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No R1a in Bronze Age India, Iran, Anatolia, Greece & Italy, who were Indo-Europeans?!

If Indo Scythians were born out when Scythian warriors took local wives and Scythians were R1A-Z93 Z124 not L657.

So how do their descendants have L657?
And Btw,Scythians never reached deeper than NW India but Brahmins in even Bihar,Bengal and South have L657 and Sintashta ancestry without any East Asian.

How?
 
IndicMan said:
If Indo Scythians were born out when Scythian warriors took local wives and Scythians were R1A-Z93 Z124 not L657.
So how do their descendants have L657?
And Btw,Scythians never reached deeper than NW India but Brahmins in even Bihar,Bengal and South have L657 and Sintashta ancestry without any East Asian.
How?
Click to expand...

Scythian people who migrated to India had R1a-Z94 and L657 is its subclade. Indo-Scythians and their descendants migrated to other parts of India too.
 
IndicMan said:
Then why do Brahmins have negligible East Asian unlike Scythians?
Click to expand...

Not all Scythians have East Asian.

sa5dUFF.jpg


https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/10/eaat4457
 
Shahmiri said:
So they were Scythians who migrated from East of Europe to India and created Indo-Scythian kingdom in the 2nd century BC.
Click to expand...

“the R1a haplogroup occurs at 99% frequency in males in individuals of the Western_Steppe_MLBA and Central_Steppe_MLBA. Further to the south, the R1a haplogroup is not observed in any of our sampled ancient DNA from Iran and Turan until after ~2000 BCE. Most notably, we observe R1a in 2 individuals from Late Bronze-Iron Age South Asia whose autosomal ancestry is typical of the SPGT (Swat Protohistoric Grave Type) genetic cluster, consistent with genome-wide estimates of Steppe pastoralist-related admixture into this group between 2000-1500 BCE. R1a makes up a significant fraction of the Y haplogroups in present-day day Iran, Turan and South Asia, showing that once it arrived in this region in the MLBA and afterward, it had a long term impact.”

Narasimhan et al. 2019, Supplementary material, p.319

“One of the most remarkable discoveries in the recent Narasimhan et al. 2018 preprint has to be the presence of what are essentially Eastern European migrant populations within the Inner Asian Mountain Corridor (IAMC) during the Middle to Late Bronze Age (MLBA). … Strikingly, most of these people cluster with Bronze Age Eastern Europeans, and even some Bronze Age Central Europeans. … Two of the MLBA IAMC individuals are from Kashkarchi in the Ferghana Valley, in what is now Uzbekistan, and basically on the doorstep of the Indian subcontinent. (…) the MLBA IAMC groups are rich in Y-haplogroup R1a-M417, and in particular its R1a-Z93 subclade, which is today an especially frequent marker in Indo-European-speaking South Asians. (…) Clearly, many populations in South Asia, particularly those speaking Indo-European languages, derive the bulk of their steppe-related ancestry from the peoples of the MLBA IAMC.”

Eurogenes 2018
 
Philjames100 said:
“the R1a haplogroup occurs at 99% frequency in males in individuals of the Western_Steppe_MLBA and Central_Steppe_MLBA. Further to the south, the R1a haplogroup is not observed in any of our sampled ancient DNA from Iran and Turan until after ~2000 BCE. Most notably, we observe R1a in 2 individuals from Late Bronze-Iron Age South Asia whose autosomal ancestry is typical of the SPGT (Swat Protohistoric Grave Type) genetic cluster, consistent with genome-wide estimates of Steppe pastoralist-related admixture into this group between 2000-1500 BCE. R1a makes up a significant fraction of the Y haplogroups in present-day day Iran, Turan and South Asia, showing that once it arrived in this region in the MLBA and afterward, it had a long term impact.”

Narasimhan et al. 2019, Supplementary material, p.319

“One of the most remarkable discoveries in the recent Narasimhan et al. 2018 preprint has to be the presence of what are essentially Eastern European migrant populations within the Inner Asian Mountain Corridor (IAMC) during the Middle to Late Bronze Age (MLBA). … Strikingly, most of these people cluster with Bronze Age Eastern Europeans, and even some Bronze Age Central Europeans. … Two of the MLBA IAMC individuals are from Kashkarchi in the Ferghana Valley, in what is now Uzbekistan, and basically on the doorstep of the Indian subcontinent. (…) the MLBA IAMC groups are rich in Y-haplogroup R1a-M417, and in particular its R1a-Z93 subclade, which is today an especially frequent marker in Indo-European-speaking South Asians. (…) Clearly, many populations in South Asia, particularly those speaking Indo-European languages, derive the bulk of their steppe-related ancestry from the peoples of the MLBA IAMC.”

Eurogenes 2018
Click to expand...

Yes, Scythians lived in the Steppe and they migrated to north of India and northwest of Iran, for this region R1a has a high frequency in these regions but in Persia (Fars) province of Iran where ancient Persians lived R1a has a very low frequency.
 
Shahmiri said:
Yes, Scythians lived in the Steppe and they migrated to north of India and northwest of Iran, for this region R1a has a high frequency in these regions but in Persia (Fars) province of Iran where ancient Persians lived R1a has a very low frequency.
Click to expand...

These are bronze age samples, not scythians.
 
Shahmiri said:
I see just one R1a from Swat in Pakistan which dates back to about 300 BC, what are Bronze Age samples?
Click to expand...

4ydeTMJ.png



"we observe R1a in 2 individuals from Late Bronze-Iron Age South Asia whose autosomal ancestry is typical of the SPGT (Swat Protohistoric Grave Type) genetic cluster, consistent with genome-wide estimates of Steppe pastoralist-related admixture into this group between 2000-1500 BCE.”

Narasimhan et al. 2019, Supplementary material, p.319


“One of the most remarkable discoveries in the recent Narasimhan et al. 2018 preprint has to be the presence of what are essentially Eastern European migrant populations within the Inner Asian Mountain Corridor (IAMC) during the Middle to Late Bronze Age (MLBA). … Strikingly, most of these people cluster with Bronze Age Eastern Europeans, and even some Bronze Age Central Europeans. … Two of the MLBA IAMC individuals are from Kashkarchi in the Ferghana Valley, in what is now Uzbekistan, and basically on the doorstep of the Indian subcontinent. (…) the MLBA IAMC groups are rich in Y-haplogroup R1a-M417, and in particular its R1a-Z93 subclade, which is today an especially frequent marker in Indo-European-speaking South Asians.”

Eurogenes 2018
 
Persians also have much less Steppe DNA.
So,Persians will naturally have less R1A.
They are Iranized Elamites.

They call themselves Aryan only,but they have much less Aryan DNA.

You want to look at real Aryan DNA,then look at the Pamiris and Pashtuns.

Their R1A is very high,steppe is also very high and their customs are also very much conserved!
 
Philjames100 said:
4ydeTMJ.png



"we observe R1a in 2 individuals from Late Bronze-Iron Age South Asia whose autosomal ancestry is typical of the SPGT (Swat Protohistoric Grave Type) genetic cluster, consistent with genome-wide estimates of Steppe pastoralist-related admixture into this group between 2000-1500 BCE.”

Narasimhan et al. 2019, Supplementary material, p.319


“One of the most remarkable discoveries in the recent Narasimhan et al. 2018 preprint has to be the presence of what are essentially Eastern European migrant populations within the Inner Asian Mountain Corridor (IAMC) during the Middle to Late Bronze Age (MLBA). … Strikingly, most of these people cluster with Bronze Age Eastern Europeans, and even some Bronze Age Central Europeans. … Two of the MLBA IAMC individuals are from Kashkarchi in the Ferghana Valley, in what is now Uzbekistan, and basically on the doorstep of the Indian subcontinent. (…) the MLBA IAMC groups are rich in Y-haplogroup R1a-M417, and in particular its R1a-Z93 subclade, which is today an especially frequent marker in Indo-European-speaking South Asians.”

Eurogenes 2018
Click to expand...

Please talk about facts, not estimates, Late Bronze-Iron Age South Asia means about 300 BC, we also read from Narasimhan et al.: "We observe only 2 R1a Y chromosomes among the 44 SPGT males", it means even in the same ancient site in the same period about 4 percent of people had steppe ancestry, and it says: "Further to the south, the R1a haplogroup is not observed in any of our sampled ancient DNA".

This part of study shows that R1a in South Asia mostly relate to Scythian migration to North India in the later periods:

"Using previously reported calls on 1000 Genomes Project Y chromosomes (225), we observe that 62 out of the 221 South Asian males have an R1a Y chromosome corresponding to a ninety-five percent binomial confidence interval of 22-34% for Steppe MLBA ancestry on the entirely male line, which is significantly higher than the ninety-five percent confidence interval of 9-14% on the autosomes in the same set of individuals. These results shows the process of admixture of Central_Steppe_MLBA into the ancestors of the ANI was male-biased, and reveal that the directionality of sex bias was opposite to the pattern observed for the contribution of Central_Steppe_MLBA to SPGT."
 
IndicMan said:
Do those Scythians also have R1A-Z93 L-657?
Click to expand...
Did you know that R1a sample from South Asia which dates back to about 300 BC is R1a1a1b (R1a-Z645), not R1a1b2a2 (R1a-L657)? R1a-Z93 is a subclade of R1a-Z645.
 
Why are you referring back and again to 300 BC?
The arrival of Vedic People was dated to 2000-1500 BC.

Or are you implying that Vedas were written in 300 BC?
 
IndicMan said:
Why are you referring back and again to 300 BC?
The arrival of Vedic People was dated to 2000-1500 BC.
Or are you implying that Vedas were written in 300 BC?
Click to expand...

You just talk about a myth which has been fundamentally rejected by Indian geneticists, Dr. Niraj Rai clearly says "Massive migrations from Steppes to Bronze Age India is a myth", so Vedic people certainly didn't come from Steppes, those who came in 300 BC and later were other people like Scythians.
 
Scythians used Saddleback horse writing and not Horse Drawn Spoke-Wheeled Chariots.

Vedic People also practised Horse Husbandry for which India has NEVER been a fit climate.

Niraj Rai also said that his work will NOT contradict his earlier work,which is Narasimhan et al 2018.

The rest is just a word play on "massive" just to keep the plebians calm.

But what can be said to a person who is ashamed of his own glorious paternal line R1A-Z93 L-657?
 
Shahmiri said:
Please talk about facts, not estimates, Late Bronze-Iron Age South Asia means about 300 BC
Click to expand...

What is wrong with you?

1044-922 BC, SPGT Swat valley, R1a1a1b

824-792 BC, SPGT Swat valley, R1a1a1


Shahmiri said:
it says: "Further to the south, the R1a haplogroup is not observed in any of our sampled ancient DNA".
Click to expand...

Again, what is wrong with you? This is what it actually says:

“the R1a haplogroup occurs at 99% frequency in males in individuals of the Western_Steppe_MLBA and Central_Steppe_MLBA. Further to the south, the R1a haplogroup is not observed in any of our sampled ancient DNA from Iran and Turan until after ~2000 BCE. Most notably, we observe R1a in 2 individuals from Late Bronze-Iron Age South Asia whose autosomal ancestry is typical of the SPGT (Swat Protohistoric Grave Type) genetic cluster, consistent with genome-wide estimates of Steppe pastoralist-related admixture into this group between 2000-1500 BCE. R1a makes up a significant fraction of the Y haplogroups in present-day day Iran, Turan and South Asia, showing that once it arrived in this region in the MLBA and afterward, it had a long term impact.”

Narasimhan et al. 2019, Supplementary material, p.319
 
Philjames100 said:
What is wrong with you?

1044-922 BC, SPGT Swat valley, R1a1a1b

824-792 BC, SPGT Swat valley, R1a1a1
Click to expand...

What is your source? I see just one R1a here:

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/292581v1.supplementary-material


[TABLE="width: 5739"]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl73, width: 112"]I6891[/TD]
[TD="class: xl73, width: 138"]I6891[/TD]
[TD="class: xl73, width: 214"]DA-SIM0317-005, Grave 11[/TD]
[TD="class: xl73, width: 156"]petrous[/TD]
[TD="class: xl73, width: 249"]S6891.E1.L1[/TD]
[TD="class: xl73, width: 156"]1240K.capture[/TD]
[TD="class: xl73, width: 156"]n/a (no date)[/TD]
[TD="class: xl73, width: 156"]This study[/TD]
[TD="class: xl73, width: 289"]Luca Olivieri, Muhammad Zahir, Massimo Vidale, Roberto Micheli, Ayushi Nayak, Nicole Boivin[/TD]
[TD="class: xl73, width: 63"]2350[/TD]
[TD="class: xl73, width: 423"]500-300 BCE[/TD]
[TD="class: xl73, width: 313"]Saidu_Sharif_IA[/TD]
[TD="class: xl73, width: 156"]Saidu_Sharif_IA[/TD]
[TD="class: xl73, width: 156"]South Asia[/TD]
[TD="class: xl73, width: 55"]H[/TD]
[TD="class: xl73, width: 666"]Saidu Sharif, Swat Valley[/TD]
[TD="class: xl73, width: 156"]Pakistan[/TD]
[TD="class: xl73, width: 156"]34.75[/TD]
[TD="class: xl73, width: 112"]72.35[/TD]
[TD="class: xl73, width: 112"]M[/TD]
[TD="class: xl73, width: 112"]R5a2[/TD]
[TD="class: xl73, width: 112"]R1a1a1b[/TD]
[TD="class: xl73, width: 141"]3.842956[/TD]
[TD="class: xl73, width: 112"]870281[/TD]
[TD="class: xl73, width: 112"]All[/TD]
[TD="class: xl73, width: 225"]PASS (Xcontam=0.006)[/TD]
[TD="class: xl73, width: 142"]0.006341[/TD]
[TD="class: xl73, width: 142"]2.94820669[/TD]
[TD="class: xl73, width: 103"]half[/TD]
[TD="class: xl73, width: 112"]0.149[/TD]
[TD="class: xl73, width: 112"]R5a2[/TD]
[TD="class: xl73, width: 112"]0.996[/TD]
[TD="class: xl72, width: 104"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl72, width: 104"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Philjames100 said:
Again, what is wrong with you? This is what it actually says:

“the R1a haplogroup occurs at 99% frequency in males in individuals of the Western_Steppe_MLBA and Central_Steppe_MLBA. Further to the south, the R1a haplogroup is not observed in any of our sampled ancient DNA from Iran and Turan until after ~2000 BCE. Most notably, we observe R1a in 2 individuals from Late Bronze-Iron Age South Asia whose autosomal ancestry is typical of the SPGT (Swat Protohistoric Grave Type) genetic cluster, consistent with genome-wide estimates of Steppe pastoralist-related admixture into this group between 2000-1500 BCE. R1a makes up a significant fraction of the Y haplogroups in present-day day Iran, Turan and South Asia, showing that once it arrived in this region in the MLBA and afterward, it had a long term impact.”

Narasimhan et al. 2019, Supplementary material, p.319
Click to expand...

What do you mean? It also says "MLBA and afterward".
 
IndicMan said:
Scythians used Saddleback horse writing and not Horse Drawn Spoke-Wheeled Chariots.
Vedic People also practised Horse Husbandry for which India has NEVER been a fit climate.
Niraj Rai also said that his work will NOT contradict his earlier work,which is Narasimhan et al 2018.
The rest is just a word play on "massive" just to keep the plebians calm.
But what can be said to a person who is ashamed of his own glorious paternal line R1A-Z93 L-657?
Click to expand...

Of course Narasimhan et al 2018 says the same thing: "only 2 R1a Y chromosomes among the 44 SPGT males" whereas "R1a haplogroup occurring at 99% frequency in males in individuals of the Western_Steppe_MLBA and Central_Steppe_MLBA", so there was no massive migration from Steppes to Bronze Age India. Scythians were a great people and I'm proud of them.
 
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