if spanish and portugese are heavily celtic why are some dark?

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why do the penelope cruz and antonio banderas type spaniards exist ? are they still celtic ?


Iberia peninsula has 17%-20% Middle-Eastern ( ancient Phoenicians,Berbers/Moors,Semitic-Jews,etc ) genetic component,google research has a good batch of DNA reports on the subject.

I suspect the " Celtic " connection is desired out of inferiority complex and some Spaniards ( Portuguese don't care about it ) & Americas mestizo netizens seek closer tie to " first world " NW Europeans.
 
In year 1978 Spanish shrank 4 centimeters. hmmm
Besides that, now I noticed that year to year data fluctuate quite a bit, up and down. Was sampling pool small? I mean small cohord. :)
Just observations.
 
well the lighter iberians dont really look that mediterranean imo they look atlantid are taller and lighter skinned and not proper western mediterranean. when i think mediterranean spanish people i think penelope cruz monica cruz rafael nadal antonio banderas thats iberian mediterranean not the north-atlantid kind that people here seem to be posting for some weird reason that type looks more "northern"
 
Iberia peninsula has 17%-20% Middle-Eastern ( ancient Phoenicians,Berbers/Moors,Semitic-Jews,etc ) genetic component,google research has a good batch of DNA reports on the subject.
I suspect the " Celtic " connection is desired out of inferiority complex and some Spaniards ( Portuguese don't care about it ) & Americas mestizo netizens seek closer tie to " first world " NW Europeans.

Native origin Berbers are not Middle Eastern / Semitic. The E-(M-81) found in Iberia (the majority of Near Eastern markers in the Iberian Peninsula) is NW African Berber and not Semitic. It comes from the pre-Neolithic Eurasian (White) Berbers. The great percentage of Berbers today are mixed. M-81 has been detected even in Scandinavia. Please, let's not confuse the issue.

Spain has less Near Eastern DNA than Austria or France and Portugal considerably less than Italy and a any number of other European countries. The highest levels of "Middle Eastern" DNA recorded in Europe are found in the Balkans and Italy.
 
well the lighter iberians dont really look that mediterranean imo they look atlantid are taller and lighter skinned and not proper western mediterranean. when i think mediterranean spanish people i think penelope cruz monica cruz rafael nadal antonio banderas thats iberian mediterranean not the north-atlantid kind that people here seem to be posting for some weird reason that type looks more "northern"

READ the posts. The photos are RANDOM and many are of military or sports teams. Such people are not in these organizations because of appearance (e.g., the media industry). The majority of Iberians do not have typical "Mediterranean" characteristics. Most are not Nordic looking, of course, but a large number are Paleo-Atlantid, Nordid Atlantid or Altlanto-Mediterranean. Iberians are primarily Atlantic peoples. It shouldn't take doctoral degrees in physical anthropology and population genetics to figure that out, should it?... :rolleyes:

Get rid of the ridiculous stereotypes you have about Iberians. Do some traveling and see for yourself.
 
Cambria Red, don't be stupid. Ignore the Sirious' clones, please. :innocent:
 
Iberia peninsula has 17%-20% Middle-Eastern ( ancient Phoenicians,Berbers/Moors,Semitic-Jews,etc ) genetic component,google research has a good batch of DNA reports on the subject.

I suspect the " Celtic " connection is desired out of inferiority complex and some Spaniards ( Portuguese don't care about it ) & Americas mestizo netizens seek closer tie to " first world " NW Europeans.
LOL. Where did you get that ??
First of all, the berbers/moors are not middle-eastern, they are north-african. Second, the phoencians, jews, berbers, etc were always a minority who didn't leave any impact on the admixutre.Thirdly :
The only haplogroups considered "levant" or middle-eastern are the J, E and T. (Even though, most of the J and E in Europe is of roman, greek, or neolithic origin)
Well, between all of this haplogroups (J, E, T) Spain has below-average compared to other european countries :
J1 + E + T :
(Spain has about the same as Belgium) :

  • Austria 22%
  • Belgium 10%
  • Bulgaria 30%
  • Czech Rep. 13%
  • France 15%
  • Hungary 17.5%
  • Netherlands 11.5%
  • Serbia 42%
  • Romania 32%
  • Switzerland 15.5%
  • Ukraine 20%
  • Spain 12%
 
Wilhelm, seriously, don't feed the troll. If he's hungry let him eat some beans. :innocent:

maltesekid = trollhattan = sirious2b, the poor mexican with inferiority complex. And he's probably Luis77 also.

Just for those who hadn't notice it.
 
LOL. Where did you get that ??
First of all, the berbers/moors are not middle-eastern, they are north-african. Second, the phoencians, jews, berbers, etc were always a minority who didn't leave any impact on the admixutre.Thirdly :
The only haplogroups considered "levant" or middle-eastern are the J, E and T. (Even though, most of the J and E in Europe is of roman, greek, or neolithic origin)
Well, between all of this haplogroups (J, E, T) Spain has below-average compared to other european countries :
J1 + E + T :
(Spain has about the same as Belgium) :

  • Austria 22%
  • Belgium 10%
  • Bulgaria 30%
  • Czech Rep. 13%
  • France 15%
  • Hungary 17.5%
  • Netherlands 11.5%
  • Serbia 42%
  • Romania 32%
  • Switzerland 15.5%
  • Ukraine 20%
  • Spain 12%


For the record, in Portugal J1 + E & T = 17.5%. Portugal is 1/5 of Iberia, so the total for Iberia is between 13-14%. "Mid-East" mt-DNA may actually be even lower in Iberia.
 
I suspect the " Celtic " connection is desired out of inferiority complex and some Spaniards ( Portuguese don't care about it ) & Americas mestizo netizens seek closer tie to " first world " NW Europeans.
I suspect you are an idiot, and you need some history lessons badly, have some fun :

"Modern scholarship, however, has clearly proven that Celtic presence and influences were most substantial in Iberia (with perhaps the highest settlement saturation in Western Europe), particularly in the western and northern regions.

The historical Celts were a diverse group of tribal societies in Iron Age Europe. Proto-Celtic culture formed in the Early Iron Age (1200 BC-400 AD) in Central Europe (Hallstatt period, named for the site in present-day Austria). By the later Iron Age (La Tène period), Celts had expanded over a wide range of lands: as far west as Ireland and the Iberian Peninsula, as far east as Galatia (central Anatolia), and as far north as Scotland.[2]
The Celtic languages form a branch of the larger Indo-European family. By the time speakers of Celtic languages enter history around 400 BC (Brennus's attack on Rome in 387 BC), they were already split into several language groups, and spread over much of Central Europe, the Iberian peninsula, Ireland and Britain."

Alberto J. Lorrio, Gonzalo Ruiz Zapatero (2005). "The Celts in Iberia: An Overview". E-Keltoi: Journal of Interdisciplinary Celtic Studies 6: 167–254. http://www.uwm.edu/Dept/celtic/ekeltoi/volumes/vol6/6_4/lorrio_zapatero_6_4.html.

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" It is now believed that the ancient Celts were by a very large majority R1b people. Many subclades of R1b divide the various geographic groups of Celts. 2500 years ago, British and Irish Celts belonged mostly to the subclade R1b-L21. Celts from Iberia and south-west Gaul were R1b-M167, while the other Gauls, from central France to southern Germany to northern Italy, belonged to R1b-U152. Further subgroups exist for all these clades (see Origins of European haplogroups).

Celtic people split in several groups : the Brythonic went to Britain and Ireland, the Gaulish to France, the Iberian to Spain and Portugal, and the Alpine remained around Austria, Switzerland, southern Germany, Eastern France and Belgium. The Iberian and Gaulish groups mixed with I2b, I2a and E people, the Alpine with I2b and E, and the Brythonic just with I2b people. "


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"Celts crossed the Pyrenees into Spain in two major migrations in the ninth and the seventh centuries B.C. The Celts settled for the most part north of the Rio Duero and the Rio Ebro, where they mixed with the Iberians to form groups called Celtiberians. The Celtiberians were farmers and herders who also excelled in metalworking crafts, which the Celts had brought from their Danubian homeland by way of Italy and southern France. Celtic influence dominated Celtiberian culture. The Celtiberians appear to have had no social or political organization larger than their matriarchal, collective, and independent clans. "

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"It seems that what we are forgetting here is that Celtic culture may not have originated in south-central Europe at all. Rather, according to globally acclaimed archaeologists, Barry Cunliffe and John Koch, among others, Celticity spread from southwest Spain and Portugal - the starting point region. There is compelling archaeological and linguistic evidence suggesting that the Tartessians were the original Celts. A very substantial ongoing study led by Koch, with participants from many fields, could ultimately prove that there is no Central European Celtic origin. Quite possibly, Celticity spread from the southwest to the east and north.

http://uhblog.ulsterheritage.com/200...one-celts.html

http://towerofbabel.com/2008/07/10/c...ays-professo/

http://www.oxbowbooks.com/bookinfo.c.../Location/DBBC"

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Then , how do you explain the massive presence of haplotype R-M167 in Iberia, which is of Celtic origin.
Or the presence of M-269 , the presence of L1/S26, the S127 ,
How do you explain the Atlantic Modal Haplotype :
The AMH is the most frequently occurring haplotype amongst human males in Atlantic Europe. It is characterised by the following marker alleles:

* DYS388 12
* DYS390 24
* DYS391 11
* DYS392 13
* DYS393 13
* DYS394 14 (also known as DYS19)

A common haplotype within R1b is sometimes called the Atlantic Modal Haplotype, or haplotype 15. It reaches the highest frequencies in the Iberian Peninsula and in Great Britain and Ireland. In the Iberian Peninsula it reaches 70% in Portugal as a whole, more than 90% in NW Portugal and nearly 90% in Galicia (NW Spain), while the highest value is to be found among Spanish Basques. It was discovered prior to many of the SNPs now used to identify subclades of R1b and references to it can be found in some of the older literature. It corresponds most closely with subclade R1b1b2a1a

"The Celtic samples are very homogeneous—the modal haplotype [microsatellite haplotype 15 within hg 1 (haplotype 1.15)] has a frequency of 0.26 in Wales and 0.18 in Ireland--[...]. Haplotype 1.15 is also modal in the Basques and constitutes 0.41". In Galicia SNaPshot multiplexes reactions this frequency is 0.23 in the chromosomes which contains M173 (Eu18 or AMH).

Eu18 and Eu19 characterize about 50% of the European Y chromosomes.
Although they share M173, the two haplotypes show contrasting geographic distribution. The frequency of Eu18 decreases from west to east, being most frequent in Basques . This lineage includes the previously described proto-European lineage that is characterized by the 49a,f haplotype 15. In contrast, haplotype Eu19, which is derived from the M173 lineage and is distinguished by M17, is virtually absent in Western Europe. Its frequency increases eastward and reaches a maximum in Poland, Hungary, and Ukraine, where Eu18 in turn is virtually absent.

Presence of the M269 marker or R1b3 is the subclade most closely corresponding to Haplotype 15. It is by far the most common in the Iberian Peninsula and the Balearic Islands (66%). It is also the most comun in Galicia 63% (Galician haplogroup-frequency 0.88: cf. Basque 1.16, NW Castilian 1.00, East Andalusia 0.95, Catalonia 0.80, South Portugal 0.78, etc.), with a very low presence of the iberian haplogroup R1b3f: 0.02.

Despite AMH alleles of Ireland they seem to correspond better with the NE of Iberia, where R1b3f was a later mutation, that with the Iberian Atlantic facade and Basconia:

Irland, Huesca (Pyrenees), Valencia: DYS388 12, DYS390 24, DYS391 11, DYS392 13, DYS393 13 e DYS19 14
Basconia: DYS388 12, DYS390 24, DYS391 10, DYS392 13, DYS393 13, DYS19 14.
Galicia: DYS388 12, DYS390 23, DYS391 9, DYS392 11, DYS393 13, DYS19 14


From later Cro-Magnon remains from southern Italy it has been found that early Europeans were of the mtDNA-Haplogroup HV or pre-HV with Celts and Basques being around 60% descendant mtDNA-Haplogroup H (Welsh 59.8%, Galicians 59.2%, Basques 57.8% Piedmont 56.8%, Valencians 53.33%).

Only the Insular languages Celtic and hispanic occidental names of god epithets show evidence of a Afro-Asiatic substrate "grammar without vocabulary" influence which may have arisen in the coastal Neolithic enclaves among the then hunter-gatherer Berbers of the Maghreb:syntactic order, plurality of plurals, etc.

So HLA A2-B7-DR15 (caucasic common haplotype; cf. Glenys Thomson and Richard Single: "Biostatistical Analyses of Population Level Data for the 14th IHIWS", 2008): They were responsible for the common genetic base that one has been in Iberian and paleonorthafricans (hamitas). “The appendation of the B7-DQ6 haplotype creates the A2-B7-DQ6 haplotype. This haplotype if found often in Northern and Western Spain, Portugal and SW of Britain;also in Austria, Switzerland, Netherlands, Germany show a significant incidence” : cf.Thomson and Richard Single, 2008.

So HLA A29-Cw16-B44-DR7-DQ2 (caucasic common haplotype; cf. Glenys Thomson and Richard Single: "Biostatistical Analyses of Population Level Data for the 14th IHIWS", 2008): The highest frequencies tend to be coastal countries along the Atlantic. The Cw16 allele is undoubtedly derived from Western Africa a substantial contribution as far north as Ireland. The high frequency of this haplotype is a marker of the old west European of the West, including a Portuguese, Basque and NW Spaniards; also it is common in Irish, English of the South and the French of the West.


Celts_800-400BC.PNG


Hallstatt_LaTene.png


Celts_in_Europe.png


Ethnographic_Iberia_200_BCE.PNG


32zhv76.jpg
 
LOL. Where did you get that ??
First of all, the berbers/moors are not middle-eastern, they are north-african. Second, the phoencians, jews, berbers, etc were always a minority who didn't leave any impact on the admixutre.Thirdly :
The only haplogroups considered "levant" or middle-eastern are the J, E and T. (Even though, most of the J and E in Europe is of roman, greek, or neolithic origin)
Well, between all of this haplogroups (J, E, T) Spain has below-average compared to other european countries :
J1 + E + T :
(Spain has about the same as Belgium) :

  • Austria 22%
  • Belgium 10%
  • Bulgaria 30%
  • Czech Rep. 13%
  • France 15%
  • Hungary 17.5%
  • Netherlands 11.5%
  • Serbia 42%
  • Romania 32%
  • Switzerland 15.5%
  • Ukraine 20%
  • Spain 12%

Actually, excluding J2, Spain is at 8% and 12% if its included. By comparison, Italy is at 35%, total J, E and T, and Greece 57%. Portugal is 25.5%, pending the University of Chicago led study (to be conducted in 2010), which may well reduce the total, given the recent findings of Beleza, et al. (2005-2006). The overall average for Iberia is about 14%. No big deal here, Iberia is a heavily Paleolithic region, like the rest of the Atlantic Facade... :bored:
 
I suspect you are an idiot, and you need some history lessons badly, have some fun


:LOL: ... no need to look elsewhere,yourself is one (y)

Germanic and Celtic NW Europeans have NO desire of any kinship with you swarthy " third-world " Iberian people.

Spain has the LOWEST STATUS in the EU,cried one anti-Moors nationalist-Spaniard at one anthro-forum.
 
Sirious2b, have you already learnt what the Max Planck Society is?

I see you're writting from Oregon now... please take care of the minute men:

beaners.jpg


:sad-2:
 
:LOL: ... no need to look elsewhere,yourself is one (y)

Germanic and Celtic NW Europeans have NO desire of any kinship with you swarthy " third-world " Iberian people.

Spain has the LOWEST STATUS in the EU,cried one anti-Moors nationalist-Spaniard at one anthro-forum.

Hi Siurius2b = Malteseskid = Troll-Hattan = Luis77,

Cultural Cringe :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_cringe

Mexico
Mexico has experienced sustained cultural cringe dating back to the colonial period where European born people called Peninsulares or Gachupines, were privileged with access the best positions of authority and commerce while Mexican born Spaniards, even if they were 100% European with no indigenous admixture, were barred from such privileges. This lead to the suppression of Mexican developments in favor of importing everything from Europe such as: Machinery, Lawyers, governors, culture, art, science and the common world view among the colonists which was a facsimile of that of Europe.
Today the cultural cringe is still prevalent throughout Mexico where foreign cultures, attitudes, technologies, arts, and academics are seen much more favorably than Mexico's own indigenous scholars, technologies and artists. The result of this has been Brain drain as competent and talented Mexicans choose to move abroad, mostly to the U.S., where they can develop their skills and practice their talents. In the Mexican popular media, news anchors and variety show hosts, Telenovela actors and actresses are distinctly white despite the fact that most of the Mexican population is Mestizo or Indian. [27] This phenomenon still resonates the old colonial attitude of the Caste system which favored the European image, culture and aesthetics over Mexican development which it perceives as inferior or substandard.
 
:LOL: ... no need to look elsewhere,yourself is one (y)
Germanic and Celtic NW Europeans have NO desire of any kinship with you swarthy " third-world " Iberian people.
Spain has the LOWEST STATUS in the EU,cried one anti-Moors nationalist-Spaniard at one anthro-forum.

Find another hobby... :LOL:
 
why do the penelope cruz and antonio banderas type spaniards exist? are they still celtic? or is there another reason? i doubt penelope cruz or antonio banderas woud fit in dublin or glasgow scotland ! i mean irish are known for their blue eyes untannable skin and dark or red hair i agree on north and western parts of iberia having the celtic and basque connection but not all spaniards are celtic or basque people! people forget southern spain but madrid southwards people start looking like penelope cruz and antonio banderas and i dont think they look very "celtic" or "irish" ! im not saying they look moroccan or arabian or gypsy either but they certainly dont look northwest european i know tons of irish and welsh some have dark hair but none look like penelope cruz or antonio banderas so this celtic spanish thing is in error

Yet another thread dealing with the most scadalous and pressing European problem of our times...

"Are the Spaniards true whites or not?" :D :D :D


As you could see, @Maltesekid, these people (I mean @Wilhelm and @Lynx) are saying that you are a clone of me.

@Maciamo, the administrator of this forum could say that we are not the same user, since I am posting from Mexico and (apparently) you from the USA. A simple comparision between the IPs will show that probably we are separated geographically by hundreds of miles.

The truth is that there has been SEVERAL European/American users of this forum that question the claims of these racist users ( I have some evidence that at least one of them also post in StormFront.org ).

As you attested, the usual attitude of this people is automatic rudeness, slander and vulgarity. I understand them, since it is evident they are deeply hurt people, terribly insecure of their own identity.

I do not have problem that they continue to present their little colored maps, and their over-exposed photos ( :D ) to show to the big bad world the "racial purity of the hispanic race"... no problem at all.

But I guessed someone should explain to you the madness that your post, probably unwillingly, provoqued.

Regards.
 
I suspect that for any number of delusional types ALL photos of Iberians showing majority native phenotypes will be seen as "overexposed". "Golly gee, they don't really look like Arabs or swarthy Mediterraneans, GASP!...Can't be, must be the camera angle, the flash, yes?." :LOL:

I could post 1,000 other random group photographs of Iberians and, for some individuals, each and every frame would be considered "overexposed", because very few people in the images will correspond to the false or exaggerated media stereotypes dominant in their heads.

Give us all a break and cut the jejune comments, please. Your absurd statements about Spaniards and Portuguese continue to demonstrate just how racially compromised and faulty your thinking really is. If you are insecure or uncomfortable about your own ethnic identity, don't attempt to alleviate the negative sentiments you hold by categorizing others ("the Other') as something they clearly are not. Such behavior is a form of mental illness...
 
As you could see, @Maltesekid, these people (I mean @Wilhelm and @Lynx) are saying that you are a clone of me.

Yes, I'm sure it's just a coincidence that all these guys suddenly obsessed with iberians and their skin pigmentation (trollhattan, maltesekid and sirious) have come into the forum almost at the same time. And I'm also sure it's just a coincidence that you and malzetakid use to refer directly to Maciamo in the title of your threads. [/sarcasm: off]

It's a shame Maciamo closed my thread about latin american identity crisis due to your moans. I didn't write or link anything wrong. I know it's a sensitive issue for you and your people Sirious2b, your people haven't still faced the fact that they are mestizos, that some of them are descendents of rapped amerindian women by the spanish conquerors (that's the real problem we're facing here), I know it's a sensitive issue for you and I'm sorry. But Holocaust it's also a sensitive issue for jews and still they don't elude to talk about it or pass their time harassing germans all over internet in order to make childish assumptions about their skin or ethnic roots, they confront the Holocaust issue and talk about it. You guys should do the same about your History / present days, and wonder why things like these are happening in your society today:

ajkuuu.jpg

hv53dy.jpg

5ygevc.jpg

149niwi.jpg


Again I invite everyone to watch this interesting report: http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/fellows/chile_2008/ And to discuss about it like mature and adult persons (without clones).

1fjxx1.jpg

fachas-2.jpg

skinheads-mexico.jpg


Greetings.


PS: Have you already figured out what the Max Plank Society is, btw?
 
Yes, I'm sure it's just a coincidence that all these guys suddenly obsessed with iberians and their skin pigmentation (trollhattan, maltesekid and sirious) have come into the forum almost at the same time. And I'm also sure it's just a coincidence that you and malzetakid use to refer directly to Maciamo in the title of your threads. [/sarcasm: off]

No, it is not coincidence... I found someone of you in another popular forum, and refered to what was happening here just as a comment... but some people were interested.

More users for the foum of @Maciamo, I guess.

Try not to scare them off.

:useless:


It's a shame Maciamo closed my thread about latin american identity crisis due to your moans. I didn't write or link anything wrong. I know it's a sensitive issue for you and your people Sirious2b, your people haven't still faced the fact that they are mestizos, that some of them are descendents of rapped amerindian women by the spanish conquerors (that's the real problem we're facing here), I know it's a sensitive issue for you and I'm sorry. But Holocaust it's also a sensitive issue for jews and still they don't elude to talk about it or pass their time harassing germans all over internet in order to make childish assumptions about their skin or ethnic roots, they confront the Holocaust issue and talk about it. You guys should do the same about your History / present days, and wonder why things like these are happening in your society today.

Believe me that these themes are not of my interest. Nor the Iberians in this Forums are currently of my interest. They were for two or three topics, but now it is over...

It is YOU the one that has a hardwired problem in your brain, regarding us.

I will not even attempt to comment what you just written. See? : No interest.


PS: Have you already figured out what the Max Plank Society is, btw?

You try to appear "intelligent"... but you don't even know that there is a "Max Planck" and "Max Plank" institutes, in Germany.

One deals with Genetical Evolution-Anthropology (Planck).

The other, with Theoretical Physics (Plank).

Read things outside SF, don't be such an ignorant. :confused:
 
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