I2a-Din came to the Balkans and Dinaric Alps with the Thracians, Dacians & Illyrians

[Fustan]

No, because this is another disinformation that Garrick the Serb is trying to sneak in, just like he was trying to do here.

Sample I5236, which he is talking about, could not have been the "forefather" of I-CTS10228 because he is negative for I-M423 where I-CTS10228 stems from. He is either some extinct I-P37 or possibly I-M26, which is the "Sardinian" branch and split during the Paleolithic.

What he doesn't tell you is that in the same area (Iron Gates, Serbia) they found R1b's from the Mesolithic (samples I5237, I5240). So by his logic those R1b's are the "forefathers" of all current Balkan R1b's. However, this is not true either, as they are negative for R1b-M269, where Balkan R1b stems from. (Source).

Wow, thanks for this post! Garrick almost fooled me again, he's very sneaky and seems to try to trick people all the time!

Again, very informative post as always Trojet.

 

[Megalophias]

Also ancient I2a1-P37 is found all over Europe, right back to Bichon from Switzerland, who is over 13 000 years old. Also Loschbour from Luxembourg, Motala from Sweden, Latvian hunter-gatherers, western European Neolithic farmers.

 

[gyms]

[h=3]Negligible genetic flow in Slavic expansion to the Balcans[/h]
http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.hu/2015/09/negligible-genetic-flow-in-slavic.html

 

[Fatherland]

No, because this is another disinformation that Garrick the Serb is trying to sneak in, just like he was trying to do here.

Sample I5236, which he is talking about, could not have been the "forefather" of I-CTS10228 because he is negative for I-M423 where I-CTS10228 stems from. He is either some extinct I-P37 or possibly I-M26, which is the "Sardinian" branch and split during the Paleolithic.

What he doesn't tell you is that in the same area (Iron Gates, Serbia) they found R1b's from the Mesolithic (samples I5237, I5240). So by his logic those R1b's are the "forefathers" of all current Balkan R1b's. However, this is not true either, as they are negative for R1b-M269, where Balkan R1b stems from. (Source).

Quoted for the absolute truth. You defeated Garrick completely in this post.

Garrick is very sneaky and posts nonsense at nights when nobody is on.

 

[Garrick]

Negligible genetic flow in Slavic expansion to the Balcans


http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.hu/2015/09/negligible-genetic-flow-in-slavic.html

Gyms
Here we have fun, some people don't want realize where I-CTS10228 and his older clades until forefathers could lived and moved.

We can notice link from Balkans via Western Europe to Northern Europe, and it is area about we can talk.

It means older clades of I-CTS10228 were in Western Europe and we can search how much they could be to north and south.

Poor people who "invent" term I2a-Slav, it is nonsense over nonsense, but human stupidity has no limits.

They live in hopeless that nothing will be found about I-CTS10228 in the time of bottlenecks, and earlier for older clades - direct ancestors.

I said, it is irony that technically I-CTS10228 is German marker because most probably it emerged after bottleneck among members of German tribe Bastarnae.

Irony, because German troops came to the Balkans twice and fought against Southern Slavs not knowing that they originate from a German tribe.

Yes this haplogroup entered in genetic fund of Thracians and they spread this haplogroup in the Balkans but originally it is German (Bastarnae) marker.

Given the very exciting destiny and definitely completely European, without problem, someone can use term I2a-European marker.

 

[Garrick]

Quoted for the absolute truth. You defeated Garrick completely in this post.

Garrick is very sneaky and posts nonsense at nights when nobody is on.

Wrong, certainly you can believe in your idol who invented term "I2a-Slav", nobody defend you to believe.

There will be unlimited disappointment when the truth is revealed, dices are getting faster.

 

[blevins13]

Blevins since you read my post,

Tell what I say,
Before I send your post to moderators,

I am clear what I said,

And I Insist on that.

and next time you blaim me such, I will call moderators,

I have read your posts, you have been posting from 2011.


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

 

[blevins13]

Blevins, the next time you use the word "slave" instead of "Slav", you'll get an infraction.

If you people keep posting off-topic material after all the warnings, I'm going to start handing out infractions again.

Hi Angela, that was a typing mistake, there was no intention to insult anyone.


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[Garrick]

Blevins since you read my post, Tell what I say, Before I send your post to moderators, I am clear what I said, And I Insist on that. and next time you blaim me such, I will call moderators,

Story is over.

I asked: Where are Slavs, and nobody answered. How people who "invent" that I-CTS10228 is "I2a-Slav" cannot find Slavs on the Ptolomy chart, it is implausible (stupid).

Question: Where are Slavs? can be changed in another question. In which Slavic tribe I-CTS10228 emerged after bottleneck, 2300 (or more) years ago?

And nobody who "knows" about "I2a-Slav" marker will give answer because know nothing. Things are complex and since problem is very complex it is easiest to speak empty without being in the essence.

Certainly problem what I-CTS10228 is hard to find in early times is what Bastarnae cremated bodies to temperatures reaching 900 degrees C, but scientists will find sooner or later, and older clades too, what is important to follow movements and territory.

 

[Angela]

Hi Angela, that was a typing mistake, there was no intention to insult anyone.


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O.K. Good. Glad to hear it, Blevins.

@Garrick,
The fact remains that your post about the different lineages was incorrect and misleading.

 

[Garrick]

@Garrick,
The fact remains that your post about the different lineages was incorrect and misleading.

Angela
Only fact is that I2a-Slav is incorrect and stupid term. There is nowhere else except on this forum. Using this wrong term completely reduces the reputation of the entire forum. But those who "invented" it are not even aware of what kind of stupidity they have done.

...
And sometimes it is just a matter of time. For example I gave information that I-CTS10228* is found in Alsace (France near German border). If more people say something, that does not mean they are right.

Everyone can see that I gave correct information (the other thing is that it disturbs someone's wrong assumptions):

https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-CTS10228/

By clicking FRA we can see area is Bas-Rhin and it is in Alsace.

It means my post was correct.

 

[Kingslav]

Negligible genetic flow in Slavic expansion to the Balcans


http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.hu/2015/09/negligible-genetic-flow-in-slavic.html

False propaganda in this article. Can be summed up first quote comments by Davidski...

"This study didn't have any samples from the ethnic Polish core (Greater Poland in West-Central Poland). The only western Polish sample is from Wroclaw, which was mostly settled by migrants what is now western Ukraine after WWII. Other Polish samples are from Warsaw, which is actually in what was originally Masovia, and even Estonia, which was a Polish colony a couple of hundred years ago. Yes, they actually used people from the Polish diaspora in Estonia, where there was a lot of mixing between Poles, Estonians and Russians.

So I don't really know what this paper says about Poland's genetic structure? Probably not much."

This paper tells nothing about truth of Poles and author is telling half lies trying to separate East, West, South Slavs but then ironically it shows on graph these groups overlapping or closest radius to each other. Lol. What is point of this post gyms? Leave the Slavic matters to those with the expertise my neighbour of north. Some people are looking hard for these "unique" research papers. Lol

 

[Dinarid]

I still struggle to see how the main branch of I2a1b-Dinaric (+L147.2) can be attributed in its entirety to Slavic invaders. It doesn't seem likely that anything brought by relatively recent invaders could be so pervasive throughout deeply-entrenched populations with millennia of history living where they have, including such high frequencies among Romanians and non-negligeable concentrations in other non-Slavic groups around the Balkans.

 

[Nik]

I still struggle to see how the main branch of I2a1b-Dinaric (+L147.2) can be attributed in its entirety to Slavic invaders. It doesn't seem likely that anything brought by relatively recent invaders could be so pervasive throughout deeply-entrenched populations with millennia of history living where they have, including such high frequencies among Romanians and non-negligeable concentrations in other non-Slavic groups around the Balkans.

It is in the advantage of some insecure Albanians to be autochthonous and unique in front of Internet forum members. Same goes to the insecure South Slavs. Must be the effects of Stormfront or whatever other forums there are. I personally see it as an inferiority complex wanting to be accepted by the enemy.

No matter how hard they try to prove their point of being Illyrians and indigenous, many people will still hate us and despise our heritage due to religion and criminality. If one day there will be a scientific paper called 'The Illyrian-Albanian continuity', such people will transfer the hatred to the Illyrians and call them dirty pirate scum LOL

It actually takes a trip to such countries and a few friends to start to realize that we're more similar than different despite one side being I2a dominated (well thats the case only for Herzegovina anyway) and the other E-V13 and J2b2 dominated.

Even if I2a is indeed Slavic, that would make the male population of Serbia max 50% Slavic descended, so basically 1/4 Slavic.

 

[Kingslav]

It is in the advantage of some insecure Albanians to be autochthonous and unique in front of Internet forum members. Same goes to the insecure South Slavs. Must be the effects of Stormfront or whatever other forums there are. I personally see it as an inferiority complex wanting to be accepted by the enemy.

No matter how hard they try to prove their point of being Illyrians and indigenous, many people will still hate us and despise our heritage due to religion and criminality. If one day there will be a scientific paper called 'The Illyrian-Albanian continuity', such people will transfer the hatred to the Illyrians and call them dirty pirate scum LOL

It actually takes a trip to such countries and a few friends to start to realize that we're more similar than different despite one side being I2a dominated (well thats the case only for Herzegovina anyway) and the other E-V13 and J2b2 dominated.

Even if I2a is indeed Slavic, that would make the male population of Serbia max 50% Slavic descended, so basically 1/4 Slavic.

I2A Slavs and R1A Slavs we are not entirely Slavic in ancient perspective must be remembered as others addressed already. We mixed with Thracians, Sarmatians, Scythians, Bastarnae, Tatars, Balts, Vikings that is just some ancient groups that I can confirm not even mentioning some modern groups we mixed with. There is more groups we mixing with as we conquered and maintained land mass of Northeast & Southeast Europe. For example, Serbs this means mixing with Illyrians, etc through expansion. For some Albanians this means mixing with Serbs, etc. I have infront of me Serbs showing average 29.1%-35.4% I2A and 20.4%-25.8% R1A. Serbs is NOT 1/4 Slav like you are attempting here. Serbs is MORE than HALF Slavic. To be technical 50%-61% of I2A/R1A combined in Serbs and we know these are the 2 Slavic haplogroups.

 

[Bergin]

I still struggle to see how the main branch of I2a1b-Dinaric (+L147.2) can be attributed in its entirety to Slavic invaders. It doesn't seem likely that anything brought by relatively recent invaders could be so pervasive throughout deeply-entrenched populations with millennia of history living where they have, including such high frequencies among Romanians and non-negligeable concentrations in other non-Slavic groups around the Balkans.

Nothing is 100%.
It is somehow paradoxical to consider I2a-din a recent arrival, when I think we all agree that it has been in the Balkans at least for 1500 years.
There is no chance that people knew about being I, R, J, or E haplogroups. They were just mixing, and today the Balkans is autosomally very correlated.
I would have been much more surprised if you would have no I2a-din among other Balkan populations.

 

[gyms]

What is point of this post gyms? Leave the Slavic matters to those with the expertise my neighbour of north. Some people are looking hard for these "unique" research papers. Lol

I-CTS10228 is not a Slavic matter,My Lord.

 

[Kingslav]

What is point of this post gyms? Leave the Slavic matters to those with the expertise my neighbour of north. Some people are looking hard for these "unique" research papers. Lol

I-CTS10228 is not a Slavic matter,My Lord.

Lol you are saying I am not slav? Funny joke, I am I-CTS10228. Which means same as I2A-Din but gyms wants to look clever with his whiny response

 

[Garrick]

Lol you are saying I am not slav? Funny joke, I am I-CTS10228. Which means same as I2A-Din but gyms wants to look clever with his whiny response.

Kingslav
Certainly you can be Slav. It depends which is your clade. What TMRCA for your clade is younger probability that you are Slav increases, if it is older than 1400 years probability is much smaller. But it is not so easy, also you need to collect more information, for example from which tribe (fraternity) is your family, geographical area, historical records, can you monitor movements your ancestors etc. Sometimes it requires a lot of effort and time, it can be hard mission. Only you are I-CTS10228 cannot tell with high probability if you Slav or no.

 

[Kingslav]

Kingslav
Certainly you can be Slav. It depends which is your clade. What TMRCA for your clade is younger probability that you are Slav increases, if it is older than 1400 years probability is much smaller. But it is not so easy, also you need to collect more information, for example from which tribe (fraternity) is your family, geographical area, historical records, can you monitor movements your ancestors etc. Sometimes it requires a lot of effort and time, it can be hard mission. Only you are I-CTS10228 cannot tell with high probability if you Slav or no.

Garrick you overthinking about clades and TMRCA. We are similar humans from same tribes. This concept is simple. Vlachs, Dacian, Thracians, Getae, White Croats, I2A-Din, R1A and others is all different names for similar tribes given by different historian for these tribes who were assimilating each other to make slavs. I wouldnt be online here discussing, if I didnt have already detailed family history.