Society LGBT society in Europe, you attitude?

[Ike]

I am a homosexual I had a partner for the last 14 years and we dont eat excrement and have respectable jobs. I find your remarks very offensive and do you have any particular reason for spewing all this hate? what is your agenda?!!!

There is no hate. It is just decisiveness to call things what they are and stick to the proper terminology.

Why the hell would even consider that eating excrements has anything to do with gays?! That was a parallel for my slightly closed mind friend LeBrok. You know - when you say that "if you drop an apple it falls down, and if you drop scissors they fall down. If you can eat an apple, that doesn't mean that you should try to eat scissors just on the basis of the previos parameter that they share."

He has a general dislike for anything not resembling the world of his youth. His flag says Yugoslavia, it denotes super conservatism and romanticizing the past. I'm not sure about Yugoslavia in particular, but usually communist regimes denied existence of homosexuality in their countries, only a product of sick and rotting western world, or admitted existence but made it an antisocial and criminal activity. He grew up in such homophobic climate and as super conservative is incapable of accepting any changes

My God, you talk like society was born 100 years ago, and that before that we all lived in caves, and had no knowledge of anything. We know everything about homosexuality for millenniums. It is not my fault that Western nation denied it for decades and feel bad for molesting all that gay people, and are now super-compensating for that.

Yugoslavia was not a homophobic state. Society treated homosexuality exactly as it should be - as a qualitative sexual disorder. And no gay people suffered any legal consequences just for being gay.

And just because "in 1974. Martin Kafka writes, 'Sexual disorders once considered paraphilias (e.g., homosexuality) are now regarded as variants of normal sexuality.'" that doesn't make sexual disorders normal.

 

[FBS]

Yugoslavia was not a homophobic state. Society treated homosexuality exactly as it should be - as a qualitative sexual disorder. And no gay people suffered any legal consequences just for being gay.

You are kidding right? There were "no homos" in YU, no one dared to come out as gay, we were totally oblivious to it. There were only hush-hush talking, and that was all. Many were forced into marriages just to cover up, because of the pressure of the society. And it is still difficult to be gay in ex-YU countries.

 

[Maleth]

What test? Who set the rules? The need for the test is only for the ones who think that activity is normal and are aiming to prove that consecutive practice will produce normal results. I don't care about the outcome of the test. I'm saying that those activities are abnormal despite the results of any tests. Why? Because it's just disgusting. Fore details see example below, and I'm certain you too would come out with many more similar disgusting, immoral or 'plain wrong' examples.




Is this the correct terminology you are referring to Ike? No hate you say? I guess you think that having blue yes or red hair is abnormal too with the correct terminology. Were do you get your education from exactly?

 

[Maleth]

You are kidding right? There were "no homos" in YU, no one dared to come out as gay, we were totally oblivious to it. There were only hush-hush talking, and that was all. Many were forced into marriages just to cover up, because of the pressure of the society. And it is still difficult to be gay in ex-YU countries.

Spot on FBS the same pattern happens in many countries due to bullying and intimidation and sheer ignorance and all the persecution it brings with it.

 

[LeBrok]

slightly closed mind friend LeBrok. You know

Lol, I'll take it as a complement.

If you can eat an apple, that doesn't mean that you should try to eat scissors just on the basis of the previos parameter that they share."

Exactly. We know by experience of others and many hospitalisations (science) that eating sharp metal objects is not good for us. There is not even one positive example of benefit to human health of eating scissors. Now shouldn't same measure of positive and negative outcomes apply to gay marriage? You shouldn't rely on your opinion, traditions and emotions when it comes to such complicated dilemma, should you?

My God, you talk like society was born 100 years ago, and that before that we all lived in caves, and had no knowledge of anything.

When you compare scientific progress, of last 100 years, we didn't know much, especially in medical field. Freud was still popular and so was dr. Kellogg.

We know everything about homosexuality for millenniums.

And we knew that best marriage is arranged, that drinking mercury cures maladies, that we can save heretic's sole in bonfire, sickness comes from curses and voodoo, you talk to ghosts through psychics, earth is a center of universe, etc, etc Don't you think we might have been wrong about homosexuality too?

Yugoslavia was not a homophobic state. Society treated homosexuality exactly as it should be - as a qualitative sexual disorder. And no gay people suffered any legal consequences just for being gay.

lol, I was wrong about criminal code for gays in Yugoslavia, they were locked in Asylums and Institutes.

And just because "in 1974. Martin Kafka writes, 'Sexual disorders once considered paraphilias (e.g., homosexuality) are now regarded as variants of normal sexuality.'" that doesn't make sexual disorders normal.

Neither it makes a person with third nipple normal. But it doesn't mean it will ruin your society, and neither gay marriage. Once again you judge this issue with nothing more than your feelings and prejudiced, and it is not enough for an intelligent decision.

 

[Ike]

You are kidding right? There were "no homos" in YU, no one dared to come out as gay, we were totally oblivious to it. There were only hush-hush talking, and that was all. Many were forced into marriages just to cover up, because of the pressure of the society. And it is still difficult to be gay in ex-YU countries.

Yeah, rural parts of Balkans lived by Customary law, and still do. You know that exactly on the example of blood feuds which were common among Albanians or Montenegrins. It is also obvious on the example of cousin marriage. Even though state law allowed marriage among 3rd cousins, Church law didn't allow marriage of 4th cousins, but Custom law didn't allow intermarriage up to 6-9th cousins depending on the area. (note that I'm not sure anymore about exact numbers in the last sentence.)

On the other hand, there were gay people living in the cities, and everyone knew they are gay and they suffered no consequences for that. Some of them were known since the late 1970-ies. Simply nobody minded their business. Once foreign countries interfered in Yugoslavian internal business and started pressuring "to give more right to the people" first incidents started to happen. People who already had all the rights they needed felt free to disturb others with their own "ideas" - and that's when we had outburst of all kinds of "-isms" which eventually resulted in the worse situation than before. Current position of gays is I suppose worse then in Yugoslavia.

Is this the correct terminology you are referring to Ike? No hate you say? I guess you think that having blue yes or red hair is abnormal too with the correct terminology. Were do you get your education from exactly?

Yes, we could even talk about hair color in similar terms, but let's not spread around subjects too much. It seems like you have a problem accepting of who you are. You just don't want to accept that you have strange sexual affiliations, and you're asking the society to bend the definitions so that they could fit reality in which you would be "by the book". Get over it dude. Accept that what you're doing is immoral and disgusting and get on with your life. Why do you need anybodies approval for that?

People usually don't hate you for what you are, but are starting to hate you because you're being aggressive in your intention to suck the approval out of them

Exactly. We know by experience of others and many hospitalisations (science) that eating sharp metal objects is not good for us. There is not even one positive example of benefit to human health of eating scissors. Now shouldn't same measure of positive and negative outcomes apply to gay marriage? You shouldn't rely on your opinion, traditions and emotions when it comes to such complicated dilemma, should you?

It is the opinion of all the competent people without political agenda or paycheck from NGO

When you compare scientific progress, of last 100 years, we didn't know much, especially in medical field. Freud was still popular and so was dr. Kellogg.

And we knew that best marriage is arranged, that drinking mercury cures maladies, that we can save heretic's sole in bonfire, sickness comes from curses and voodoo, you talk to ghosts through psychics, earth is a center of universe, etc, etc Don't you think we might have been wrong about homosexuality too?

lol, I was wrong about criminal code for gays in Yugoslavia, they were locked in Asylums and Institutes.

1. You can name 1000 things that people were wrong about in the history. I can name 1000 that they were right for. That leads nowhere.
2. Off course they were not. Name some.

Neither it makes a person with third nipple normal. But it doesn't mean it will ruin your society, and neither gay marriage.

I agree. Off course it won't by itself. I'm worried about cognitive discrepancy that will arise in the mind of human while trying to compare the external reality with false terminology that's being asserted.

Once again you judge this issue with nothing more than your feelings and prejudiced, and it is not enough for an intelligent decision.

Well, on the other hand, I think that you do that. I think that you feel sorry for the gays, and want to comply and patronize them by doing something that would make 'em feel better about themselves.

 

[Maleth]

It seems like you have a problem accepting of who you are. You just don't want to accept that you have strange sexual affiliations, and you're asking the society to bend the definitions so that they could fit reality in which you would be "by the book". Get over it dude. Accept that what you're doing is immoral and disgusting and get on with your life. Why do you need anybodies approval for that?

Please don't worry about me Ike, I truly have no problem and not aware of asking for any approval in my few posts I managed to post here, before you started insulting me. Im very comfortable with who I am and surrounded by people who are comfortable about themselves whether they are hetero or homo. I guess I am lucky, unlike those that live in repressive environments. What a shame. Have you ever read the study that 'Homophobes might be hidden homosexuals?' its not allowing me to post you the link but you can make a quick search.

 

[Wilhelm]

I don't understand all of this homosexual propaganda and obsession that is going on in Western countries, it's total madness. I don't care about a persona orientation is not my business, but don't shove to our faces all of this bullshit, because first of all homosexuality is a minority, don't even make 10% of the population, and second thing, it's not a normal thing as they want to make it, it's a deviation of what should the normal sexuality (meant for reproduction and mating), it's politically incorret to say this, but it's the truth.

 

[LeBrok]

Please don't worry about me Ike, I truly have no problem and not aware of asking for any approval in my few posts I managed to post here, before you started insulting me. Im very comfortable with who I am and surrounded by people who are comfortable about themselves whether they are hetero or homo. I guess I am lucky, unlike those that live in repressive environments. What a shame. Have you ever read the study that 'Homophobes might be hidden homosexuals?' its not allowing me to post you the link but you can make a quick search.

There might be something to it. There was a case or two in US parlament few years ago, and many more around the globe, of most oposed to homesexuality and gay marriage politicians turned to by gay. Especially gays, who are also religious devotees, who fight the "demon of homosexualty" inside them all their life, are the most dangerous and against homosexuality.

 

[LeBrok]

I don't understand all of this homosexual propaganda and obsession that is going on in Western countries, it's total madness. I don't care about a persona orientation is not my business, but don't shove to our faces all of this bullshit, because first of all homosexuality is a minority, don't even make 10% of the population, and second thing, it's not a normal thing as they want to make it, it's a deviation of what should the normal sexuality (meant for reproduction and mating), it's politically incorret to say this, but it's the truth.

You don't suppose we, the society, should hide everything that you don't like and makes you angry?

 

[FBS]

In average there is a higher percentage of men being gay rather then women. I am afraid there are much more gay men then they dare to admit, whatever the circumstances or the reasons may be. Why would there be otherwise so much women haters? Why did church have to declare Maria Magdalena as a whore, or why would Eve had to be declared as of a lesser value and a problem maker, why celibacy, or why do Arab women have to be covered. I am all for gay freedom, and hopefully these women haters will finally be free to admit that they are actually gay. Same goes for women who are man haters.

 

[Ike]

Please don't worry about me Ike, I truly have no problem and not aware of asking for any approval in my few posts I managed to post here, before you started insulting me. Im very comfortable with who I am and surrounded by people who are comfortable about themselves whether they are hetero or homo. I guess I am lucky, unlike those that live in repressive environments. What a shame. Have you ever read the study that 'Homophobes might be hidden homosexuals?' its not allowing me to post you the link but you can make a quick search.

As same, don't worry about me. If I turn gay one day, I'll have no problem admitting myself what I'm doing. I won't ask the society to make every one of my sexual fantasy socially acceptable. Mmm... "Young naked men, submerged in strawberry gravy - lovers association" here I come

 

[Maleth]

As same, don't worry about me. If I turn gay one day, I'll have no problem admitting myself what I'm doing. I won't ask the society to make every one of my sexual fantasy socially acceptable. Mmm... "Young naked men, submerged in strawberry gravy - lovers association" here I come

sure sure you wont be the first. Double and secret lives are quite common so I will not be worried about you..... You buy the strawberry gravy? or is it something you do at home?

 

[Maleth]

I don't understand all of this homosexual propaganda and obsession that is going on in Western countries, it's total madness. I don't care about a persona orientation is not my business, but don't shove to our faces all of this bullshit, because first of all homosexuality is a minority, don't even make 10% of the population, and second thing, it's not a normal thing as they want to make it, it's a deviation of what should the normal sexuality (meant for reproduction and mating), it's politically incorrect to say this, but it's the truth.

I don't think that, for example anyone shoved this thread in your face......who opened it, did not have propaganda in mind - rather the contrary....at the same time you were interested enough to comment and you have every right to. So you think others don't?

 

[Maleth]

There might be something to it. There was a case or two in US parlament few years ago, and many more around the globe, of most oposed to homesexuality and gay marriage politicians turned to by gay. Especially gays, who are also religious devotees, who fight the "demon of homosexualty" inside them all their life, are the most dangerous and against homosexuality.

I know a couple of first hand cases locally too. And I wont delve into the religious devotees issue!!!..............

 

[Ike]

sure sure you wont be the first. Double and secret lives are quite common so I will not be worried about you..... You buy the strawberry gravy? or is it something you do at home?

If all were allowed to do what they like in public, a war would broke up in a month. If you can't be civilized and keep your peculiarities and habits for yourself, it means that you're not ready for a moder society, in which people are carrying about each other and are ready to make a compromise sometimes.

As for the gravy, it is something Balkan people like to do themselves but I hear that EU has very strong laws against homemade stuff.

 

[Maleth]

If all were allowed to do what they like in public, a war would broke up in a month. If you can't be civilized and keep your peculiarities and habits for yourself, it means that you're not ready for a moder society, in which people are carrying about each other and are ready to make a compromise sometimes.

As for the gravy, it is something Balkan people like to do themselves but I hear that EU has very strong laws against homemade stuff.

(just an example) Denmark had civil union since 1989 and well on the forefront of civil liberties. Its one of the richest countries in the world and has been voted happiest country late last year. Do you have an idea when the war is going to break out and would become a modern country please? In the meantime I will do my best to figure out what you mean by peculiarities and civilization and do what I a want to do in public (!)

We cook lots of good delicious stuff at home. I have Balkan friends and I know they do too

 

[LeBrok]

(just an example) Denmark had civil union since 1989 and well on the forefront of civil liberties. Its one of the richest countries in the world and has been voted happiest country late last year. Do you have an idea when the war is going to break out and would become a modern country please? In the meantime I will do my best to figure out what you mean by peculiarities and civilization and do what I a want to do in public (!)

We cook lots of good delicious stuff at home. I have Balkan friends and I know they do too

An excellent example! 25 years into gay liberties and equalization and no smallest sign of societal collapse in Denmark. On other hands countries of strongest "traditional family" values not doing so well.
What does that mean Ike?

 

[Maleth]

An excellent example! 25 years into gay liberties and equalization and no smallest sign of societal collapse in Denmark. On other hands countries of strongest "traditional family" values not doing so well.
What does that mean Ike?

Canada is a fine example too

 

[Ike]

(just an example) Denmark had civil union since 1989 and well on the forefront of civil liberties. Its one of the richest countries in the world and has been voted happiest country late last year. Do you have an idea when the war is going to break out and would become a modern country please? In the meantime I will do my best to figure out what you mean by peculiarities and civilization and do what I a want to do in public (!

Well, you ain't gonna do it here.
Yeah gay~ cheerfull, happy I get it. Go get happy all that you want. We don't measure happiness here with the amount of money and all around gayness.

An excellent example! 25 years into gay liberties and equalization and no smallest sign of societal collapse in Denmark. On other hands countries of strongest "traditional family" values not doing so well.
What does that mean Ike?

It means exactly what I've said near the end of my post #45.

And once again - your measurement of "doing well" does not equal other people's measurement of doing well. As I've told you I don't care for God or traditional values. This has got nothing to do with any of that.