No R1a in Bronze Age India, Iran, Anatolia, Greece & Italy, who were Indo-Europeans?!

IndicMan said:
Yes.
It seems that they were indeed East European.
Brahmin as a caste was formed in India but there paternal ancestors were indeed Sintashta Steppe Herders.
And remember that only the Kings like Darius and Cyrus called themselves Aryan,not the common Persians.
And they likely had direct Steppe lineage,since the Aryans functioned through elite domination.
And Persians were not the oldest ones to call themselves Aryans.
The Vedic and Avestan People were!
And they are very rich in Steppe DNA and R1A-Z93.
Click to expand...

So Aryans lived in Eastern Europe in 600 BC and two men from this region named Cyrus and Darius came and conquered the whole of Middle East, it seems to be a new myth which is much more unbelievable than previous ones.
 
That is exactly what happens when you try to create your own myths!

Aryans were in Eastern Europe around 3000 BCE and came to India and Iran from 2000-1000 BCE.
 
IndicMan said:
What subclade was that R1A?
Click to expand...
I have no idea. My Question is andronovo migration.

The oldest R1a in east steppe is related with andronovo culture. If they migrated from west, that R1a andronovo people should be backward again to ural mountain to create Alakul cuture, then went to east again for fëdorovo. After that, they came to migrate into south asia. Andronovo expansion is closely related with Tin Bronze which can be mined only in east Karzak and the Atai in steppe. Moreover archaeology paper was already published that east andronovo is much older than west, which was also quoted in every forum. And there is another hurdle of anthropology problem.
 
Do you know that Sintashta R1A-Z93 is older than the Andronovo one?
And that early Andronovo samples are nearly identical with Sintashta samples?
I do know that Andronovo Presence is quite old in Adunqiaolu,Xinjiang.
But where is it said that East Andronovo is older than the west?
Regarding Mining and Metallurgy,that was not that intensive earlier and Pastoralism and Stockbreeding was much more dominant.
 
IndicMan said:
Do you know that Sintashta R1A-Z93 is older than the Andronovo one?
And that early Andronovo samples are nearly identical with Sintashta samples?
I do know that Andronovo Presence is quite old in Adunqiaolu,Xinjiang.
But where is it said that East Andronovo is older than the west?
Regarding Mining and Metallurgy,that was not that intensive earlier and Pastoralism and Stockbreeding was much more dominant.
Click to expand...

1. I think you already read the paper:
“The new data from Adunqiaolu fit well into the emerging view of the eastern Andronovo as shown by Frachetti and Mar’yashev (2007), Hanks et al. (2007), Panyushkina et al. (2008) and Molodin et al. (2012a), and which is gradually gaining wider acceptance (e.g. Doumani 2014). The earlier chronologies for the putative eastward spread of the Andronovo are clearly challenged, although mechanisms behind the transmission of general cultural influences remain unclear. The revised chronology supports new hypotheses on the nature of cultural connections (Frachetti 2013: 292) that replace the earlier explanatory models of long distance migration supported by Kuz’mina (1986, 1994, 2007, 2008) and others (e.g. Tkacheva & Tkachev 2008). The idea of ‘waves’ of eastward movement creating new regionalised ‘cultural clusters’ has been refuted, partly through emerging radiocarbon sequences as discussed above, but also through evidence for long-term localised regional development, such as that documented by Frachetti in Semirech’ye from at least the mid third millennium cal BC (Frachetti 2008).”

2. Another hurdle is anthropology: andronovo proper is a pamir type which cannot be a product of CWC or sintashta. Simlply see tarim skull:
First one is yamna/ afanasievo protoeuropid type, 2nd one is andronovo proper type(very close to cromagnon, so paleo type), however, CWC/sintashta is genetically mixed with gracile farmer more.
http://racehist.blogspot.com/2010/08/two-old-papers-on-tarim-basin-mummies.html

“At the same time a more massive type of Europoid (the so-called Pamir-Fergana or Andronovo type), predom-inated across most of Andronovo territory in the Urals, across all of Kazakhstan, in Fergana, and as far as the Sayan-Altay and Minusinsk Basin”

3. Another problem is how arsenic bronze survived in the territory of tin bronze seima turbino witch entered europe and china.
Sintashta outlier WSHG R1a/Z2103/Q1a could be related with seima turbino, and maybe to that andronovo R1a.
seima-turbino-phenomenon-parpola.jpg


p.s
really in pain for posting, editing, replying in my account.
 
IndicMan said:
That is exactly what happens when you try to create your own myths!

Aryans were in Eastern Europe around 3000 BCE and came to India and Iran from 2000-1000 BCE.
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There is absolutely no genetic evidence which shows some people from Eastern Europe migrated to India and Iran from 2000-1000 BC.
 
The modern population of Europe can largely be modeled as a mixture of WHG (Western Hunter-Gatherer), EEF and WSH. In Europe, WSH ancestry peaks among Norwegians (ca. 50%), while in South Asia, it peaks among the Kalash people (ca. 50%) and Brahmins, according to Lazaridis et al. (2016). Narasimhan et al (2019), which employed a wider range of references in their ancestry models, found lower levels of steppe-derived ancestry among modern South Asians (e.g. ~30% among the Kalash).
 
Absolutely there is!
How do you think 20% Sintashta Gene comes in Autosomal DNA of Brahmins???
Dropped from Sky???
 
So you mean that Kushan men married Brahmin women and the Brahmin men willingly got their women married off and made Kushans the new Brahmins?
Because that is your implication!
And moreover,Kushans also had substantial East Asian ancestry in addition to Steppe DNA.
Then why do Brahmins have so high Steppe but negligible East Asian?😏
 
The Aryan said:
The modern population of Europe can largely be modeled as a mixture of WHG (Western Hunter-Gatherer), EEF and WSH. In Europe, WSH ancestry peaks among Norwegians (ca. 50%), while in South Asia, it peaks among the Kalash people (ca. 50%) and Brahmins, according to Lazaridis et al. (2016). Narasimhan et al (2019), which employed a wider range of references in their ancestry models, found lower levels of steppe-derived ancestry among modern South Asians (e.g. ~30% among the Kalash).
Click to expand...

If you mean Western Siberians HG's by WSH, it seems to me you are generous concerning Norwegians! Are you not confusing an old component ANE with more recent populations? Or am I confused here?
 
@Johen: interesting postes, Johen. You wrote or cited:

The oldest R1a in east steppe is related with andronovo culture. If they migrated from west, that R1a andronovo people should be backward again to ural mountain to create Alakul cuture, then went to east again for fëdorovo. After that, they came to migrate into south asia. Andronovo expansion is closely related with Tin Bronze which can be mined only in east Karzak and the Atai in steppe. Moreover archaeology paper was already published that east andronovo is much older than west, which was also quoted in every forum. And there is another hurdle of anthropology problem.
...
2. Another hurdle is anthropology: andronovo proper is a pamir type which cannot be a product of CWC or sintashta. Simlply see tarim skull:
First one is yamna/ afanasievo protoeuropid type, 2nd one is andronovo proper type(very close to cromagnon, so paleo type), however, CWC/sintashta is genetically mixed with gracile farmer more.

Concerning physical anthropology (I don't remember for an-auDNA) diverse moves have been stated in the Steppes north the Caspian and around, with some periods of reinforcement or weakening of partial 'east-asian'like components (among the WSHG mix), so the concept of westwards and eastwards interleaved moves doesn't seem impossible on the population level, even if I have no clue concerning the cultural traces (archeological changes) this could leave.
 
IndicMan said:
So you mean that Kushan men married Brahmin women and the Brahmin men willingly got their women married off and made Kushans the new Brahmins?
Because that is your implication!
And moreover,Kushans also had substantial East Asian ancestry in addition to Steppe DNA.
Then why do Brahmins have so high Steppe but negligible East Asian?������
Click to expand...

So they were Scythians who migrated from East of Europe to India and created Indo-Scythian kingdom in the 2nd century BC.

map-indo-scythian.jpg
 
Earlier you were saying Kushanas now suddenly you say Scythians?😏
Btw,earliest Scythians also have atleast 15-20 %East Asian ancestry not found in Brahmins.

Also,Brahmin Y haplogroup is R1A-Z93 L-657, while Scythian Y haplogroup is R1A-Z93 Z124.
 
IndicMan said:
Earlier you were saying Kushanas now suddenly you say Scythians?������
Btw,earliest Scythians also have atleast 15-20 %East Asian ancestry not found in Brahmins.
Also,Brahmin Y haplogroup is R1A-Z93 L-657, while Scythian Y haplogroup is R1A-Z93 Z124.
Click to expand...

There were different Scythian tribes, genetic studies show R1a came to India after Iron Age, so they were either Scythians or Kushans who brought it, some of Scythians tribes were actually aboriginal East Europeans who had adopted Scythian culture.
 
But those East European Scythian tribes never had the R1A-Z93 L-657 found in Brahmins!😏😏😏
 
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