Illyrian-Albanian Continuity

[ukaj]

1. History says different.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasojevići


2. The name on the coin is not Gjon. How did you even get letter 'n' into George?
It's just South Slavic version of George:


Russian: Георгий (Georgy), Юрий (Yury/Yuri), Егор (Yegor/Egor)
Serbian:
Cyrillic: Ђорђе, Ђорђо, Ђукан, Ђурађ, Ђурђе, Ђоко, Ђока, Ђуро, Ђура
Latin: Đorđe, Đorđo, Đukan, Đurađ, Đurđe, Đoko, Đoka, Đuro, Đura
Albanian: Gjergj, Jorgo, Gjorgj


The insription is Cyrillic for something belonging of Гюрга Н Балше. Transliterated it would be "Giurgia Balshe" or in English where there is no cases "of Giurg Balsha".
Since that /g/ is being red as /dz/ it is spoken /Dz-u-r-dz/ = Georg.

You are misguiding people by using the term 'some' which is correct when regarded to the whole Slavic population, but totally wrong when regarded to Albanians.

I believe you, that you believe that.


This is the reason why you believe it. False data. Where did you get that number?
Gusle are connected with Dinaric region, and are played throughout all Western Balkans from Slovenia down to Albania. Best bet is probably Hg I.

If you listen carefully (for two minutes of both) you can hear the difference between Croatian (posted up) or Montenegrin vocal melodies, contrasted to Albanian vocal melodies, which have obvious non-European source:
(note: This doesn't necessarily mean the same for Albanian nation, Hg or language!)

Once again, you're feud is not with me, but with Montenegrin clan of Vasojevichi. Go tell that to them. They had it written different in their books.

do you not see the writing?an my feud is to you who are claiming hoti my tribe to be slav,You are telling me i belive in false data?really say you when all you do is post from wiki wow.i posted this from albanians of italia arbreshe who have these documented,what you think the romans didnt document us??an the war with the ottmans wow you are retarded more than i thought,i can post so much stuff from the albanians of italia the nobal familys crests,did you know the double headed eagle wasnt always red an black acording to the abreshe of italia it was yellow an black,,

 

[ukaj]

do you not see the writing?an my feud is to you who are claiming hoti my tribe to be slav,You are telling me i belive in false data?really say you when all you do is post from wiki wow.i posted this from albanians of italia arbreshe who have these documented,what you think the romans didnt document us??an the war with the ottmans wow you are retarded more than i thought,i can post so much stuff from the albanians of italia the nobal familys crests,did you know the double headed eagle wasnt always red an black acording to the abreshe of italia it was yellow an black,,

The insription is Cyrillic for something belonging of Гюрга Н Балше. Transliterated it would be "Giurgia Balshe" or in English where there is no cases "of Giurg Balsha".
Since that /g/ is being red as /dz/ it is spoken /Dz-u-r-dz/ = Georg. thanks you have proved my point right their,BALSHA YOU SAY IT TRANSLATE TO THE,BALSHA IS A ALBANIAN SURNAME AN FIRST NAME ,THIS IS WHY THEY CANT PROOF WHO THESE PEOPLE WERE,,THEY THOUGHT VLACH,ALBANIAN,SLAV,FRENCH BUT AS FOR TRANSLATION POINT TAKEN THEIR,,BALSHA IS THE HEAD OF KRASNICHI,LOL..NOT ALWAY WERE ALBANIANS AN SERBS ENEMYS ,SLAV HAS MISLEAD THE LANDS OF WHERE ALBANIANS LIVE JUST TO CLAIM LAND MY FRIEND,,

 

[ukaj]

do you not see the writing?an my feud is to you who are claiming hoti my tribe to be slav,You are telling me i belive in false data?really say you when all you do is post from wiki wow.i posted this from albanians of italia arbreshe who have these documented,what you think the romans didnt document us??an the war with the ottmans wow you are retarded more than i thought,i can post so much stuff from the albanians of italia the nobal familys crests,did you know the double headed eagle wasnt always red an black acording to the abreshe of italia it was yellow an black,,

SLAV WORD FOR GEORGE IS Džordž,DONT FORGET TO TRANSLATE THE OTHER 3 O POSTED LOOOL..
hear is where this vaschechi propaganda started,
the theory of vaoyecvich and krasniqi tribe being the same blood , first came from prince of the vasoyevichi tribe , princ nikola. in the 19 century, alot of publications were made at that time from our slav neighbour to use different techniques of assimilation of the highland clans by falsifying documents and create claims that they were slavs in origin but were assimilated by albanians,The following families were of albanian origins that ruled montenegro, but today serbs claim them as their own, Balsha became Balsic, Gjura Gjuric.you have to keep in mind the border lines between montenegro and albania were not as they are today technically in theory there was no border because it was all ottoman empire so in theory there was no borders so tribes were able to move freely and conquer lands depending on their strengths, the krasniqi were major rivals with vasoyevichi, but according to them they are blood relatives amongst each other, but in my view this is just serbian proganda for pan slavist movement,Ziu became Crnojevic.

 

[ukaj]

The Hellenic coast (colonies/expansion) was already under extreme attack/presssure by the Illyrians in the late 3rd cen BC; Queen Teuta led a campaign against Epidamnus, Corcyra (Corfu) and Apollonia and the crushing Illyrian victory over the Achaean/Aetolian league led to the taking of Corfu and successive siege of Epidamnus;

Polybius II/X
The Illyrians lashed their boats together in batches of four and thus engaged the enemy. They sacrificed their own boats, presenting them broadside to their adversaries in a position favouring their charge, but when the enemy's ships had charged and struck them and getting fixed in them, found themselves in difficulties, as in each case the four boats lashed together were hanging on to their beaks, the marines leapt on to the decks of the Achaean ships and overmastered them by their numbers. In this way they captured four quadriremes and sunk with all hands a quinquereme, on board of which was Margus of Keryneia, a man who up to the end served the Achaeans most loyally. The ships that were engaged with the Acarnanians, seeing the success of the Illyrians, and trusting to their speed, made sail with a fair wind and escaped home in safety....The Illyrian forces, highly elated by their success, continued the siege with more security and confidence, and the Corcyreans, whose hopes were crushed by the repulse of their allies, after enduring the siege for a short time longer, came to terms with the Illyrians....After this the Illyrian commanders at once sailed off and coming to anchor at Epidamnus, again set themselves to besiege that city.

This ultimately led to the Roman intervention - and the Illyrian Parthini who dwelled in the hinterland (not coast) of the Greek colonies (Epidamnus/Apollonia) allied themselves with Rome; And after the 2nd Punic-war and during the 2nd cen BC the Romans took control over the entire Epidamian-coast (Greek colonies) and the entire Epidamnian-hinterland (Illyrian tribes);

What is interesting is that in throughout all Antiquity the Epidamian (Illyrian tribal) area remained under strong Hellenic influence and all north of Lissos was than stronger under Roman/Latin influence;

Jireček-Line -

very interesting but i belive the line was a little lower because when king zog was around the official language was gheg albanian witch is latin,

 

[Ike]

please ike,I go so far because i know very well what happens if a serb woman falls in love with serbian itstill excists today,,yes maybe this albanian family member was banished from her or his family,so dont put words in my mouth please i know of the laws of kanuni i lek dukagjini it is tattooed on my arm,an my whole family follows it,,

The video states for itself. And you should get rid of that stuff on your arm, before you convince your grandsons about "an old Albanian tattooing craft dating back to pre-Roman times".

do you not see the writing?an my feud is to you who are claiming hoti my tribe to be slav,You are telling me i belive in false data?really say you when all you do is post from wiki wow.i posted this from albanians of italia arbreshe who have these documented,what you think the romans didnt document us??an the war with the ottmans wow you are retarded more than i thought,i can post so much stuff from the albanians of italia the nobal familys crests,did you know the double headed eagle wasnt always red an black acording to the abreshe of italia it was yellow an black,,

Why would I believe Italians, when we have descendants of the that family line who have it written down centuries ago. It's not my fault Albanians didn't have a writing system almost up to 100 years ago, and they have to write everything others tell them. It is so boring that Albanians are reviving this romantic nationalism ideas in 21st century.

thanks you have proved my point right their,BALSHA YOU SAY IT TRANSLATE TO THE,BALSHA IS A ALBANIAN SURNAME AN FIRST NAME ,THIS IS WHY THEY CANT PROOF WHO THESE PEOPLE WERE,,THEY THOUGHT VLACH,ALBANIAN,SLAV,FRENCH BUT AS FOR TRANSLATION POINT TAKEN THEIR,, BALSHA IS THE HEAD OF KRASNICHI,LOL..NOT ALWAY WERE ALBANIANS AN SERBS ENEMYS ,SLAV HAS MISLEAD THE LANDS OF WHERE ALBANIANS LIVE JUST TO CLAIM LAND MY FRIEND,,

Yes, and as we know from linguistics Krasnichi is Slavic surname Krasnich that was just Albanized Montenegrins remember those times.

hear is where this vaschechi propaganda started,
the theory of vaoyecvich and krasniqi tribe being the same blood , first came from prince of the vasoyevichi tribe , princ nikola. in the 19 century, alot of publications were made at that time from our slav neighbour to use different techniques of assimilation of the highland clans by falsifying documents and create claims that they were slavs in origin but were assimilated by albanians,The following families were of albanian origins that ruled montenegro, but today serbs claim them as their own, Balsha became Balsic, Gjura Gjuric.you have to keep in mind the border lines between montenegro and albania were not as they are today technically in theory there was no border because it was all ottoman empire so in theory there was no borders so tribes were able to move freely and conquer lands depending on their strengths, the krasniqi were major rivals with vasoyevichi, but according to them they are blood relatives amongst each other, but in my view this is just serbian proganda for pan slavist movement,Ziu became Crnojevic.

1. Yes, and you seem to be adopting it, with just one little change - all is true, they are blood relatives, but they are all Albanian. If you really believe that theory was invented in 19th century, you would have disregarded it as a whole, and not take it and reshape it. That shows what kind of person are you.

2. Gjura Yes, Slavic consonants like Đ or Ć are hard for others to grasp, that's why we see constructions like gjura, dukagjin, krashichi, and foreign people bending their mouth trying to pronounce it.

Basha is the name, Balshic (meaning descendants of Balsa) is the surname. Like John and Johnson in the UK. So, stop making these crazy assumptions. If it was a foreign name like Greek Alexandros, it would be nationalized like Alexander> Alexandric but it would be obvious that the root is not Slavic.


It is written down who Balshics are. If you want the rest of us to believe your theories you have to prove them. For example, you can start by deciphering Iberian:

3. Ziu became Crn? And went all the way to Vladivostok? So all Slavic people are saying crn (black) because they've heard it from Albanians? Or was it the other way around more logical?

If your theory is right, that would mean that Balkan was the cradle of Slavic language from which where it spread to the rest of the Slavic population. It may be that you believe Klyosov is right and that all Slavs are really from Kosovo dating back 9000 years ago?

 

[kamani]

Taken from Herodotus:
“The Hellenic race has never, since its first origin, changed its speech. This at least seems evident to me. It was a branch of the Pelasgic, which separated from the main body, and at first was scanty in numbers and of little power; but it gradually spread and increased to a multitude of nations, chiefly by the voluntary entrance into its ranks of numerous tribes of barbarians. (The Histories, Clio, LVIII)

So these "Barbarians" could have been nobody else but early Illyrians and Thracians. And who has a mountain isolated population (Ghegs) that autosomally scores 99% Balkan on 23AndMe and is 50% E-V13? Albanians. The proof is like the sun shining in your face. Genetics don't lie..

 

[ukaj]

The video states for itself. And you should get rid of that stuff on your arm, before you convince your grandsons about "an old Albanian tattooing craft dating back to pre-Roman times".




Why would I believe Italians, when we have descendants of the that family line who have it written down centuries ago. It's not my fault Albanians didn't have a writing system almost up to 100 years ago, and they have to write everything others tell them. It is so boring that Albanians are reviving this romantic nationalism ideas in 21st century.




Yes, and as we know from linguistics Krasnichi is Slavic surname Krasnich that was just Albanized Montenegrins remember those times.





1. Yes, and you seem to be adopting it, with just one little change - all is true, they are blood relatives, but they are all Albanian. If you really believe that theory was invented in 19th century, you would have disregarded it as a whole, and not take it and reshape it. That shows what kind of person are you.

2. Gjura Yes, Slavic consonants like Đ or Ć are hard for others to grasp, that's why we see constructions like gjura, dukagjin, krashichi, and foreign people bending their mouth trying to pronounce it.

Basha is the name, Balshic (meaning descendants of Balsa) is the surname. Like John and Johnson in the UK. So, stop making these crazy assumptions. If it was a foreign name like Greek Alexandros, it would be nationalized like Alexander> Alexandric but it would be obvious that the root is not Slavic.


It is written down who Balshics are. If you want the rest of us to believe your theories you have to prove them. For example, you can start by deciphering Iberian:

3. Ziu became Crn? And went all the way to Vladivostok? So all Slavic people are saying crn (black) because they've heard it from Albanians? Or was it the other way around more logical?

If your theory is right, that would mean that Balkan was the cradle of Slavic language from which where it spread to the rest of the Slavic population. It may be that you believe Klyosov is right and that all Slavs are really from Kosovo dating back 9000 years ago?

hahah ike.krasnichi isnt slavs they dont look anything like slavs the krasnich tirbe who are catholic in troopoja speak albanian,then the krasnichi whom turned to islam speak albanian in kosova..do you have any idea of how big the assimulation would have been?if thats the case nearly all of kosova would have been slav?but my friend genetics language etc says a diffrent story,as for ZIU IT STILL IS ALBANIAN WORD AS IS NIS AN MANY OTHER WORDS, BALSIC WAS WRITEN DOWN IN THE 19THCTRY MY FRIEND,It was aruged by many historians,1 being frasher demaj an many others with proof,, AS FOR 19CTRY THEN SHOW ME PROOF YOU WILL FIND ON WIKI IT WILL SAY WHERE THEY ARE FROM BUT THEN THEY ARE UNSURE,Assimulation at its best right their,,the serbian language ads a ic to end of albanian names then you have a slav name,,come on man,pure propaganda,if they were slavs then they had 200 years to be completly slav,,as for dukagjini please dont start on that,they were a nobal family that the arbreshe have written down,Gjura GJINI GJINE,GJETALBANIAN WORDS Yes, Slavic consonants like Đ or Ć are hard for others to grasp, that's why we see constructions like gjura, dukagjin, krashichi, <<< please that is the bigest fail,, GJINGJEN,GJURA,,GURA.J IS ALWAYS SILENT IN ALBANIAN LANGUAGE,,ZIA MEAN BLACK,,
. Ziu became Crn?IT CANT BECOME ZIU BECAUSE ZIU ZI,IS A PRE INDOEUROPEAN WORD,,CRN TO FUNNY,,ALBANIAN LANGUAGE HOLDS ALOT OF PIE MORE THAN LANGUAGES IN BALKANS,,

 

[Ike]

hahah ike.krasnichi isnt slavs they dont look anything like slavs the krasnich tirbe who are catholic in troopoja speak albanian,then the krasnichi whom turned to islam speak albanian in kosova..do you have any idea of how big the assimulation would have been?if thats the case nearly all of kosova would have been slav?but my friend genetics language etc says a diffrent story,

Krasnih is pure Slavic name. If they were of some other ethnicity before they were Slavonized, they probably weren't Albanian. There is not even one single evidence Albanians existed in pre Slavic times, or that Albanian language was spoken anywhere. If you want to say that Krasnici were Albanian before they were hypothetically Slavnozed in like 8th century, you'd first have to prove that Albanians in fact existed on the territory where Krasnichi lived then.

as for ZIU IT STILL IS ALBANIAN WORD AS IS NIS AN MANY OTHER WORDS, BALSIC WAS WRITEN DOWN IN THE 19THCTRY MY FRIEND,It was aruged by many historians,1 being frasher demaj an many others with proof,, AS FOR 19CTRY THEN SHOW ME PROOF YOU WILL FIND ON WIKI IT WILL SAY WHERE THEY ARE FROM BUT THEN THEY ARE UNSURE,Assimulation at its best right their,,the serbian language ads a ic to end of albanian names then you have a slav name,,come on man,pure propaganda,if they were slavs then they had 200 years to be completly slav,,

Yes there is a possibility they were not of Slavic ethnicity, but they just spoke Slavic language. But you're the one who claims to know what happened 12 centuries ago. So, go ahead and prove it. I'm not stopping you.

GJEN,GJURA,,GURA.J IS ALWAYS SILENT IN ALBANIAN LANGUAGE,,ZIA MEAN BLACK,,

So why do you write it then? Why didn't you choose to write G%EN, G%URA, or GBEN, GBURA, if that second letter is silent?
You're trying to tell me that, of all the letters of the alphabet, and all the other symbols you could have chosen, it is pure coincidence that you chose /J/ and that it is pure coincidence that it sounds proper when spoken on Slavic, but only in combination with that very /J/ ?!

,Ziu became Crnojevic.

. Ziu became Crn?IT CANT BECOME ZIU BECAUSE ZIU ZI,IS A PRE INDOEUROPEAN WORD,,CRN TO FUNNY,,ALBANIAN LANGUAGE HOLDS ALOT OF PIE MORE THAN LANGUAGES IN BALKANS,,

Will you please get a hold of yourself, you've made two contradictory statements in last few posts. You're so eager to make your theories fit the reality, but you just can't make it all the way. You're getting sloppy.

 

[ukaj]

Krasnih is pure Slavic name. If they were of some other ethnicity before they were Slavonized, they probably weren't Albanian. There is not even one single evidence Albanians existed in pre Slavic times, or that Albanian language was spoken anywhere. If you want to say that Krasnici were Albanian before they were hypothetically Slavnozed in like 8th century, you'd first have to prove that Albanians in fact existed on the territory where Krasnichi lived then.



Yes there is a possibility they were not of Slavic ethnicity, but they just spoke Slavic language. But you're the one who claims to know what happened 12 centuries ago. So, go ahead and prove it. I'm not stopping you.

So why do you write it then? Why didn't you choose to write G%EN, G%URA, or GBEN, GBURA, if that second letter is silent?
You're trying to tell me that, of all the letters of the alphabet, and all the other symbols you could have chosen, it is pure coincidence that you chose /J/ and that it is pure coincidence that it sounds proper when spoken on Slavic, but only in combination with that very /J/ ?!





Will you please get a hold of yourself, you've made two contradictory statements in last few posts. You're so eager to make your theories fit the reality, but you just can't make it all the way. You're getting sloppy.

Sorry if i use the slav word,as i thought using slav word is short for slavnic,,that isnt true ike the kelmendi tribe was recorded in 13thctry as catholic albanians,,yes it is little strange my friend,but if krashicqi tribe are indeed slavnic then that means all of the albanian tribes are slavnics witch my friend is very doubtful,remeber albanians were not always enemys of slavnics,we use gura also,but it is very much albanian GUR IN ALBANIAN MEANS STONE IT IS A PRE INDO WORD AN ITS FOUND IN SOUTH ALBANIA.JUST AS NIS IN SERBIA IT MEANS BEGINNING IN ALBANIAN,DONT FORGET GHEGS USE LATIN,,,,SO If what you say is to be true then,krasnichi,an the intire hoti tribe,an kelmendi dukagjinit,mirdita treisha,are all serbians, this is what you are basicly telling me,an if that is the case then albanian gheg is serbian language that use must have once spoke witch i highly doubt my friend,propaganda at its best right their,,kras may be slav word as you say,,krasniqi ,but niqi is albanian word also KEQI MEANS BAD THIS IS WHERE THE REST OF THE TRIBE COMES FROM,an their is arbanties settlement called muriqi in greece,an also kelmendi village in greece,so my frien this talk is silly you tryed to prove that tribe of krasnichi is slavnic an if thats the case then the whole tribe of hoti are slavnics,,sorry my friend but a very stupid statement,

 

[ukaj]

Krasnih is pure Slavic name. If they were of some other ethnicity before they were Slavonized, they probably weren't Albanian. There is not even one single evidence Albanians existed in pre Slavic times, or that Albanian language was spoken anywhere. If you want to say that Krasnici were Albanian before they were hypothetically Slavnozed in like 8th century, you'd first have to prove that Albanians in fact existed on the territory where Krasnichi lived then.



Yes there is a possibility they were not of Slavic ethnicity, but they just spoke Slavic language. But you're the one who claims to know what happened 12 centuries ago. So, go ahead and prove it. I'm not stopping you.

So why do you write it then? Why didn't you choose to write G%EN, G%URA, or GBEN, GBURA, if that second letter is silent?
You're trying to tell me that, of all the letters of the alphabet, and all the other symbols you could have chosen, it is pure coincidence that you chose /J/ and that it is pure coincidence that it sounds proper when spoken on Slavic, but only in combination with that very /J/ ?!





Will you please get a hold of yourself, you've made two contradictory statements in last few posts. You're so eager to make your theories fit the reality, but you just can't make it all the way. You're getting sloppy.

IKE HOW CAN I BE SLOPPY WHEN THE WHOLE INTIRE GHEG POPULATIONS COMES FROM NORTH ALBANIA,I KNOW WHAT I KNOW ONE SLAVNIC CAME UP WITH THIS PROPAGANDA AN MY CUSIN DEBATED WITH HIM AN PUT HIM IN HIS SPOT,.I DONT CARE WHAT WIKI SAY MY FRIEND I CAN CHANGE ANYTHING ON WIKI TO SUIT MYSELF ALSO,,THE PICTURES I HAVE SHOWED YOU WERE EASY EXPLAIN ALSO AS BALSHA IS ALBANIAN NOT SLAVNIC..you'd first have to prove that Albanians in fact existed on the territory where Krasnichi lived then.I DONT HAVE TO MY FRIEND KELMENDI WAS ALREADY SPOKEN OF..GO READ SOME BOOKS AN NOT WIKI,,

 

[ukaj]

Being evangelized by Roman missionaries, the Albanians did not have a national church of their own similar to that of the Slavs. Pressed by the Greeks in the south and by the Slavs elsewhere their conversion to Islam seems to have been a means to preserve their national identity. >>>>"Gjurme e Gjurmine<<<<interesting words dont you think,,gjurme means traces,gjuhë "tongue" is gluhë in Çam, gluhë in Arberësh, and gljuhë in Arvanitika

• q/gj: In the Gheg dialects, q and gj may remain palatal stops [c] and [ɟ], change to postalveolar affricates [t͡ʃ] and [d͡ʒ] (and thus merging with Albanian ç and xh), change to alveolo-palatal affricates [t͡ɕ] and [d͡ʑ], or even change to alveolo-palatal fricatives [ɕ] and [ʑ].
• tj/dj: These may become palatal stops [c] and [ɟ] in some dialects.
• Gheg retains the nasal vowels of late Proto-Albanian and the late Proto-Albanian *â plus a nasal remains â (e.g. nândë "nine"). Although, the quality of the vowel varies by dialect, [ɑ̃], [ɒ̃], [ɔ̃], etc. Some Northeast and Northwest Gheg dialects preserve the nasal in words such as [pɛ̃s] "five" while other Gheg dialects do not, [pɛs] "five".
• Monophthongization: Occurs in some dialects of Shkodër in a few words (e.g. [vø̞ː] voe "egg") and [hɛ̞ː] hae "food".
• Phonological vowel length: There is often phonological vowel length in most Gheg dialects. Some dialects of Shkodër have a three length distinction in vowels, for example, short: [pɛ̃nˠ] "yoke", long: [pɛ̃ːnˠ] "pen", and extra-long: [pɛ̃ːːnˠ] "yokes".
• a-vowel: In some dialects occurring in some certain words a may become a diphthong (e.g. [bəaɫ] for ballë "forehead") or become [æ] (e.g. [læɾɡ] for larg "far").
• ë-vowel: Final -ë drops and often lengthens the preceding vowel.
• i-vowel: The i vowel in the word dhi (goat) can be realized as various vowels in the Central Gheg dialects: [ðəi] (Krujë), [ðei] (Mountainous Krujë), [ðɛi] or [ðei] (Mat), as well as [ðai] or [ðɔi] in other regions.
• o-vowel: The o derounds to [ʌ] in some words in some dialects (e.g. [sʌt] for sot "today" in Krujë and among some Muslims speakers in Shkodër).
• u-vowel: The u vowel in different dialects occurring some words may vary, for example rrush "grape" may be [ruʃ], [rauʃ], [rɔuʃ], [rɔʃ], or [roʃ].
• y-vowel: The y vowel can remain as y (e.g. dy "two" in much of the Gheg speaking areas), derounded to i (e.g. [di] "two" in Debar), or becomes more open and less rounded to [ʏ̜] (e.g. [dʏ̜] "two" in Mat and Mountainous Krujë). In other words in Central Gheg the y vowel can become [ø] as in [sø] for sy "eye" (Mat and Krujë).
• bj/pj: These may yield bgj or pq in some dialects (e.g. pqeshkë for pjeshkë "peach" in Negotin).
• bl/pl/fl: These may become bj/pj/fj or even bgj/pq in some dialects (e.g. pjak for plak "old" in Toplica or pqak for plak "old" in Negotin).
• dh and ll: These sounds may interchange in some words in some dialects.
• h: This may drop in any position in some dialects.
• mb/nd: Consonant clusters such as nd vary greatly by sub-dialect: nder "honor" can realized as [ndɛɾ], [nd͉ɛɾ], [ⁿdɛɾ], [dɛɾ], [nɛɾ], or [nˠɛɾ].
• q/gj: In the Gheg dialects, q and gj may remain palatal stops [c] and [ɟ], change to postalveolar affricates [t͡ʃ] and [d͡ʒ] (and thus merging with Albanian ç and xh), change to alveolo-palatal affricates [t͡ɕ] and [d͡ʑ], or even change to alveolo-palatal fricatives [ɕ] and [ʑ].
• tj/dj: These may become palatal stops [c] and [ɟ] in some dialects.

,My friend you really have no idea about albanian language,,lol,anyway we will leave this subject because we both will not stop..lol by the wasy krasnichi tribe is from shkodra area troopoja, In Stefan Dušan's Code of Laws, there are indications that those who had links with Rome were persecuted. According to Law no. 6, "The ecclesiastical authority must strive to convert such (i.e., Catholics) to the true faith. If such a one will not be converted..., he shall be punished by death. The Orthodox Tsar must eradicate all heresy from his state. The property of all such as refuse conversions shall be confiscated... Heretical churches will be consecrated and open to priests of Orthodox faith".
According to Law no. 8, "If a Latin priest be found trying to convert a Christian to the Latin faith, he shall be punished by death".
According to Law no. 10, "If a heretic be found dwelling with the Christian he shall be marked on the face and expelled. Any sheltering him be treated the same way".93
It is evident that under such rigid laws it must not have been easy for the Kosovars to keep their ties with Rome. In fact, the recent examination of Turkish catastral registers has revealed that in the 15th and 16th centuries many Albanians in Kosova were Orthodox.94
It goes without saying that the Albanians were not persecuted merely on religious grounds. In fact, in 1332, Father Brocardus (Gulielmus Adae, a French Dominican, Archbishop of Antebari) remarked that "The Albanoi are oppressed under the intolerable and very hard servitude of the most hateful and abominable lordship of the Slavs because they are overburdened with taxes, their clergy is lowered and humbled, their bishops and abbots often imprisoned, their monastery and priests lost and destroyed, their nobles deprived of their possessions".95
These persecutions against the Catholic Albanians continued during the Turkish occupation.
The Yugoslav scholar Jovan Radonic (Rimska Kurija i Juznoslavenske zemlje XVI-XIX veka, Beograd 1950,pp. 269, 473, 511-512) has revealed that the Patriarch of Peja had the authorization of the Porte to place the Catholics under his jurisdiction, threatening to impale the Albanians who would dare to address themselves to the Pope.
In 1664, Andre Bogdani, Archbishop of Shkup (Skopje), informed his congregation in Rome that the Albanians were more persecuted by the Orthodox Church than by the Turks (see Mark Krasniqi "Les Albanais dans l'oevre d'un diplomate russe", "Gjurme e Gjurmine, Prishtine, 1979, pp. 291-391).
The question of religion is, indeed, closely related to that dealing with national identity.
Being evangelized by Roman missionaries, this is whay vaschechi turned orthodox...

 

[Ike]

,that isnt true ike the kelmendi tribe was recorded in 13thctry as catholic albanians,,yes it is little strange my friend,but if krashicqi tribe are indeed slavnic then that means all of the albanian tribes are slavnics witch my friend is very doubtful,remeber albanians were not always enemys of slavnics,

Only thing you do is trying to prove that Krasnichi are not Slavic. OK, lets say I agree with you.
But even that doesn't say anything about them being Albanian. You've only come to the point where it's equally not possible that Krasnichi are Slavic or Albanian.

we use gura also,but it is very much albanian GUR IN ALBANIAN MEANS STONE IT IS A PRE INDO WORD AN ITS FOUND IN SOUTH ALBANIA.JUST AS NIS IN SERBIA IT MEANS BEGINNING IN ALBANIAN,DONT FORGET GHEGS USE LATIN,,,,

I'm sure that GURA has a meaning in 90% languages of the world.

SO If what you say is to be true then,krasnichi,an the intire hoti tribe,an kelmendi dukagjinit,mirdita treisha,are all serbians,

I'm not saying that. I only know what I heard from Montenegrins about Hoti and Krasnichi. They are blood brother tribes of their Montenegrin clan.
It seems very probable that Montenegrin Hoti and Krasnichi have mingled too much with real ethnic Albanians and became like >70% Albanian, while Piperi, Vasojevici and Ozrinici have only like 20% Albanian .

this is what you are basicly telling me,an if that is the case then albanian gheg is serbian language that use must have once spoke witch i highly doubt my friend,propaganda at its best right their,,

Never had I say anything like that. I don't know Albanian, but it is obvious that it's not Slavic origin. It's up to you to find out the roots of your language. First Albanology theories of 1930's are now outdated in scientific circles, and the sheer fact of existence of mountain people with weird language is not enough to be the proof of the language origin.

kras may be slav word as you say,,krasniqi ,but niqi is albanian word also KEQI MEANS BAD THIS IS WHERE THE REST OF THE TRIBE COMES FROM,an their is arbanties settlement called muriqi in greece,an also kelmendi village in greece,so my frien this talk is silly you tryed to prove that tribe of krasnichi is slavnic an if thats the case then the whole tribe of hoti are slavnics,,sorry my friend but a very stupid statement,

Linguistics is this time not on your side :/
Ethnically, I don't know, but I believe Montenegrin's writings for now. If you don't like my statement, don't tell me that, iIt won't change what's written in the books. Do you understand that part?
If you want the books to be rewritten, you have to present serious facts that would predate Montenegrin writings.

 

[Ike]

Taken from Herodotus:
“The Hellenic race has never, since its first origin, changed its speech. This at least seems evident to me. It was a branch of the Pelasgic, which separated from the main body, and at first was scanty in numbers and of little power; but it gradually spread and increased to a multitude of nations, chiefly by the voluntary entrance into its ranks of numerous tribes of barbarians. (The Histories, Clio, LVIII)

So these "Barbarians" could have been nobody else but early Illyrians and Thracians. And who has a mountain isolated population (Ghegs) that autosomally scores 99% Balkan on 23AndMe and is 50% E-V13? Albanians. The proof is like the sun shining in your face. Genetics don't lie..

Ok, lets start with Pelasgians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelasgus


"In Aeschylus' play The Suppliants the Danaids fleeing from Egypt seek asylum from King Pelasgus of Argos, which he says is on the Strymon including Perrhaebia in the north, Dodona and the slopes of the Pindus mountains on the west and the shores of the sea on the east that is, a territory including or north of the Thessalian Pelasgiotis. The southern boundary is not mentioned; however, Apis is said to have come to Argos from Naupactus "across" (peras) implying that Argos includes all of east Greece from the north of Thessaly to the Peloponnesian Argos, where the Danaids are probably to be conceived as having landed. He claims to rule the Pelasgians and to be the "child of Palaichthon ('ancient earth') whom the earth brought forth."

The Danaids call the country the "Apian hills" and claim that it understands the karbana audan,[7][8] which many translate as "barbarian speech" but Karba (where live the Karbanoi) is in fact a non-Greek word. They claim to descend from ancestors in ancient Argos even though they are of a "dark race" (melanthes ... genos).[9] Pelasgus admits that the land was once called Apia but compares them to the women of Libya and Egypt[10] and wants to know how they can be from Argos on which they cite descent from Io.

In a lost play by Aeschylus, Danaan Women, he defines the original homeland of the Pelasgians as the region around Mycenae"


Someone is talking about some dark race and some Karbanoi people. Interesting, since you've pointed out E-V13 origin of Albanians...
And it's called "barbarian speech" even by Pelasgians. That's your best bet for Albanian so far.

 

[kamani]

Someone is talking about some dark race and some Karbanoi people. Interesting, since you've pointed out E-V13 origin of Albanians...
And it's called "barbarian speech" even by Pelasgians. That's your best bet for Albanian so far.

How do you know E-v13 was dark at 2000 BC? Just because E-m78 was traced to Egypt 22000 year ago! Studies mentioned in this forum are saying that white skin happened after the Neolithic farmers brought agriculture, and E-v13 was in Europe in the Neolithic around the areas where agriculture was introduced first. So chances are, not only it wasn't dark, but it was one of the first people that became white.

 

[Ike]

How do you know E-v13 was dark at 2000 BC?

I don't. I said that you should investigate. It could be of importance to you. If you don't want, it's fine with me. After all, you're the on who said:

So chances are, not only it wasn't dark, but it was one of the first people that became white.

which means that you admit the possibility of E-V13 being black at some point.

 

[Nobody1]

very interesting but i belive the line was a little lower because when king zog was around the official language was gheg albanian witch is latin,

Could very well be;
But keep in mind this is just 'Influence' i.e. administration language based on authority inscriptions;
This is not 'Native tongues' the Native tongues Illyrian/Thracian were not replaced by the influence - only under influence;

@ Sile

The Parthini and Taulantii were always described as Illyrian (Appian Ill.I/Thucydides I/XXIV/Strabo VII/VII) and dwelling in the hinterland of Epidamnus; Something happened during Philip II Macedon and Pleuratus I times (late 4th cen BC) because after the Roman victory over Philip V Macedon (Cynoscephalae 197BC) the Illyrian nations under Macedon were given to the Illyrian noble Pleuratus III;

Livius - XXXIII/XXXIV
Lycus and Parthinia, Illyrian states,
each of which had been under subjection to Philip,
were given to Pleuratus,

The Parthini are later recorded (Appian BEL.CIV V/LXXV) to be allies of Brutus;

 

[ukaj]

Could very well be;
But keep in mind this is just 'Influence' i.e. administration language based on authority inscriptions;
This is not 'Native tongues' the Native tongues Illyrian/Thracian were not replaced by the influence - only under influence;

@ Sile

The Parthini and Taulantii were always described as Illyrian (Appian Ill.I/Thucydides I/XXIV/Strabo VII/VII) and dwelling in the hinterland of Epidamnus; Something happened during Philip II Macedon and Pleuratus I times (late 4th cen BC) because after the Roman victory over Philip V Macedon (Cynoscephalae 197BC) the Illyrian nations under Macedon were given to the Illyrian noble Pleuratus III;

Livius - XXXIII/XXXIV
Lycus and Parthinia, Illyrian states,
each of which had been under subjection to Philip,
were given to Pleuratus,

The Parthini are later recorded (Appian BEL.CIV V/LXXV) to be allies of Brutus;

Interesting.but i know that the albanian language of all albania when king zog was around spoke gheg albanian,,Take this Elbasan in albania central is population of gheg albanian that is pretty low,,but from what i was thought from my cusin he said that the albanian language an the people only spoke gheg albanian but southern albanians were influenced by the greek alphabet,the albanians used latin before adopting greek alphabet not only due from the latin alphabet but due to influence of the natives whom were mainly spoke latin of balkans,the illyrians used latin as they shared places in balkans such as nis,then the thracians also used latin,

 

[ukaj]

Only thing you do is trying to prove that Krasnichi are not Slavic. OK, lets say I agree with you.
But even that doesn't say anything about them being Albanian. You've only come to the point where it's equally not possible that Krasnichi are Slavic or Albanian.



I'm sure that GURA has a meaning in 90% languages of the world.



I'm not saying that. I only know what I heard from Montenegrins about Hoti and Krasnichi. They are blood brother tribes of their Montenegrin clan.
It seems very probable that Montenegrin Hoti and Krasnichi have mingled too much with real ethnic Albanians and became like >70% Albanian, while Piperi, Vasojevici and Ozrinici have only like 20% Albanian .


Never had I say anything like that. I don't know Albanian, but it is obvious that it's not Slavic origin. It's up to you to find out the roots of your language. First Albanology theories of 1930's are now outdated in scientific circles, and the sheer fact of existence of mountain people with weird language is not enough to be the proof of the language origin.



Linguistics is this time not on your side :/
Ethnically, I don't know, but I believe Montenegrin's writings for now. If you don't like my statement, don't tell me that, iIt won't change what's written in the books. Do you understand that part?
If you want the books to be rewritten, you have to present serious facts that would predate Montenegrin writings.

Only thing you do is trying to prove that Krasnichi are not Slavic. OK, lets say I agree with you.
But even that doesn't say anything about them being Albanian. You've only come to the point where it's equally not possible that Krasnichi are Slavic or Albanian.ha lol we are talking about 300 thousand albanians from krasnichi or krasniqi, it just isnt possiable to assimulate that many albanians,then you have another million albanians whom are from northern tribes,infact ALL GHEG ALBANIANS ARE FROM TRIBES OF NORTH ALBANIA,DO YOU NOT SEE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING?YOU ARE BASICLY SAYING GHEG ALBANIANS ARE ALL SLAVNICS,HEAR IS WHY ITS NOT POSSIABLE,1 THE GHEG ALBANIAN LANGUAGE OUTDATES THE SERBIAN LANGUAGE AN ANY SLAV LANGUAGE FROM BALKANS DONT EVEN ARGUE THAT WITH ME,,2 THE PRE INDOEUROPEAN NASAL VOWELS ARE DIFFRENT,THE ALBANIAN LANGUAGE IS MORE INFLUENCED MORE THAN ANY LANGUAGE OF BALKANS OF THE ABORIGINALS OF PAST,SUCH AS THRACIANS,ILLYRIANS,ANCIENT GREEK THAT NOT EVEN GREEKS USE TODAY,,3 THE LATIN TO NORTH AN GREEK TO SOUTH ALSO PROVES SO,SO, ALBANIAN LANGUAGE HAS INFLUENCED FROM THE NATIVES AN THE GHEG ALBANIAN LANGUAGE BEFORE THE ARRIVAL OF THE SLAVIC MIGRATION DONT EVEN ARGUE THAT WITH ME BECAUSE ITS TRUE,ASSIMULATION OF ALBANIANS DIDNT INTIRE HAPPEN IF IT DID THEN WE ALL WOULD BE SPEAKING SLAVNIC A ATTEMPT DID HAPPEN BUT FAILED,EVEN IN MILOSOVIC TRYED,IN KOSOVA THEIR WASNT ALOWED ALBANIAN SCHOOLS.NO JOBS FOR ALBANIANS,BUT IT WAS OK TO LEANR IN SERBIAN SCHOOL BUT TO LEARN SERBIAN,BUT THAT ALSO FAILED,THE ARBRESHE AN ARBANTIES HAVE SPOKEN THEIR LANGUAGE AMONGST GREEKS,TURKS,BULGARIANS,SERBIANS,AN STILL SPEAK ALBANIAN AFTER 650 YEARS WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THE MOST TRADITIONAL ALBANIANS OF NORTH WONT DO SAMETHING?

I'm not saying that. I only know what I heard from Montenegrins about Hoti and Krasnichi. They are blood brother tribes of their Montenegrin clan.
It seems very probable that Montenegrin Hoti and Krasnichi have mingled too much with real ethnic Albanians and became like >70% Albanian, while Piperi, Vasojevici and Ozrinici have only like 20% Albanian .
LISTEN I WILL SAY AGAIN,HOTI TRIBE THE WHOLE LOT OF THAT TRIBE SPEAK ALBANIAN,So why would they speak albanian the whole tribe its not possiable to assimulate that tribe with not much time to do so,vaschechi from what i know an the intire tribes of hoti an kelmendi know that vaschechi were albanian catholics,i know their were some montenegro tribes of slav,but heir were also albanian tribes of montenegro,look at population of ulqin,,they are from hoti an they all speak albanian..
Linguistics is this time not on your side :/
Ethnically, I don't know, but I believe Montenegrin's writings for now. If you don't like my statement, don't tell me that, iIt won't change what's written in the books. Do you understand that part?
If you want the books to be rewritten, you have to present serious facts that would predate Montenegrin writings.wtf linguistics is that so,,,

• Grudë
• Hoti,
• Kojë
• Trieshi
• so i guess their slavnic tribes their tribes of albanians of montenegro region,,Other tribes of Northern Albania include:^[16]
  • Berisha
  • Krasniqi
  • Nikaj-Mërtur
  • Shllaku
  • Gjoni (Gjonaj)^{[citation needed]}
  • The Dukagjin highlands (Malësia e Vogël, or Shala-Shoshi) includes the six bajraks of ^[17]
    • Shala
    • Shoshi
    • Kiri
    • Gjaj
    • Plani
    • Toplan,an these must be slavnic,,lol

TUZI IN MONTENEGRO.Although there is no historical record for the name "Tuzi", locals say it owes it name to its founder and first settler, Llesh Tuzi. He was said to have lived in the 15th century and migrated from the Albanian Highlands (Malesia e Madhe).According to some documents of an local catholic church, the name Tuzi is being used in the year 1222
History

The town of Tuzi is situated in the region of Malesija. It is the largest and most important town in the region. The Albanians of Tuzi today are originally from the surrounding Malesija region tribes of Hoti, Gruda, Triesh and Koja. The Malësor Albanians consider Tuzi as an important cultural and traditional center for their people. Although Tuzi is historically an Albanian majority town, it is also home to smaller ethnic groups, such as the Bosniaks (Muslims) and Montenegrins.
In 1911, for the first time since the era of George Kastrioti, the Albanian flag was risen on top of the Dečić Mountain in Tuzi during the Battle of Dečić. In the battle, Ded Gjo Luli led the Albanians to victory against the Ottomans which marked the turning point in Albanian self-determination.

 

[Luan]

Only thing you do is trying to prove that Krasnichi are not Slavic. OK, lets say I agree with you.
But even that doesn't say anything about them being Albanian. You've only come to the point where it's equally not possible that Krasnichi are Slavic or Albanian.ha lol we are talking about 300 thousand albanians from krasnichi or krasniqi, it just isnt possiable to assimulate that many albanians,then you have another million albanians whom are from northern tribes,infact ALL GHEG ALBANIANS ARE FROM TRIBES OF NORTH ALBANIA,DO YOU NOT SEE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING?YOU ARE BASICLY SAYING GHEG ALBANIANS ARE ALL SLAVNICS,HEAR IS WHY ITS NOT POSSIABLE,1 THE GHEG ALBANIAN LANGUAGE OUTDATES THE SERBIAN LANGUAGE AN ANY SLAV LANGUAGE FROM BALKANS DONT EVEN ARGUE THAT WITH ME,,2 THE PRE INDOEUROPEAN NASAL VOWELS ARE DIFFRENT,THE ALBANIAN LANGUAGE IS MORE INFLUENCED MORE THAN ANY LANGUAGE OF BALKANS OF THE ABORIGINALS OF PAST,SUCH AS THRACIANS,ILLYRIANS,ANCIENT GREEK THAT NOT EVEN GREEKS USE TODAY,,3 THE LATIN TO NORTH AN GREEK TO SOUTH ALSO PROVES SO,SO, ALBANIAN LANGUAGE HAS INFLUENCED FROM THE NATIVES AN THE GHEG ALBANIAN LANGUAGE BEFORE THE ARRIVAL OF THE SLAVIC MIGRATION DONT EVEN ARGUE THAT WITH ME BECAUSE ITS TRUE,ASSIMULATION OF ALBANIANS DIDNT INTIRE HAPPEN IF IT DID THEN WE ALL WOULD BE SPEAKING SLAVNIC A ATTEMPT DID HAPPEN BUT FAILED,EVEN IN MILOSOVIC TRYED,IN KOSOVA THEIR WASNT ALOWED ALBANIAN SCHOOLS.NO JOBS FOR ALBANIANS,BUT IT WAS OK TO LEANR IN SERBIAN SCHOOL BUT TO LEARN SERBIAN,BUT THAT ALSO FAILED,THE ARBRESHE AN ARBANTIES HAVE SPOKEN THEIR LANGUAGE AMONGST GREEKS,TURKS,BULGARIANS,SERBIANS,AN STILL SPEAK ALBANIAN AFTER 650 YEARS WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THE MOST TRADITIONAL ALBANIANS OF NORTH WONT DO SAMETHING?

I'm not saying that. I only know what I heard from Montenegrins about Hoti and Krasnichi. They are blood brother tribes of their Montenegrin clan.
It seems very probable that Montenegrin Hoti and Krasnichi have mingled too much with real ethnic Albanians and became like >70% Albanian, while Piperi, Vasojevici and Ozrinici have only like 20% Albanian .
LISTEN I WILL SAY AGAIN,HOTI TRIBE THE WHOLE LOT OF THAT TRIBE SPEAK ALBANIAN,So why would they speak albanian the whole tribe its not possiable to assimulate that tribe with not much time to do so,vaschechi from what i know an the intire tribes of hoti an kelmendi know that vaschechi were albanian catholics,i know their were some montenegro tribes of slav,but heir were also albanian tribes of montenegro,look at population of ulqin,,they are from hoti an they all speak albanian..
Linguistics is this time not on your side :/
Ethnically, I don't know, but I believe Montenegrin's writings for now. If you don't like my statement, don't tell me that, iIt won't change what's written in the books. Do you understand that part?
If you want the books to be rewritten, you have to present serious facts that would predate Montenegrin writings.wtf linguistics is that so,,,

• Grudë
• Hoti,
• Kojë
• Trieshi
• so i guess their slavnic tribes their tribes of albanians of montenegro region,,Other tribes of Northern Albania include:^[16]
  • Berisha
  • Krasniqi
  • Nikaj-Mërtur
  • Shllaku
  • Gjoni (Gjonaj)^{[citation needed]}
  • The Dukagjin highlands (Malësia e Vogël, or Shala-Shoshi) includes the six bajraks of ^[17]
    • Shala
    • Shoshi
    • Kiri
    • Gjaj
    • Plani
    • Toplan,an these must be slavnic,,lol

TUZI IN MONTENEGRO.Although there is no historical record for the name "Tuzi", locals say it owes it name to its founder and first settler, Llesh Tuzi. He was said to have lived in the 15th century and migrated from the Albanian Highlands (Malesia e Madhe).According to some documents of an local catholic church, the name Tuzi is being used in the year 1222
History

The town of Tuzi is situated in the region of Malesija. It is the largest and most important town in the region. The Albanians of Tuzi today are originally from the surrounding Malesija region tribes of Hoti, Gruda, Triesh and Koja. The Malësor Albanians consider Tuzi as an important cultural and traditional center for their people. Although Tuzi is historically an Albanian majority town, it is also home to smaller ethnic groups, such as the Bosniaks (Muslims) and Montenegrins.
In 1911, for the first time since the era of George Kastrioti, the Albanian flag was risen on top of the Dečić Mountain in Tuzi during the Battle of Dečić. In the battle, Ded Gjo Luli led the Albanians to victory against the Ottomans which marked the turning point in Albanian self-determination.

He want all Albanians to be serbian, so they can have Kosova back. LOl

 

[ukaj]

lol

He want all Albanians to be serbian, so they can have Kosova back. LOl

He just doesnt get it luan,This has been explained to me by frasher demaj from kosova,It is 19th ctry propaganda,,