MyTrueAncestry Mytrueancestry.com

[Salento]

I have 1663 shared snaps with R1 sample

what do you have

I would like to "think/hope" her father ( R1 ) was a T1a ydna ................

I don’t get a Deep Dive with her anymore, but I get tons of SNPs on GedMatch Q-Matching:
(from 2019)

 

[Salento]

yfull dated SZ1 to 1360 ybp, ...is that about 590 AD ???

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z2123/

 

[Duarte]

yfull dated SZ1 to 1360 ybp, ...is that about 590 AD ???

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z2123/

Mysteries. The trunk of the yDNA R-Z2123 tree (upstream) has branches (downstream) in hungary, Russia, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Tajikistan , in China. Would SZ1 then be a medieval Avar, as the MTA claims and not an individual from the Bronze Age in Europe, as the study says?

 

[Salento]

Mysteries. The trunk of the yDNA R-Z2123 tree (upstream) has branches (downstream) in hungary, Russia, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Tajikistan , in China. Would SZ1 then be a medieval Avar, as the MTA claims and not an individual from the Bronze Age in Europe, as the study says?

Now we have more than one source indicating that SZ1 is not a Bronze Age sample,

... they must know something NEW that we don’t know

yfull dated the y RZ2123 line much earlier than the date assigned to SZ1, and that is his final clade (no subgroups for him), ... so that’s not the reason, I think.

 

[Duarte]

Now we have more than one source indicating that SZ1 is not a Bronze Age sample,

... they must know something NEW that we don’t know

yfull dated the y RZ2123 line much earlier than the date assigned to SZ1, and that is his final clade (no subgroups for him), ... so that’s not the reason, I think.

Has radiocarbon dating of SZ1 been done? Well, YFull is recognized as an excellent reference in dating the yDNA clades and subclades. “I'm going to ask the university students.” That's how we talk by here when we don't know how to answer a question, lol

 

[Salento]

@Duarte

... we should use our year of birth as year ZERO instead of ybp,
... ybd (years before Duarte)

 

[Duarte]

@Duarte

... we should use our year of birth as year ZERO instead of ybp,
... ybd (years before Duarte)

lmao

 

[Jovialis]

I just e-mailed the author of the paper, Carlos Eduardo G. Amorim, to verify if there was indeed a change to the SZ1 or not.

 

[Salento]

Thanks Jovialis

 

[Salento]

SZs deep dive

... ancient relatives:

 

[Bogomir]

I just e-mailed the author of the paper, Carlos Eduardo G. Amorim, to verify if there was indeed a change to the SZ1 or not.

Many thanks!

 

[Bogomir]

SZ1 has no Noth European ancestry(?)

I entered SZ1 as a kit and found these relations:

1. Central Roman 590 AD - Genetic Distance: 7.846 - SZ36 2. Central Roman 590 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.78 - SZ43 3. Central Roman 630 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.373 - CL36 ? 4. Protovillanovia Martinsicuro 930 BC - Genetic Distance: 10.17 - R1 5. Byzantine Roman Warrior 605 AD - Genetic Distance: 10.64 - NS3b 6. Tuscan Medieval Villa Magna Italy 905 AD - Genetic Distance: 10.74 - R60 7. Skeleton Lake Traveller - Hellenic 1805 AD - Genetic Distance: 10.93 - I3404 8. Late Roman Empire Crypta Balbi 500 AD - Genetic Distance: 12.33 - R107 9. Central Roman 590 AD - Genetic Distance: 12.33 - SZ32 ? 10. Roman Outlier Lombard Grave 590 AD - Genetic Distance: 12.37 - SZ37 I12649

11. Medieval Italy Abbadia SS Plague 1348 AD - Genetic Distance: 12.41 - BSS31 12. Roman Villa Tarragona 350 AD - Genetic Distance: 12.54 - I6491 13. Tivoli Palace Late Renaissance 1650 AD - Genetic Distance: 12.9 - R970 14. Gallo-Roman 590 AD - Genetic Distance: 12.96 - SZ28 ? 15. North Roman Warrior 590 AD - Genetic Distance: 13.1 - NS3c 16. Marseilles Plague Victim 1721 AD - Genetic Distance: 13.15 - OBS137 ? 17. Tuscan Medieval Cancelleria Basilica 1350 AD - Genetic Distance: 13.41 - R1290 18. Visigoth Mixed Slav Girona 550 AD - Genetic Distance: 13.45 - I12031 19. Central Roman 580 AD - Genetic Distance: 13.53 - CL121 20. Medieval Taifa of Valencia 1200 AD - Genetic Distance: 13.55 -

Deep Dive Breakdown:

1. Protovillanovia Martinsicuro 930 BC R1

Genetic Distance to SZ1: 10.17
mtDNA: U5a2b
Shared DNA: (Sample Quality: 94)
11 SNP chains (min. 60 SNPs) / 242.74 cM
Largest chain: 627 SNPs / 72.86 cM

2. Tivoli Palace Late Renaissance 1650 AD R969
Genetic Distance to SZ1: 15.07
mtDNA: U5bY-DNA: J2a1a1a2b2 (M67/PF5137/S51)
Shared DNA: (Sample Quality: 83)
3 SNP chains (min. 60 SNPs) / 74.79 cM
Largest chain: 576 SNPs / 47.7 cM

3. Oetzi 3300 BC Oetzi
Genetic Distance to SZ1: > 27
mtDNA: K1Y-DNA: G2a2a1a2a1a (L166)
Shared DNA: (Sample Quality: 77)
3 SNP chains (min. 60 SNPs) / 70.27 cM
Largest chain: 411 SNPs / 46.01 cM

4. Medieval San Lorenzo Foggia Italy 1150 AD VK534
Genetic Distance to SZ1: 15.09
mtDNA: H1Y-DNA: R1b1a1b1a1a2 (A433)
Shared DNA: (Sample Quality: 59)
4 SNP chains (min. 60 SNPs) / 61.73 cM
Largest chain: 196 SNPs / 34.21 cM

5. Central Roman San Ercolano 100 AD R117
Genetic Distance to SZ1: 15.5
mtDNA: T2bY-DNA: J2a (CTS1328/PF4951/Z2134)
Shared DNA: (Sample Quality: 54)
4 SNP chains (min. 60 SNPs) / 56.45 cM
Largest chain: 390 SNPs / 32.89 cM

6. Medieval San Lorenzo Foggia Italy 1240 AD VK535Genetic Distance to SZ1: 14.36
mtDNA: T1a5Y-DNA: R1b1a1b1b3a (CTS1843/Z2109)
Shared DNA: (Sample Quality: 62)
4 SNP chains (min. 60 SNPs) / 55.31 cM
Largest chain: 155 SNPs / 28.51 cM

7. Imperial Rome Centocelle 200 AD R51
Genetic Distance to SZ1: 17.43
mtDNA: U3b1
Shared DNA: (Sample Quality: 54)
4 SNP chains (min. 60 SNPs) / 52.7 cM
Largest chain: 232 SNPs / 32.26 cM

8. Relic French King Louis XVI 1793 AD LXVI
Genetic Distance to SZ1: 15.39
mtDNA: N1bY-DNA: G2a (P15/PF3112)
Shared DNA: (Sample Quality: 69)
4 SNP chains (min. 60 SNPs) / 39.42 cM
Largest chain: 205 SNPs / 11.74 cM

9. Tuscan Late Medieval Villa Magna Italy 1355 AD R54
Genetic Distance to SZ1: 15.69
mtDNA: H4a1Y-DNA: J2b2 (CTS2622/Z1827)
Shared DNA: (Sample Quality: 49)
3 SNP chains (min. 60 SNPs) / 37.82 cM
Largest chain: 276 SNPs / 22.67 cM

10. Tuscan Medieval Villa Magna Italy 905 AD R60
Genetic Distance to SZ1: 10.74
mtDNA: T2c1
Shared DNA: (Sample Quality: 77)
1 SNP chain (min. 60 SNPs) / 33.28 cM
Largest chain: 121 SNPs / 33.28 cM

11. Gallo-Roman Crypta Balbi 500 AD R109
Genetic Distance to SZ1: > 27?
mtDNA: H1ba
Shared DNA: (Sample Quality: 33)
3 SNP chains (min. 60 SNPs) / 31.25 cM
Largest chain: 148 SNPs / 19.96 cM

12. Imperial Rome Centocelle 282 AD R47
Genetic Distance to SZ1: 17.43
mtDNA: J1c1cY-DNA: G2a2b1 (M406/PF3285)
Shared DNA: (Sample Quality: 60)
3 SNP chains (min. 60 SNPs) / 25.76 cM
Largest chain: 302 SNPs / 9.75 cM

13. Late Roman Empire Crypta Balbi 500 AD R107
Genetic Distance to SZ1: 12.33
mtDNA: T2hY-DNA: E1b1b1a1b1a (L142.1)
Shared DNA: (Sample Quality: 69)
2 SNP chains (min. 60 SNPs) / 24.24 cM
Largest chain: 187 SNPs / 12.27 cM

14. Imperial Rome Cluana Ancona 165 AD R835
Genetic Distance to SZ1: 14.26
mtDNA: H2a5Y-DNA: J1a2b (CTS1141)
Shared DNA: (Sample Quality: 37)
4 SNP chains (min. 60 SNPs) / 23.3 cM
Largest chain: 201 SNPs / 7.43 cM

15. Hellenic Roman Marcellino 400 AD R136
Genetic Distance to SZ1: 15.24
mtDNA: T2d2Y-DNA: J2a1a1b2a1b1 (L70/PF5434/S287)
Shared DNA: (Sample Quality: 76)
2 SNP chains (min. 60 SNPs) / 21.91 cM
Largest chain: 274 SNPs / 11.07 cM

16. Tuscan Medieval Cancelleria Basilica 1350 AD R1290
Genetic Distance to SZ1: 13.41
mtDNA: H1c3a
Shared DNA: (Sample Quality: 57)
3 SNP chains (min. 60 SNPs) / 21.46 cM
Largest chain: 398 SNPs / 10.42 cM

17. Central Roman Celio Military Hospital 500 AD R35
Genetic Distance to SZ1: 16.51
mtDNA: H32
Shared DNA: (Sample Quality: 40)
3 SNP chains (min. 60 SNPs) / 17.81 cM
Largest chain: 127 SNPs / 6.9 cM

18. Early Bronze Age Mokrin Necropolis Serbia 1950 BC MOK10
Genetic Distance to SZ1: 15.79
Shared DNA: (Sample Quality: 47)
2 SNP chains (min. 60 SNPs) / 17.3 cM
Largest chain: 400 SNPs / 11.96 cM

19. Central Roman Mausoleo Augusto 500 AD R32
Genetic Distance to SZ1: 16.62
mtDNA: H2a1Y-DNA: I2a2a1 (FGC18124/Y5334)
Shared DNA: (Sample Quality: 42)
2 SNP chains (min. 60 SNPs) / 15.99 cM
Largest chain: 160 SNPs / 8.71 cM

20. Early Bronze Age Mokrin Necropolis Serbia 1950 BC MOK26
Genetic Distance to SZ1: 15.14
Shared DNA: (Sample Quality: 53)
2 SNP chains (min. 60 SNPs) / 15.08 cM
Largest chain: 129 SNPs / 8.63 cM
21. Hellenic Roman Monterotondo 165 AD R1548
Genetic Distance to SZ1: 17.23
mtDNA: H2aY-DNA: R1a1a1b2a2b1 (F2997)
Shared DNA: (Sample Quality: 50)
2 SNP chains (min. 60 SNPs) / 14.47 cM
Largest chain: 234 SNPs / 8.09 cM

22. Copper Age Szigetszentmiklos Hungary 2350 BC I7043
Genetic Distance to SZ1: 14.83
mtDNA: UncertainY-DNA: R1b1a1b1a1 (P310/PF6546/S129)
Shared DNA: (Sample Quality: 41)
2 SNP chains (min. 60 SNPs) / 12.36 cM
Largest chain: 147 SNPs / 6.22 cM

23. Gallo-Roman Lombard Grave 580 AD CL94
Genetic Distance to SZ1: 6.41
mtDNA: K1c1Y-DNA: R1b1a1b1a1a2f (DF99/S11987)
Shared DNA: (Sample Quality: 19)
3 SNP chains (min. 60 SNPs) / 10.98 cM
Largest chain: 263 SNPs / 4.0 cM

24. Central Roman 630 AD CL36
Genetic Distance to SZ1: 9.373
mtDNA: X2b ?
Shared DNA: (Sample Quality: 15)
4 SNP chains (min. 60 SNPs) / 10.21 cM
Largest chain: 189 SNPs / 4.5 cM

 

[torzio]

many are still saying that SZ1 is bronze age

here is its markings

SZ1:
mtDNA: J1b
Y-DNA: R1a1a1b2a2a(Z2123)


Some say because its R1a , then it cannot be bronze-age in the northern balkans .............

 

[Carlos]

So much to hear about the SZ that I say I'm going to see what it's all about if the King of Rome is going to come out here. I have marked in red the ones that are also in the outlier section

My results:

73. Gallo-Roman
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 13.94 - SZ28
188. Cisalpine Gaul
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 17.02 - SZ45
209. Medieval Tyrolian
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 17.45 - SZ18
246. Roman Outlier Lombard Grave
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 18.42 - SZ37 [FONT=&quot]
278. Frankish-Gallic Lombard Grave
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 19.22 - SZ27
334. Central Roman
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 20.87 - SZ32
363. Frankish / Hungary
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 21.6 - SZ23
397. Central Roman
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 22.29 - SZ43
405. Frankish / Hungary
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 22.46 - SZ38
453. Avar Szolad Hungary[/FONT]
700 AD - Genetic Distance: 23.46 - SZ1
462. Central Roman
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 23.62 - SZ36
485. Germanic Lombard Szolad
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 23.91 - SZ3
494. Roman Outlier Lombard Grave
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 24.03 - SZ31

 

[Salento]

SZs SNPs

SZ1 46xx (... top that) :grin:

... bonus: Otzi

... with Ancient samples, SNPs number and cMs don’t determine Genetic Distance at all!

 

[Duarte]

These are my samples in Szólád and Collegno, as far as I can see at the current level of MTA.

2. Gallo-Roman Lombard Grave
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.629 - CL94
41. Gallo-Roman
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 12.34 - SZ28
87. Frankish-Gaul / Lombardy Italy
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 14.38 - CL47b
91. Medieval Piedmont
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 14.49 - CL57
98. Roman-Illyrian Lombard Grave
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 14.82 - CL23
160. Central Roman
630 AD - Genetic Distance: 16.93 - CL36
173. [Hidden Outlier] - upgrade to Olympus 17.24 - CL47

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[Duarte]

These are my samples in Szólád and Collegno, as far as I can see at the current level of MTA.

2. Gallo-Roman Lombard Grave
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.629 - CL94
41. Gallo-Roman
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 12.34 - SZ28
87. Frankish-Gaul / Lombardy Italy
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 14.38 - CL47b
91. Medieval Piedmont
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 14.49 - CL57
98. Roman-Illyrian Lombard Grave
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 14.82 - CL23
160. Central Roman
630 AD - Genetic Distance: 16.93 - CL36
173. [Hidden Outlier] - upgrade to Olympus 17.24 - CL47

 

[Carlos]

My Cl of these I do not have any of these samples in the outlier section

4. Gallo-Roman Lombard Grave
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.106 - CL94
20. Roman-Illyrian Lombard Grave
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 11.31 - CL23
55. Frankish-Gaul / Lombardy Italy
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 13.4 - CL47b
57. Medieval Piedmont
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 13.45 - CL57
204. Frankish-Gaul / Lombardy Italy
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 17.38 - CL47
230. Frankish Lombard
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 17.81 - CL49
237. North Central Lombard
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 17.94 - CL63
300. Central Roman
630 AD - Genetic Distance: 19.91 - CL36
302. Swiss Germanic
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 19.97 - CL102
326. Medieval Tyrolian
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 20.72 - CL53

 

[Bogomir]

Studying the SZ1 sample I encounter some challenges:

1. If I am not wrong: The older the known ancestor would be, more fragmented pieces would be spread in the living population. In the case of SZ1 in a lot of people (including mine) we have large chunks of DNA all together in the range from 150 to 300 cM. This is a level that is normal for compering living 2^nd cousins not one or three millennia old ones. How does it come?
2. In SZ1 we see that the genetic distance to the ancient samples is rather negatively correlated or not correlated with “Deep dive” results. What does it mean? Is this result from a different ancient population male and female match? Is “genetic distance” less important than “Deep dive”, because it is calculated from estimated sex chromosomes only?
MTA: “The Haplogroup Analytics feature aggregates the known haplogroups of all your ancient matching samples. This provides an estimation of your ancient family tree male and female lines - in this case all matching males will offer a Y-DNA haplogroup. The collective results are displayed and very often display one's own known haplogroups.”
3. SZ1 has no genetic relation to Langobards. Why is “kindred population” in Szolad marked with SZ1?

 

[Duarte]

For those who have interest in analyzing, see the link to paper (PDF format) and it’s attached figures:

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2018/02/20/268250.full.pdf