New map of haplogroup T

[adamo]

I find it strange how the T marker peaks on the Ibiza islands (16%) southern Spanish city of Cadiz, westernmost Sicily, northern Corsica, Crete and the Aegean region, the island of Chios, parts of Italy; most of those places I just mentioned where Phoenician colonies at one time or another. Extremely rare and localized around ancient Phoenician sites; one might assume a guy like cristiano Ronaldo would have the T marker .

 

[The Desert Fox]

The old version from a few months ago had a much higher level of T in northern Europe. But after comibing all studies for every country, I noticed that the "hotspots" in some regions were simply due to sampling bias or the fact that people assumed that hg K in older studies was necessarily T, something that was disproved by newer studies. Overall there isn't a single North European country where T exceeds 1%, except Estonia, but I am confident that this is also a sampling bias and that later studies will also lower that percentage.

Over the years I have realised that the rarer a haplogroup is, the more important it is to have a large sample size to avoid sampling bias. For haplogroup T it is hard to trust data for any country if there is less than 1000 samples. Local peaks in tiny samples under 100 are not representative and indeed very misleading, which is why they should be ignored.

Studies published before 2010 (or some even after that) did not specifically test for T, but only for K, which may also includes L, N or actual K*. Therefore data from such studies should be taken with a pinch of salt and percentages of T always revised downward compared to K.

Thanks for this. Opinions vary. Professional population geneticists will take a minimum of 20 sample number. I think the Wikipedia site gives the most balanced view on T-184 and gives its full reference sources without making arbitrary selections of data. However this discussion seems largely irrelevant now. The most significant finding - from the 2015 Nature study led by David Reich's group (Haak et al, 2015) is the only ancient DNA sample with T1a found ..... & surprise, surprise, happens to be in the centre of Germany - the Karsdorf man (~5000BC).

 

[Sile]

Thanks for this. Opinions vary. Professional population geneticists will take a minimum of 20 sample number. I think the Wikipedia site gives the most balanced view on T-184 and gives its full reference sources without making arbitrary selections of data. However this discussion seems largely irrelevant now. The most significant finding - from the 2015 Nature study led by David Reich's group (Haak et al, 2015) is the only ancient DNA sample with T1a found ..... & surprise, surprise, happens to be in the centre of Germany - the Karsdorf man (~5000BC).

what do you think of this K-M9 marker .............in regards to L and T

LT (referring to the joint root of L and T, not the range L to T). Instead, we therefore prefer the more intuitive labels CDEF and BCDEF,respectively,as used in previous publications [Heinrich et al., 2009; Underhill and Kivisild, 2007; van Oven et al., 2011].
Within the large K-M9 clade, which encompasses haplogroups L, M, NO, P (including Q and R), S, and T, a deep bifurcation was revealed, with haplogroups M, NO, P, and S falling in one subclade, defined by marker M526 [Chiaroni et al., 2009], and haplogroups L and T falling in the other subclade, defined by marker P326 [Mendez et al., 2011]. The latter subclade logically being labeled LT [Mendezet al., 2011], we “downgraded” the K label to designate the other, M526-defined subclade, and used KLT for the unifying M9-defined clade, as proposed previously [van Oven et al., 2011].

 

[RobertColumbia]

Looks like T was successful among Neolithic farmers and rise of ancient Mediterranean civilizations. It is present in Egypt, Israel, Phoenician colonies, very strong in Greece and it's colonies.

Amazing is how it was cleaned up by Atlantic coast from Basque to Normandy and in Ireland. Most likely by some Celtic tribes.

Very interesting is high T signature in Estonia.

The elevated presence of T in Estonia is quite interesting. Do you suppose that it could have come there by sea? T is also common in many sea-accessible locations like Gibraltar, Sicily, Crete, Cyprus, and Tunisia. Is there any evidence of Phoenician settlements in Estonia?

 

[LeBrok]

The elevated presence of T in Estonia is quite interesting. Do you suppose that it could have come there by sea? T is also common in many sea-accessible locations like Gibraltar, Sicily, Crete, Cyprus, and Tunisia. Is there any evidence of Phoenician settlements in Estonia?

I wish I knew, I was commenting about the map of hg T.

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_T_Y-DNA.shtml

Might as well been a lost legion of Romans or Greeks, or indeed Phoenician, or it is very ancient since Neolithic from one successful farmer. We need to wait for many ancient results to figure this one out.

 

[Regio X]

The elevated presence of T in Estonia is quite interesting. Do you suppose that it could have come there by sea? T is also common in many sea-accessible locations like Gibraltar, Sicily, Crete, Cyprus, and Tunisia. Is there any evidence of Phoenician settlements in Estonia?

I read in Anthrogenica that L2-l595 highest frequency is found in Estonia, and that it matches the areas of T1a (with exceptions).

 

[RobertColumbia]

...Of course the map is only a rough approximation since frequencies can vary hugely from one study to another for rare haplogroups, and not all regions have reliable studies....

Thank you for mentioning this. Much of the DNA testing that is going on nowadays is self-selected, which is about the worst sampling bias you can have. Even without self-selection, you generally need a very large sample size to accurately measure rare traits. For example, if you grabbed five people at random off the street and asked them whether any of them had a doctoral degree in humanities (and if so, to prove it by showing a copy of their degree), the percentage that you are going to get is likely to be extremely divergent from the more accurate number you would probably get if you polled a thousand people. With these rare traits, minor disturbances in distribution are likely to get magnified. For example, polling random people on the campus of Penn State is likely to get you an overly high estimate of the number of doctorates in the state of Pennsylvania while polling random people at a Pennsylvania prison would likely underestimate of the number of doctorates in Pennsylvania.

 

[Sile]

The elevated presence of T in Estonia is quite interesting. Do you suppose that it could have come there by sea? T is also common in many sea-accessible locations like Gibraltar, Sicily, Crete, Cyprus, and Tunisia. Is there any evidence of Phoenician settlements in Estonia?

this below was one of the papers that placed 6.5% of T in Estonia
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1529-8817.2003.00119.x/full

 

[SomaLion]

Tut's hg was IMPLIED to be that based on a SCREENSHOT. Until the actual data is formally presented...... your strange conclusion deserves no real comment.

Well, Egypt was certainly Caucasoid and King Tut's Y-DNA is R1b, which is the most popular haplogroup in Western Europe. Egypt was not "African" in the sense of "black African" or Negroid.

And we Caucasoids haven't been African for thousands of years. What's your point? That we came out of Africa so therefore we are Africans? My ancestors haven't been in Africa for six times more recorded human history. I think it's safe to say we aren't Africans.

Spanish people are hardly Caucasoid. Keep shaking that tree, bub.

"Africa begins at the Pyrenees."

 

[Robotnick]

That Alsace-Lorraine region lighting up once again, as with Haplogroups J as well as R-Z56 (subclade of R1b-U152)

It was a big wine-growing region within the Roman Empire from what I understand. So Roman colonists as well as garrisoned legions (it being close to the frontier and all) seem to easily explain these haplogroups and their presence in that region.