G2a and E-V13 in Neolithic Spain (5000 BCE)

[Sennevini]

Why are you trying to fit genetic trees in the ones called in the Bible? You have to be careful with using ancient sources.

 

[oriental]

I read somewhere that Socrates had African features so he could have been Hg E. Aristotle was a Macedon as he was Alexander's tutor.

 

[Beast]

@oriental Haplgorups have nothing to do with the way you look. I know of an Albanian girl who did a genetic test and she got E-V13. She has blue eyes and light hair and you could easily confuse her for being a Swede or Norwegian.

 

[oriental]

@oriental Haplgorups have nothing to do with the way you look. I know of an Albanian girl who did a genetic test and she got E-V13. She has blue eyes and light hair and you could easily confuse her for being a Swede or Norwegian.

Of course, one's looks are determined by the culture. During the time of Socrates there was more segregation. By modern time after 2,000 years assuming 20-years as one generation, it would be 200 generations the Hg E group living in a European environment and with gene flow would look like modern European e.g. Wright Brothers, Albert Einstein, Lyndon Baines Johnson, Napolean Bonaparte and Adolphe Hitler who promoted the "Aryan" race not being Aryan himself.

 

[Beast]

Ber- is a Georgian/pre-Georgian word for wolf, not Greek, so the connection if it exists must be deeper.

This is very interesting. Seems like allot of Caucasian people call themselves Wolves. for example Chechens identify as wolves. In Chechen Wolf means Borz.. similar to the Georgian word Ber. They call themselves Borz.

 

[neonimrod]

I kind of agree, this way our Base Halopgroup E-M35 is the richest in diversity so far,
as You said some are white you can find them in Europe, North America and Latin America, Kosovars, Albanians...
others are Brown like the Egyptians, Moroccans, the Libyans Latin Americans, South Italians, Greeks, Macedonians, Kosovars, Alabanians...
while others are Blacks like the Ethiopians and Somalis to mentions some...

however as per the Oriental look that is because the Chinese have allot in common with Halopgroup E, although the Orientals or most of the Orientals are Halopgroup O, they are Descendents of Ham via Canaan son Sine.
As well the Japanese who are D, this ramification almost is non existent as it was done to differenciate them of E but they are the same as us with our same Ancestor Ham.
This is why you can see that most of the eyes of the E-V13 or E-M35s have the eagle eye or some extraforeskin above the eyes, just like the eagles, this is why in Albania we are called the sons of the Eagle.

 

[Kardu]

most Amerindians belong to Halopgroup Q, if you check the DNA research sites you will see that Halopgroup P is both Parent of Q and R, so their common ancestor is Japheth.

as for us E-V13 it was easy as the Etiopians and Yemenis still live there so it was easy to retrace the Biblical accounts and Greek and Roman Mythologies plus DNA

So 'Japheth' was haplogroup P? You didn't answer about the Australian aborigens

 

[Kardu]

Yes, it seems like the Wolf was one of the most ancient deities of the Caucasian peoples, having roots in prehistoric shamanic practices.

And there are interesting parallels with Scandinavian Úlfhéðnar and Berserks.

 

[Taranis]

neonimrod,

while I see that you have attempted to give quite a thought attempting to correlate biblical genealogy with genetics, you're operating wholly under a large set false assumptions. The first is the assumption that the biblical genealogy must be assumed to be correct, and it obviously cannot be assumed to be correct since it involves tracing all of humanity back to the survivors of the Deluge. A deluge in the biblical sense never happened (there's a good deal of evidence that the Black Sea flooding event that occured around 7500 years before present may have been the inspiration for the biblical myth), and asserting that it literally happened makes you move into the realm of creationists. At that note, it should be pointed out that biblical Deluge story is not the original, it was merely borrowed from the Gilgamesh Epic of Sumerians - thus also casting doubt on the claim of biblical authority.

Finally I'd like to point out another flaw: you're trying to include ethnic groups which the writers of the bible must have been clearly unaware. The "known world" of the ancient Jews basically included only the Near East, and they had no knowledge of western or northern Europe, let alone of Australia or the Americas.

I might want to point out that in early stages (well into the 19th century), linguists attempted a similar classification as you do know, trying to trace language families to Ham, Sem and Japeth - they obviously failed. One of these terms, the "Semitic" languages, are still used by linguistics today, but the other concepts obviously failed. Linguists realized that what they deemed "Hamitic" languages was actually not a natural group, and that the Semitic languages should be included, which is why we refer to the former "Hamito-Semitic" languages as "Afroasiatic" languages.

Finally, the ancient Jews were as unaware of genetics as they were of linguistics. So, in a nutshell, a cursory analysis of your idea shows that it is absolutely non-working.

 

[Maciamo]

@oriental Haplgorups have nothing to do with the way you look. I know of an Albanian girl who did a genetic test and she got E-V13. She has blue eyes and light hair and you could easily confuse her for being a Swede or Norwegian.

So you know a girl with a Y-chromosome ? Impressive. Except that we call them boys/men, not girls.

 

[MOESAN]

autosomals are only loosely linked to Y or mtDNA, only on a statistical point of view - phenotypes and autosomals are very more tightly linked one together - even in a statistical meaning, Y DNA can know a big enough drift by male elite desequilibrium (it is my personal problem with my first believings and my present confusion concerning Y-R1b in Western Europe, even if I have not made completely my switch off yet)- I think it is still interesting trying to discover some %s links between these different elements of cognition, but yes it is very useless speak about few individuals phenotypes when trying to find populations origins and admixtures: it is not saying phenotypes have no worth, but only at a big scale -
for this thread, I think it would be necessery to have the detailed SNP's of Y-G in Iberia because G is not so rare (in Portugal it is common enough) but it seams to me having more than one origin (Neolithic, Alani, and in North Iberia (Cantabrias, Asturias) a possible south-Germany or Switzerland origin, mixed with other HGs (a lot of possible hypothesis and dates, from BB to Late Bronze)

 

[neonimrod]

neonimrod,

while I see that you have attempted to give quite a thought attempting to correlate biblical genealogy with genetics, you're operating wholly under a large set false assumptions. The first is the assumption that the biblical genealogy must be assumed to be correct, and it obviously cannot be assumed to be correct since it involves tracing all of humanity back to the survivors of the Deluge. A deluge in the biblical sense never happened (there's a good deal of evidence that the Black Sea flooding event that occured around 7500 years before present may have been the inspiration for the biblical myth), and asserting that it literally happened makes you move into the realm of creationists. At that note, it should be pointed out that biblical Deluge story is not the original, it was merely borrowed from the Gilgamesh Epic of Sumerians - thus also casting doubt on the claim of biblical authority.

Finally I'd like to point out another flaw: you're trying to include ethnic groups which the writers of the bible must have been clearly unaware. The "known world" of the ancient Jews basically included only the Near East, and they had no knowledge of western or northern Europe, let alone of Australia or the Americas.

I might want to point out that in early stages (well into the 19th century), linguists attempted a similar classification as you do know, trying to trace language families to Ham, Sem and Japeth - they obviously failed. One of these terms, the "Semitic" languages, are still used by linguistics today, but the other concepts obviously failed. Linguists realized that what they deemed "Hamitic" languages was actually not a natural group, and that the Semitic languages should be included, which is why we refer to the former "Hamito-Semitic" languages as "Afroasiatic" languages.

Finally, the ancient Jews were as unaware of genetics as they were of linguistics. So, in a nutshell, a cursory analysis of your idea shows that it is absolutely non-working.

I find interesting that although Shem or Sem for Semite is fictional supposedly as Ham or the Hamitics, they still chose to use the term Semitics?

Science, Religion and even Mythology have always been manipulated by certain groups, and on science on the Genetic side they claim the E-V13 as farmers, what a doubious claim, then the Bible explicitly talks about Cush and Nimrod, yet He is trying to be discredited by the Semites and the Japhetics
and Mythology even Saturn is clearly Nimrod, they picture him totally as anything but an E-v13

the whole world is divided in the following way:
Either you are
1) Hamitic (Halopgroups D or E or O among others)
2)Semitic (Halopgroups I or J)
3)Caucasian-aryan-Japhethic (R or P or Q or G Halopgroups)

yet over and over we see the last two groups falsely claim the the Hamitic achievements as follows:

The Semites falsely claim as Semites the following:
Albert Einstein He is an E-M35 a Hamitic
Shalom Ben Amram Samaritan High Priest He is an E-M35 a Hamitic

Japhethics or Caucasians Falsely Claim as Caucasians the Following:
The Wright Brothers they are E-M35 Hamitics
Hittler He is an E-M35 a Hamitic
Pope Paul V He is an E-M35 a Hamitic
Caravaggio He is an E-M35 a Hamitic
So see guys E-M35 comes in White Brown Yellow Black
And it can be found in:
Europe Latin America North America the Middle East Asia and Africa

 

[Kardu]

Am I missing A and B?

 

[Yetos]

So you know a girl with a Y-chromosome ? Impressive. Except that we call them boys/men, not girls.

sometimes boys go to Kazablanka or Brazil, make a surgery and become girls, at least in pappers, girls with Y-Dna :wary2:

 

[MOESAN]

I find interesting that although Shem or Sem for Semite is fictional supposedly as Ham or the Hamitics, they still chose to use the term Semitics?

Science, Religion and even Mythology have always been manipulated by certain groups, and on science on the Genetic side they claim the E-V13 as farmers, what a doubious claim, then the Bible explicitly talks about Cush and Nimrod, yet He is trying to be discredited by the Semites and the Japhetics
and Mythology even Saturn is clearly Nimrod, they picture him totally as anything but an E-v13

the whole world is divided in the following way:
Either you are
1) Hamitic (Halopgroups D or E or O among others)
2)Semitic (Halopgroups I or J)
3)Caucasian-aryan-Japhethic (R or P or Q or G Halopgroups)

yet over and over we see the last two groups falsely claim the the Hamitic achievements as follows:

The Semites falsely claim as Semites the following:
Albert Einstein He is an E-M35 a Hamitic
Shalom Ben Amram Samaritan High Priest He is an E-M35 a Hamitic

Japhethics or Caucasians Falsely Claim as Caucasians the Following:
The Wright Brothers they are E-M35 Hamitics
Hittler He is an E-M35 a Hamitic
Pope Paul V He is an E-M35 a Hamitic
Caravaggio He is an E-M35 a Hamitic
So see guys E-M35 comes in White Brown Yellow Black
And it can be found in:
Europe Latin America North America the Middle East Asia and Africa

what are you trying to explain here?
hamitic is a linguistic term, even if surely tied to an ancient ethny at first
Hitler, Wright Brothers, Caravaggio and others are all pure hamitic descendants???
surely Y-E1b M35 has something to dot AT THE ORIGIN with some Chamitic tribes and 'red-sea' autosomals, but as you DO know (or ought to learn very quickly) the Y chromosme in IMPORTANT crossings of ligneages (say: in a population where it reaches the 80% it looses a few, where it does not reach 15% it looses the bulk of them) can loose its origin "partners" genes fast enough -
+ yet the Semites (# Hamites) even if rich for Y-J1 had Y-E1bM35 for a long time in their ligneages
maybe too much people does not learn correctly the basic needed knowledge and is ready to accept every kind of phantasmagoric theories?
and what is this picture made of Saturn? by who?

 

[MOESAN]

in fact, E-M35 is a very loosely defined HG - the most of the Europeans with y-E are E-M35>>V68>>M78 - hamitic populations can have this SNPs but they have too very more often numerous others sub-HGs downstream to E-M35 - others members here can refine all that - and the E-M35>>Z827>>V257...>>M81 carry other autosomals even if not so far in origins...

 

[neonimrod]

All Humanity is divided among 3 lineages as follows:

1) Hamtics:
would be Halopgroup DE O > Halopgrou
D and Halopgroup E Halopgroup 0(Original Romans=E-V13, Latin Americans, Egyptians, Chinese, Ethiopians, Libyans, Morrocans, Palestinians...)

2)Semites:
IJ (S2) > J (M304) > J1 (M267) and J2 (M175) (Israelites, Jews, Arabs, Assyrians, Iraquis, Chechens, Jordans...)

3)Japhethics-Caucasians would be
P (M45) > R (M207) > R1 (M173) > R1b (M343) > R1b1 (P25) > R1b1c (M269) (Rusians, Slavics, Celtics)
P (M45) > Q (M45) (Mayans, Aztecs, Incas, Native Americans)

 

[Kardu]

and who are hg A and B? Martians?

(this is getting boring already)

 

[neonimrod]

This is why we need to investigate all the posible facts, we need science the bible, the mythology we find those have been abuse over and over by certain races and groups,

As per your question on A and B it seems they are in their ancestral state, A would be people with Adam's DNA, B would be Noah DNA


For sake of Clarity I see that Most Jewish called themselves Semites, this is Due to the Fact that they think their earliest Ancestor was Shem who was Noah son, based on that All Humanity is divided among 3 lineages:

Adam -> Noah -> 3 sons (Japhet, Ham and Shem)

1) Hamtics:
would be Halopgroups D E O > Halopgroup D and Halopgroup E Halopgroup 0(Original Romans=E-V13, 55%Latin and 30%North Americans = E-V13 , Egyptians, Japanese (Halopgroup D) Chinese (halopgoup 0), Ethiopians, Libyans, Morrocans, Philisteans or now called in Latin Palestinians...)

2)Semites:
IJ (S2) > J (M304) > J1 (M267) and J2 (M175) (Israelites, Jews, Arabs, Assyrians, Iraquis, Chechens, Jordans...)

3)Japhethics-Aryans-Caucasians would be
P (M45) > R (M207) > R1 (M173) > R1b (M343) > R1b1 (P25) > R1b1c (M269) (Rusians, Slavics, Celtics)
P (M45) > Q (M45) (Mayans, Aztecs, Incas, Native Americans)

On the Jewish writings we found that
E-M35 is Royal lineage Noah gave Ham the clothing Adam and Eve this is why Nimrod was able to Rule and be the first King of the world

4) Hamitics as Nation Builders
Adam -> Noah -> Ham -> Cush -> Nimrod -> Brutus founder of Britania, Latinus father of all Latins, Dardanus father of all Kosovars or Dardania, Illus father of all Illyrians, Tros father of the
Trojans, Romulus Father of all Romans etc etc etc
Nimrod Built
Babel (Babylon), Erech, Accad and Calneh, all in the land of Shinar was built by Nimrod, Then He built in the territory of Assyria Nineveh and Rehoboth-Ir and Calah and Resen Between Nineveh and
Calah

5) Hamitic Nation by countries:

Adam -> Noah -> Ham -> Halopgroup D -> Japanese, Tibetans, Tajiskistan

Adam -> Noah -> Ham -> Canaan -> Sine -> Halopgroup O -> Daxy Culture, Hmong-Mien (Miao-Yao) Southern China Southeast Asia, Thailand, Laos, Vietnam, Burma

Adam -> Noah -> Ham -> Cush -> Ethiopia, Yemen, Oman, Somalia, Sudan, Egypt, Palestine, Libya, Morrocco, Algeria, Kenya

6)The Hamitic Nation has the following colors (Our Melanin works perfectly as we have the greatest diversity):

Yellow Hamitics
Adam -> Noah -> Ham -> Canaan -> Sine -> Halopgroup O -> Daxy Culture, Hmong-Mien (Miao-Yao) Southern China Southeast Asia, Thailand, Laos, Vietnam, Burma

Brown and white Hamitics
Adam -> Noah -> Ham -> Cush -> Egypt, Palestine, Libya, Morrocco, Latin Americans, North Americans, Hispanics,
Romans (Romulus), Albanians (Illus, Illyria), Kosovo (Dardania Dardanus), Greece, Macedonia, Montenegro, Romania
23% serbians, 20% bulgarians, 18% Italians and the 5% to 15% in all other countries in Europe

Black Hamites
Adam -> Noah -> Ham -> Cush -> Ethiopia, Yemen, Oman, Somalia, Sudan, Morrocco, Algeria, Kenya, India
Adam -> Noah -> Ham -> Canaan -> Sine -> Halopgroup O -> Daxy Culture, Hmong-Mien (Miao-Yao) Southern China Southeast Asia, Thailand, Laos, Vietnam, Burma

7) Hamitic Faces:

Adam -> Noah -> Ham -> Cush -> Obama, Albert Einstein, Hittler, 40% of Jews/Israelis, Shalom Ben Amram ben Yitzhaq Samaritan High Priest, Wright Brothers, Me! and the Rest of E-M35s
Albanians Kosovars, Latin Americans, Egyptians etc etc, black white, brown and yellow!!

8) Genealogies of Famous

Adam -> Noah -> Ham -> Cush -> Nimrod

E (Ham)-> E-M35 (Cush)-> E-V13 (Nimrod)-> Hittler (unfortunately but that would be his genealogy)

E (Ham)-> E-M35 (Cush)-> E-V13 (Nimrod)-> Kosovars

E (Ham)-> E-M35 (Cush)-> E-V13 (Nimrod)-> Albanians

E (Ham)-> E-M35 (Cush)-> E-V13 (Nimrod)-> Greeks

E (Ham)-> E-M35 (Cush)-> E-V13 (Nimrod)-> Macedonians

E (Ham)-> E-M35 (Cush)-> E-V13 (Nimrod)-> Montenegro

E (Ham)-> E-M35 (Cush)-> E-V13 (Nimrod)-> South Italians

E (Ham)-> E-M35 (Cush)-> E-V13 (Nimrod)-> 75% Latin Americans

E (Ham)-> E-M35 (Cush)-> E-V13 (Nimrod)-> 40% North Americans

E (Ham)-> E-M35 (Cush)-> Egyptians

E (Ham)-> E-M35 (Cush)-> Philisteans - Palestinians

E (Ham)-> E-M35 (Cush)-> Libyans

E (Ham)-> E-M35 (Cush)-> Morrocans

E (Ham)-> E-M35 (Cush)-> Ethiopians

E (Ham)-> E-M35 (Cush)-> Sudan

E (Ham)-> E-M35 (Cush)-> Kenya

E (Ham)-> E-M35 (Cush)-> Obama

E (Ham)-> E-M35 (Cush)-> Albert Einstein

 

[Taranis]

This is why we need to investigate all the posible facts, we need science the bible, the mythology we find those have been abuse over and over by certain races and groups,

As per your question on A and B it seems they are in their ancestral state, A would be people with Adam's DNA, B would be Noah DNA


For sake of Clarity I see that Most Jewish called themselves Semites, this is Due to the Fact that they think their earliest Ancestor was Shem who was Noah son, based on that All Humanity is divided among 3 lineages:

Adam -> Noah -> 3 sons (Japhet, Ham and Shem)

Before you continue posting such wildly imaginative stories, let me reiterate that the bible, in particular the old testament, has no authority of a historical narrative, and in particular that the story of Noah: it is clearly taken from a much older work, the Epic of Gilgamesh, and some phrases in it are borrowed, almost to the line.

On Mt. Nimush the boat lodged firm,Mt. Nimush held the boat, allowing no sway.
One day and a second Mt. Nimush held the boat, allowing
no sway.
A third day, a fourth, Mt. Nimush held the boat, allowing
no sway.
A fifth day, a sixth, Mt. Nimush held the boat, allowing
no sway.
When a seventh day arrived
I sent forth a dove and released it.
The dove went off, but came back to me;
no perch was visible so it circled back to me.
I sent forth a swallow and released it.
The swallow went off, but came back to me;
no perch was visible so it circled back to me.
I sent forth a raven and released it.
The raven went off, and saw the waters slither back.
It eats, it scratches, it bobs, but does not circle back to me.

4 And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.5 And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen.
6 And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made:
7 And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth.
8 Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground;
9 But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.
10 And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark;
11 And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.
12 And he stayed yet other seven days; and sent forth the dove; which returned not again unto him any more.

Then I sent out everything in all directions and sacrificed (a sheep).
I offered incense in front of the mountain-ziggurat.
Seven and seven cult vessels I put in place,
and (into the fire) underneath (or: into their bowls) I poured
reeds, cedar, and myrtle.
The gods smelled the savor,
the gods smelled the sweet savor,
and collected like flies over a (sheep) sacrifice.
Just then Beletili arrived.
She lifted up the large flies (beads) which Anu had made for
his enjoyment(!):
'You gods, as surely as I shall not forget this lapis lazuli
around my neck,
may I be mindful of these days, and never forget them!

22And Noah builded an altar unto the Lord; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
21 And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

As you can evidently see, some of the sentences are uncannily similar. The story of Noah is clearly borrowed from the earlier Mesopotamian mythology, specifically the story of Utnapishim in the Epic of Gilgamesh. The Akkadian Standard Version of the Epic of Gilgamesh was written approximately 800 years before the Tanakh (the five books of Moses).

Likewise, as everybody knows, the biblical genealogy is far too short to be in relation in any way to real life history and prehistory. While it is possible to reconstruct an Y-chromosomal "Adam", but this person was in no way the first human as the biblical Adam is imagined, nor was he the only human male alive: he was the only human alive at his time which still bears direct-line male descendants today. He also lived many times earlier than the bible would tell us (this is why people rightfully ridicule on the assertation of creationists that the world was only 6000 years old).

In summary, and I regret that I have to say this so directly and unflattering, there's absolutely no sense in what you are doing here.