New map of haplogroup T

Maciamo said: "I didn't like it because it didn't distinguish between areas with less than 0.5%, 0.5 to 1% and 1 to 2%. That's an important distinction since T is pretty rare in Europe and rarely exceeds 5%" So why is the wiki one made by a demented person? I don't see why this Spanish poster has an issue with it. T is mostly in Africa now. Does that bother you? It was Asiatic and moved into Africa. Very little is in Europe as Maciamo pointed out, but the highest is in Africa. What is the issue there? Is being African a scourge now?? My brothers and father are T1.
 
Knovas seems like those Europeans who want to be special. At least you acknowledged that it was Africa where it all began. Princess points for you on that. You're not even a T so why does it matter what you think of this? Glad Maciamo has decency to be courteous and state that it is for resolving the European part alone. It is an Afrasian haplogroup and that is where it is mostly found. This is how people try to deny African people what belngs to them. They say Egypt is now "white" and erase our contributions. I am not surprised by Knovas or people like that. There is no such thing as "Black" or "White". This is myth. Even we know that. But then again, it was Asians and Caucasians who came up with it in the first place. A way to separate ¥ourselves from the roots. Sad. Guess YOU are the "dement", Knovas. You and those like you.
 
I have a copy of the Wikipedia's map discussed in this thread, and shows 22-23% of T in some areas of Austria and Eastern Germany. To my knowledge this has never been sampled, for this reason I said what I said. In short: it's false.

I don't know if the map has changed since the last time, but my opinion about T did it substantially. Anyways, I won't check Wikipedia for that issue, I prefer other kind of sources.

For the rest of your strange conclusions: no comments.
 
Knovas seems like those Europeans who want to be special. At least you acknowledged that it was Africa where it all began. Princess points for you on that. You're not even a T so why does it matter what you think of this? Glad Maciamo has decency to be courteous and state that it is for resolving the European part alone. It is an Afrasian haplogroup and that is where it is mostly found. This is how people try to deny African people what belngs to them. They say Egypt is now "white" and erase our contributions. I am not surprised by Knovas or people like that. There is no such thing as "Black" or "White". This is myth. Even we know that. But then again, it was Asians and Caucasians who came up with it in the first place. A way to separate ¥ourselves from the roots. Sad. Guess YOU are the "dement", Knovas. You and those like you.

Well, Egypt was certainly Caucasoid and King Tut's Y-DNA is R1b, which is the most popular haplogroup in Western Europe. Egypt was not "African" in the sense of "black African" or Negroid.

And we Caucasoids haven't been African for thousands of years. What's your point? That we came out of Africa so therefore we are Africans? My ancestors haven't been in Africa for six times more recorded human history. I think it's safe to say we aren't Africans.
 
Well T is south-west asian , like Q and L and G and J and R and many more of the modern group, except E which , correct me if I am wrong is originally african ( of the modern haplogroups) .

Somali's have 89% E and 10% T
According to Y chromosome studies by Sanchez et al. (2005) and Cruciani et al. (2004), the Somalis are paternally closely related to certain Ethiopian groups, particularly Cushitic speakers:[69][70]
"The data suggest that the male Somali population is a branch of the East African population − closely related to the Oromos in Ethiopia and North Kenya − with predominant E3b1 [now "E1b1b1"] cluster lineages... and that the Somali male population has approximately 15% Y chromosomes from Eurasia and approximately 5% from sub-Saharan Africa."[69]
Besides comprising the majority of the Y DNA in Somalis, the E1b1b1a (formerly E3b1a) haplogroup also makes up a significant proportion of the paternal DNA of Ethiopians, Sudanese, Egyptians, Berbers, North African Arabs, as well as many Mediterranean and Balkan Europeans.[70][71] The M78 subclade of E1b1b is found in about 77% of Somali males,[69] which, according to Cruciani et al. (2007), may represent the traces of an ancient migration into the Horn of Africa from Egypt/Libya.[72] After haplogroup E1b1b, the second most frequently occurring Y DNA haplogroup among Somalis is the Eurasian haplogroup T (M70),[73] which is found in slightly more than 10% of Somali males.

T is due to migration from asia to africa
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kevinborland/6243496848/
 
ISOGG update for T markers ( 4th in 4 years)

Here is thecurrent T tree at ISOGG updated as of yesterday.


T L445, L452, L455, L810, M184/Page34/USP9Y+3178, M272, Page129
• T* -
• T1 L206, L490, M193
• • T1* -
• • T1a M70/Page46, Page78
• • • T1a* -
• • • T1a1 L162/Page21, L299, L453, L454

• • • T1a2 L131
• • • • T1a2* -
• • • • T1a2a P322, P328
• • • • T1a2b L446



If you are L446 negative, then you could test for P322.


I have changed again


EDIT on above
http://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpT.html

one of my project guys might have given me different information

If Isogg is correct , then the Mendez papers of 2 years ago are obsolrtr as he mentions T1a2 as not having subclade L131
 
Hello, Northern European "T" here. Wikipedia sites in general are now very strongly moderated and so I hope that the "gaps" in the reference list in Wikipedia's T-site can be explained. I have written to the moderator(moderators?) asking for the sources of those areas that do not have a reference - lets see what they say, as there is a lot of interesting data, particularly in Germany, Northern Europe and Scandinavia.
 
Of what origin r u?
 
Hello, Northern European "T" here. Wikipedia sites in general are now very strongly moderated and so I hope that the "gaps" in the reference list in Wikipedia's T-site can be explained. I have written to the moderator(moderators?) asking for the sources of those areas that do not have a reference - lets see what they say, as there is a lot of interesting data, particularly in Germany, Northern Europe and Scandinavia.

Z710 ?...is that new

Which company have you tested for?

I am T with the following
M184+ , M193+, M272+, M70+, L131+, L446+, P327-
 
I think it's just downstream of Z709
 
Indeed, according to Geno 2 TZ-710 is L299 derived but not P77. Still waiting to hear from Wiki about those data sets which don't have references but the site does say that "the paternal haplogroup T-M70 varies between 3% and 24% of male lineages in Germany", and quotes The Genographic Project 2.0 2012. This seems to be backed up by the dataset for German Stilfs at least, with a figure of 23.5% (I. Pichler et al., "Genetic Structure in Contemporary South Tyrolean Isolated Populations Revealed by Analysis of Y-Chromosome, mtDNA, and Alu Polymorphisms," Human Biology, August 2006, v. 78, no. 4, pp. 441–464). The Eupedia density map only shows 1%. If the other Wiki sources prove valid then the Eupedia map may need to be updated, at least for this area. Will keep you posted.
 
Yes but...the Stilfs are an exception in Germany; what they meant us that he lowest frequency is near 3% and the highest region tested at 24%. Thing is Germany has like 1-3% hg T in reality; same for England, it just really isn't present there. Italians have exceptional amounts at 3-5% of the males on average in the entire nation. Sicily has an 18% high in the Sciacca region. Parts of Spain and Portugal have as high as 10% with 20% or higher only experienced in a few bizarre cities across Italy the island of Chios and near Crete/the Aegean islands as well.
 
That's for Europe anyways.
 
The MAXIMUM reported in any zone of Germany is 24%! The national levels are like.....2-4% lol, not even, same for England and all of Europe excluding the italian 3-5% "high" Sicily's 5-17% and ibiza's 14%.
 
Yes but...the Stilfs are an exception in Germany; what they meant us that he lowest frequency is near 3% and the highest region tested at 24%. Thing is Germany has like 1-3% hg T in reality; same for England, it just really isn't present there. Italians have exceptional amounts at 3-5% of the males on average in the entire nation. Sicily has an 18% high in the Sciacca region. Parts of Spain and Portugal have as high as 10% with 20% or higher only experienced in a few bizarre cities across Italy the island of Chios and near Crete/the Aegean islands as well.

Stilfs is in Italy, south-tirol. The ancient people there where raetic people (modern Ladins) who spoke raetian language and became Ladins once learning latin.

I believe he means, that the 3% to 24% indicates that subclade M70 of all of T in Germany is in that range. the other T subclades are different or branched further than m70.
 
Indeed, according to Geno 2 TZ-710 is L299 derived but not P77. Still waiting to hear from Wiki about those data sets which don't have references but the site does say that "the paternal haplogroup T-M70 varies between 3% and 24% of male lineages in Germany", and quotes The Genographic Project 2.0 2012. This seems to be backed up by the dataset for German Stilfs at least, with a figure of 23.5% (I. Pichler et al., "Genetic Structure in Contemporary South Tyrolean Isolated Populations Revealed by Analysis of Y-Chromosome, mtDNA, and Alu Polymorphisms," Human Biology, August 2006, v. 78, no. 4, pp. 441–464). The Eupedia density map only shows 1%. If the other Wiki sources prove valid then the Eupedia map may need to be updated, at least for this area. Will keep you posted.

stilfs is in Italy.

I read somewhere that there was a new marker as you described , but I thought it would be branded as T1a4, but then I also heard it would be T1a1a3
 
Stilfs is near the Italo/Germano/Austrian border regions you are correct. Seems that Iberia in a more secondary way; but Ibiza islands, western Sicily, parts of mainland Italy and the island of Chios off turkey plus certain Aegean islands + fractions of Crete certainly have europe's highest T frequencies with generally higher frequencies towards the east-central Mediterranean regions: all this within Europe.
 
It would seem that hg T finds it's highest hot bed concentration across south-west and central Iran. This stretches across Ilam, lorestan, khuzestan, Bakhtiari, yazd, fars, kerman; these southwest and central Iranian provinces have 10-13% hg T. Then 7% spread across much of Iraq with a 10% peak in the extreme south. From here hg T seems to initially radiate.
 
Thanks Adamo. I am still waiting to hear back from 2 of the administrators on the Wiki site about the missing sources for some of their data, but I have managed to make some progress on some of them myself.
1. Scandinavian data - Karlsson et al (2006) Eur.J.Hum.Genet. 14, 963-970.
We have: GOTLAND (2/40 = 5%), UPPSALA (1/55 = 2%), BLEKINGE (1/41 = 2%), VASTERBOTTEN (1/41 = 2%). This is based on the (reasonable) assumption that K*(xN,P) is all T & the contribution from any haplo L folks is small.
Earlier Jorgensen et al (2004) Hum. Genet. 115, 19-28 is where the Faroes and Danish data comes from: We find from their distribution map: FAROE ISLANDS (2/89 = 2%), DENMARK (3/62 = 5%). Also NORWAY (4/157 = 3%), ICELAND (2/181 = 1%), average for SWEDEN (9/110 = 8%), again based on that assumption. The results for Gotland and Sweden seem to reinforce the other data Wiki quotes for Malmo (1/29 = 3%) and Orebo (1/32 = 3%). Couldn't find the source of the Shetlands data but it does ties in with the Faroes.
2. The data showing very high levels in SOUTH GERMANY/BAVARIA looks genuine (4/17 = 24% - this extremely high level must be due to drift), from Pichler et al (2006) Human Biology, 441–464, and reinforces the data for Alsace (4/80 = 5%) and other data quoted in the region. I've not yet been able to find the source of Wiki's northern German data based on BERLIN (4/103 = 4%) or the HOLLAND (1/18 = 6%) and FLEMISH data (1/42 = 2% and 2/119 = 2%) but hope to hear from the moderators about that. I've been shown data from a Kurdistan led study showing significant levels of L299 in northern Europe (including Holland, Denmark and Lithuania) but that has not been published yet. And according to the Geno2 report I was given for L299 it describes significant levels also in Holland and England. So in all, the distribution map shown by Wiki seems reasonable. Our own subclade in England (based on the distributions of the surnames of folks we know who belong to our group) seem to follow an East to north west cline. In short, I think the Wiki map is OK, at least from a North European perspective.
Whatever, I think the otherwise excellent map on this page should be revised to take into proper account us Northerners.
To me, it seems from the evidence so far that the T's came into Europe via Anatolia, and one group headed through Greece and onto Germany and northwards to Scandinavia and Eastern Britain and northern isles, another group headed through Italy, Southern France (the proportions there seem overestimated) and Iberia. A further group headed from SW Asia northwards through the Crimea. Speculative at the moment but we await the full findings from Geno 2 with interest.
Of course I maybe just another old Northern European having a grumble!
 
2/3 of all T samples are L299 Fox : ) regardless of their global position ; L299+ is about 100% of Armenian, Lebanese and Syrian T samples, for example. In total though, only 10% of Armenians are T and 2-5% I believe of the other two countries.
 

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