah and Resen Between Nineveh and Calah
 
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