I2a-Din came to the Balkans and Dinaric Alps with the Thracians, Dacians & Illyrians

Trojet said:
recycling the same anti-Albanian propaganda at Eupedia for the last 6 years.
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@Trojet
there are also forumers that promote Albanian propaganda for 6 years.

What bothers me, and sometimes I, it also possesed me, in the Forum is

WHO WILL PREVAIL

I had many argue in Forum.
I earn friends and enemies.
Many times I caught my shelf at the 'limits' and sometimes I passed the limits

BUT
Democracy is to hear all options,
Academic thinking is to judge all thoughts, reject accept, and if can not find correct mention all possible well proved theories
the forum has been accused for Anti-Albanian propaganda !!!!!

So personally I am tired of what is friendly-phillo or hostile-anti

so Trojet,
we both can post our thoughts and links,
BUT IF YOU CAN NOT CONVICE ME ( I speak generally not personally)
I HAVE THE RIGHT TO BRING FOR DISCUSS ANOTHER THEORY,

BUT
If I accept your theories, then what am I?
a wise? a Phillo-Albanian
if I reject your theories and write/link the ones I believe
SUDDENLY I AM ANTI-ALBANIAN?

that reminds the fear of speach few decades before,
if you said something about Jews you were accused as Anti-Semitic,
Today if you say something about islam you are accused as a Racist etc,

we are very Dogmatic many of us (I include me also)
to the degree of Despotism if someone express something Different.

Time to relax all,
Democracy demands all opinions to be heard, wrong friendly anti hostile
Academic thinking and scientif prove/laws justify the corrects,
and if can decide on what is correct, or many seems correct, then All opinions that passed the ΖΥΓΟΣ (libra) of pass the libra must Exist,


PS
I used that word many times propaganda, and agenda,
but all where to hoax information, mainly away from clear scientific prove


for six years I read and read the same crap of Kollia,
ELEOS, have mercy, your fingers do not feel pain writting and writting the same

 
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Garick@
You even made an assumption that Bastarnae are "Germans" there is no such proof whatsoever.
Bastareus is name of Thracian ruler/king of present day R.Macedonia 4.B.C most probably a Paeonian/Thracian.

Magna Germania in antiquity does not equal the present day connotation Germans,has no ethnic connotation or linguistic connotation of today.Just like in Illyria were living people speaking different languages,the same way in Magna Germania were living people speaking different languages and not only Germans of today.If you take Strabo clasification of Bastarnae as Germani,or the Veneti as Germani he does that because they were not nomads like the Sarmatians,but traveled on foot so were part of Germani!
Regarding "Gothi/Getae" i gave my opinion and opinion on some scholars who even wrote books about it.

This is Thracian coin and not German.

170682073725_2.JPG



Overally we will wait much more to make general conclusion about this haplogroup I2a din.
 
Angela said:
Miroslav, Garrick, Milan and Dinarid, you can down thumb me and anyone else who shows up your illogic until kingdom come. . It's just ultra-nationalistic obfuscation and everyone knows it. Who do you think you're kidding? Everyone else in the amateur community knows that this whole argument is nonsense, and as for the academics, you're not even on their radar.

You keep spamming the same distorted arguments over and over again, and harassing other members, and you're all going to get infractions. Everyone else is tired of being on this merry-go-round.
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I'm surprised to have seen my name. Can you explain to me what I've done? I was not involved in this conversation until now. I don't even know what argument I've been making as I haven't even participated in this thread.
 
Sile said:
90% of illyrian lands are outside of Albania, it is impossible to claim you are illyrian, do you think there was no illyrians in illyria when the slavs arrived?
The Hallstatt culture was the predominant Western and Central European culture of Early Iron Age Europe from the 8th to 6th centuries BC, developing out of the Urnfield culture of the 12th century BC (Late Bronze Age) and followed in much of its area by the La Tène culture. It is commonly associated with Proto-Celtic and Celtic populations in the Western Hallstatt zone and with (pre-)Illyrians in the eastern Hallstatt zone.[1]

Do you see Pre-Illyrians , that is where illyrians began in the east-austrian/slovenian lands


Illyrians lands are from east austria, slovenia, croatia, bosnia, pannonia
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Scutari/ Shkodra was the center of the Illyrian Queen Teuta, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teuta, so all you saying makes no historical sense.


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Kingslav said:
Now everyone getting political all of a sudden. Ok. We are Thraco-Sarmatians. You are Illyro-Thracians mixed with other stuff you are debating with Yetos lol. You branch from us, evidence is Albanczyk is 20% I2A + 10% R1A = 30% Slav markers. Your silly I2A-Slav joke you talk about, 30% I2A-Slav is 1/3 of your genes.
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Dream on....


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Milan.M said:
Garick@
You even made an assumption that Bastarnae are "Germans" there is no such proof whatsoever.
Bastareus is name of Thracian ruler/king of present day R.Macedonia 4.B.C most probably a Paeonian/Thracian.

Magna Germania in antiquity does not equal the present day connotation Germans,has no ethnic connotation or linguistic connotation of today.Just like in Illyria were living people speaking different languages,the same way in Magna Germania were living people speaking different languages and not only Germans of today.If you take Strabo clasification of Bastarnae as Germani,or the Veneti as Germani he does that because they were not nomads like the Sarmatians,but traveled on foot so were part of Germani!
Regarding "Gothi/Getae" i gave my opinion and opinion on some scholars who even wrote books about it.

This is Thracian coin and not German.

170682073725_2.JPG



Overally we will wait much more to make general conclusion about this haplogroup I2a din.
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It is not what someone wants or dream, you can see here a bunch of dreamers.

Truth is quite different.

Bastarnae were German tribe, it is proved. Yes someone can thinks that in Bastarnae were elements of other populations.

Bastarnae are most probably creators of Zarubintsy culture, it is area where I-CTS10228 emerged after bottleneck; it was not Slavic culture what is proved.

Bastarnae migrated to South East and there they mixed with Thracians (Getae-Dacians) and Sarmatians. It is reason why I-CTS10228 were not spread in the West of Europe where it created but in South and East.

Bastarnae entered deep in territory of Dacia (Peuceni) and it is reason why Romanians and Moldavians high percents this haplogroup.

Bastarnae arrived in todays Serbia - Moesia and Dardania too. And Dacians/Thracians brought this haplogroup around Balkans too. There were several possibilities how this haplogroup arrived in Illiricum. Theoreticaly even younger clade I-PH908 could emerge in Illyricum todays Western Serbia, Bosnia or Montenegro.

Sarmatians spread this haplogroup northern and eastern to the Slavs.

There is no more dilemma, Bastarnae was German tribe, technically it is correct to say I-CTS10228 is German marker. But since this marker is truly European and by origin and it is related to several European populations, it is most correct to call it:

I2a-European.
 
Balkanite said:
You are going off topic.

Everytime you post spam and propaganda, i will just repeat myself again.

I2a-slav/din came to the balkans with slavs.
As this is one of the strongest slavic markers.
No ancient I2a-slav/din has been found the balkans.


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This makes sense so far....


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Kingslav said:
I said already my theory since second post, I2A-Din people are descendants of Thracians.

" I am not Illyrian descendant IMO, Illyrian is south Balkans. Specifically Albanians. I believe Thracians come from near Black Sea coast ( Romania, Moldova, Ukraine ) where you can find I2A." - Kingslav Page 16
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You wish but no way....I think Slavs might have more chances to be aliens than Thracians


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Yetos said:
no I have no agenda,
that is why I did not took much posts in this thread,
but the difference is obvious,

it clearly a population that moved from elsewhere to Albania,
and surely not ancient,
rather Roman or medieval Crusades or Normands,
the peak is very high to consider it ancient, as also is not from Anatoolia neither from Alps neither from Yamnaa,
it is from West Europe,

Admit it and do not hide behind finger,
Like it or not,
Atlantic is not a mark that created in Balkans,
but a mark brought to Aimos peninsula.
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Yetos, you are all over the place, first you said Albanians were brought by Turks, now they are crusaders ..... will see what will be next.



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blevins13 said:
I have one more ....maybe it is alien. The proto-slave has been taken by aliens and modified genetically and than also abused in many ways.


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Yes, when someone has no idea about problem aliens and UFO are first thoughts.

Unfortunately they are usually weather balloons, planet Venus, rared cloud formations, ball lightning, meteors, artificial satellites, lanterns, flares, aircraft, and sometimes hoaxes.

http://www.higgypop.com/blog/10-most-common-explanations-for-ufo-sightings/

So, before someone thinks that Bastarnae are aliens there are better explanations:

http://dbpedia.org/page/Bastarnae

The Bastarnae (Latin variants: Bastarni, or Basternae; Ancient Greek: Βαστάρναι or Βαστέρναι) were an ancient people who between 200 BC and 300 AD inhabited the region between the Carpathian mountains and the river Dnieper, to the north and east of ancient Dacia. The Peucini, denoted a branch of the Bastarnae by Greco-Roman writers, occupied the region north of the Danube delta. The ethno-linguistic affiliation of the Bastarnae was probably Germanic, which is supported by ancient historians and modern archeology. However, some ancient literary sources imply Celtic or Scytho-Sarmatian influences. The most likely scenario is that they were originally a group of East Germanic tribes, originally resident in the lower Vistula river valley. In ca. 200 BC, these tribes then migrated, possibly accompanied by some Celtic elements, southeastwards into the North Pontic region. Some elements appear to have become assimilated, to some extent, by the surrounding Sarmatians by the 3rd century. Although largely sedentary, some elements may have adopted a semi-nomadic lifestyle. It has not, so far, been possible to identify archaeological sites which can be conclusively attributed to the Bastarnae. The archaeological horizons most often associated by scholars with the Bastarnae are the Zarubintsy and Poienesti-Lukashevka cultures. The Bastarnae first came into conflict with the Romans during the 1st century BC, when, in alliance with Dacians and Sarmatians, they unsuccessfully resisted Roman expansion into Moesia and Pannonia. Later, they appear to have maintained friendly relations with the Roman empire during the first two centuries AD. This changed from c. 180, when the Bastarnae are recorded as participants in an invasion of Roman territory, once again in alliance with Sarmatian and Dacian elements. In the mid-3rd century, the Bastarnae were part of a Gothic-led grand coalition of lower Danube tribes which repeatedly invaded the Balkan provinces of the Roman empire. Large numbers of Bastarnae were resettled within the Roman empire in the late 3rd century.
 
Kingslav said:
Oh very smart answer Blevin. You are educated brother, educated with wrong book. I am 100% SLAV, my dna results below you should read, I know exactly what I am. Through centuries of our WARS my ancestors keep gene pool clean. There is no true proof more than science and science will put your FOLKTALES to shame. Alien, I always consider someone who doesn't know what they are, but you can't put that on Slavs. You are getting away with racist comment "slaves" you wouldnt get away. Also thanks for posting picture man, I noticed you have blonde pigment more than even my sister, what ottoman ancestor did you get from? Poland has fastest growing economy in Europe year 2017, Garrick already addressed this but that is off topic so I will leave it alone for now.
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Racism...no way, at the and we all come from the same place Africa, I am not sure about Slavs maybe their genes are really special Alien, just kidding, your claims about Thracian are funny but we have time and we will see who is right... I am R1b no relation to ottomans but even if I was an ottoman does that make me bad.
 
blevins13 said:
But even there was one i do not mind it. We are 100% autochthonous in the Balkans my DNA proves that.


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Wrong.

Objectively autochthonous in the Balkans is I-P37 forefather of I-CTS10228, found in Serbia in Lepen Whirl, time 8753-8351 BC.

If your ancestors are older in the Balkans than 9000 years BC, yes, you are autochthnous.

But probability is 0, therefore you are newcomer.

It is reality, fair tales are for other topics.
 
Garrick said:
Wrong.

Objectively autochthonous in the Balkans is I-P37 forefather of I-CTS10228, found in Serbia in Lepen Whirl, time 8753-8351 BC.
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Can I have a link for this source?
 
Garrick said:
Wrong.

Objectively autochthonous in the Balkans is I-P37 forefather of I-CTS10228, found in Serbia in Lepen Whirl, time 8753-8351 BC.

If your ancestors are older in the Balkans than 9000 years BC, yes, you are autochthnous.

But probability is 0, therefore you are newcomer.

It is reality, fair tales are for other topics.
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Illuminate us with some academic references but not from pseudoscientist..... and than we will consider changing our ideas based on what has been proven so far....


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Garrick said:
Objectively autochthonous in the Balkans is I-P37 forefather of I-CTS10228, found in Serbia in Lepen Whirl, time 8753-8351 BC.
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Johane Derite said:
Can I have a link for this source?
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No, because this is another disinformation that Garrick the Serb is trying to sneak in, just like he was trying to do here.

Sample I5236, which he is talking about, could not have been the "forefather" of I-CTS10228 because he is negative for I-M423 where I-CTS10228 stems from. He is either some extinct I-P37 or possibly I-M26, which is the "Sardinian" branch and split during the Paleolithic.

What he doesn't tell you is that in the same area (Iron Gates, Serbia) they found R1b's from the Mesolithic (samples I5237, I5240). So by his logic those R1b's are the "forefathers" of all current Balkan R1b's. However, this is not true either, as they are negative for R1b-M269, where Balkan R1b stems from. (Source).

2rzv144.jpg
 
Blevins, the next time you use the word "slave" instead of "Slav", you'll get an infraction.

If you people keep posting off-topic material after all the warnings, I'm going to start handing out infractions again.
 
blevins13 said:
Yetos, you are all over the place, first you said Albanians were brought by Turks, now they are crusaders ..... will see what will be next.



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Blevins since you read my post,

Tell what I say,
Before I send your post to moderators,

I am clear what I said,

And I Insist on that.

and next time you blaim me such, I will call moderators,

 
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