Hun sample finds in Kazakstan

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Friday, November 25, 2016

First news of Hunnic and Botai aDNA



According to this Kazakh press report, remains from an elite Hunnic burial in what is now Hungary belonged to Y-chromosome haplogroup L and mitochondrial (mtDNA) haplogroup D4j12.
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and
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http://www.np.kz/hotnewstop/20716-ka...nk-proekt.html

The article in Russian, describes Kazakhstan DNA project. Among other things, there is an interview with Leyla Jansugurova, head of Institute of General Genetics of Kazakhstan. Here is the slightly edited automatic translation of the part of interview, where she speaks about aDNA(UPD: As far as I know, none of these results is published):

Paleogenetics in Kazakhstan

- Did this successful experience of collaborative interdisciplinary research by geneticists and historians continue?

- Yes. Moreover, on the basis of our Institute of General genetics and Cytology in cooperation with the Institute of archaeology named after A. Kh. Margulan in 2014, the laboratory of population genetics was created. Its goal is to study the genetic structure of modern populations of Kazakhstan and determination of genetic relationships with the ancient nomadic tribes of Central Asia. To start we have compiled a directory of ancient human skeletal remains and important archaeological finds in Kazakhstan, related to the ethnogenesis of the Kazakhs and available for paleogenetics research.


- I want to note that DNA analysis of bone remains from ancient graves very complicated and expensive method. It requires high tech equipment, supersterility of the experiment and staff development. Therefore, the selection of the bone material is very important. At first, we concentrated on artifacts representing ancient periods of the settlement of the territory of Kazakhstan and available for DNA analysis: it is a human skull from the settlement of Botai in Northern Kazakhstan, the skeleton of the Hun period from the natural history Museum (Budapest) and the remains of the so-called Urdzhar Princess. As you know, in 2014, in Urdzhar district of East Kazakhstan region in one of the kurgans, in a zone of reconstruction of the road Taskesken - Bakta, was found undisturbed burial of women of the Saka period. Under the kurgan in a stone sarcophagus there were remains of a young woman of noble birth. Analysis of ancient DNA showed that the age of burial - III-IV century BC, while mtDNA haplogroup of Urdzhar Princess - D4o. Haplogroup belongs to the “Asian branch”, who left a wide trail in the Eastern Altai, Siberia, the far North of Eurasia and among the indigenous population of America. The mother of the founder of this haplogroup lived between 9300 - 18 400 years ago in Northern Asia.

As for the ancient Hun from Hungary, dated to the middle third of the V century, the type of burial and his outfit showed that this young man belonged to the Hun elite and may have been related by the origin to the ancient Turkic tribes of Kazakhstan. DNA analysis of an ancient Hun of the skeleton determined the haplogroup L of Y-chromosome and mtDNA D4j12, which is evidence of the Asian origin of the paternal and maternal lines of this ancient find from Europe. And, what is most interesting: the type of the Y-chromosome (L-haplogroup) was found among Kazakh tribe of Argyns!

Exploring the skull from Botai, we found that it was a man, his mtDNA haplogroup is K1b2, which is of Eastern European origin and is very common in the modern population of Western Europe and America.
 
Ancient Hunnic chieftain had Y-DNA haplogroup L (source in Russian):

http://www.np.kz/hotnewstop/20716-kazahstanskiy-dnk-proekt.html

(...) As for the ancient Hun from Hungary, dated to the middle third of the V century, the type of burial and his outfit showed that this young man belonged to the Hun elite and may have been related by the origin to the ancient Turkic tribes of Kazakhstan. DNA analysis of an ancient Hun of the skeleton determined the haplogroup L of Y-chromosome and mtDNA D4j12, which is evidence of the Asian origin of the paternal and maternal lines of this ancient find from Europe. And, what is most interesting: the type of the Y-chromosome (L-haplogroup) was found among Kazakh tribe of Argyns!

Exploring the skull from Botai, we found that it was a man, his mtDNA haplogroup is K1b2, which is of Eastern European origin and is very common in the modern population of Western Europe and America.

- Most interesting - his Y chromosome.

- Unfortunately, haplogroup on the Y-chromosome, we did not have time to identify. We ran out of expensive reagents and the money allocated for research. In addition, we have assembled a genetic Bank that represents the current population of Kazakhstan is 1,524 with a detailed ancestry tree(shezhere), so the ethnic picture of the present, we can compare with the ancient finds. This is something we will work on.

Subclades of Y-DNA haplogroup L today:

http://i.imgur.com/TphXqAe.jpg

TphXqAe.jpg
 
Thanks Tomenable
 
What time period we are talking about?
 
What was his subclade, though? Because Huns appear in Europe in the 4th century AD supposedly. L1b could have been there much earlier.
 
I mean what I said. Since L1b exists all over Europe pretty much, if it was L1b it could have been 'native' (in the sense that it could have been there much earlier than the 4th century AD). If it was L1c or L1a most likely not.
 
As I wrote in the past, the Huns were originally an East Iranic tribe known as far back as in the Avesta as Xiiaona, they lived in the region later known as Bactria and Transoxania.

With time passing other tribes joined the Huns. And the Huns known during the Roman times where a large confederation of the original Huns (Xionites) with Mongol and Turkic tribes. So no wonder that we find West_South_Central Asian yDNA and East Eurasian mtDNA among their ranks. Which is actually typical of the trend we see in Central Asia even today. What is kinda weird if we go by the assumption thrown around that the language was brought by the paternal ancestors. In this special case however it seems females had much bigger influence on it as we think.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xionites
 
As I wrote in the past, the Huns were originally an East Iranic tribe known as far back as in the Avesta as Xiiaona, they lived in the region later known as Bactria and Transoxania.

With time passing other tribes joined the Huns. And the Huns known during the Roman times where a large confederation of the original Huns (Xionites) with Mongol and Turkic tribes. So no wonder that we find West_South_Central Asian yDNA and East Eurasian mtDNA among their ranks. Which is actually typical of the trend we see in Central Asia even today. What is kinda weird if we go by the assumption thrown around that the language was brought by the paternal ancestors. In this special case however it seems females had much bigger influence on it as we think.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xionites
Can you post a primary source?
 
just a general remark of relative worth: I don't rely too much in this concept of "maternal" languages, it's to say the transmission by females very often from vainquished people. Personal thought only.
 
One of American indian hairstyle:
In Eastern tribes like the Lenape and Iroquois tribes, most warriors shaved their heads except for a scalplock (a single lock of hair on the crown of their head)

Indo Aryan Hairstyle
sikhh.jpg

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...-IE-language-start/page10?p=494286#post494286

Scythian hairstyle
Capture.png

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...-IE-language-start/page10?p=494286#post494286

Hun was not exceptional at all:
Capture.png

https://archive.org/stream/cu31924082470273#page/n167/mode/2up
 
concerning hairs modes, I recall barbarian tribes (like us today) changed more than a time their hair fashion.
And sometimes an ethnic group under political domination of another one, adopted the modes of this last one, not only for hair cut, but also until head (skull) deformation. So the ethnicity of some modes cannot always be too easily established, not in every case.
 
concerning hairs modes, I recall barbarian tribes (like us today) changed more than a time their hair fashion.
And sometimes an ethnic group under political domination of another one, adopted the modes of this last one, not only for hair cut, but also until head (skull) deformation. So the ethnicity of some modes cannot always be too easily established, not in every case.

Scythian had elongated skull also, which meant “sun” in shamanism.
As far as I know, hairstyle was not a fashion, but a tradition to nomad people. So the original descendants kept their tradition, I think.
Think about the hairstyle of Magyar who shaved their heads except three long braids. This tradition has been kept until 19 century in East Europe.
https://books.google.ca/books?id=dvV...20long&f=false

Moreover, I think polish Sarmatianism from 16c to 18c was also the same case.

Traditional Slavic Hair Styles:
525_obr.jpg


Maybe Yazidi man with plaited hair. Northern Iraq(I am not sure):
abc.jpg


same hair style in american indian:
http://imageenvision.com/photo/7058-mandan-native-american-man-with-braids-spotted-bull-by-jvpd
 
I am planning to conduct such a study on more necropolises found in Hungary, Ukraine and Bulgaria. But no funding so far.
 
Scythian had elongated skull also, which meant “sun” in shamanism.
As far as I know, hairstyle was not a fashion, but a tradition to nomad people. So the original descendants kept their tradition, I think.
Think about the hairstyle of Magyar who shaved their heads except three long braids. This tradition has been kept until 19 century in East Europe.
https://books.google.ca/books?id=dvV...20long&f=false

Moreover, I think polish Sarmatianism from 16c to 18c was also the same case.

Traditional Slavic Hair Styles:
525_obr.jpg


Maybe Yazidi man with plaited hair. Northern Iraq(I am not sure):
abc.jpg

Yes is a Yezidi Kurd.
 
As I wrote in the past, the Huns were originally an East Iranic tribe known as far back as in the Avesta as Xiiaona, they lived in the region later known as Bactria and Transoxania.

With time passing other tribes joined the Huns. And the Huns known during the Roman times where a large confederation of the original Huns (Xionites) with Mongol and Turkic tribes. So no wonder that we find West_South_Central Asian yDNA and East Eurasian mtDNA among their ranks. Which is actually typical of the trend we see in Central Asia even today. What is kinda weird if we go by the assumption thrown around that the language was brought by the paternal ancestors. In this special case however it seems females had much bigger influence on it as we think.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xionites


Wait wait wait, hold-up hod-up hud-up

The "Hunnic migrations" consisted of a large confederation of tribes, especially in the end, but the Huns themselves, "original Huns", were likely Altaic speaking, probably Turkic.
 
Wait wait wait, hold-up hod-up hud-up

The "Hunnic migrations" consisted of a large confederation of tribes, especially in the end, but the Huns themselves, "original Huns", were likely Altaic speaking, probably Turkic.



A number of people have concluded that the Huns spoke a Yeniseian language or even an Iranian language. A study of a Xiongnu graveyard found that nearly half the Y hgs were R and Q (the rest were C), suggesting they descended from a Okunevo or Karasuk people that had absorbed an Altaic population in Mongolia.
 

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