Kosovo

[FBS]

:shocked:

@FBS

1. No it can't. Go look international law.

2. Albanians on Kosovo were repressive, chauvinist and lawless in their demands.

3. a) It is not state yet. Don't rush in there.

b) That's stupid reasoning. Everyone's shouting about being repressed in Yugoslavia by communists, but when it comes to the borders, everyone's just fine with them Pure hypocrisy.

c) If it was like that, than there wouldn't be 10x more Albanians on Kosovo than what it used to be 100 years ago. And you STILL didn't answer my question about that. Why avoiding....

d)Yes. Opening of that Pandora's box is the only solution to prevent future wars. It's the box US has left.

e) You're the one claiming that no.1. is OK. You're supporting insane US imperialism against Serbs for Albanian gain. Yet you may be aware that it can come around. They will leave you just as soon as you stop serving their interests. A bit of modesty and decency wouldn't hurt you

Well life's not fair. Who plays the cards cleverly wins. Don't you just hate it?

 

[FBS]

Serbs as other nations are not angels, of course. But for Albanians Serbian communists were like Angels. You can see what terrible things communists of Enver Hoxha worked Serbs and Montenegrins in Albania. Did the communists in Serbia revenge? No. Serbian communists were humanists. They honestly believed in the achievement of a socialist society. Serbia has allocated huge funds for development of AP Kosovo, although some other regions of Serbia were underdeveloped. Serbian communist honestly thought that every human being should be given a chance. Their key slogan was “brotherhood and unity”.

Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rankovićism

Ranković sought to secure the position of Serbsand Montenegrins in Kosovo, they dominated the government, security forces, and industrial employment in Kosovo.^[9] Ranković as head of Yugoslavia's UDBA security forces supported a hardline approach towards Albanians in Kosovo who were commonly accused of pursuing seditious activities, including separatism, and were persecuted due to these allegations of sedition.^[9] Islam in Kosovo at this time was repressed and both Albanians and Muslim South Slavs were encouraged to declare themselves to be Turks and emigrate to Turkey.^[9]


ALEKSANDAR RANKOVIC--POLITICAL PROFILE OF A YUGOSLAV "STALINIST"
by Slobodan Stankovic http://osaarchivum.org/files/holdings/300/8/3/text/86-3-147.shtml
Rankovic's Stalinist behavior was best illustrated in his dealings with the Albanians in Kosovo, whom he treated in the cruel manner that Stalin did some of the national minorities in the SovietUnion; and his thinking and methods were certainly Stalinist.

<sup>Systematic Serbism http://www.eurotopics.net/en/home/p.../kosovo-2008-03/kosovo_ueberblick_geschichte/

The years following the abolition of the province autonomy were characterised by systematic "Serbism”. All schools, for example, were required to teach the Serbian curriculum; Kosovo Albanian doctors and nursing staff in public hospitals were fired. Thousands of Kosovo Albanians in other fields suffered the same fate unless they were prepared to declare their loyalty to Serbia in writing. As a result all Serbian institutions were boycotted by the Kosovo Albanians, who began building a parallel underground school and health system (mostly in private homes). Daily police terror caused great insecurity and fear amongst the Kosovo Albanians.</sup>

 

[FBS]

What do you mean closed? Are you suggesting that one minority can take away the territory of another country just on the basis of enormous immigration or birth rate?

Those satanists & devils, how dare they use love/sex instead of guns, tanks, bombs and killing other people. Where is the world getting to?

 

[Ike]

And you would like to have sex in your neighbour's backyard, and let your children play in his pool.

 

[FBS]

And you would like to have sex in your neighbour's backyard, and let your children play in his pool.

You have a pool! wow, let's partey:cool-v:...

 

[Beast]

You can see. According last census performed in Yugoslavia, in Kosovo lived:

Serbs and Montenegrins 15.12%
Bosniacs and Gorans (then writted as Muslims) 3.7%
Roma 2.15%
Turks 0.79%
Croats 0.55%

After only several months 1999, Kosovo became almost ethnically pure. People have become refugees.
Today all minorities in Kosovo about you write are less than 7%. And it is reality.

If in Syria apply the same principle the same can happen. And, you agree, it is not good way.

Are you joking? even before 1999 kosovo was majority Albanian. like 90%.. so there is no way there were 15% Serbs... and you talking about refugees... there were more Albanian refugees during 1999 that escaped Kosovo more than any other group

 

[Beast]

@FBS

1. No it can't. Go look international law.

2. Albanians on Kosovo were repressive, chauvinist and lawless in their demands.

3. a) It is not state yet. Don't rush in there.

b) That's stupid reasoning. Everyone's shouting about being repressed in Yugoslavia by communists, but when it comes to the borders, everyone's just fine with them Pure hypocrisy.

c) If it was like that, than there wouldn't be 10x more Albanians on Kosovo than what it used to be 100 years ago. And you STILL didn't answer my question about that. Why avoiding....

d)Yes. Opening of that Pandora's box is the only solution to prevent future wars. It's the box US has left.

e) You're the one claiming that no.1. is OK. You're supporting insane US imperialism against Serbs for Albanian gain. Yet you may be aware that it can come around. They will leave you just as soon as you stop serving their interests. A bit of modesty and decency wouldn't hurt you

Serving the interest lol... Kosovo war started without caring about weather america helped or not. In Preshevo Albanians fought without any help in budj too. And Jashari family fought without help, the whole village of prekaz, where my uncles are from fought without help.. so what is this bull about ''nato help''.... NATO tried to stop both sides. yes some westerns voulunteered to help Albanians but Russians also help Serbs... Russian nazis helped Serbs, the same neo nazis that stood behind mass killings of children in Chechnya. all of Skenderaj fought without help... where was America when Jashari family members women and children were killed and bodies burned? Same time you had Serbs releasing propaganda videos of this attack pretending only ''some soldiers were killed'' when later footage and news revealed 52 family members were killed... this also what caused NATO to take action. I met a man in Mitrovica who was from donji prekaz with the surname Jashari, and he told me his story how Serbs put a bullet in his 5 year old sons head, he burried him with his own hands. And what about Serbs shooting with snipers at Albanian civilians from the other side of Mitrovica? what about them shooting at Albanian children that were swimming in the lake? these children tried to escape but some of them ended up drowning, a little boy maybe like 7-10 years old.... this is also what caused the burning of orthodox churches in Kosovo by Albanians.. no wonder they were pissed off.

And remember early 19th and 20th century when Serbs were backed up even by austro-hungary, congress of london, and even Ottomans who wanted to stop Albanians from getting independence. I can't mention how many sources I've seen mention Serbs assasinating ALbanian politicians.. you played a dirty game... for example mother theresas father assassinated by Serbs, and many others... and then you talk about things coming around? That is what happened in 1999 because in early 20th century Albanians stood alone and nobody helped Albanian. Serbs were given land by these people (AUSTRO-HUNGARY, BRITS, OTTOMANS) like Kosovo for free, south of Dardania was given to FYROM. ... north Albania (MALESIA) was given to montenegro, and even sandzak was shared just so serbs could have a border with montenegro. even though albanians lived in these land... and what did albanians get? a little land called today 'albania' created by the congress of london. Serbs also betrayed Albanians during WORLD WAR II when Shaban Polluzha helped the partisans against nazis but the Serbs kept harassing Albanians.

Serbs are not so much better either... just look what you did in Srbrenica And Kosovo. and tried to hide it.. and you are good at making propaganda videos.. actually number one in the balkans, I must say.

 

[Garrick]

Are you joking? even before 1999 kosovo was majority Albanian. like 90%.. so there is no way there were 15% Serbs... and you talking about refugees... there were more Albanian refugees during 1999 that escaped Kosovo more than any other group

You didn't read. Last census in Yugoslavia was 1981 and these data are accurate. After that census was 2011, 12 years after exile of Serbs, Montenegrins, etc. You saw, American Cato Institute estimates about 250,000 refugees (year 2000). After that the number of refugees grew. According Serbian data were about 300,000 refugees in Serbia and according Montenerin data 10,000 refugees in Montenegro. And today in the Kosovo there are over 93% Albanians. When was it in the history? Never.

If you can notice I don't like write about period nineties because there are two diametrically opposed stories. For state of Serbia there were illegal Albanian armed groups. For most of Albanians they were fighters to separate part of territory from Serbia. You can look in Sri Lanka. The same situation. For state of Sri Lanka Tamil fighters were illegal Tamil armed groups. For most of Tamils they were fighters to separate part of territory from Sri Lanka. For some greater powers Tamil fighters were like terrorists. Good for government of Sri Lanka. But the Albanian armed groups were supported. The same situation but different principles.

The real question here is why the Albanians went through armed rebellion? You can see in Serbia Albanians for decades had more rights and the better life than Albanians in Albania, more in the foreign than in homeland country! If the 90's there were any problems they might be resolved in the institutions. Imagine in the world every minority in a country goes into armed rebellion. The world would be chaos. Do you know how many minorities live in the world? Do you really think that all of them are ideally satisfied. Albanians to nineties lived better and had more rights in Serbia, but almost no minority in the world.

And these are all facts. Or you really think that in Albania in the time of Enver Hoxha Albanians had more rights than Albanians in Serbia. If you really thinks it, than for you the facts mean nothing.

Where was the mistake? Quick solution. Such a solution after produces many more problems for which should be much more time and resources to be solved. And this is not long term and sustainable. It is much better to spend more time, review the complex issue from the multiple angles and pay more attention to planning. I have already said, it is necessary to improve the method of solving of complex problems.

 

[FBS]

The real question here is why the Albanians went through armed rebellion? You can see in Serbia Albanians for decades had more rights and the better life than Albanians in Albania, more in the foreign than in homeland country! If the 90's there were any problems they might be resolved in the institutions. Imagine in the world every minority in a country goes into armed rebellion. The world would be chaos. Do you know how many minorities live in the world? Do you really think that all of them are ideally satisfied. Albanians to nineties lived better and had more rights in Serbia, but almost no minority in the world.

Yeah, there was too much goodness and we could not take it any more. How can someone turn against something as sublime as this (a refresher): Systematic Serbism http://www.eurotopics.net/en/home/pr...ck_geschichte/

The years following the abolition of the province autonomy were characterised by systematic "Serbism”. All schools, for example, were required to teach the Serbian curriculum; Kosovo Albanian doctors and nursing staff in public hospitals were fired. Thousands of Kosovo Albanians in other fields suffered the same fate unless they were prepared to declare their loyalty to Serbia in writing. As a result all Serbian institutions were boycotted by the Kosovo Albanians, who began building a parallel underground school and health system (mostly in private homes). Daily police terror caused great insecurity and fear amongst the Kosovo Albanians.

 

[Ike]

Serving the interest lol... Kosovo war started without caring about weather america helped or not. In Preshevo Albanians fought without any help in budj too. And Jashari family fought without help, the whole village of prekaz, where my uncles are from fought without help.. so what is this bull about ''nato help''....

The preparations for war in Yugoslavia started right after Tito's death. First demonstrations about independence happened in 1981. At the same time Slovenians and Croatians were preparing for what they did in the nineties. It's no secret.

NATO tried to stop both sides.

NATO bombed Serbia with DU. Tens of thousands of people are about to die. I don't know what's the situation on Kosovo, but since it has been bombed more than any other region it will suffer heavily. No one is spared - Serbs, Albanians, UN, peace-keepers. I'd suggest you all to get the hell out of there for at least 500 years. You can read about it here or use google, there are plenty of materials on that subject.

where was America when Jashari family members women and children were killed and bodies burned? Same time you had Serbs releasing propaganda videos of this attack pretending only ''some soldiers were killed'' when later footage and news revealed 52 family members were killed...

Jashari was a terrorist. He killed people, and state policemen. He didn't want to surrender. He used his family members as a shield while fighting with military. It was clear action, nothing suspicious about it. There are films about it. It's sad his family members died, because he was psychopath.

I met a man in Mitrovica who was from donji prekaz with the surname Jashari, and he told me his story how Serbs put a bullet in his 5 year old sons head, he burried him with his own hands. And what about Serbs shooting with snipers at Albanian civilians from the other side of Mitrovica? what about them shooting at Albanian children that were swimming in the lake? these children tried to escape but some of them ended up drowning, a little boy maybe like 7-10 years old.... this is also what caused the burning of orthodox churches in Kosovo by Albanians.. no wonder they were pissed off.

Lets not start with atrocities which Albanians committed in last 100 years, cause there is not enough space on server for that.

And remember early 19th and 20th century when Serbs were backed up even by austro-hungary, congress of london, and even Ottomans who wanted to stop Albanians from getting independence. I can't mention how many sources I've seen mention Serbs assasinating ALbanian politicians.. you played a dirty game... for example mother theresas father assassinated by Serbs, and many others... and then you talk about things coming around? That is what happened in 1999 because in early 20th century Albanians stood alone and nobody helped Albanian. Serbs were given land by these people (AUSTRO-HUNGARY, BRITS, OTTOMANS) like Kosovo for free, south of Dardania was given to FYROM. ... north Albania (MALESIA) was given to montenegro, and even sandzak was shared just so serbs could have a border with montenegro. even though albanians lived in these land... and what did albanians get? a little land called today 'albania' created by the congress of london. Serbs also betrayed Albanians during WORLD WAR II when Shaban Polluzha helped the partisans against nazis but the Serbs kept harassing Albanians.

Serbs backed up by Austro-Hungary?! That is funny.
And why do you lie about WW2? We all know Albanians were on Hitler's side. They waited the first opportunity to seize the parts of Yugoslavia, and to molest other nationalities.

There's was a very small number of Albanian communists that worked against Hitler and nazists. Fro example Ramiz Sadiku was declared a National hero of Yugoslavia in 1945, but sadly Albanians demolished his monument. Why?

Serbs are not so much better either... just look what you did in Srbrenica And Kosovo. and tried to hide it.. and you are good at making propaganda videos.. actually number one in the balkans, I must say.

What we did, is written in census. While Serbs were holding Kosovo, Albanians in there multiplied three times. Those are the facts. And whenever Albanians get hold of the military power over Kosovo, the number of Serbs gets diminished. Interesting phenomena. Explain it?

You're diverting the subject, trying to involve Bosniaks in this. Why? What's your problem? You don't have enough facts to confront? Since I see Norwegian flag at your profile, here is an interesting Norwegian movie about Srebrenica. Come back after you've seen it, and we can continue the conversation about Srebrenica.

 

[Garrick]

And remember early 19th and 20th century when Serbs were backed up even by austro-hungary, congress of london, and even Ottomans who wanted to stop Albanians from getting independence. I can't mention how many sources I've seen mention Serbs assasinating ALbanian politicians.. you played a dirty game... for example mother theresas father assassinated by Serbs, and many others... and then you talk about things coming around? That is what happened in 1999 because in early 20th century Albanians stood alone and nobody helped Albanian. Serbs were given land by these people (AUSTRO-HUNGARY, BRITS, OTTOMANS) like Kosovo for free, south of Dardania was given to FYROM. ... north Albania (MALESIA) was given to montenegro, and even sandzak was shared just so serbs could have a border with montenegro. even though albanians lived in these land... and what did albanians get? a little land called today 'albania' created by the congress of london. Serbs also betrayed Albanians during WORLD WAR II when Shaban Polluzha helped the partisans against nazis but the Serbs kept harassing Albanians.

These are romantic stories, no facts. Time of romanticism is gone. And nationalism also.

Although the Communists of Serbia and Yugoslavia could be criticized for some things, for this they should be commended: brotherhood and unity. In Serbia and Yugoslavia did not exist the slightest form of discrimination on religion or nation.

But can you say why between 30,000 to 75,000 Albanians from Albania went to Serbia (in fifties), maybe in Albania ruled the hardships and repression.

History had written. Yugoslav and Serbian Communists 1948 said a BIG NO to Stalin. It was very hard situation for Serbia and Yugoslavia. The powerful armed forces of the USSR and its satellites towered over a small but proud Yugoslavia.

However Albanian Communists sided with Stalin. It was time when Yugoslavia and Serbia could be attack with three sided at the same time, with north, with east and with south west (from Albania). Courageous struggle of Yugoslavia was an example of how to defend freedom.

Stalin, USSR and its satellites including Albania, failed. Serbs, Montenegrins and other Yugoslav nations can be proud. Albania was ally large Soviet force.

Someone can notices the differences in mentality. Albanians have liked to be associated with major powers (anyway Stalin USSR, Germany during World Word 2, Ottoman Empire, etc.). Serbs and Montenegrins knew to say NO major powers: Stalin USSR, Germany during World War 2, Otoman Empire etc. This is no romanticism or nationalism, but culture and mentality. Serbs and Montenegrins not rely on greater powers, as Albanians. Serbs and Montenegrins trust in human spirit and creativity.

 

[Ike]

Yeah, there was too much goodness and we could not take it any more. How can someone turn against something as sublime as this (a refresher): Systematic Serbism http://www.eurotopics.net/en/home/pr...ck_geschichte/

The years following the abolition of the province autonomy were characterised by systematic "Serbism”. All schools, for example, were required to teach the Serbian curriculum; Kosovo Albanian doctors and nursing staff in public hospitals were fired. Thousands of Kosovo Albanians in other fields suffered the same fate unless they were prepared to declare their loyalty to Serbia in writing. As a result all Serbian institutions were boycotted by the Kosovo Albanians, who began building a parallel underground school and health system (mostly in private homes). Daily police terror caused great insecurity and fear amongst the Kosovo Albanians.

Don't turn this around. We both know that Albanians started that. What is so surprising that one country demands that official language and writing system be used in it's institutions? Why did your doctors pretended they know not Serbian language? Can Albanian doctor work in Germany and speak only Albanian? Can he molest German patients by telling them to learn Albanian, and them to come back?!

You purposely molested non-Albanian population on Kosovo, making the living conditions impossible, and in the end you've cause the war. It's your war, you were told to provoke it, backed up by the same countries that provided you Great Albania during WW2. Don't play innocent now.

 

[FBS]

Don't turn this around. We both know that Albanians started that. What is so surprising that one country demands that official language and writing system be used in it's institutions? Why did your doctors pretended they know not Serbian language? Can Albanian doctor work in Germany and speak only Albanian? Can he molest German patients by telling them to learn Albanian, and them to come back?!

You purposely molested non-Albanian population on Kosovo, making the living conditions impossible, and in the end you've cause the war. It's your war, you were told to provoke it, backed up by the same countries that provided you Great Albania during WW2. Don't play innocent now.

Great, so we won. Nasty little devils, we managed to trick you and the all the Yugoslavia, nc nc nc. Hm when I come to think of it, we played the game quite well don't you think? And we managed without having and army, money, media machinery, Milosevic, Arkan, ....wow, we are going to take over the world with this smart! Thank you for all these compliments Ike. I have started to admire myself and all other Kosovar-Albaninas, we are clever, man!:cool-v:

 

[FBS]

Someone can notices the differences in mentality. Albanians have liked to be associated with major powers (anyway Stalin USSR, Germany during World Word 2, Ottoman Empire, etc.). Serbs and Montenegrins knew to say NO major powers: Stalin USSR, Germany during World War 2, Otoman Empire etc. This is no romanticism or nationalism, but culture and mentality. Serbs and Montenegrins not rely on greater powers, as Albanians. Serbs and Montenegrins trust in human spirit and creativity.

What are you implying?

 

[Marko94]

Look this video:



In Albania, Serbs was banned all: Serbian names and surnames, Serbian language, religion, culture, the right to education in their own language, basic human rights, etc. From the thirties to nineties Serbs in Albania are almost albanized. You can see in this video that in time king Zogu were discriminatory laws against Serbs. And especially discriminatory laws were in time of rule of Communist Enver Hoxa. Serbs and Montenegrins are prohibited ethnicity and violated human rights.

On the other side Albanians in Serbia and SFR Yugoslavia had all the rights, language, culture, religion, education in Albanian, all. And not only that. Republic of Serbia and Yugoslav federation gave heavily to develop areas which are inhabited by Albanians. As Serbian province, Serbia and SFR Yugoslavia invested in AP Kosovo over 18 billion dollars from 1961 to 1990. In time: 1956-1990 average rate of industrial growth in AP Kosovo was the 6.3%. From 1952 to 1990 GDP in AP Kosovo grew 5.4 times.

Compare, Serbs and Montenegrins in Albania suffered extinction. Albanians in Serbia had big progress. And Albanians from Albania came to live in Serbian province Kosovo because it was a better life and greater rights. Marko94 is objective and thanks for this educational video.

Don't confuse comunism albanian with comunism jugoslavia.
Comunism albanian is like comunism of north korea.
Everything that was in the Yugoslavian communism was buried.
Tito did not bring about "wars" between peoples.
When the killings were hiding this news.
Milosevic did see only the news that made them comfortable.
Milosevic has never been stupid (as they thought the Americans).
He knew that the weak point of the peoples of Eastern Europe is extreme nationalism.
Just see the match Croatia vs Serbia years 90'.
What I mean is that they all did the massacres.
The other ethnic groups (Albanian, Croatian and etc.) made ​​her secretly and small massacres.
The truth about Eastern peoples is that "there has never been a friendship or brotherhood".
The extreme nationalism will divide forever.
we Italians are not nationalists and we are objective.

 

[Marko94]

That was not a joke. Albanians were never discriminated in Serbia. I won't go into other matters since this is thread about Kosovo and you're probably Albanian, so lets stick to that one.

1. I need an explanation how could one minority, that was allegedly treated as Kosovo Albanians claim they were, managed to rise from 500.000 to 1.500.000?

2. Find me a region in which population rose 3x in a 40 years period?


View attachment 6018

I have just a question for you.
In the time of this zog and comunism you can't escape from albania.......this number about albanian is fake.
I say to you my origin albanian.
In the 1944 the family of my father was kicked by nazist german from kosovo.
The family of my father decided to take refuge in albania (in a region called mirdita, i do not know if is write right).In 1991, communism ends and my father goes to italy to look for work (remember that from 1920 until 1991 nobody can exit from albania).

 

[Ike]

Great, so we won. Nasty little devils, we managed to trick you and the all the Yugoslavia, nc nc nc. Hm when I come to think of it, we played the game quite well don't you think? And we managed without having and army, money, media machinery, Milosevic, Arkan, ....wow, we are going to take over the world with this smart! Thank you for all these compliments Ike. I have started to admire myself and all other Kosovar-Albaninas, we are clever, man!:cool-v:

Why would you raise yourself to the level of your employers? It's their achievement, not yours.You were just a pawns in someone else's game. And don't forget that - as they have used you against us, they will just as easily push you away, once they don't need you.

 

[Ike]

@Marko
What are you trying to say? That all censuses were wrong?
Go read for yourself. There are data from medieval Serbia, Turks, Austrians, etc. All is transparent. In 14th century there was almost no Albanians on Kosovo, only 3 settlements. Serb were majority until 17th century. Situation got out of control in period 1961-1981, when number of Albanians on Kosovo doubled. How did it happen? Was it the enormous birth rate, like nowhere in the world, or was it combined with Albanian immigrant, it doesn't really matter. What matters is, that it doesn't give someone right to pester and terrorize other people, especially when they're being nice to you.

 

[Marko94]

Don't turn this around. We both know that Albanians started that. What is so surprising that one country demands that official language and writing system be used in it's institutions? Why did your doctors pretended they know not Serbian language? Can Albanian doctor work in Germany and speak only Albanian? Can he molest German patients by telling them to learn Albanian, and them to come back?!

You purposely molested non-Albanian population on Kosovo, making the living conditions impossible, and in the end you've cause the war. It's your war, you were told to provoke it, backed up by the same countries that provided you Great Albania during WW2. Don't play innocent now.

The end of yugoslavia there had to be already after ww2.
Do you know why there has not been? Why a communist called tito decided to cover it up.
Whatever was in the time of Tito hid the news.
A Croatian killed a Serb? Tito hid the news.
An Albanian killed a Serb? Tito hid the news.
A Serb killed an Albanian? Tito hid the news.
After the war about indipendence of croatia and slovenia, the great powers (usa, italy, germany and others) have made ​​a deal with Milosevic so that there were no more wars.
If the great powers wanted to divide Yugoslavia could do it too in 1991.

 

[Ike]

I agree. It should have happened in 1945. but it was not possible. If it was up to Serbs, they'd probably take over the territories where they lived, and leave others part of Yugoslavia aside. What would happen then? Red Army would descent through parts of NDH down to Adriatic, and that was unacceptable to Britain. That's why they backed up Tito all the time, and that's why Yugoslavia was never a part of Warshaw pact.

When Tito died 1980. the plans for dividing Yugoslavia started to become reality. Albanians were the first to claim the parts of Yugoslavia. And it finally happened in 1991. After extensive preparations US and Germany managed to start a war here.