Hun sample finds in Kazakstan

Tukish is Altaic or 'Turkic' , while Hungarian is Uralic or 'Ugric'. If Turkic is from the Caucasus then the Mongolian langauge is also originally from the Caucasus.

Altaic and Uralic belong to the same group and are both 'Mongoloid'




image2.gif








 
Do you really think that the above people adopted the tradition of just the other people as a fashion like now? If you think so, there is nothing I can do say.

I did not say it occurred like today modes (changing every year or almost); but pre-Celtic/Celtic/latinized people of Gallo-Romania adopted Germanic (>Frankish and others) names without thay speak Germanic language, and in an overwhelming way. Would you some examples? It's not the first time a pop adopted foreign habits even when HATING the dominant pop! Human people are like that as a whole (tears).
 
What do you think when people of diverse culture background are adopting nazi fashions spite their lack of common origin (I recall the Nazi's adopted "roman" fashions spite their supposed "pure >Germanic" inspiration! (without any political aim here, only "anthropology")
 
I did not say it occurred like today modes (changing every year or almost); but pre-Celtic/Celtic/latinized people of Gallo-Romania adopted Germanic (>Frankish and others) names without thay speak Germanic language, and in an overwhelming way. Would you some examples? It's not the first time a pop adopted foreign habits even when HATING the dominant pop! Human people are like that as a whole (tears).
That is true, but that traditon was changed when the dominant one became weak.
We are talking about braid hairstlye culture in East Europe, which had been kept until 19 century. It meant that the hairstyles last at least 1,000years or soemtimes 2,000 years.
So I said that original descendant has kept their tradition, which meant ethnic mix.
See the R1a1 and Q1a2 in altai, where they were always together from Neolithic to Hun.
Individuals from Lokomotiv and Shamanka II were found to possess haplogroups K, R1a1 and C3, and individuals from Ust’-Ida and Kurma XI were found to belong to haplogroups Q, K and unidentified SNP (L914). For those individuals belonging to haplogroup Q, further experimentation to examine sub-haplogroups of Q revealed that these individuals belong to sub-haplogroup Q1a3

Bronze mongolia:
In the same way, the patrilineal gene pool revealed the presence of different haplogroups (Q1a2a1-L54, R1a1a1b2-Z93 and C)

Hun
1) Egin Gol river valley cemetery in Mongolia
2) Duurling Nars cemetery in Mongolia
3) Barköl cemetery in Xinjiang, China
4) Birlik cemetery in Kazakhstan


Paternal lineages:

East Asian Y-DNA haplogroups (ca. 82%):

Haplo C2e - 3
Haplo C2 - 7
Haplo C - 1
Haplo Q1a2 - 3
Haplo Q1a3a - 3

Haplo Q1b - 1
Haplo N1c-Tat - 3
Haplo O3a2 - 1

West Eurasian Y-DNA haplogroups (ca. 18%):

Haplo R1a - 3
Haplo R1b - 1
Haplo I2c - 1

And scythian were archaeologically altai natives also, having drinking cup of human skull like american indian. And East scythian had bird hair style, and west one shaving their head except one long braid, which were also american Indian customs. This R1a people attacked East Europe.
And the R1a Hun (1 or 4 braids), avar(2 braids), Bulgar(1 braid) and magyar(3 braids). Seems like they kept american indian traditions. And this kind of tradition was recently in East Europe.

Can you think it was adopted without ethnic mix? Of course there would be some people to adopt it w/o ethnic mix, who would not keep it for a long time.

Hun(looks like 4 braids)
xiongnu_1500-year-old.jpg


Avar
10404658865_f05445d91f_o.jpg
 
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Don't think so. If that is the case than Chinese (Cantonese & Madarin) is also from the Caucasus.

Turkic is a 'Mongoloid' language and related to Chisese languages. Original Turks were 'Mongoloid' people / race from Altai/Baikal area/region.

So Turkic language, like Chinese, is originally from the EASTERN Eurasia..​

Sumerians were 'Iranid' (ARYAN) and NOT 'Armenoid'.

The term Mongoloid is indeed equal to the Eastern Eurasian skull type, however the the medieval Mongol language is a product of the earlier Turk language. And the majority of the Turks/Huns(and the Turk language) belonged to the Western Eurasian skull type. Another note is the fact that the oldest kurgans are found in the Kura Araxes culture (Urmia region), this burial type is associated with the medieval Huns, which means that the ancestors of the Huns should have came from the Urmia region. As far as we know the Sumerian language is an
agglutinative language which is equal to Altaic/Dravidian/Uralic type of languages. The Sumerian language is a non-Indo-European(non-Aryan) and non-Semitic language. The Sumerians are the descendants of the Ubaid culture people, and several archaeological studies have proven that the Ubaid culture people are the same as the Kura Araxes culture people. The Sumerian tribe names like "Turukku"(Turukkaeans) and "Subar" indicate that the language of Kura Araxes - Sumerian people is a Proto Turk language.


 



The term Mongoloid is indeed equal to the Eastern Eurasian skull type, however the the medieval Mongol language is a product of the earlier Turk language. And the majority of the Turks/Huns(and the Turk language) belonged to the Western Eurasian skull type. Another note is the fact that the oldest kurgans are found in the Kura Araxes culture (Urmia region), this burial type is associated with the medieval Huns, which means that the ancestors of the Huns should have came from the Urmia region. As far as we know the Sumerian language is an
agglutinative language which is equal to Altaic/Dravidian/Uralic type of languages. The Sumerian language is a non-Indo-European(non-Aryan) and non-Semitic language. The Sumerians are the descendants of the Ubaid culture people, and several archaeological studies have proven that the Ubaid culture people are the same as the Kura Araxes culture people. The Sumerian tribe names like "Turukku"(Turukkaeans) and "Subar" indicate that the language of Kura Araxes - Sumerian people is a Proto Turk language.

As far as I know, the most important horse installments are bit (botai culture) and stirrup. I think the idea regarding two installments could be created in steppe area by riding a hose for thousand years. It would be difficult to get the ideas thru trial and error processes in mountain area. It was historically said that the Hun used the stirrup.
And I always ask why the oldest kurgan is over there, b/c the Kurgan like pit grave is closely related with pit-house, siberian culture. So I think ANE factors in middle East also has something to do with the following green pottery migration from lake baikal. And language also.
Capture.png


pit-house In Canada
pithouse.jpg
 



The term Mongoloid is indeed equal to the Eastern Eurasian skull type, however the the medieval Mongol language is a product of the earlier Turk language. And the majority of the Turks/Huns(and the Turk language) belonged to the Western Eurasian skull type. Another note is the fact that the oldest kurgans are found in the Kura Araxes culture (Urmia region), this burial type is associated with the medieval Huns, which means that the ancestors of the Huns should have came from the Urmia region. As far as we know the Sumerian language is an
agglutinative language which is equal to Altaic/Dravidian/Uralic type of languages. The Sumerian language is a non-Indo-European(non-Aryan) and non-Semitic language. The Sumerians are the descendants of the Ubaid culture people, and several archaeological studies have proven that the Ubaid culture people are the same as the Kura Araxes culture people. The Sumerian tribe names like "Turukku"(Turukkaeans) and "Subar" indicate that the language of Kura Araxes - Sumerian people is a Proto Turk language.
You don't get me. Turkic IS an eastern Eurastiatic language. It has nothing to do with West Asia or Mesopotamia or Iran. Turkic is much closer to other east Eurasian languages. Turkic is part of that family.

Yeah, I do agree with you that Ubaid culture and advanced (Aryan) cultures in the Caucasus were simillar to each other. Why? Becasue all those advanced 'Aryan' cultures had their roots in the Iranian Plateau. Those people were WEST Asian people and were not from the eastern Eurasia.

Sumerians language is OLDER than PIE. When Sumerian came into the existence there was no such thing as PIE in the Steppes. Sumerian language was a WEST Asian language and was not from the eastern Eurasia
. While Turkic is originally from the eastern Eurasia, because ALL relatives of Turkic language live in the eastern Eurasia.

Turkic is a 'Mongoloid' language in grammar, vocabulary and pronunciation. It is a scientific FACT and nobody can change this fact! People should be not ashamed of their roots, but be proud of their roots and embrace it. When people find peace with themselves accept their own roots and respect their own ancestors they are much more successful in the lives. We are all human, we are all the same at the end of the day.

That's why I can't get along with people who don't have peace, have inferiotiy complex, have hidden agenda and are trying to twist their own history. They will FAIL big time, history can't be change. It is part of our DNA. You can fool human societies, you can fool yourself, but you can't fool human DNA (nature) or even GOD!
 
And I always ask why the oldest kurgan is over there, b/c the Kurgan like pit grave is closely related with pit-house, siberian culture. So I think ANE factors in middle East also has something to do with the following green pottery migration from lake baikal.
As far as I know the oldest 'Kurgans' have been found in West Asia.

As far as I know the oldest known 'sky burials' (burial = kurgan) is Göbekli Tepé.

Göbekli Tepé kurgan is at least 9000 years old! That is 7,000bp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Göbekli_Tepe



Also, HUGE Kurgans in Trialeti region, Georgia. Equal to the age of the oldest Egyptian pyramids (Egyptian pyramids = kurgans). Trialeti KURGANS were similar to much later late Indo-European kurgans in the Steppes.

 
extremely interesting. HUGE stone round Kurgan in Trialeti region, Georgia (7:28mins in video) is almost same as round pyramid in mexico:

In a suburb of Mexico City sits a circular pyramid, partially covered by a lava field from the Xitle volcano. The pyramid of Cuicuilco rises to no more than 18 meters in height, though measures 120 meters in diameter. Excavated for the first time by Mexican archaeologist Manuel Gamio in 1917, the original height is estimated to have been 27 meters.



cuilcuilco.jpg

http://www.ancient-wisdom.com/pyramids.htm

another round pyramid in mexico
http://calixtlahuaca.blogspot.ca/2007/04/calixtlahuaca-pyramids-aztec-imposition.html
 
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Three main Xiongnu Y hgs were C, Q and N. R was small minority.

Here are ancient DNA samples of Xiongnu/Hunnu haplogroups:

Places of origin of samples (four graveyards, not just one):

1) Egin Gol river valley cemetery in Mongolia
2) Duurling Nars cemetery in Mongolia
3) Barköl cemetery in Xinjiang, China
4) Birlik cemetery in Kazakhstan


Paternal lineages:

East Asian Y-DNA haplogroups (ca. 82%):

Haplo C2e - 3
Haplo C2 - 7
Haplo C - 1
Haplo Q1a2 - 3
Haplo Q1a3a - 3
Haplo Q1b - 1
Haplo N1c-Tat - 3
Haplo O3a2 - 1

West Eurasian Y-DNA haplogroups (ca. 18%):

Haplo R1a - 3
Haplo R1b - 1
Haplo I2c - 1

Maternal lineages:

East Asian mtDNA haplogroups (ca. 83%):

Haplo D4 - 19
Haplo D4o1 - 9
Haplo D5a - 1
Haplo D5 - 1
Haplo C - 4
Haplo C4a1 - 1
Haplo C5 - 1
Haplo F1b - 4
Haplo G2a - 1
Haplo G2 - 1
Haplo B4 - 1

Uncertain origin mtDNA haplogroups (ca. 3%):

Haplo M - 2

West Eurasian mtDNA haplogroups (ca. 14%):

Haplo U5a1a - 2
Haplo U2e1 - 1
Haplo U2 - 1
Haplo J1 - 2
Haplo H - 1

I never heard about an R1b male sample in Huns... Is it possible to know the source and the paper from where the info comes from?
 
You don't get me. Turkic IS an eastern Eurastiatic language. It has nothing to do with West Asia or Mesopotamia or Iran. Turkic is much closer to other east Eurasian languages. Turkic is part of that family.

Yeah, I do agree with you that Ubaid culture and advanced (Aryan) cultures in the Caucasus were simillar to each other. Why? Becasue all those advanced 'Aryan' cultures had their roots in the Iranian Plateau. Those people were WEST Asian people and were not from the eastern Eurasia.

Sumerians language is OLDER than PIE. When Sumerian came into the existence there was no such thing as PIE in the Steppes. Sumerian language was a WEST Asian language and was not from the eastern Eurasia
. While Turkic is originally from the eastern Eurasia, because ALL relatives of Turkic language live in the eastern Eurasia.

Turkic is a 'Mongoloid' language in grammar, vocabulary and pronunciation. It is a scientific FACT and nobody can change this fact! People should be not ashamed of their roots, but be proud of their roots and embrace it. When people find peace with themselves accept their own roots and respect their own ancestors they are much more successful in the lives. We are all human, we are all the same at the end of the day.

That's why I can't get along with people who don't have peace, have inferiotiy complex, have hidden agenda and are trying to twist their own history. They will FAIL big time, history can't be change. It is part of our DNA. You can fool human societies, you can fool yourself, but you can't fool human DNA (nature) or even GOD!

Sino-Tibetian(Eastern Eurasian) and Turk languages(Western Eurasian) have no resemblance with each other, totally different types of languages. The term "Mongol" is only appeared in the 12th century AD, and the modern Mongol language is not equal to the medieval Mongols, who were just a tribe of the Turks. The Eastern Eurasian element within the modern Mongols have adopted the Turk language when Turkish tribes moved eastward in Eurasia. Think about it, why are the major groups of the modern Turks located in Western Eurasian regions? They did not fall from the sky into these regions. The Turkish element within the Japanese language is also very minimal, related to the migration of a small group of Huns. So, the fact is that the Turks migrated from Western Eurasian regions(which is their homeland) to Eastern Eurasian regions. How can we explain the fact that the archaeological and anthropological cultures of the Huns, Sarmatians and Pazyryk culture people are exactly the same? How can we explain the major Altaic/Dravidian element within the Sumerian language? How can we explain the tribe name "Turukku" within the Sumerians? It all ties up to the fact that the Proto Turks originated within the regions between the Urmia Region(Southern Caucasia) and Mesopotamia(reaching from Eastern Anatolia until the Levant Region).
 
Sino-Tibetian(Eastern Eurasian) and Turk languages(Western Eurasian) have no resemblance with each other, totally different types of languages. The term "Mongol" is only appeared in the 12th century AD, and the modern Mongol language is not equal to the medieval Mongols, who were just a tribe of the Turks. The Eastern Eurasian element within the modern Mongols have adopted the Turk language when Turkish tribes moved eastward in Eurasia. Think about it, why are the major groups of the modern Turks located in Western Eurasian regions? They did not fall from the sky into these regions. The Turkish element within the Japanese language is also very minimal, related to the migration of a small group of Huns. So, the fact is that the Turks migrated from Western Eurasian regions(which is their homeland) to Eastern Eurasian regions. How can we explain the fact that the archaeological and anthropological cultures of the Huns, Sarmatians and Pazyryk culture people are exactly the same? How can we explain the major Altaic/Dravidian element within the Sumerian language? How can we explain the tribe name "Turukku" within the Sumerians? It all ties up to the fact that the Proto Turks originated within the regions between the Urmia Region(Southern Caucasia) and Mesopotamia(reaching from Eastern Anatolia until the Levant Region).
Hahaha, now Turks are native to Kurdistan, hahaha?

This ridiculous fantasy is not even worth another minute of my precious time. I'm not going to play your games and if you think I'm going to fall in your trap, then you are making a big mistake. I have seen this coming from the very beginning. I'm done with you. Bye bye.

Not me, nor my opinion, everybody has an opnion. Opnions are useless, even brain dead people have one, but the ACADEMIA doesn't agree with you. If you have something usefull and scientific to say just write an academic paper or a book and try to persuade the minds of the establsihed scientists. It is up to you to prove the academia wrong. I have nothing to do with it. And since I'm not a Turk, nor Mongoloid, I'm not interested in Turkic or Mongoloid history in general.


" Turkic languages, group of closely related languages that form a subfamily of the Altaic languages. The Turkic languages show close similarities to each other in phonology, morphology, and syntax, though Chuvash, Khalaj, and Sakha differ considerably from the rest. The earliest linguistic records are Old Turkic inscriptions, found near the Orhon River in Mongolia and the Yenisey River valley in south-central Russia, which date from the 8th century "

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Turkic-languages


Just stop ridiculing the Turks. Have a nice day!
 
Hahaha, now Turks are native to Kurdistan, hahaha?

This ridiculous fantasy is not even worth another minute of my precious time. I'm not going to play your games and if you think I'm going to fall in your trap, then you are making a big mistake. I have seen this coming from the very beginning. I'm done with you. Bye bye.

Not me, nor my opinion, everybody has an opnion. Opnions are useless, even brain dead people have one, but the ACADEMIA doesn't agree with you. If you have something usefull and scientific to say just write an academic paper or a book and try to persuade the minds of the establsihed scientists. It is up to you to prove the academia wrong. I have nothing to do with it. And since I'm not a Turk, nor Mongoloid, I'm not interested in Turkic or Mongoloid history in general.

Just stop ridiculing the Turks. Have a nice day!

Thanks for the academical reply, i appreciate it very much.
 
Three main Xiongnu Y hgs were C, Q and N. R was small minority.

Here are ancient DNA samples of Xiongnu/Hunnu haplogroups:

Places of origin of samples (four graveyards, not just one):

1) Egin Gol river valley cemetery in Mongolia
2) Duurling Nars cemetery in Mongolia
3) Barköl cemetery in Xinjiang, China
4) Birlik cemetery in Kazakhstan


Paternal lineages:

East Asian Y-DNA haplogroups (ca. 82%):

Haplo C2e - 3
Haplo C2 - 7
Haplo C - 1
Haplo Q1a2 - 3
Haplo Q1a3a - 3
Haplo Q1b - 1
Haplo N1c-Tat - 3
Haplo O3a2 - 1

West Eurasian Y-DNA haplogroups (ca. 18%):

Haplo R1a - 3
Haplo R1b - 1
Haplo I2c - 1

Maternal lineages:

East Asian mtDNA haplogroups (ca. 83%):

Haplo D4 - 19
Haplo D4o1 - 9
Haplo D5a - 1
Haplo D5 - 1
Haplo C - 4
Haplo C4a1 - 1
Haplo C5 - 1
Haplo F1b - 4
Haplo G2a - 1
Haplo G2 - 1
Haplo B4 - 1

Uncertain origin mtDNA haplogroups (ca. 3%):

Haplo M - 2

West Eurasian mtDNA haplogroups (ca. 14%):

Haplo U5a1a - 2
Haplo U2e1 - 1
Haplo U2 - 1
Haplo J1 - 2
Haplo H - 1

Sorry to ask Tomenable, but which grave had I2c? Definitely not a haplogroup I'd expect amongst the huns. Actually, it would be cool if you link to the article mentioning these haplogroups.
 
Sino-Tibetian(Eastern Eurasian) and Turk languages(Western Eurasian) have no resemblance with each other, totally different types of languages. The term "Mongol" is only appeared in the 12th century AD, and the modern Mongol language is not equal to the medieval Mongols, who were just a tribe of the Turks. The Eastern Eurasian element within the modern Mongols have adopted the Turk language when Turkish tribes moved eastward in Eurasia. Think about it, why are the major groups of the modern Turks located in Western Eurasian regions? They did not fall from the sky into these regions. The Turkish element within the Japanese language is also very minimal, related to the migration of a small group of Huns. So, the fact is that the Turks migrated from Western Eurasian regions(which is their homeland) to Eastern Eurasian regions. How can we explain the fact that the archaeological and anthropological cultures of the Huns, Sarmatians and Pazyryk culture people are exactly the same? How can we explain the major Altaic/Dravidian element within the Sumerian language? How can we explain the tribe name "Turukku" within the Sumerians? It all ties up to the fact that the Proto Turks originated within the regions between the Urmia Region(Southern Caucasia) and Mesopotamia(reaching from Eastern Anatolia until the Levant Region).

Goga said:
Hahaha, now Turks are native to Kurdistan, hahaha?

This ridiculous fantasy is not even worth another minute of my precious time. I'm not going to play your games and if you think I'm going to fall in your trap, then you are making a big mistake. I have seen this coming from the very beginning. I'm done with you. Bye bye.

Not me, nor my opinion, everybody has an opnion. Opnions are useless, even brain dead people have one, but the ACADEMIA doesn't agree with you. If you have something usefull and scientific to say just write an academic paper or a book and try to persuade the minds of the establsihed scientists. It is up to you to prove the academia wrong. I have nothing to do with it. And since I'm not a Turk, nor Mongoloid, I'm not interested in Turkic or Mongoloid history in general.


" Turkic languages, group of closely related languages that form a subfamily of the Altaic languages. The Turkic languages show close similarities to each other in phonology, morphology, and syntax, though Chuvash, Khalaj, and Sakha differ considerably from the rest. The earliest linguistic records are Old Turkic inscriptions, found near the Orhon River in Mongolia and the Yenisey River valley in south-central Russia, which date from the 8th century "

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Turkic-languages


Just stop ridiculing the Turks. Have a nice day!

:LOL::LOL:


Proto-Euphrato-Altaic is gaining supporters every day. They would be the ancestors of BMAC.
 
Where did you take this languauge tree? What surprises me is that "magyar" = Hungarian appears as a branch of turkic

I guess, lingustic and historic facts were mixed in that tree. It should be Cuman language.

Is there any clear effect of Cuman language in the modern Hungarian language?
 
West Old Turkic: Turkic Loanwords in Hungarian

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13577601-west-old-turkic

The Hungarian language is the most important source for reconstructing the West Old Turkic language spoken west of the Ural in the 5th-12th centuries. The study by Árpád Berta and András Róna-Tas deals with the etymology of about 500 Hungarian words which are or may be of Old Turkic, in some cases of Middle Turkic origin. The Hungarian-Turkic contacts began in the 5th

http://www.swedishcollegium.se/pdf/newpubl_ronatas_berta.pdf





 
Three main Xiongnu Y hgs were C, Q and N. R was small minority.

Here are ancient DNA samples of Xiongnu/Hunnu haplogroups:

Places of origin of samples (four graveyards, not just one):

1) Egin Gol river valley cemetery in Mongolia
2) Duurling Nars cemetery in Mongolia
3) Barköl cemetery in Xinjiang, China
4) Birlik cemetery in Kazakhstan


Paternal lineages:

East Asian Y-DNA haplogroups (ca. 82%):

Haplo C2e - 3
Haplo C2 - 7
Haplo C - 1
Haplo Q1a2 - 3
Haplo Q1a3a - 3
Haplo Q1b - 1
Haplo N1c-Tat - 3
Haplo O3a2 - 1

West Eurasian Y-DNA haplogroups (ca. 18%):

Haplo R1a - 3
Haplo R1b - 1
Haplo I2c - 1

Maternal lineages:

East Asian mtDNA haplogroups (ca. 83%):

Haplo D4 - 19
Haplo D4o1 - 9
Haplo D5a - 1
Haplo D5 - 1
Haplo C - 4
Haplo C4a1 - 1
Haplo C5 - 1
Haplo F1b - 4
Haplo G2a - 1
Haplo G2 - 1
Haplo B4 - 1

Uncertain origin mtDNA haplogroups (ca. 3%):

Haplo M - 2

West Eurasian mtDNA haplogroups (ca. 14%):

Haplo U5a1a - 2
Haplo U2e1 - 1
Haplo U2 - 1
Haplo J1 - 2
Haplo H - 1

Xiungnu I2c ??? I'm so turned on by this.

Why haven't I heard about this before? Tomenable please, can you provide the source for this finding?
 

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