If hg. IJ folks were Cro-magnon who were R* folks?

[Goga]

I’m not mad bro, according to me the same nonsense about R1a never ends. And I get annoy d by that.
The onlyl ink between Celts and Slavs is native European (Europoid) Y-DNA 'I' lineage and some some Neolithic linages.

Maciamo is wrong big time. And I tell you why.
The Iceman Otzi has also a round face, while his haplogroup is G2-something. He was in Europe before Indo-Europeans i guess.
BeforeT urkic and Iranic tribes people in the Steppes were actualy close to Bulgarian sand other Balkanic people. They were not Mongoloid, but Meds. While mumies in the Tarim Basin have actually SYBERIAN (Mongoloid) aDNA!

http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2012/11/mitochondrial-dna-in-ancient-human.html


Proto-Indo-Europeans lived even thousands years before Tarim Basin mummies. And they were by no mean 'Mongoloid' or partly 'Mongoloid' like modernday Balts and Slavs..

 

[Templar]

http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2012/11/u7-in-rostov-scythians.html

Dienekes gets a lot of things wrong, and he is a biased Greek nationalist. Everything he does is from a Mediterranean-biased persepective. Haven't you noticed that?

Maciamo iswrong big time. And I tell you why.

I actually came to similar conclusions as he did, completely independently, and many others have as well. There are clear patterns that we can see.

BeforeTurkic and Iranic people in the Steppes people were actualy close to Bulgariansand othe Balkan people. They were not Mongoloid

Modern-day Central Asians probably became Mongoloid during the Mongol invasions, but before that they were probably light-eyed, light-haired, short, and with wide roundish faces.

The IcemanOtzi has also a round face, while his haplogroup is G2-something

How old are his remains?

Just look at the data we have available. Most Southern Europeans have traits similar to Near-Eastern people, that is because of the neolithic migrants that migrated. They have thin but long faces, and tend to be average height. The haplogroups support this. East and West Slavs and Celts tend to have light features, are average to short height, and are known for having round faces (this is the stereotype). The only exception to these two phenotypes (the Mediterranean and Slavic/Celt one) are the Scandinavian and Dinaric Alp populations. And both Scandinavians and Yugoslavs share several common traits. Both usually have long faces, both are known to be hairy, both are relatively robust, both are known for their tallness. And they both happen to have the highest rates of Haplogroup I. It doesn't seem like a coincidence.

 

[Goga]

Otzi had also light feature and he was definitely NOT from the steppes! Otzi lived about 3,300 BCE. Dienekes is more believable and accurate then Polish and Assyrians racists that try to make West Asia/Caucasus URHEIMAT for all Semitic folks, what is of course not true!

And this is an independent study.

http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2012/11/mitochondrial-dna-in-ancient-human.html

Ancient population of Kazakhstan was Mediterranean, while Tarim mummies (TAR) are Siberian (aDNA). These are facts, bro.

 

[Mikewww]

... Celts are totally different people than Slavs.....

Culturally, that may be a fair statement, but in terms of Y lineages, I wouldn't necessarily characterize it like that. For example, it is possible for a Celtic lineage to have integrated and become a Germanic lineage, so in different eras the lineage was of different speaking groups.

I have two g-grandfathers from the Czech Republic territory that considered themselves Bohemians and spoke Slavic. What is Bohemia named for? The Boii, a Celtic tribe. Who's to say some of the Boii didn't stay in place and learn new languages during the ages?

 

[Goga]

Culturally, that may be a fair statement, but in terms of lineages, I wouldn't necessarily characterize it like that. I think it is possible for a Celtic lineage have integrated and become a Germanic lineage, for example, so in different timeframes the lineage was of different speaking groups.

I have two g-grandfathers from the Czech Republic territory that considered themselves Bohemians and spoke Slavic. What is Bohemia named for? The Boii, a Celtic tribe. Who's to say some of the Boii didn't stay in place and learn new languages during the ages?

I wrote earlier that West Slavic folks have some Germanic DNA. With all due respect but Czech people are not the same as Russians.
But in general they are not the same as Celts. Celts are for me people in Spain, south British folks, French, Italians (Italics) etc.

Also in the Balkans Celts mixed with Slavic people, Rumanians are actually a good example for it.

 

[Templar]

Otzi lived about 3,300 BCE

This is roughly around the time when Steppe people were entering Europe. This is perfect! So his face was both round AND he had light features? Wow this is great.

 

[Goga]

This is roughly around the time when Steppe people were entering Europe. This is perfect! So his face was both round AND he had light features? Wow this is great.

Have you seen his aDNA? It's mostly Med, (South)West Asian. He was G2a, btw.

He was close to Sardinians like ancient population of Kazakhstan. Modern Slavs have nothing to do with him!

http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2012/11/mitochondrial-dna-in-ancient-human.html

Maciamo

Ötzi's DNA could be from 30% to 42% of Neolithic immigrant origin. There is little doubt that the Caucasian (22.3%) and Southwest Asian (7.6%) admixtures are from Neolithic farmers.

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?27331-Ötzi-s-genome-released

 

[Templar]

He was G2a, btw.

Many believe that G2a went along with R1b when the Anatolian branch of Indo-Europeans migrated into Europe.

He was close to Sardians like ancient population of Kazakhstan.

How would Sardinians have anything to do with Kazakhstan?

Modern Slavs have nothing to do with him!

Haha yet he is round-faced and light-featured. Ah thank Deus for Otzi!

 

[Goga]

Many believe that G2a went along with R1b when the Anatolian branch of Indo-Europeans migrated into Europe.

How would Sardinians have anything to do with Kazakhstan?


Haha yet he is round-faced and light-featured. Ah thank Deus for Otzi!

Otzi was Sardian like fella (G2a), while Slvas and Balts are partly Mongoloid (N1c1)!


BANG!!

"Both "Tarim" (TAR) and "Neolithic Lake Baikal" (LOK) appear well within east Eurasian variation. But, of the West Eurasian groups, Pitted Ware Complex (PWC), i.e., Neolithic hunter-gatherers from NE Europe and Bronze Age Altai (ALT-BA) appear clearly "northern Europeoid" across the 2nd PC, as do, to a lesser extent, C/N European Hunter-Gatherers (HG) and Kurgan burials from south Siberia (KUR-BA), but Bronze Age Kazakhstan (KAZ-BA) appear to be southern Europeoid, and, also, noticeably more "West Eurasian" than the others. Clearly, the West Eurasian elements were not homogeneous, with some of them (such as KAZ-BA) apparently derived from the southern Caucasoid zone -which largely did not experience east Eurasian admixture- and others from the northern Caucasoid zone that did."

http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2012/11/mitochondrial-dna-in-ancient-human.html


As you can see Tarim mummies (TAR) in BLUE (Syberian) area, while Kazakh fella near Greeks!

 

[Templar]

As you can see Tarim mummies (TAR) in BLUE (Syberian) area, while Kazakh fella near Greeks!

Hypothetically if that is true, what are you trying to argue with it?

 

[Goga]

Native folks in the Steppes (North of the Black Sea/ around Caspian Sea) were Meds, like Greeks, Sardinians, Italians = South Europoids + Middle Easterns and not like Neolithic hunter-gatherers / Eastern Slavs & Balts (which are partly Mongoloid with their Y-DNA hg. N1c1 lineage).

Northeast European aDNA (admixture component) is partly Mongoloid that has nothing to do with proto-Indo-Europeans. Neolithic hunter-gatherers were (and modern eastern Slavs & Balts) are closer to Bronze Age Altai (ALT-BA) folks (Mongoloids)!

 

[Templar]

So you think that light features developed in Europe? Then how come light features follow wherever Indo-Europeans had a heavy presence?

 

[Goga]

I don't know.

According to the writers of this site red hair mutation is from West Asia. I believe it's from the Neanderthal from the Balkans or something. http://www.eupedia.com/genetics/origins_of_red_hair.shtml

And it's possible that blonde hair mutation is from the native ancestors (Neolithic hunter-gatherers) of Finns, Balts and Slavs and some north Eurasian Turco-Mongoloid tribes..

 

[Templar]

Ok what is your opinion as to why Scandinavians look different from other Northern Europeans? Why are their faces longer, and why are they taller?

 

[Yetos]

I think the thread is coming very interesting.

 

[Kardu]

Goga, perhaps I've asked you this once, but how come that Lithuanian has so much in common with Sanskrit?
How come that so many upper-caste Indians look like Europeans?

 

[Yetos]

hmm. i wonder if we could also the oposite, why Europeans look like so much with Indians.

 

[ElHorsto]

Without taking any side here, one should also keep in mind that fringe areas/population sometimes better preserved original foreign languages. Examples are icelandic language which is more close to the original ancient nordic. Or celtic languages are preserved today in the fringes of the birtish isles despite that the celtic cradle was in central europe. Turcic languages also spread a lot with surprisingly low alteration of the native stock. For instance compare the admixture between anatolian Turks, Tatars, Bashkirs and finally Altaians/Mongols. They don't have much in common except a few vague Y-DNA traces. Many Finno-Ugric speaking peoples are autosomally close to indistinguishable from other IE-speaking north europeans (mongoloid(amerind) admixture is actually not significantly higher in north-eastern europe, because it is probably rather of paleolithic origin and thus less linked to Y-HG N).

 

[Kardu]

hmm. i wonder if we could also the oposite, why Europeans look like so much with Indians.

No, we can't. The vector is clear from West to East..

 

[Alan]

I think people here are doing wrong in connecting one phenotype to a specific Haplogroup. I believe that the cranial index can change in different environments or with different diets. I simply stated that I believe the first R1a people were largely mesocephalic and broad faced. moving further into Europe they might have changed to more Dolichocephalic people (Corded Ware).