Greatest Spanish contribution(s) to the world ?

What is/are the greatest Spanish contribution(s) to the world?

  • Spanish food (tapas, paella, tortilla, Iberian pork, churros, etc.)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The classical guitar

    Votes: 1 100.0%
  • Spanish painting (Goya, Velásquez, Dali, Picasso, Miro, etc.)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The invention of cigarettes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The epidural analgesia

    Votes: 1 100.0%
  • Other (please specify)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    1
^^
^^


Often the reward and credit for work does not take it who actually performs it, and this is one meaning of the saying, but this sense is not the same.

Its main thrust is to indicate that although one can have an opinion about something it may well be others more deserving.

A clear example is in the terrible Spanish Inquisition. This was a terrible institution in the name of God, many people sentenced to terms abominable and has given this country a bad name in Europe, fame still remains. In one example: the story of Poe called The Pit and the Pendulum. But despite the awfulness of this institution, the Spanish of that time are almost little angels compared to their northern brethren, sing and figures tell us that the dead in central Europe can be counted by thousands.
 
That is completely false and part of the black legend. The spaniards didn't kill millions of amerindians. About 99% of the deaths were caused by small pox and other european diseases to which amerindians were not prepared.

If I had counted diseases I would have said tens or hundreds of millions. Amerindian tribes were more or less equal with one another regarding imported European diseases. Yet, in the Caribbean, the region first colonised by the Spaniards, 99% of the indigenous population disappeared, a much higher rate than the death accountable to diseases in the Aztec or Inca empires. This is because most Caribbean Indians were used as slave labour to build the early colonial infrastructure. Many more were massacred for fun or because they didn't want to convert or to become subjects of the King of Spain.

Father Bartolomé de las Casas, the “Defender of the Indians” estimated there were 6 million Taíno and Arawak in the Caribbean at the time of Columbus's arrival in 1492. Nowadays, the Caribbean population is mostly of African descent with some European blood, and only barely discernible traces of Native American DNA on some islands. In comparison, countries like Mexico or Bolivia, who also suffered heavily from diseases, have retained a majority of Native American genes today, because they were numerous and advanced enough to withstand the excesses of the conquistadors.

But even where whole populations were not exterminated in a short time frame, Amerindians suffered immensely from the Spanish exploitation. It's not because large Amerindians populations survived in Central America and in the Andes that millions of people didn't die their from Spanish hands, whips and guns (as opposed to diseases). Slave labour of native populations was used intensively by Spanish colonisers, for example in the silver mines of the Andes. At Potosi (Bolivia) alone, one of the biggest silver mines in the world, Henry Hobhouse mentions in his remarkable book Seeds of Change (page 337) that 'between 1560 and 1620, about ten thousands Amerindians died each year, or 600,000 in sixty years. This number excludes children and people killed by European diseases, but includes working children over eight.'

Hobhouse doesn't mention the death rate afterwards. However, Potosi was exploited by the Spaniards until the war of independence of Bolivia in the early 1800's. It is likely that the cumulated total of deaths during those 250 years exceeds one million people, perhaps even two millions. These deaths are less obvious because they are spread out over a very long time and those are indirect casualties from exhaustion, excessive whipping or the occasional shot. They are nevertheless deaths on the Spanish conscience.

Potosi is just one examples among many on a huge continent. It would be unreasonable to deny that millions of Amerindians were killed by the Spaniards during the 300 years of colonisation. Knowing the fanatical religiosity of the Spaniards at the time, it is easy to conceive how violent forced conversions could lead to widespread sporadic massacres all over the continent. When I see the tortures and executions committed on fellow Christians and Europeans by the Spaniards in the Low Countries, it is hard to imagine how they would have behaved in a more civilised manner with people that they referred to as "savages".

I think you should read a lot more and not trust what the Spanish education system wants you to believe about your country's history. It's so common for national governments to hide the ugly part of their past that it is almost stereotypical. Japanese schools don't teach about the massacres committed by the Japanese Imperial army in Korea, China and South-East Asia before and during WWII. Belgians don't learn about Leopold II's massacres in Congo at school. French schools happily skip over the Algerian War of Independence. I don't expect Spaniards to be taught all this at school.
 
The three countries I have any experience with Australia, Greece and England don't teach negative or shameful aspects of their histories in schools either. Unfortunately nationalism all to often becomes involved with school programmes, I'd be surprised if there is any country who is completely honest about its past.
 
The three countries I have any experience with Australia, Greece and England don't teach negative or shameful aspects of their histories in schools either. Unfortunately nationalism all to often becomes involved with school programmes, I'd be surprised if there is any country who is completely honest about its past.

Germany's history doesn't get away well in German history books. However, there is a tendency that German crimes prior to WWI, like colonialism and other wars in Europe, are usually neglected. But I'm not sure whether it is to protect Germany, or just because it's history from 1914 till 1945 makes any further analyses from the past too overloaded.
 
You may be right about national educations, Maciamo. However, someone who considers the crusaders to be heroes whose only motivation was saving Europe from Islamic imperialism and all spanish missioners to be fanatics and mass-murderers of amerindians, is far away from having an unbiased vision of these historic events related to religion.

Regards.
 
You may be right about national educations, Maciamo. However, someone who considers the crusaders to be heroes whose only motivation was saving Europe from Islamic imperialism and all spanish missioners to be fanatics and mass-murderers of amerindians, is far away from having an unbiased vision of these historic events related to religion.

Why would you think that I consider crusaders to be heroes ? They were idiotic *****s like all other religious fanatics. Btw, there has never been such a thing as "Islamic imperialism". The crusaders didn't save Europe from any Islamic expansion either. They just wanted to free Jerusalem. It was Charles Martel who stopped the Islamic expansion from Iberia into France in 732, i.e. 364 years before the First Crusade. In Central/Eastern Europe it was the Austrians who stopped the Islamic expansion by defeating the Ottomans in Vienna in 1683. Anyhow, what makes you think I have a better opinion of Christians than Muslims ? They are in the same category for me.
 
Why would you think that I consider crusaders to be heroes ? They were idiotic *****s like all other religious fanatics. Btw, there has never been such a thing as "Islamic imperialism". The crusaders didn't save Europe from any Islamic expansion either. They just wanted to free Jerusalem. It was Charles Martel who stopped the Islamic expansion from Iberia into France in 732, i.e. 364 years before the First Crusade. In Central/Eastern Europe it was the Austrians who stopped the Islamic expansion by defeating the Ottomans in Vienna in 1683. Anyhow, what makes you think I have a better opinion of Christians than Muslims ? They are in the same category for me.

I was referring to a message you posted some time ago in a thread about the Crusades.

This is the thread: http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18292

And this is the message:
Very interesting article ! Please all read it (at least from The threat of Islam). It explains well that the crusades were not free acts of aggression and imperialism, nor the epitome of self-righteousness and intolerance as so many think. The prime culprit was Islam. Islam was born out of war and expanded from a tiny part of Saudi Arabia to conquer by the sword 2/3 of the Christian world at the time. Islam had taken most of Spain and Turkey and was thus ready to take over Europe. Something had to be done, and the response of the Europeans were the crusades. In other words, the crusaders prevented Islam from destroying Christianity and sacking Europe. And the Muslims only got what they asked for.

The crusaders had to sacrifice most of their possessions (land, wealth, families... and even their lives) to save Europe. They were not the selfish war-mongers often depicted; they were heroes.
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showpost.php?p=254083&postcount=23

Regards.
 
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The crusaders were economic opportunists in great part and most of their actions were pretty barbaric. Not that the Muslims were any better...
 
All colonial powers committed serious crimes against indigenous peoples. No European colonizer was any better or worse than the other. However, it may well be that, overall, disease claimed more native lives in the New World than European arms.
 
Ha! Now you can see by yourself that rummaging through old messages of other member can pay off! :LOL: Anyways, thumbs up! (y)
Some years before:
:D
So what?
New facts and opinions about a subject can make a man change his mind.
What's wrong with that?
But I know for sure, some members of this forum don't have that intellectual skill. :innocent:
And about the poll.. I can't think of anything Spain contributed to the world.
They were a pain in the Dutch neck for 80 years.
They stole our 17 Provinces flag.
They are cruel to bulls.
They invented machismo.
The only positive thing in Spain is Batasuna.:gun:
 
More facts on Spanish religious history.

Google: St Francis Xavier and the Goa Inquisition

In a letter 1545 St Francis Xavier requesed an Inguisition i to be installed in Goa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goa_Inquisition

All history is not only about the secular, but also about the religious.
 
Goa was part of the Portuguese Empire. Not the spanish.

Regards.
 
St Francis Xavier was born in Xavier Castile Navarre, Spain. His Inquisition request may have been to Portugal, however, he was the great SPANISH CONTRIBUTOR of this.

All Inquistions since 1492 were instigated by the Spanish Reys Catolicos, Fernando y Esabella (who were both descendants of Pedro the Cruel), and the Catholic Church approved all Inquisitions and ruled both Spain and Portugal in GOA and elsewhere.

"They is no abuse without enablers". unk author.

Right Spain is not Portugal, The area known now as Portugal was given to Teresa the illegitimate daughter the King of Leon in 1095. Check out the intermarriages from that point on to see how different Portugal was from Spain.
 
Francis Xavier was spaniard, yes... Does that change the fact that the King of Portugal (and not Spain's) was the one who ruled those territories? No.

In fact, Francis Xavier sent his letter-request to the King of Portugal. So I don't get how are you trying to argue against my last message.

Regards.
 
I think you should read a lot more and not trust what the Spanish education system wants you to believe about your country's history. It's so common for national governments to hide the ugly part of their past that it is almost stereotypical. Japanese schools don't teach about the massacres committed by the Japanese Imperial army in Korea, China and South-East Asia before and during WWII. Belgians don't learn about Leopold II's massacres in Congo at school. French schools happily skip over the Algerian War of Independence. I don't expect Spaniards to be taught all this at school.
Actually it is the contrary. In our education system they want us to feel guilty about our past, not proud. And what's more, it's in your countries (Belgium, Netherlands, England, France) where the brainwashing against spaniards was more strong, the epicenter of the black legend, all the lies against Spain, portraying us as the devil. The english killed far more amerindians. The spanairds mixed with them, in south-America most people are mestizo, but in North-America most people are white.
 
St Francis Xavier was born in Xavier Castile Navarre, Spain. His Inquisition request may have been to Portugal, however, he was the great SPANISH CONTRIBUTOR of this.

All Inquistions since 1492 were instigated by the Spanish Reys Catolicos, Fernando y Esabella (who were both descendants of Pedro the Cruel), and the Catholic Church approved all Inquisitions and ruled both Spain and Portugal in GOA and elsewhere.

"They is no abuse without enablers". unk author.

Right Spain is not Portugal, The area known now as Portugal was given to Teresa the illegitimate daughter the King of Leon in 1095. Check out the intermarriages from that point on to see how different Portugal was from Spain.

The first and second Counties of Portugal, ~ 800 and ~ 1090, were Gallaecian, as was the first kingdom. Many now consider Teresa I the first true Portuguese monarch, not Afonso de Henriques, her son.
 
I thought I was going to read an adult discussion on Spanish contributions to the world, and hopefully learn something new. Seems I've walked into a school playground instead.
 
I thought I was going to read an adult discussion on Spanish contributions to the world, and hopefully learn something new. Seems I've walked into a school playground instead.

The Spanish have a long history of oppression.
They can't stand the fact they contribute little positive.

The invention of the cigarette?
Is that a positive point?
Bullfighting?
Opus Dei?
Inquisition?
Franco?
Guernica?
 

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