Illyrian-Albanian Continuity

[Sile]

Regarding a possible (North) Danubian origin of the Albanians:

{The last field of comparison is the anthropology. The field is “frozen” in Romanian archaeology (at least for early middle age), but some studies in neighbouring countries could provide interesting suggestions. The anthropological research on Avar period cemeteries confirms, on the one hand, the mosaic-like ethnical structure of nomad empires, very close to what the literary sources tell us, and brings, on the other hand, the missing elements, like the existence of a perhaps Romanized population (not Asiatic, not German and not Slavic), either as a “foederati inheritance”, or due to Roman captives from later times. The second interesting conclusion is the anthropological non-identity of male and female series, that suggesting that military agreements were sealed by matrimonial exchanges, that is crucial for the understanding of acculturation processes. Similar realities emerge from the anthropological studies made for northeastern Bulgaria (BOEV 1987). The funerary rituals for the same area confirms the cultural diversity in proto-Bulgarian society. The ethnic identity of the persons buried by the incineration rite with the cremated remains left directly in the pit remains an unresolved issue. Bulgarian scholars couldn’t make their minds up between Bulgarians and Slavs. In my opinion these graves (almost half of the cremations) can’t be assigned to either Bulgarians or Slavs, but to a Romanized population (some of them originated north of the Danube; consider here the Christian tombs in the seventh and eighth centuries!) or to a Baltic population eventually brought by Slavs in migration. The Baltic presence is difficult to illustrate, so I think the most part of these archaeological monuments are to be assigned to local elements, more or less Romanized, in a submitted position (they are associated in both Bulgarian and Slavs necropolis). This is the single hypothesis that explains the quick metamorphosis of the Roman pottery into the Slavic shapes. It is difficult to decide whether this population came from the north or south of the Danube. I guess that most of them should be of an origin north of the Danube, representing the Slav warriors’ families (“gained” near the Danube, not brought from faraway), or other submitted elements. The direct analogies between Capidava pottery (most of it not Slavic) and the Garvan-Popina shapes make me think also that some Roman people survived (but only to serve the new power!). It is possible to suppose that after the collapse of Roman authority the former Roman citizens abandoned the Christian beliefs, or at least the burial practices recommended by the Church.}

http://berberian11.tripod.com/miyatev_pottery.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shqiptar

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Bulgarian_Empire


It would explain why the Shqiptars considered themselves as "Slavs", though their culture and language are obviously related to those of the Romanians.


Anyway, the Romanized groups,whether of North-Danubian,South-Danubian, or of both origins,are clearly connected,both archaeologically and historically,to the Bulgars.
"Gesta Hungarorum" also recorded Bulgar and Vlach chieftains in Transylvania,before the Magyar's arrival.

Are you reading the latest on the origins of albanians , which is stated is on the border of modern slovakia and moldovia?

 

[King Bardhyl]

Are you reading the latest on the origins of albanians , which is stated is on the border of modern slovakia and moldovia?

No, the Albanian are originary from Albania Caucas and south slavs are the descendants of the illyrians .
Oh my god. La madre degli idioti e sempre in cinta.

 

[King Bardhyl]

Regarding a possible (North) Danubian origin of the Albanians:

{The last field of comparison is the anthropology. The field is “frozen” in Romanian archaeology (at least for early middle age), but some studies in neighbouring countries could provide interesting suggestions. The anthropological research on Avar period cemeteries confirms, on the one hand, the mosaic-like ethnical structure of nomad empires, very close to what the literary sources tell us, and brings, on the other hand, the missing elements, like the existence of a perhaps Romanized population (not Asiatic, not German and not Slavic), either as a “foederati inheritance”, or due to Roman captives from later times. The second interesting conclusion is the anthropological non-identity of male and female series, that suggesting that military agreements were sealed by matrimonial exchanges, that is crucial for the understanding of acculturation processes. Similar realities emerge from the anthropological studies made for northeastern Bulgaria (BOEV 1987). The funerary rituals for the same area confirms the cultural diversity in proto-Bulgarian society. The ethnic identity of the persons buried by the incineration rite with the cremated remains left directly in the pit remains an unresolved issue. Bulgarian scholars couldn’t make their minds up between Bulgarians and Slavs. In my opinion these graves (almost half of the cremations) can’t be assigned to either Bulgarians or Slavs, but to a Romanized population (some of them originated north of the Danube; consider here the Christian tombs in the seventh and eighth centuries!) or to a Baltic population eventually brought by Slavs in migration. The Baltic presence is difficult to illustrate, so I think the most part of these archaeological monuments are to be assigned to local elements, more or less Romanized, in a submitted position (they are associated in both Bulgarian and Slavs necropolis). This is the single hypothesis that explains the quick metamorphosis of the Roman pottery into the Slavic shapes. It is difficult to decide whether this population came from the north or south of the Danube. I guess that most of them should be of an origin north of the Danube, representing the Slav warriors’ families (“gained” near the Danube, not brought from faraway), or other submitted elements. The direct analogies between Capidava pottery (most of it not Slavic) and the Garvan-Popina shapes make me think also that some Roman people survived (but only to serve the new power!). It is possible to suppose that after the collapse of Roman authority the former Roman citizens abandoned the Christian beliefs, or at least the burial practices recommended by the Church.}

http://berberian11.tripod.com/miyatev_pottery.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shqiptar

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Bulgarian_Empire


It would explain why the Shqiptars considered themselves as "Slavs", though their culture and language are obviously related to those of the Romanians.


Anyway, the Romanized groups,whether of North-Danubian,South-Danubian, or of both origins,are clearly connected,both archaeologically and historically,to the Bulgars.
"Gesta Hungarorum" also recorded Bulgar and Vlach chieftains in Transylvania,before the Magyar's arrival.

Another BS. We do not consider ourselvs "Slavs". And we are in this land before your ancestors came down from the trees.

 

[Ike]

OK then, Bulgarians 9th century. Where are Albanians there? Do you have one single mention of Albanians in Bulgarian books.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania_under_the_Bulgarian_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kutmichevitsa
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presian_I_of_Bulgaria

 

[King Bardhyl]

I can not read bulgarian book, i don`t speak bulgarian can you translate something pls?

 

[Yetos]

.................................................

Psychosis

 

[Ike]

I can not read bulgarian book, i don`t speak bulgarian can you translate something pls?

There is nothing to translate, cause there is no text mentioning Albanians. There is one text of unknown origin dated recently to 10th century (not precisely, but from it's context) mentioning Albanian language, and that is all from those couple of centuries. To be honest, Bulgarians were not there for centuries, but they don't mention Albanians in 9th century when they controlled the area.

Bulgarian movement could give a push to Romanian hypothesis, and put movement of Albanians in 9th century.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Romanian_origins_map.PNG

 

[Sile]

No, the Albanian are originary from Albania Caucas and south slavs are the descendants of the illyrians .
Oh my god. La madre degli idioti e sempre in cinta.

Your the very first that claim albanians origin is from Albania caucasus .............it puts albanians in a Armenian sub-branch

 

[LeBrok]

KB is banned for 10 days to cool down.

 

[albanopolis]

There is nothing to translate, cause there is no text mentioning Albanians. There is one text of unknown origin dated recently to 10th century (not precisely, but from it's context) mentioning Albanian language, and that is all from those couple of centuries. To be honest, Bulgarians were not there for centuries, but they don't mention Albanians in 9th century when they controlled the area.

Bulgarian movement could give a push to Romanian hypothesis, and put movement of Albanians in 9th century.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Romanian_origins_map.PNG

There is not enough information from 7 to 10th century. It corresponds with Slav invasion of the Ballkans. They brought the dark ages with them, thats why there are no written statements about Albanian presence.
Had not been for the Turks who crushed the Slavs would still have been dark ages.

 

[Ike]

There is not enough information from 7 to 10th century. It corresponds with Slav invasion of the Ballkans. They brought the dark ages with them, thats why there are no written statements about Albanian presence.
Had not been for the Turks who crushed the Slavs would still have been dark ages.

The problem is that the majority of historians, who believe that Albanians were here before Slavs, agree that Albanians would be fully Romanized just as the rest of Balkans, in just couple of hundred of years. If you really believe that Albanians were here before 6th century, you are to thank Slavs for you existence as an Albanian

 

[LeBrok]

There is not enough information from 7 to 10th century. It corresponds with Slav invasion of the Ballkans. They brought the dark ages with them, thats why there are no written statements about Albanian presence.
Had not been for the Turks who crushed the Slavs would still have been dark ages.

Really? So how do you explain Dark Ages in Northern and Western Europe too? Places where Slavs didn't go.
Actually East Roman Empire was surviving Dark Ages, but we can't find much of their records and books. Either they didn't write much about Balkans, about their neighbors, or Turks destroyed them?

 

[albanopolis]

The problem is that the majority of historians, who believe that Albanians were here before Slavs, agree that Albanians would be fully Romanized just as the rest of Balkans, in just couple of hundred of years. If you really believe that Albanians were here before 6th century, you are to thank Slavs for you existence as an Albanian

Major coastal areas were fully Romanized. That is why Alb language lacks its own words for sea creatures with the exception of the word sea. Dubrovnik spoke Latin until the beginning of this century.
Mountain areas were half romanized. That's why Alb language today has 50% Latin vocabulary. After Roman retreat mountaineers who were majority overwhelmed the city's and that half Albanian language we have today survived. But they did not have words for sea creatures.
Albanians did not write their language until 15th century so there are not records at least up to year 1000 with word Albanian and we do not call our self Albanian. Our word was Arberi.
Slavs did not stop Albanian romanization. There were no Romans left. Albanian population, the Greek one as well , were at the brink of extinction from a recorded 5th century plague. That's why Slavs got almost no resistance on their way to Balkans. There were few people left, The numbers were not recovered from the plague.
Slavs worsened Albanian population conditions by overwhelming them and absorbing the whole population where they settled.
But world the way its going in the medium future small countries will lose their identity anyway.

 

[Ike]

Major coastal areas were fully Romanized. That is why Alb language lacks its own words for sea creatures with the exception of the word sea. Dubrovnik spoke Latin until the beginning of this century.
Mountain areas were half romanized. That's why Alb language today has 50% Latin vocabulary. After Roman retreat mountaineers who were majority overwhelmed the city's and that half Albanian language we have today survived. But they did not have words for sea creatures.
Albanians did not write their language until 15th century so there are not records at least up to year 1000 with word Albanian and we do not call our self Albanian. Our word was Arberi.
Slavs did not stop Albanian romanization. There were no Romans left. Albanian population, the Greek one as well , were at the brink of extinction from a recorded 5th century plague. That's why Slavs got almost no resistance on their way to Balkans. There were few people left, The numbers were not recovered from the plague.
Slavs worsened Albanian population conditions by overwhelming them and absorbing the whole population where they settled.
But world the way its going in the medium future small countries will lose their identity anyway.

If that was true, then that small population of Balkan tribes which was already half Romanized, would have most certainly be Slavicized in the next 5 centuries by the numerous Slavs.

If we assume ratios of 10:1 or 20:1 for Slavic newcomers, and massive Slavicization of the area which is obvious in toponymy, assumed Albanians would end up in ration 100:1 at best. That is exactly what happened to Aromanians, but Albanians don't fit in this scenario. There is too much of them, and they probably were not here in the time of Slavicization of the area, because something which is "at the brink of extinction" and which is overwhelmed by the other, doesn't survive in such a large numbers.

Only argument in favor of Albanian continuity would be from Dr. Kaplan Resuli-Burovich, who claims that:

"When Albania is proclaimed and recognised as an independent nation (1912-1913) its population numbered 700,000 of which hardly 50% were Albanians, while the other half was made up of Vlachs (around 20%), “Slavs” (Macedonians, Serbs, Montenegrins, around 15%),Greeks (around5%) and others (Turks, Roms, Cherkesians, Italians, Jews and others, around 10%). With the passing of time, mostly by force, with denial of all national rights, including the right to speak in their own languages at home, or to carry their own national family names, they are to a certain extent assimilated. But, even besides the such forced albanisation, in Albania even today over 30% of the population speaks a non albanian language and retains its non albanian national identity, although they are registered as Albanians, as they are not permitted to declare differently. The non albanian origins of the population of Albania is also evident from their surnames Bello, Blushi, Bogdani, Buda, Budi, Dida, Dobraci, Dragovoja, Dragusha, Haveri(ch), Kapisuzi(ch), Mexi, Millani, Milloshi, Mojsiu, Muzaka, Najdeni, Peku, Prela, Ruka, Sillil, Shk*ra, Shundi, Ziu and many others. "


This would still be no evidence of continuity, but would contribute to the hypothesis that Albanians somehow survived the plague and Slavic assmimilation, and then managed to Albanize 1000% of surrounding population in the last millenium, while not having any books, writing system, distinctive culture, cities, money, etc. which I find impossible.

 

[Ike]

What was that? LoL, forum ate my post.

edit: No it's back again today.

 

[Perandor]

Why are we even continuing with this discussion? I have seen these same arguments being thrown around a thousand times and after pages and pages of debate everyone simply returned to their initial position. Lets just settle on the fact that we are too fanatical and too biased to even see from the other's perspective let alone agree with it whether its true or false. Let the next generation take care of this mess.

 

[Yetos]

Why are we even continuing with this discussion? I have seen these same arguments being thrown around a thousand times and after pages and pages of debate everyone simply returned to their initial position. Lets just settle on the fact that we are too fanatical and too biased to even see from the other's perspective let alone agree with it whether its true or false. Let the next generation take care of this mess.

because some people, earn from that, or payed to do such, or want disinfrom us so to make political earn by destabilizing, some instead of make search just gather whatever they find with out check and 'write books' juast to sell,
in my country there is a guy who 'manage' to connect alliens, south America Indians, giants, elfs, Jesus Christ, etc and sells books, he lives by that, he wrote more than 43 books full of crap which he considers scientific proves.
they even provide him in some decadence TV channels, yet he earns from crup,
I guess in your country also exist some like the one I mention,
yet such people can create dangerous and foundamental fans.

 

[Diurpaneus]

Are you reading the latest on the origins of albanians , which is stated is on the border of modern slovakia and moldovia?

You think of Carpi,right?
They seem to preserve their identity,at least in some places,even in the"Slavic" times.
Getae-Dacian culture is also present in the Lvov/Upper Dniester region.

http://esteo.ro/TTW/Vol_1/Summ/Summ3_sec2.htm

Continuing my previous post:

Old Romanian "schiau"(read "shkiau"),plural"schei",derived from"Sclavene", means "Slav".

http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Șchei

The Sarata-Monteoru necropolis and its large-scale pit cremation rite:

http://esteo.ro/TTW/Vol_1/Summ/Summ4_sec3.htm


The Sclavene were just another confrederation,the proto-slavs were the leading force,or, at least,they became THE LEADING FORCE.
The degree of absortion into the Slavic ethnicity of different groups from the Sclavene confederation is questionable(see the archaeological facts).
In the case of Goths,Huns,Avars,seems to have been very low;thus,the elites managed to preserve their social status.








The Sarmatians...

They didn't have encrusted on their DNA the Slavic ethnicity.
The Sarmatians were present especially in the Wallachian plain and Siret-Prut interfluvial,from the beginning of 2nd century AD.
They were also recorded in the mountains("Mons Serrorum" is ,probably,Siriu Mountains,in the Buzau county),encountered by the Goths,who moved west.
You can differentiate their culture from the Penkovka's "Sarmatian" items;also,it contains Getae-Dacian/ Carpi and Roman traits.
True,later on,Penkovka started to be more and more present especially in the eastern half of Ipotesti-Candesti.

The north-danubians,whether of Daco-Roman of the former Dacia Traiana,Getae-Dacian/Carpi,Sarmatian,Goth,Hun,Avar origin,wanted Eastern Roman Empire's big bucks.
So, stealing and killing might have been the easiest way,but what happens when you're out of resources and other little devils,perhaps your former serfs,surrounds you?
You would be playing the hipocryte card:"We didn't want to do any harm!".So you started to be a friend of the Empire,selling goods to them ,selling yourself,as a mercenary,and this might enlarge your horizon:
"If I only knew Latin!I wouldn't be much smarter,but surely richer!"

 

[Sile]

You think of Carpi,right?
They seem to preserve their identity,at least in some places,even in the"Slavic" times.
Getae-Dacian culture is also present in the Lvov/Upper Dniester region.

http://esteo.ro/TTW/Vol_1/Summ/Summ3_sec2.htm

Continuing my previous post:

Old Romanian "schiau"(read "shkiau"),plural"schei",derived from"Sclavene", means "Slav".

http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Șchei

The Sarata-Monteoru necropolis and its large-scale pit cremation rite:

http://esteo.ro/TTW/Vol_1/Summ/Summ4_sec3.htm


The Sclavene were just another confrederation,the proto-slavs were the leading force,or, at least,they became THE LEADING FORCE.
The degree of absortion into the Slavic ethnicity of different groups from the Sclavene confederation is questionable(see the archaeological facts).
In the case of Goths,Huns,Avars,seems to have been very low;thus,the elites managed to preserve their social status.








The Sarmatians...

They didn't have encrusted on their DNA the Slavic ethnicity.
The Sarmatians were present especially in the Wallachian plain and Siret-Prut interfluvial,from the beginning of 2nd century AD.
They were also recorded in the mountains("Mons Serrorum" is ,probably,Siriu Mountains,in the Buzau county),encountered by the Goths,who moved west.
You can differentiate their culture from the Penkovka's "Sarmatian" items;also,it contains Getae-Dacian/ Carpi and Roman traits.
True,later on,Penkovka started to be more and more present especially in the eastern half of Ipotesti-Candesti.

The north-danubians,whether of Daco-Roman of the former Dacia Traiana,Getae-Dacian/Carpi,Sarmatian,Goth,Hun,Avar origin,wanted Eastern Roman Empire's big bucks.
So, stealing and killing might have been the easiest way,but what happens when you're out of resources and other little devils,perhaps your former serfs,surrounds you?
You would be playing the hipocryte card:"We didn't want to do any harm!".So you started to be a friend of the Empire,selling goods to them ,selling yourself,as a mercenary,and this might enlarge your horizon:
"If I only knew Latin!I wouldn't be much smarter,but surely richer!"

this is where it comes from

http://books.google.com.au/books?id...CFEQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=albanian carpi&f=false

 

[DejaVu]

ALBANIANS (SHQIPTARS) and their language are an artificial creation.




Settlement of Albanians in Macedonia


Historical evidence shows that the first Albanians in Macedonia began to migrate even more intense after the mid-18th century.

According to the Ottoman census of year 1430-1431, in Macedonia there was Albanians. Already by the mid-15th century, with the conversion of Albanians in a minority they started coming in Macedonia as Turkish soldiers and mercenaries, but in a very minor number. The Ottoman census of year 1452-1453 are only 32 Albanian families recorded on the territory of Macedonia, 31 family vilayet Kalkandelen (nest) and 1 Catholic family in Skopje. These Albanians have mostly been Islamized and Ottoman authorities blaming as ARNAUTS or Arbanasi, as could differ from indigenous. The census in notepads, Ottomans personal names Albanians added the "Arbanasi" or "Arnaut" to distinguish them from the natives, that there were no adjectives for nationality.

Ottoman census of year 1467-1468, the notes only 84 Albanian households on the territory of Macedonia and recesses in the following:

Census year 1467-1468

Vilayet Kalkandelen (nest) 20 households
Vilayet USKUP (Skopje) 2 households
Vilayet Pirlepe (Prilep) 10 households
Vilayet Kjiprjuli (Veles) 3 households
Nahiya Krchovo (Kicevo) 7 households
Nahiya Mariovo 1 household
Nahiya Manastir (Bitola) 41 household

Source: TDIMN. ODM, t. III, p. 35-143 (Vilayet Kalkandelen), p. 150; TDIMN. ODM, t. I, p. 197-199; TDIMN. ODM, t. II, s.139-271 (nahiя Monastery), p. 271-485

The first six Albanian villages in Macedonia

Albanians came to the borders of Macedonia in year 1572. Frenchman Philippe Kanaje described the capture of Kačanik by some as personally wrote "Albanian groups of killers and thieves" in year 1572.

(Frankish Travel to the Balkans, s.140).

In year 1595 for the first time in recorded history a den of Albanian gang robbed a few Poloski villages and many villagers wounded and killed.

(J. Trifunoski, nest, p. 38).

Under Ottoman document from year 1597, about 10,000 Albanian-robbers of northern Albania, robbed and burned 27 villages in western Macedonia, and in 6 of these villages, in Debar area, settled Albanians for the first time in Macedonia.

(Sopova, MD. Quoted. Sъch., P. 83).

So, the first settlement of Albanians in a Macedonian village occured 3 years before the 17th century and it was in the Debar.

Albanian settlement in Skopje area

The Ottoman document from year 1595 first noted the presence of "predatory arnaut groups" in the Skopje area, but no Albanian settlement.

(Sopova, MD. Quoted. Sъch., P. 78-79)

Albanians began to gradually conquer the high mountain villages of Macedonia Skopje Montenegro, even at the end of the 17th century.

(Materials, 536. / "ARNAUTS" Vasil Kъnchov, "Makedoniя. Etnografiя and statistics" (v. 11 cards), published Bъlgarskoto Literary druzhestva c Sofia, 1900 Chastna pъrva. Peoples c Makedoniя. Arnauts., P. 83-100 ).

Albanians first occupied the highest villages in Skopje Macedonian Montenegro area and then gradually got down to the lower villages. The village of Brest was until the 19th century pure Macedonian village and in the village Luboten Albanians entered in the late 18th century.

(Vasil Kъnchov, "Makedoniя. Etnografiя and statistics" Chastna pъrva.Narodi c Makedoniя. Arnauts., P. 83-100).

German traveler Han in the second half of the 19th century visited the Albanian villages in Skopje Montenegro area. The Albanians themselves informed that they moved in Skopje northern mountains after Austrian wars, and that's the end of the 17th century.

(Hahn, Reise von Belgrad nach Salonik, Wien, 1868th p. 70).

By the 20th century, the flower Black Peak settled Albanians in 21 Macedonian villages. They came from Kosovo during the 18th and 19th centuries, and residents of Aldinci know that their ancestors came to Aldinci of Gnjilane.

(Material, p. 523rd / Vasil Kъnchov, "Makedoniя. Etnografiя and statistics" Chastna pъrva. Peoples c Makedoniя. Arnauts., P. 83-100).

The first field units Albanians descended even into the 19th century, during the management of Hamza Pasha, an Albanian, who gradually settled Albanians of northern Albania.

(J. Trifunoski, Skopje Polje, 358).

Albanian settlement of Nest

Early Albanian settlement that occupied the Nest, started from the middle of the 18th century. However, at that time they were a very small minority group in the Nest, Until the first half of the 19th century, when the Nest was Albanian ruled by Abdurrahman Pasha, was violently and mass inhabited by Albanians from northern Albania.

(J. Trifunoski, nest, s. 71-74)

Much of the indigenous Macedonian population in Nest, was violently albanized, whole generation were albanized, and many women and girls under the pressure of Tetovo Albanian pashas and their oppression.

(J. Trifunoski, nest, p. 38-39, 50-51)

The same happened with Kichevija, where most of them are actually of Albanian Macedonian origin. Therefore, we can say that the Albanians in Macedonia are Macedonian brothers.

Albanians from s. Tearce were inhabited by the Tetovo pashas, ​​the Mat, Lower Debar and Prizren, the Albanians.from s Dobroshte came from Debar and Luma. In s.Dlabochica, s.Strazha and s.Kultino Albanians come from Dukachin Luma. The last village, Abdurrahman Pasha in the early 19th century expelled Macedonians and Albanians settled (material (Sofia), 437, 439, 446-447).

In Zhedenskata area until the early 19th century Macedonians lived exclusively, but later the Albanians to migrate there from Rech and Dolni Debar.

The Albanian violence, made Macedonians to mass flee Nest and left empty villages. Vasil K´nchov in the last decade of the 19th century, visited Macedonia and describes the village of Gorno year 1860 and counted 30 Macedonian families. In 1890 villages Palatica, Korito,Forino and Chajle, was left bare and empty.

(V. "News" years. II no. 12, 13th / Vasil Kъnchov, "Makedoniя. Etnografiя and statistics" Chastna pъrva.Narodi c Makedoniя. Arnauts., P. 83-100).

Macedonian ethnographer Trifunoski mentions that Katranje villages and Erebino shared the same fate and was left empty.

(J. Trifunoski, nest, 39-40).