No R1a in Bronze Age India, Iran, Anatolia, Greece & Italy, who were Indo-Europeans?!

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Shahmiri

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No R1a in Bronze Age India, Iran, Anatolia, Greece & Italy, who were Indo-Europeans?!

I think genetic science has already proved that R1a has nothing to do with original Indo-Europeans but it seems some people have a strange definition for "Indo-European people", the oldest known evidences for Indo-European cultures have been found in India, Iran, Anatolia, Greece and Italy where no R1a has been found from Bronze Age.
 
The Brahmin line is predominantly R1A-Z93 L-657.

Also,earliest IE culture have been found in the Eurasian Steppe.

Are you saying that Brahmins have non-Aryan origin?
 
IndicMan said:
The Brahmin line is predominantly R1A-Z93 L-657.
Also,earliest IE culture have been found in the Eurasian Steppe.
Are you saying that Brahmins have non-Aryan origin?
Click to expand...
You can find the answer of your questions here: http://indiafacts.org/interview-wit...ri-on-his-new-book-genetics-the-aryan-debate/

As you read R1a is found in much higher percentage in non-Aryan speakers like the Manipuri people of the east and non-Brahmin castes like Khatris (67%) and Gujarat Lohanas (60%).

Endogamous Zoroastrians in Tehran have no R1a (0%), do you believe they have non-Aryan origin?

In the Middle East R1a has the highest frequency among Shammar Arabs in Kuwait and Levites of Israel, are they pure Aryans?!
 
Not really.
West Bengal Brahmins have 70% R1A,Bihar Brahmins 63% R1A,UP Brahmins 65% and so on.

Manipuri people did have a hindu influence and might have easily come through Gangetic Brahmins,while Lohanas are likely to have influences from nearby East Iranians like Pashtuns.

There are hardly any Zoroastrians in Tehran,there are much more in Yazd and Kerman.
The Indian Zoroastrians,however,have high STEPPE DNA and high R1A too.

Jews are Matrilineal so do not put your bullshit here.


Shammar Bedouins have high influences from Iranians since Kuwait is much closer to Iran than Arabia.

And Talageri's theory had no genetic basis.
He always stresses linguistics but fails to answer genetics.
 
IndicMan said:
Not really.
West Bengal Brahmins have 70% R1A,Bihar Brahmins 63% R1A,UP Brahmins 65% and so on.
Manipuri people did have a hindu influence and might have easily come through Gangetic Brahmins,while Lohanas are likely to have influences from nearby East Iranians like Pashtuns.
There are hardly any Zoroastrians in Tehran,there are much more in Yazd and Kerman.
The Indian Zoroastrians,however,have high STEPPE DNA and high R1A too.
Jews are Matrilineal so do not put your bullshit here.
Shammar Bedouins have high influences from Iranians since Kuwait is much closer to Iran than Arabia.
And Talageri's theory had no genetic basis.
He always stresses linguistics but fails to answer genetics.
Click to expand...

The oldest known Aryans were those lived in Mitanni, Median and Persian lands, in the 6th century BC Darius the Great in his inscriptions called himself and his Persian nation Aryan, R1a has never been found in any ancient sample in Persia, modern Persians in Persia (Fars) province of Iran have 4% R1a.
As I see Dr. Niraj Rai and other great Indian geneticists also believe the theory of Aryan migration from the steppe is just a myth, Lazaridis says Aryans migrated from Mitanni lands in the west of Iran to India in the Iron Age but I believe Aryan culture has a longer history in India.
 
The oldest known Aryans are not Mittani at all since only the ruling classes were of Aryan Origin.
Medes and Persians were largely assimilated natives and neither were they the people of Avesta.

The East Iranians,or the real Avestans like Pashtuns,Sogdians,Bactrians etc,were very rich in R1A as well as Steppe Ancestry.

Again Niraj Rai was one of the authors of Narasimhan et al 2019 which helped in solidifying Steppe Hypothesis.
After Dr. Rai's first tweet,he also tweeted again saying that his findings DO NOT CONTRADICT the main academic consensus.

So he is just playing it safe since Steppe Migration Theory can have disastrous social and political consequences.

But if you are intelligent enough,you should take the hint. :)
 
IndicMan said:
The oldest known Aryans are not Mittani at all since only the ruling classes were of Aryan Origin.
Medes and Persians were largely assimilated natives and neither were they the people of Avesta.
The East Iranians,or the real Avestans like Pashtuns,Sogdians,Bactrians etc,were very rich in R1A as well as Steppe Ancestry.
Again Niraj Rai was one of the authors of Narasimhan et al 2019 which helped in solidifying Steppe Hypothesis.
After Dr. Rai's first tweet,he also tweeted again saying that his findings DO NOT CONTRADICT the main academic consensus.
So he is just playing it safe since Steppe Migration Theory can have disastrous social and political consequences.
But if you are intelligent enough,you should take the hint. :)
Click to expand...

Among several ancient samples in the South Asia, Narasimhan has just found one R1a in Pakistan which dates back to 300 BC, we know there were Aryans in the west of Iran from at least 1,700 BC and you say real Aryans were those who lived in the east of Iran from 300 BC?!
Narasimhan has actually proved that Steppe ancestry in India has nothing to do with Aryans, Dr. Niraj Rai has gethered more Ancient DNA evidences which prove Aryan migration from the Steppe is a myth.
 
The Narasimhan paper had many co-authors INCLUDING NIRAJ RAI.
So you are making your own case weaker.

If there were Aryans in West of Iran in 1700 BC does that mean that there were no Aryans in the East?
That is quite unique reasoning.
In fact,in Bronze Age,Aryans had conducted massive migrations everywhere.

You hardly seem to understand that there is AUTOSOMAL DNA too,of which 20% of Dvija DNA is traced to Sintashta Culture.

Moreover,R1A are of many types and even Slavs and Vikings have it.

Does that make them Aryan?

NO!

Only R1A-Z93 is the specific Aryan subclade and the oldest one is found in Eastern Europe.
 
IndicMan said:
The Narasimhan paper had many co-authors INCLUDING NIRAJ RAI.
So you are making your own case weaker.
If there were Aryans in West of Iran in 1700 BC does that mean that there were no Aryans in the East?
That is quite unique reasoning.
In fact,in Bronze Age,Aryans had conducted massive migrations everywhere.
You hardly seem to understand that there is AUTOSOMAL DNA too,of which 20% of Dvija DNA is traced to Sintashta Culture.
Moreover,R1A are of many types and even Slavs and Vikings have it.
Does that make them Aryan?
NO!
Only R1A-Z93 is the specific Aryan subclade and the oldest one is found in Eastern Europe.
Click to expand...

Now real Aryans were neither those who lived in the west of Iran (Mitanni), nor those who lived in the east of Iran but those who lived in Eastern Europe!! The fact is that R1a-Z93 has never been found in any ancient sample from Iran and India, so it didn't relate to Indo-Iranians (Aryans).
Forget old myths about Z93, genetic studies show it came to the South Asia hundreds after Bronze Age, whereas we know an Indo-Aryan culture came from the South Asia to the west of Iran in the Middle Bronze Age.
 
Shahmiri said:
I think genetic science has already proved that R1a has nothing to do with original Indo-Europeans but it seems some people have a strange definition for "Indo-European people", the oldest known evidences for Indo-European cultures have been found in India, Iran, Anatolia, Greece and Italy where no R1a has been found from Bronze Age.
Click to expand...

how much Indian bronze age Y-DNA do we have? From which sites?
 
Of course R1A-Z93 will never be found in older samples of Iran and India given that speakers of Indo-Iranian language originated in the Eurasian Steppe!
If you are implying that R1A-Z93 is not Aryan then you are implying that Brahmins are of an unknown line of fathers,which again means calls about 60-70% Brahmins of a suspicious non-aryan paternal line!
 
Also,do remember that if you are a Brahmin yourself,you are abusing your own paternal line!
By degrading R1A-Z93 and calling it non-aryan,you are calling YOUR OWN ANCESTORS UN-ARYAN,which is a huge sin in Vedic Tradition.
 
IndicMan said:
Of course R1A-Z93 will never be found in older samples of Iran and India given that speakers of Indo-Iranian language originated in the Eurasian Steppe!
If you are implying that R1A-Z93 is not Aryan then you are implying that Brahmins are of an unknown line of fathers,which again means calls about 60-70% Brahmins of a suspicious non-aryan paternal line!
Click to expand...

Do you mean Brahmins were some East Europeans who migrated to India in the Late Iron Age and adopted Indian culture? It is possible but we know ancient people who called themselves Aryan hundreds years earlier were Persians who had no R1a-Z93.
 
Yes.
It seems that they were indeed East European.

Brahmin as a caste was formed in India but there paternal ancestors were indeed Sintashta Steppe Herders.

And remember that only the Kings like Darius and Cyrus called themselves Aryan,not the common Persians.

And they likely had direct Steppe lineage,since the Aryans functioned through elite domination.
And Persians were not the oldest ones to call themselves Aryans.

The Vedic and Avestan People were!

And they are very rich in Steppe DNA and R1A-Z93.
 
IndicMan said:
Yes.
It seems that they were indeed East European.

Brahmin as a caste was formed in India but there paternal ancestors were indeed Sintashta Steppe Herders.

And remember that only the Kings like Darius and Cyrus called themselves Aryan,not the common Persians.

And they likely had direct Steppe lineage,since the Aryans functioned through elite domination.
And Persians were not the oldest ones to call themselves Aryans.

The Vedic and Avestan People were!

And they are very rich in Steppe DNA and R1A-Z93.
Click to expand...

If so, how to explain the oldest example of r1a in ancient dna from central asia being dated to 2132-1940 calbce (id i3770, narasimhan 2019). That one was found at the end of east Karzak. The sample is much older than west andronovo.
 
IndicMan said:
Yes.
It seems that they were indeed East European.
Brahmin as a caste was formed in India but there paternal ancestors were indeed Sintashta Steppe Herders.
And remember that only the Kings like Darius and Cyrus called themselves Aryan,not the common Persians.
And they likely had direct Steppe lineage,since the Aryans functioned through elite domination.
And Persians were not the oldest ones to call themselves Aryans.
The Vedic and Avestan People were!
And they are very rich in Steppe DNA and R1A-Z93.
Click to expand...



Common Persians called themselves Aryans. It is only in the Iranian branch of the IE family where Aryan has a clear notion of ethnic self-designation for every Iranian, commoner and/or elite.
 
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