MyTrueAncestry MyTrueAncestry - closest modern countries to ancient ethnicities

Salento said:
Are you sure?

XECJyCF.jpg
Click to expand...


and in eurogenes k15 ancient ? :thinking:
you know that my true ancestery use the eurogenes k15 tool :smile:
anyway could be differences between apulian and calabrian and Sicilian groups :thinking:( from historical reason MESSAPIANS and others etc....)
 
kingjohn said:
and in eurogenes k15 ancient ? :thinking:
you know that my true ancestery use the eurogenes k15 tool :smile:
anyway could be differences between apulian and calabrian and Sicilian groups :thinking:( from historical reason MESSAPIANS and others etc....)
Click to expand...

... Apologies for going off topic

iX1IVgh.gif
 
thanks salento :good_job:
so i guess greek islanders are the one that cluster with the IA ARDEA outlier R850:thinking:


this is mine with k15 ancient ( which is my true ancestery tool )
Distance to:adam
6.51698550R56_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
6.87621989R117_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
7.11559555R136_Imperial_Era_Marcellino_&_Pietro
7.47608186R1548_Imperial_Era_Monterotondo
7.49120818R49_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis
7.62566063R54_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
7.80150626R35_Late_Antiquity_Celio
8.09692534R53_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
8.37169636R58_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
8.45464961R60_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
8.47731679R835_Imperial_Era_Civitanova_Marche
8.57275918R64_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
8.62985516R436_Imperial_Era_Palestrina
8.81258191R970_Medieval_Era_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti
9.09290933R1290_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
9.10539950R1544_Imperial_Era_Necropolis_of_Monte_Agnese
9.10875952R114_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
9.33809938R47_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis
9.95745449R50_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis
9.97565537R65_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
10.00501874R107_Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi
10.13111544R131_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
10.18690336R59_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
10.19545487R1549_Imperial_Era_Monterotondo
10.21143966R30_Late_Antiquity_Mausole_di_Augusto


p.s
i have R56 villa magana and than after him i am closest to late antiquity romans ( which some were hellenic/ greek autosomally)
 
Maciamo said:
Iron Age Gaul

- English : 8.2
Click to expand...
Thracians

- North Italians : 8.7
Click to expand...
Maciamo, my mother got a distance of 6.212 to a Gaul (I don't know which Gaul though, if there're more than one). She's full Venetian in ancestry (I consider some far Western Pordenonesi as "Venetians" too).
And my father got a distance of 7.724 to a Thracian. He's basically 75% Venetian (with irrelevant traces from Friuli) and 25% Eastern Lombard in ancestry.
 
Regio X said:
Maciamo, my mother got a distance of 6.212 to a Gaul (I don't know which Gaul though, if there're more than one). She's full Venetian in ancestry (I consider some far Western Pordenonesi as "Venetians" too).
And my father got a distance of 7.724 to a Thracian. He's basically 75% Venetian (with irrelevant traces from Friuli) and 25% Eastern Lombard in ancestry.
Click to expand...

Could you send me the exact result as MTA tends to mislabel a lot of samples. I have seen North Italian matches to "Cisalpine Gauls" who in fact dated from the Dark Ages.
 
Maciamo said:
Could you send me the exact result as MTA tends to mislabel a lot of samples. I have seen North Italian matches to "Cisalpine Gauls" who in fact dated from the Dark Ages.
Click to expand...
Ok. I'll try to upload her results again later, to see what we get.
 
Maciamo said:
Could you send me the exact result as MTA tends to mislabel a lot of samples. I have seen North Italian matches to "Cisalpine Gauls" who in fact dated from the Dark Ages.
Click to expand...
Yes, mother's Gaul seems to be from Dark Ages, because:

Ancient Pops

Gaul + Gallo-Roman (2.015)​
Gallo-Roman + Frank (2.015)​
Gaul + Illyrian (3.125)​
Roman + Frank (3.665)​
Gaul + Roman (4.57)​
Gaul (6.215)​
Illyrian (7.467)​
Gallo-Roman (8.631)​
Frank (10.0)​
Roman (11.24)


​
Matching Samples:

1. Gallo-Roman Lombard Grave (580 AD) ..... 5.792 -
Top
99 %
​
match vs all users

2. [Hidden] - upgrade to Footman+ ..... 6.215 -
Top
99 %​
match vs all users
​

...

Top 10 Samples by era:

...
Dark Ages
1. Gallo-Roman Lombard Grave (580 AD) ..... 5.792 -
Top
99 %​
match vs all users


2. [Hidden] - upgrade to Footman+ ..... 6.215 -
Top
99 %​
match vs all users
​



So we can deduce that this Gaul with distance of 6.215 is from Dark Ages.

​
 
Number of modern samples so far.

>10 samples

Belgium, France, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Spain

5 to 10 samples

Albania, England

< 5 samples

Austria, Bulgaria, Belarus, Croatia, Czechia, Denmark, Finland, Greece, Ireland, Lithuania, Macedonia, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Scotland, Slovenia, Sweden, Switzerland, Ukraine, Wales

0 samples

Estonia, Latvia, Montenegro, Slovakia
 
Last edited:
A very interesting project. I'll gladly share my my results, although I have scored only once under 10. I am Croat.

[h=3]Early Bronze Age[/h]
5. Western Pomerania Unetice (2000 BC) ..... 12.91


12. [Hidden] - upgrade to Footman+ ..... 16.11

[h=3]Late Bronze Age[/h]
18. [Hidden] - upgrade to Footman+ ..... 17.68


[h=3]Iron Age[/h]
1. Scythian Ukraine (600 BC) ..... 8.915


3. Western-Scythian Black Sea (290 BC) ..... 11.16


7. Scythian Ukraine (600 BC) ..... 14.5


11. Scythian Moldova (300 BC) ..... 16.05


14. [Hidden] - upgrade to Footman+ ..... 16.91


19. Western-Scythian Outlier Black Sea (260 BC) ..... 17.77


[h=3]Roman Age[/h]
6. [Hidden] - upgrade to Footman+ ..... 17.08


20. [Hidden] - upgrade to Footman+ ..... 17.92



[h=3]Dark Ages[/h]
2. [Hidden] - upgrade to Footman+ ..... 11.13


4. [Hidden] - upgrade to Footman+ ..... 11.46


10. [Hidden] - upgrade to Footman+ ..... 15.47


13. Early Slav Avar Grave (590 AD) ..... 16.25


17. Cisalpine Gaul (590 AD) ..... 17.42





[h=3]Medieval Age[/h]

6. [Hidden] - upgrade to Footman+ ..... 13.86


8. [Hidden] - upgrade to Footman+ ..... 14.54


9. Hungarian Conqueror Karos III (900 AD) ..... 15.06


15. Baltic Medieval Denmark (1250 AD) ..... 16.95
 
I'm 75% Czech and 25% German, but all of my closest samples are associated with Czechia, either historically or through closest modern population. However, I'll also try to convince my 100% Czech father to take a DNA test as well to confirm. I also added my top 99% samples as some of those I highly doubt you will find an individual under the genetic distance of 10.
The Lugii, Pre-Slav Poland, Bell Beaker Haunstetten Germany 1873 BC (date is important), Bronze Age Vatya Hungary (1750 BC), Oxford Infirmiary (1790 AD), and Boii (obviously) samples have Boii associated with one of their closest ancient civilizations. In case you don't know, the name Bohemia came from the name Boiohaemum (first mentioned by Tacitus), with Boi coming from the Boii and haemum being latinized German from the old German word haimaz or home, to create the name meaning 'Boii home'. The name was based on German because at this time the Marcomanni, Quadi, and Lugii already had a confederation set up in the region.

[FONT=-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Segoe UI, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, Arial, Noto Sans, sans-serif, Apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol, Noto Color Emoji]Top 99%&Under 10[/FONT]
[FONT=-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Segoe UI, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, Arial, Noto Sans, sans-serif, Apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol, Noto Color Emoji]1. Germanic Medieval Denmark (1250 AD) [/FONT]..... 9.202 - G939 - [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Closest Modern:
1. Czech (15.15)
2. Southwest_Finnish (15.46)
3. North_German (16.62)
4. Austrian (16.64)
2. Lugii Tribe Iron Age Maslomecz (300 AD) ..... 9.63 - PCA103_Mas16 - [FONT=&quot]
Closest Modern:
1. Austrian (18.12)
2. East_German (18.87)
3. Czech (19.54)
4. Croatian (21.38)

Top 99%
Pre-Slav Medieval Poland (950 AD) ..... 10.79 - PCA124_Niemcza10 -
Closest Modern:
1. Austrian (17.52)
2. Czech (17.54)
3. East_German (18.00)
4. Polish (18.29)
15. Medieval Nabburg Germany (1350 AD) ..... 12.49 - NAB004A
1. North_German (16.69)
2. Czech (16.69)
3. Southwest_Finnish (16.99)
4. Irish (18.49)
39. Bell Beaker Haunstetten Germany (1873 BC) ..... 14.27 - UNTA58_153 - [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
1. Southwest_French (11.81)
2. Spanish_Cantabria (15.15)
3. Spanish_Aragon (16.12)
4. French_Basque (16.26)
40. Iron Age Ingria (130 AD) ..... 14.54 - VIII8 -
1. Polish (19.00)
2. Czech (19.38)
3. South_Polish (19.83)
4. Russian_Smolensk (19.98)
46. Bronze Age Vatya Hungary (1750 BC) ..... 14.87 - Rise479 - [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
1. Polish (15.15)
2. South_Polish (15.39)
3. Russian_Smolensk (15.98)
4. Croatian (16.61)
52. Iron Age Black Sea (600 BC) ..... 15.5 - MJ14 -
1. Polish (21.95)
2. Russian_Smolensk (21.99)
3. Czech (22.07)
4. Belorussian (22.37)
66. Iron Age Boii Tribe Singen am Hohentwiel (597 BC) ..... 16.5 - MX265 - [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
1. Southwest_French (15.01)
2. Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon (16.90)
3. Spanish_Cataluna (17.22)
4. Spanish_Valencia (17.39)
68. Celtic-Sarmatian Outlier (300 BC) ..... 16.72 - MJ39 - [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
1. Czech (20.69)
2. Austrian (21.70)
3. Russian_Smolensk (22.92)
4. Polish (22.98)
79. Medieval Age Livonia (1200 AD) ..... 17.21 - OLS03 - [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
1. Czech (22.78)
2. Austrian (23.22)
3. Southwest_Finnish (24.16)
4. Polish (25.02)
81. Oxford Infirmiary (1790 AD) ..... 17.27 - CS01 - [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
1. Austrian (23.97)
2. East_German (24.57)
3. Czech (25.12)
4. Croatian (26.21)
110. Livonian Medieval Denmark (1250 AD) ..... 18.35 - G911 -
1. Czech (26.42)
2. Austrian (26.84)
3. Russian_Smolensk (28.51)
4. Polish (28.63)
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[/FONT]
 
Maciamo said:
[/CENTER]

Thanks. Since your ancestry is from French/Belgian Flanders I am going to list you among Belgians. In fact your data fits completely within the Belgian range.
Click to expand...

OK ;)
But still no Belgae ! :wary2:
 
flupke said:
OK ;)
But still no Belgae ! :wary2:
Click to expand...

All the Belgae tested were from Alsace. Your closest match is this one:

Iron Age Colmar France (340 BC) ..... 8.102
 
[FONT=&quot]Hi, I'm from Belgium (as all of my ancestors up to the Belgian revolution of 1830):

Here are my results:

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Neolithic Age[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]8. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][Hidden] - upgrade to Footman+ ..... 8.386 -
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]12. [Hidden] - upgrade to Footman+ ..... 9.143 -

[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Early Bronze Age[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
1. Bronze Age Jinonice Prague Czech (2122 BC) ..... 5.274 -
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]2. [Hidden] - upgrade to Footman+ ..... 5.991
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]20. [Hidden] - upgrade to Footman+ ..... 9.786 -
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Roman Age[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]6. [Hidden] - upgrade to Footman+ ..... 7.636 -
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]13. Germanic Tribe Crypta Balbi (500 AD) ..... 9.146[/FONT][FONT=&quot] -
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]14. [Hidden] - upgrade to Footman+ ..... 9.283 -

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Dark Ages[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
3. Germanic Lombard Szolad (590 AD) ..... 6.245 -
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]4. [Hidden] - upgrade to Footman+ ..... 6.422 -
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]5. Visigoth Frankish Girona (550 AD) ..... 6.906[/FONT][FONT=&quot] -
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]7. Visigoth Germanic Girona (550 AD) ..... 7.691[/FONT][FONT=&quot] -
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]9. Nordic Lombard (590 AD) ..... 8.658[/FONT][FONT=&quot] -
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]15. Swiss Germanic (580 AD) ..... 9.365[/FONT][FONT=&quot] - ?
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]18. [Hidden] - upgrade to Footman+ ..... 9.582 -
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]19. Saxon Hinxton (720 AD) ..... 9.743[/FONT][FONT=&quot] -

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Medieval Age[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]10. [Hidden] - upgrade to Footman+ ..... 8.775 -

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11. Franco Medieval Villa Magna Italy (1215 AD) ..... 9.032[/FONT][FONT=&quot] -
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]16. [Hidden] - upgrade to Footman+ ..... 9.437 -
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Early Modern Period[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]17. Colonial American Pennsylvania (1700 AD) ..... 9.545[/FONT][FONT=&quot] -[/FONT]
 
Another interesting find. Samples from the Urnfield culture in Hungary are closest to modern Kosovars and Albanians. The Urnfield culture existed during the turbulent period of the Bronze Age collapse in the East Mediterranean with the invasions of the Sea Peoples. It owes its name to the practice of cremation that replaced the Indo-European tradition of tumulus/kurgan burial. The Urnfield culture superimposed itself other Late Bronze Age cultures such as Hallstatt around the Alps and Proto-Villanova in Italy, and as such can be seen as a foreign element mixing with Indo-European cultures. It is conceivable that this is the period when Y-haplogroup E-V13 and J2b-L283 (both peaking around Kosovo and Albania today) spread around central Europe - though not necessarily from Kosovo/Albania.

Urnfield culture (Hungary, 1300-750 BCE)

- Kosovars : 7.7
- Tosk Albanians : 7.9
- Tuscans : 8.4
- North Italians : 9.7
- Bulgarians : 9.9

4b6ad463f262b1546d7fd3bc375bfac9.png
 
Another major surprise of all is that the Vandals only cluster around modern British and Irish people and not with any modern Germanic country. Their closest match are the Irish, which suggests a predominantly Celtic ancestry. Yet the Vandals are usually considered to be an East Germanic tribe. Could it be that they were actually Germanised Celt? They originated in southern Poland and it has been hypothesised that they were part of the Lugii tribe, whose DNA also turns out closest to Welsh and Irish people.
 
Maciamo said:
Another interesting find. Samples from the Urnfield culture in Hungary are closest to modern Kosovars and Albanians. The Urnfield culture existed during the turbulent period of the Bronze Age collapse in the East Mediterranean with the invasions of the Sea Peoples. It owes its name to the practice of cremation that replaced the Indo-European tradition of tumulus/kurgan burial. The Urnfield culture superimposed itself other Late Bronze Age cultures such as Hallstatt around the Alps and Proto-Villanova in Italy, and as such can be seen as a foreign element mixing with Indo-European cultures. It is conceivable that this is the period when Y-haplogroup E-V13 and J2b-L283 (both peaking around Kosovo and Albania today) spread around central Europe - though not necessarily from Kosovo/Albania.

Urnfield culture (Hungary, 1300-750 BCE)

- Kosovars : 7.7
- Tosk Albanians : 7.9
- Tuscans : 8.4
- North Italians : 9.7
- Bulgarians : 9.9

4b6ad463f262b1546d7fd3bc375bfac9.png
Click to expand...

Your findings about Kosovars being close to Hungarian urnfield culture has also historical merit. Ancient Greeks wrote that Illyrians came from central Europe, which is exactly where Hungary is. And DNA is proving just that. The only thing I disagree is describing L 283 and E-v13 as foreign element to Indo-European culture. The presence of L283 in Dalmatia dates 3600 yrs which makes it very European. You also contradict another posting of yours where you say that E v13 and L283 are Indo-European haplogroups for the reason of their spread. They are present even in the areas where G is missing, and this haplogroup homogenous spread around Europe can be explained only through this two haplogroups being part of Indo-European people.
 
DuPidh said:
Your findings about Kosovars being close to Hungarian urnfield culture has also historical merit. Ancient Greeks wrote that Illyrians came from central Europe, which is exactly where Hungary is. And DNA is proving just that. The only thing I disagree is describing L 283 and E-v13 as foreign element to Indo-European culture. The presence of L283 in Dalmatia dates 3600 yrs which makes it very European. You also contradict another posting of yours where you say that E v13 and L283 are Indo-European haplogroups for the reason of their spread. They are present even in the areas where G is missing, and this haplogroup homogenous spread around Europe can be explained only through this two haplogroups being part of Indo-European people.
Click to expand...

I think that you are confusing European and Indo-European. E-V13 and J2b-L283 have not been found in the Yamna culture, nor in the Corded Ware, Unetice or among Bell Beaker samples that had Steppe DNA. These were all R1b, I2 and R1a.

There is no doubt that E-V13 appeared in Europe, most probably somewhere between Germany and western Ukraine, apparently around 2800 BCE based on the age estimate for its formation. But that was in Late Neolithic or Chalcolithic Europe and as a lineage descending from the farmers of Old Europe. It is only between 2000 BCE and 1000 BCE, during the Middle to Late Bronze Age (hence possibly the Urnfield culture) that it started a major expansion, diversifying into many clades.

J2b-L283 is even older, but also underwent a major expansion as J-Z597>Z2507 from 2200 BCE and again from 1600 BCE. If I remember correctly, the oldest attested J2b-L283 in Europe was in Croatia c. 1600 BCE.

Therefore, it is possible that at least part of the story regarding the expansion of both haplogroups around Europe took place during the Urnfield expansion, joining the Late Bronze Age Indo-European cultures in Europe and therefore being present in subsequent Iron Age cultures.
 
Maciamo said:
Another major surprise of all is that the Vandals only cluster around modern British and Irish people and not with any modern Germanic country. Their closest match are the Irish, which suggests a predominantly Celtic ancestry. Yet the Vandals are usually considered to be an East Germanic tribe. Could it be that they were actually Germanised Celt? They originated in southern Poland and it has been hypothesised that they were part of the Lugii tribe, whose DNA also turns out closest to Welsh and Irish people.
Click to expand...

I showed you my genetic distance relative to the Lugii sample and I have absolutely 0% Vandal.
Closest Ancient of Lugii:
Boii + Ostrogoth (9.418)
Viking Danish + Boii (9.637)
Scythian + Boii (11.18)
Belgae + Boii (11.5)
Belgae + Scythian (12.25)
Boii (13.32)
Ostrogoth (14.81)
Belgae (15.76)
Viking Danish (16.42)
Scythian (16.63)
Closest Samples to the Lugii:
Pre-Slav Medieval Poland (950 AD) (6.582)
Oxford Infirmiary (1790 AD) (9.581)
Iron Age Ingria (130 AD) (10.47)
Viking St. Brice Massacre Oxford (1002 AD) (10.71)
Iron Age Trundholm Denmark (670 BC) (11.34)
I can't comment on similar samples or populations to the Vandals because, as mentioned before, I do not match with any of them.

p.s. I always thought that E-V13 may have initially spread with the Vinca culture or Pre-Vinca culture as it has a high affinity for Kosovo and Serbia, a E1b1bsomthing haplogroup was found from a Linear Potter Culture sight (can't find the link yet), and the distribution makes it look like it spread up the Danube, just like the earliest farmers would have done as they needed the fertile loess. However, yes, it may have also did some spreading during the Urnfield.



 
I think I have seen a vandal in a sample but now I don't remember, I'm going to look.
 
Don't mean to distract from the intention of this thread, but a slight edit to my last post.
I did not realize that there were multiple Lugii samples. So, the 3 Lugii samples that I know of now are PCA103, PCA100, and PCA89. Don't know if there are more. I was able to run a 3D PCA for Lugii PCA89 even though I don't have it unlocked, and it appeared that some of the closer samples were Medieval Piedmont (CL57), North Central Lombard (CL63), and SZ38 (Bronze Age Hungary?). PCA100 seamed to be the most common match as it is now gets the closest matches in western Europe. On this sample you can get a genetic distance of 9.462 and still only be in the top 82% or get 11.53 and only be in the top 69%, relative to PCA103's closest modern population distance of 18.12. I do not match with PC100, but it seemed like the people that do have a lot of Lombard matches. At this period in time (300AD) the Lombards were located directly to the west of the Lugii. I don't know why PCA103 appears to be the only Lugii sample associated with the Boii and PreSlav Poland that I know of and is way off track from the other ones. However, my best guesses or hypothesis are that either PCA103 was a Marcomanni or Quadi that joined the Lugii or that PCA89 and PCA100 were actually Lombards living with the Lugii. Either that or the Lugii tribe had a tremendous amount of genetic diversity in its ranks. Please correct me if I am wrong as I don't have PCA100 or PCA89 unlocked.
Thank You,
 
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