GEDMatch Greek from Elis (Western Peloponnese) Gedmatch results

Are you talking about K36 Angela?

No, bigsnake, I was talking about MyHeritage.

I can't comment about K36 because I've never tested it against myself.
 
Albanians usually plot quite far east of Tuscans (Slavic, not West European admixture), but parallel, if that makes sense.

I've never seen an Albanian plot with Northern Italians. The only people from the Balkans whom I've seen plot with Northern Italians are Bulgarians occasionally, or Romanians.

We've known this for decades, since the days of Cavalli-Sforza.

As for Southern Italians/Sicilians, they're closest to people from the Peloponnese and some of the islands.

Where did these Bulgarians and Romanians come from? I find it quite dubious that populations whose ethnogenesis is predominantly Slavic can plot in this direction.


As far as Albanians and Kosovars are concerned, the autosomal differences related to certain regions are quite underestimated. The accuracy with which the Slavic admixture in them can be measured is also rather approximate.


My father comes from Ulpiana (Central Kosovo) and gets 14.87% Baltic (I know that doesn't necessarily equate with Slavic) and 26.25% North Atlantic with this K13 calculator; the "Slavic input" seems to be significantly smaller than that of mainstream Albanians.
 
I find it hard to believe that Albanian_Catholic_Mirdite is a legit sample, or this is just a fluke, or perhaps due to low resolution.

Albanians do not cluster with Central Italians, regardless of religion. This person would be an outlier, not only for Albania, but for the entire Balkans in general.
 
Sure! Please post any possibly interesting result that you might find if you use it with the available datasheets.
View attachment 13158


In my friend's case, her grandson, who is of very mixed (greek) background his Myheritage kit produced VERY similar results with his WGS derived kit which had basically 100% overlap. I understand that's not always the case though.
He may test her with Ancestry too in the future, it was going to be the first choice but budgetary restrictions (and a very good offer :D) turned his attention to Myheritage.

Ancestry is the superior calculator to pretty much all of the consumer-genomic test, this is quantifiable, when you look at the amount of SNPs yielded in the raw data.
 
I find it hard to believe that Albanian_Catholic_Mirdite is a legit sample, or this is just a fluke, or perhaps due to low resolution.
Albanians do not cluster with Central Italians, regardless of religion. This person would be an outlier, not only for Albania, but for the entire Balkans in general.
Considering that Balkans_IA was a south-to-central Italians-like genetic profile. maybe this group of Albanians were insulated from Slavic input, perhaps.
 
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Considering that Balkans_IA was a south-to-central Italians-like genetic profile. maybe this group of Albanians were insulated from Slavic input, perhaps.

There definitely is a slight autosomal north west pull in some Kosovar and Geg groups overall, my region included. Considering the Patterson/Reich et. al. IA Illyrian samples or Mathieson MBA Posusje samples and knowing how they plot it is not really a surprise to me. They were not modern south/central Italian like though neither did they overlap with IA Latini, they clearly form their own cluster.

The Mirdita sample is very odd to me since he also has an elevated West Asian percentage. Having a lower Baltic percentage than mainstream Albanians (usually 18-22 %) is not really a rarity and is heavily tied to what region you are from. I got 15.07%, my father gets 14.87%. I have relatives who are on the 12 percentile but 9% like this Mirdita inidividual seems very very unusual. I really doubt that his results are legit (probably low resolution or smh) unless during the time of fascist Italy some highly unlikely mixing happened but even then that result does not seem to work out.
 
I find it hard to believe that Albanian_Catholic_Mirdite is a legit sample, or this is just a fluke, or perhaps due to low resolution.

Albanians do not cluster with Central Italians, regardless of religion. This person would be an outlier, not only for Albania, but for the entire Balkans in general.

It is probably an outlier but Mirdita is the most isolated region in Albania.
 
It's an average of 4 full Maniots, genotyped with high coverage raw data. I'm not sure what you mean by self made, or why you assume that.

I meant like extracting coordinates from someone who is like half Thessalian and half Maniot and creating a full Maniot sample well that was clearly not the case here. Do you mind sharing those Deep Maniotes coordinates?
 
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There definitely is a slight autosomal north west pull in some Kosovar and Geg groups overall, my region included. Considering the Patterson/Reich et. al. IA Illyrian samples or Mathieson MBA Posusje samples and knowing how they plot it is not really a surprise to me. They were not modern south/central Italian like though neither did they overlap with IA Latini, they clearly form their own cluster.

The Mirdita sample is very odd to me since he also has an elevated West Asian percentage. Having a lower Baltic percentage than mainstream Albanians (usually 18-22 %) is not really a rarity and is heavily tied to what region you are from. I got 15.07%, my father gets 14.87%. I have relatives who are on the 12 percentile but 9% like this Mirdita inidividual seems very very unusual. I really doubt that his results are legit (probably low resolution or smh) unless during the time of fascist Italy some highly unlikely mixing happened but even then that result does not seem to work out.

The sample I am referring to is:

Code:
Balkan_(Bulgaria)_IA:I5769:Mathieson_2018,2.57,0,2.28,0,37.94,13.19,0,0,9.59,0.01,34.31,0.12

At least, according to Olalde et al 2021 pre-print, is pretty representative of the region in the IA.

INB4 someone mentions the modeling of the paper*

The PCAs check out, could be a coincidence. However, Aegean_BA/IA + northern Balkan groups makes too much sense to me, imo. The same dymanic happened in Southern, (particularly South-Eastern) Italy, which was observed in Sarno et al. 2021. Except in the Southern Italian scenario instead of Northern Balkan groups, it was Northwestern European groups ultimately originating from France.
M1olbRI.png


68hqRhy.png


epI5kEs.png


I feel strongly about this, because all of this was confirmed in my own analysis of European populations, using Dodecad K12b, and aDNA.
 
Deep Maniotes seem to be more southern shifted than Southern Italians (closer to Crete).

Distance to:Deep_Mani
1.86027076Greek_Kythera
2.14390428Greek_Deep_Mani
3.07983837Greek_Crete
3.18466180Greek_Ikaria
4.07237040Greek_Chios
4.09425480Greek_Lesbos
4.39783784Italian_Calabria
4.69697699Greek_Smyrna&Phokaia
4.74575262Maltese
4.90658163Greek_Tsakonia
5.05909036Italian_Campania
5.11133864Greek_Cyclades
5.12715261Greek_Andros
5.33884086Greek_Istanbul
5.37170719Greek_Kalymnos
5.47805154Italian_Sicily
5.72317807Italian_Apulia
5.72622893Greek_Nisyros
5.75975672Greek_Kefalonia
6.37207028Greek_Samos
6.58448362Greek_Kos
6.69705211Greek_Karpathos
6.75821362Italian_Molise
7.24498986Greek_Athens
7.32063321Italian_Basilicata


Other regions:
Distance to:North_Tsakonia
1.93646154Greek_Central
2.07554150Greek_Athens
2.36274664Greek_Kefalonia
2.38570817Greek_Smyrna&Phokaia
3.29790447Greek_Messenia
3.43201379Greek_Laconia
3.49586687Greek_Peloponnese
3.55650638Greek_Tsakonia
3.85990814Greek_Istanbul
3.89326253Greek_Cyclades
4.80568681Greek_Samos
5.23107468Greek_Euboea_South
5.46202510Greek_Achaea
5.56761347Greek_Arcadia
5.62769769Turkish_Crete
5.75576566Italian_Apulia
5.91332914Italian_Molise
6.01401219Greek_Laconia_Karitsa
6.11345656Italian_Abruzzo
6.22769896Greek_Kythera
6.43429161Greek_Epirus
6.45749760Greek_Lefkada
6.59479385Italian_Basilicata
6.65419368Italian_Sicily
6.69035471Greek_Deep_Mani


Distance to:South_Tsakonia
1.79656212Greek_Smyrna&Phokaia
2.40553864Greek_Kefalonia
2.84551258Greek_Cyclades
3.42604313Greek_Samos
3.55007003Greek_Athens
3.78571764Greek_Central
3.81390164Greek_Tsakonia
4.49951708Italian_Apulia
4.55387682Greek_Istanbul
4.69202559Greek_Kythera
5.13975254Greek_Deep_Mani
5.29610978Italian_Sicily
5.41777085Italian_Molise
5.44735645Italian_Campania
5.47953768Greek_Lesbos
5.95956532Greek_Messenia
6.04581852Italian_Abruzzo
6.12574581Italian_Basilicata
6.17535349Greek_Crete
6.26302472Greek_Laconia
6.55037848Greek_Peloponnese
6.72484912Maltese
6.93473368Turkish_Crete
7.01371243Greek_Andros
7.03807653Greek_Ikaria


Distance to:West_Taygetos
1.70093361Greek_Achaea
2.63865977Greek_Peloponnese
2.70722941Greek_West
2.76689362Greek_Laconia
3.01809000Greek_Epirus
3.05664823Greek_CentralMacedonia
3.12459202Greek_Messenia
3.53246228Greek_Thessaly
3.99593322Greek_Laconia_Karitsa
4.17660968Greek_Central
4.21294997Greek_Arcadia
4.33840963Greek_Euboea_South
4.67874996Turkish_Macedonia
4.87493259Greek_Athens
5.31924782Albanian_South_Albania
5.67512962Albanian_Macedonia
5.90217507Turkish_Crete
5.96083253Greek_Thrace
5.97197743Aromanian
6.13555161Greek_Kefalonia
6.26686022Torbesh
6.32460513Albanian_Central_Albania
6.32945337Macedonian_South
6.52782226Greek_Florina
6.63233894Albanian_North_Albania


Distance to:Messenia
1.78443051Greek_Laconia
1.82445361Greek_Messenia
2.21494009Greek_Laconia_Karitsa
2.30823417Greek_Euboea_South
2.35148565Greek_Peloponnese
2.75062675Greek_Central
3.06126566Greek_Athens
3.09029751Greek_Achaea
3.23957349Greek_Thessaly
3.38698636Greek_Arcadia
3.55482425Greek_Epirus
4.02433527Albanian_South_Albania
4.02785676Greek_CentralMacedonia
4.09937308Albanian_Central_Albania
4.28662946Greek_West
4.51944453Greek_Kefalonia
5.66939719Greek_Smyrna&Phokaia
5.76982040Albanian_Macedonia
5.81651732Torbesh
6.10970683Greek_Cyclades
6.12163082Greek_Samos
6.22712356Turkish_Macedonia
6.24061039Turkish_Crete
6.41568604Albanian_North_Albania
6.59024771Albanian_Kosovo


Distance to:Laconia
1.34272498Greek_Central
1.72524704Greek_Athens
2.11537626Greek_Laconia
2.32377230Greek_Messenia
2.38798350Greek_Peloponnese
2.73945657Greek_Kefalonia
3.70360048Greek_Smyrna&Phokaia
3.79466897Greek_Euboea_South
3.99586296Greek_Achaea
4.04227052Greek_Arcadia
4.55905528Greek_Laconia_Karitsa
4.79762165Greek_Cyclades
5.07568701Greek_Tsakonia
5.19805507Greek_Istanbul
5.23185363Greek_Samos
5.38877434Greek_Thessaly
5.40732686Greek_West
5.46176927Greek_Epirus
5.46219533Turkish_Crete
5.47474079Greek_CentralMacedonia
5.78800147Albanian_Central_Albania
5.85165954Albanian_South_Albania
6.61744105Italian_Apulia
6.76511307Italian_Molise
6.82316305Italian_Abruzzo


Distance to:Corinthia
1.32545157Greek_Messenia
1.86392982Greek_Athens
1.97215539Greek_Laconia
2.00832564Greek_Central
2.33503948Greek_Peloponnese
2.56465580Greek_Euboea_South
2.95035962Greek_Arcadia
3.44360776Greek_Kefalonia
3.66572085Greek_Laconia_Karitsa
3.72494924Greek_Achaea
4.12273688Albanian_Central_Albania
4.42692013Greek_Thessaly
4.53586506Albanian_South_Albania
4.70018317Greek_Smyrna&Phokaia
4.72459092Greek_Epirus
4.73698183Greek_CentralMacedonia
4.95351611Greek_West
5.34430392Greek_Cyclades
5.65103060Greek_Tsakonia
5.73427061Greek_Samos
6.51793080Torbesh
6.52206903Turkish_Crete
6.62358546Greek_Istanbul
6.69606484Albanian_Macedonia
6.72041084Italian_Abruzzo


Distance to:Elis
1.64257371Greek_Central
1.72570890Greek_Messenia
2.02997233Greek_Laconia
2.04825292Greek_Athens
2.37189701Greek_Peloponnese
3.13965288Greek_Achaea
3.16079701Greek_Euboea_South
3.45392213Greek_Arcadia
3.49554351Greek_Kefalonia
3.78031918Greek_Laconia_Karitsa
4.48842401Greek_Smyrna&Phokaia
4.51702639Greek_West
4.51915865Greek_Epirus
4.52468900Greek_CentralMacedonia
4.53274229Greek_Thessaly
4.89351490Albanian_Central_Albania
5.19599711Albanian_South_Albania
5.36207847Greek_Samos
5.40921524Greek_Cyclades
5.70364125Turkish_Crete
5.99377236Greek_Tsakonia
6.16590953Greek_Istanbul
6.91119631Torbesh
6.94374302Albanian_Macedonia
7.05597933Turkish_Macedonia


Distance to:Arcadia
0.97549805Greek_Peloponnese
1.31055552Greek_Messenia
1.42303995Greek_Laconia
2.75773245Greek_Central
2.81208833Greek_Athens
2.96849264Greek_Arcadia
3.25278820Greek_Achaea
3.25524418Greek_Euboea_South
4.20458876Greek_Kefalonia
4.29122700Greek_Laconia_Karitsa
4.35747831Greek_Thessaly
4.40155863Greek_Epirus
4.41217541Greek_West
4.42605822Greek_CentralMacedonia
4.61718843Albanian_South_Albania
5.07296631Greek_Smyrna&Phokaia
5.23952989Albanian_Central_Albania
5.61962036Greek_Tsakonia
6.06848383Greek_Istanbul
6.13644407Greek_Cyclades
6.23672918Turkish_Crete
6.37148893Albanian_Macedonia
6.55103376Torbesh
6.62426652Greek_Lefkada
6.72837375Greek_Samos


Distance to:Argolis
1.24198666Greek_Messenia
1.77859308Greek_Laconia
1.87695721Greek_Athens
1.94458694Greek_Central
2.12871578Greek_Peloponnese
2.58194565Greek_Euboea_South
2.96455407Greek_Arcadia
3.46901367Greek_Kefalonia
3.50394147Greek_Achaea
3.60561622Greek_Laconia_Karitsa
4.28560595Albanian_Central_Albania
4.35243964Greek_Thessaly
4.56100519Greek_Epirus
4.57406612Albanian_South_Albania
4.63464733Greek_CentralMacedonia
4.64172714Greek_Smyrna&Phokaia
4.75044270Greek_West
5.35550823Greek_Cyclades
5.69903113Greek_Tsakonia
5.70113308Greek_Samos
6.24918842Turkish_Crete
6.49949755Greek_Istanbul
6.50713692Torbesh
6.63477342Albanian_Macedonia
6.83324270Italian_Abruzzo


Distance to:East_Taygetos
1.81611425Greek_Central
1.83909183Greek_Laconia
1.97482466Greek_Peloponnese
2.30455665Greek_Athens
2.30934821Greek_Messenia
3.25028882Greek_Kefalonia
3.91672807Greek_Achaea
3.94069266Greek_Smyrna&Phokaia
4.01904809Greek_Euboea_South
4.30587248Greek_Arcadia
4.60289963Greek_Laconia_Karitsa
5.03950861Greek_Istanbul
5.10965160Greek_Cyclades
5.16040099Greek_Epirus
5.17969547Greek_Tsakonia
5.24410324Turkish_Crete
5.27435935Greek_Thessaly
5.27954105Greek_West
5.43839276Greek_CentralMacedonia
5.64383820Greek_Samos
5.78402080Albanian_South_Albania
6.16450827Albanian_Central_Albania
6.89403950Greek_Lefkada
6.98738053Italian_Apulia
6.99832282Italian_Molise
 
it points out as per another thread about a new article (reference forthcoming) how close Peloponnesian people are to to Italians but in her case the Central Italians. Usually the Peloponnesian's are close to Southern Italians.

As a Peloponnesian Greek my closest G25 Italian population is Marche or Molise. I do agree that Deep Maniots and Tsakonians may cluster with Southern Italians and/or Siclians.
 
Albanians usually plot quite far east of Tuscans (Slavic, not West European admixture), but parallel, if that makes sense.

I've never seen an Albanian plot with Northern Italians. The only people from the Balkans whom I've seen plot with Northern Italians are Bulgarians occasionally, or Romanians.

We've known this for decades, since the days of Cavalli-Sforza.

As for Southern Italians/Sicilians, they're closest to people from the Peloponnese and some of the islands.

Southern Italians/Sicilians cluster with Deep Maniots and/or Tsakonians (who are East Med like) but in general not standard Peloponnesians (more Balkan like) who are typically closer to Molise and/or Marche.
 
Southern Italians/Sicilians cluster with Deep Maniots and/or Tsakonians (who are East Med like) but in general not standard Peloponnesians (more Balkan like) who are typically closer to Molise and/or Marche.

Matadworf, I know "East Med" is a term long used on anthrofora, but it's meaningless, and therefore not used by academicians. If you mean Aegean or Anatolian Bronze Age, that would be closer to the reality.

Of all Greeks, Deep Maniots, Tsakonians, and Aegean Islanders are closest to their illustrious ancestors, the Bronze Age, Iron Age and Classical Era Greeks, because their isolation means they were less impacted by the Slavic migrations.

I've never seen Greeks plot as far north as the Marche. The furthest north I've seen them is southeast of Tuscany, and those were Thessalonians; the rest plotted east of Central Italian and further south, like Campania, Apulia, etc.
 
Matadworf, I know "East Med" is a term long used on anthrofora, but it's meaningless, and therefore not used by academicians. If you mean Aegean or Anatolian Bronze Age, that would be closer to the reality.

Of all Greeks, Deep Maniots, Tsakonians, and Aegean Islanders are closest to their illustrious ancestors, the Bronze Age, Iron Age and Classical Era Greeks, because their isolation means they were less impacted by the Slavic migrations.

I've never seen Greeks plot as far north as the Marche. The furthest north I've seen them is southeast of Tuscany, and those were Thessalonians; the rest plotted east of Central Italian and further south, like Campania, Apulia, etc.
4

SE_Laconia in G25 that plotted with Abruzzes were not Maniotes which I mistakenly referred them as. Deep Maniotes are slightly north of Cretans and slightly south of Calabrese. South Tsakonians seem to be closer to Sicilians though.

I think that some other eastern coastal Laconians are in "the Abruzzo cluster" too. Eastern Laconia remained into the Byzantine order.

Maniotes from West Taygetus seem to be like other Mainland Greeks, that makes sense because the Slavic language survived in Taygetus till the 15th century. While Emperor Constatine VII wrote this about Deep Mani:
There is a description of Mani and its inhabitants in Constantine VII's De Administrando Imperio:[21]
Be it known that the inhabitants of Castle Maina are not from the race of aforesaid Slavs (Melingoi and Ezeritai dwelling on the Taygetus) but from the older Romaioi, who up to the present time are termed Hellenes by the local inhabitants on account of their being in olden times idolatres and worshippers of idols like the ancient Greeks, and who were baptized and became Christians in the reign of the glorious Basil. The place in which they live is waterless and inaccessible, but has olives from which they gain some consolation.

 
Abruzzo is southern Italy in genetics despite it's central location geographically.

It is also most definitely southeast of Toscana, as indeed is Molise. I've seen a lot of Greeks also plot due east of Campania.
 
Abruzzo is southern Italy in genetics despite it's central location geographically.

It is also most definitely southeast of Toscana, as indeed is Molise. I've seen a lot of Greeks also plot due east of Campania.

I know. They are slightly more northern shifted version of Apulians.
 
I know. They are slightly more northern shifted version of Apulians.

Dean Martin's (Dino Paulo Crocetti) ancestors were from Abruzzo. As was the famous American of Italian ancestry Boxer Rocky Marciano (Paternal side, Maternal was from Naples). They are as Angela noted well within the Southern Italian/Sicilian genetic cluster in all PCA plots. My Dodecad 12B-updated and K13_updated, while 1 example, I think supports that.

Top 25 Dodecad 12B updated samples

Distance to:PalermoTrapani_ANCESTRY
3.55695094Italian_Campania
3.65477770Italian_Molise
3.83109645Italian_Abruzzo
4.03399306Italian_Sicily
4.70940548Italian_Basilicata
5.85703850Italian_Calabria
6.29590343Italian_Apulia
6.47651913Ashkenazi_Jews
7.04365275Italian_Marche
7.18862991Moldovan_Jewish
7.65706210Italian_Lazio
7.90179726Greek_Lemnos
8.92806810Italian_Umbria
8.92854971Italian_Jews
9.03374230Greek_Foca
9.04327927Greek_Athens
9.04979005Greek_Central
9.35666073Greek_Fournoi
9.70223686Greek_Izmir
10.45749014Italian_Romagna
10.57145212Greek_Crete
10.81484165Greek_Peloponnese
11.64560432Sephardic_Jews
11.69138999Greek_Icaria
11.84918563Albanian


Top 25 K13-Updated samples

Distance to:PalermoTrapani_ANCESTRY
4.24299423Italian_Sicily
4.27984813Italian_Molise
4.53094913Italian_Apulia
4.54467821Italian_Abruzzo
5.01440924Italian_Campania
5.36017724Italian_Basilicata
6.03359760Malta
6.68697989Italian_Calabria
6.81370677Greek_Cyclades
8.11038840Greek_Ionia
8.34559764Greek_North_Aegean
8.46651050Greek_Athens
8.55354313Italian_Marche
8.61175360Italian_Lazio
8.68674277Greek_Andros_Island
9.16282162Greek_Western-Thrace
9.23201495Ashkenazi
9.47518338Greek_Central
9.66857280Italian_Umbria
9.72998972Moroccan_Jew
9.77843546Moldova_Jewish
10.06554519Greek_Crete
10.07475062Greek_Symi_Island
10.19252177Italian_Jewish
10.65898213Italian_Romagna

 
This is an interesting finding/argument from the Roman Balkans IA study, about modeling mainland Greeks:5C805396-5D4F-4168-84A0-98FCBDF67391.jpg
 
Matadworf, I know "East Med" is a term long used on anthrofora, but it's meaningless, and therefore not used by academicians. If you mean Aegean or Anatolian Bronze Age, that would be closer to the reality.

Of all Greeks, Deep Maniots, Tsakonians, and Aegean Islanders are closest to their illustrious ancestors, the Bronze Age, Iron Age and Classical Era Greeks, because their isolation means they were less impacted by the Slavic migrations.

I've never seen Greeks plot as far north as the Marche. The furthest north I've seen them is southeast of Tuscany, and those were Thessalonians; the rest plotted east of Central Italian and further south, like Campania, Apulia, etc.

Here's my G25 modern pop averages comparison:
Distance to:Anthony_C_scaled
0.02160412Greek_Thessaly
0.02469069Greek_Macedonia
0.02520784Greek_Peloponnese
0.02524797Albanian
0.02790092Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.02822096Italian_Marche
0.03157852Italian_Molise
0.03171735Greek_Laconia
0.03180298Rumelia_East
0.03232864Italian_Tuscany
0.03262542Italian_Umbria
0.03317036Greek_Izmir
0.03323048Italian_Abruzzo
0.03359731Italian_Apulia
0.03534251Italian_Lazio
0.03578774Italian_Piedmont
0.03702118Italian_Basilicata
0.03863932Swiss_Italian
0.03958714Sicilian_East
0.04088870Ukrainian_Zhytomyr_o
0.04151624French_Corsica
0.04157102Italian_Campania
0.04170805Italian_Liguria
0.04175904Sicilian_West
0.04204006Italian_Lombardy

 

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